Clarko and the Hawks alleged disgusting behaviour.

[skeptic]

This isn’t a criminal matter though - the reference to a VIS, is an example of something that is tailored for a specific purpose like how the report about the Hawthorn was addressing a specific question/criteria.

There’s a big difference between the report/investigation completed, it being published in the media /trial by media that occurred and whatever will happen next.

In fact that’s a good question. What does come next?

To the best of my knowledge, this isn’t a criminal matter so any misconduct issues are essentially a matter for the AFL to review and I guess they can do their own investigation if they feel it’s warranted

[amusingname]

This isn’t a criminal matter though - the reference to a VIS, is an example of something that is tailored for a specific purpose like how the report about the Hawthorn was addressing a specific question/criteria.

There’s a big difference between the report/investigation completed, it being published in the media /trial by media that occurred and whatever will happen next.

In fact that’s a good question. What does come next?

To the best of my knowledge, this isn’t a criminal matter so any misconduct issues are essentially a matter for the AFL to review and I guess they can do their own investigation if they feel it’s warranted

Correct, I used VIS as an example of something that has no input from the other party. The report was solely focused on indigenous player and family experiences, so why would the coaches be included in the report? They become relevant if there are issues raised in the report, which it seems they were going to when the AFL integrity did there investigation based on the report. The ABC catching wind of a story and doing his own work is what has muddied the process. It would be interesting to know if the AFL or hawthorn were going to make public statement about the report and any subsequent investigation if the ABC story hadn’t come out.

[Yorkeys]

Unfortunately Kennett and Clarkson have made serious enemies over the journey and the abstract concept of fair play is not going to stop some trying use the situation as payback.

If the indigenous community thinks all the condemnation and garment rendering over these several officials thinly reported behaviour is a reflection of true sympathy for the ex-players concerned that may be somewhat naïve.

Though what goes round - the ABC journo that presented the story as a clear case of racism might find Hawthorn has a strong influential coterie with long memories and vindictive natures. Gillon himself might find he is excluded from some high profile gatherings and the odd polo tourney.

Of course by now any honourable resolution is out of the question, its descending further into trench warfare, bottom covering, pious pronouncements of good intent and compensation claims. Worksafe for heavens sake, that bastion of workers rights, transparency and industrial goodness, so many historical claims dealt with expeditiously, hah, talk about throwing petrol on. We could knock up most of their final recommendations on here now in about 15 minutes, you can see the motherhood statements swelling from ground floor of the Crown.

A rule could be the report cannot be discussed or written about further using the words "if" or "alleged". Just the facts ma'am, just the facts.

[WellardSaint]

Yep, Yorkeys is correct.
Anybody in the media and footy industry who had a beef with Kennett, Clarko or Fagan, and who felt they never got justice, will wear a T-Shirt saying 'down with racism' (metaphorically) and join the pile-on, knowing they're gonna be a part of something huge.
Revenge is a dish best tasted cold, said The Bard

[No Holds Bard]

Anybody in the media and footy industry who had a beef with Kennett, Clarko or Fagan, and who felt they never got justice, will wear a T-Shirt saying 'down with racism' (metaphorically) and join the pile-on, knowing they're gonna be a part of something huge.
Revenge is a dish best tasted cold, said The Bard

How all occasions do inform against them.


Gentlemen, your offence is rank. It smells to heaven. You are three men of sin.

Off with your heads!!!

[The_Dud]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

Neither Clarkson or Fagan are First Nations people.

So (as others have said) why would they be part of a review into First Nations players/coaches experiences at the club?

[Scollop]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

Neither Clarkson or Fagan are First Nations people.

So (as others have said) why would they be part of a review into First Nations players/coaches experiences at the club?

Kennet, Hodge, CURLY, Sebastion Tombs, Fireman, and Teflon would have just preferred that Fagan and Clarkson were the ones who were interviewed by the Hawthorn Football Club. Why didn’t they just ask Clarko and Fages how well they treated everyone?

Both upstanding AFL citizens and very successful in their occupations, plus respectable family men.

I can’t believe Hawthorn didn’t think of that.

[markp]

Didn't hawthorn fc commission the report and set the guidelines stipulating that only indigenous players (etc) were to be interviewed?

Wasn't the commissioning of the report a part of jeff kennett's and the hfc's response to accusations levelled against him and the club by cyril rioli?

Didn't the report get leaked and not released?

[The G Train Legacy]

I see Sam Mitchell's auto biography book basically corroborates some of the indigenous players allegations against Clarkson. He said after he had the twins one of them was very sick and Clarkson and the club basically showed zero empathy. On an intersate trip to Sydney, Clarkson took all the players phones not allowing Mitchell's family to contact him re his unwell child. It was so bad Mitchell wanted to leave the club.

Clarkson sounds like a complete control freak and completely over stepped his role as coach.

How many more red flags are needed before some people acknowledge these blokes might have been up to some dodgy sh*t?

Can you actually detail some of these red flags? Because I don't see them. A flight to Sydney lasts an hour. And wtf would Michell have done from 30000 feet if his wife did need him?

I wonder what the outcome of a survey of the grievances of all young recruits across the AFL would end up looking like?

[The_Dud]

I see Sam Mitchell's auto biography book basically corroborates some of the indigenous players allegations against Clarkson. He said after he had the twins one of them was very sick and Clarkson and the club basically showed zero empathy. On an intersate trip to Sydney, Clarkson took all the players phones not allowing Mitchell's family to contact him re his unwell child. It was so bad Mitchell wanted to leave the club.

Clarkson sounds like a complete control freak and completely over stepped his role as coach.

How many more red flags are needed before some people acknowledge these blokes might have been up to some dodgy sh*t?

Can you actually detail some of these red flags? Because I don't see them. A flight to Sydney lasts an hour. And wtf would Michell have done from 30000 feet if his wife did need him?

I wonder what the outcome of a survey of the grievances of all young recruits across the AFL would end up looking like?

The report.
The article.
The confirmation from another coach.
Cyril Rioli saga.
Sam Mitchell.
Past documented anger outbursts.

Connect the dots.

[CURLY]

I see Sam Mitchell's auto biography book basically corroborates some of the indigenous players allegations against Clarkson. He said after he had the twins one of them was very sick and Clarkson and the club basically showed zero empathy. On an intersate trip to Sydney, Clarkson took all the players phones not allowing Mitchell's family to contact him re his unwell child. It was so bad Mitchell wanted to leave the club.

Clarkson sounds like a complete control freak and completely over stepped his role as coach.

How many more red flags are needed before some people acknowledge these blokes might have been up to some dodgy sh*t?

Can you actually detail some of these red flags? Because I don't see them. A flight to Sydney lasts an hour. And wtf would Michell have done from 30000 feet if his wife did need him?

I wonder what the outcome of a survey of the grievances of all young recruits across the AFL would end up looking like?

The report.
The article.
The confirmation from another coach.
Cyril Rioli saga.
Sam Mitchell.
Past documented anger outbursts.

Connect the dots.

The Cyril Rioli saga. hahahahahahah

[CURLY]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

Neither Clarkson or Fagan are First Nations people.

So (as others have said) why would they be part of a review into First Nations players/coaches experiences at the club?

Kennet, Hodge, CURLY, Sebastion Tombs, Fireman, and Teflon would have just preferred that Fagan and Clarkson were the ones who were interviewed by the Hawthorn Football Club. Why didn’t they just ask Clarko and Fages how well they treated everyone?

Both upstanding AFL citizens and very successful in their occupations, plus respectable family men.

I can’t believe Hawthorn didn’t think of that.

Yeah we always interview and survey disgruntled ex employees when we do our managers performance review.

[The_Dud]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

Neither Clarkson or Fagan are First Nations people.

So (as others have said) why would they be part of a review into First Nations players/coaches experiences at the club?

Kennet, Hodge, CURLY, Sebastion Tombs, Fireman, and Teflon would have just preferred that Fagan and Clarkson were the ones who were interviewed by the Hawthorn Football Club. Why didn’t they just ask Clarko and Fages how well they treated everyone?

Both upstanding AFL citizens and very successful in their occupations, plus respectable family men.

I can’t believe Hawthorn didn’t think of that.

Yeah we always interview and survey disgruntled ex employees when we do our managers performance review.

Curly's method for finding out how the Indigenous people are doing = ask the white folk

lol

#DefinitelyNotRacist

[shanegrambeau]

Will North (AFL subsidies) have to play Clarko out if his position is untenable?

[CURLY]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

Neither Clarkson or Fagan are First Nations people.

So (as others have said) why would they be part of a review into First Nations players/coaches experiences at the club?

Kennet, Hodge, CURLY, Sebastion Tombs, Fireman, and Teflon would have just preferred that Fagan and Clarkson were the ones who were interviewed by the Hawthorn Football Club. Why didn’t they just ask Clarko and Fages how well they treated everyone?

Both upstanding AFL citizens and very successful in their occupations, plus respectable family men.

I can’t believe Hawthorn didn’t think of that.

Yeah we always interview and survey disgruntled ex employees when we do our managers performance review.

Curly's method for finding out how the Indigenous people are doing = ask the white folk

lol

#DefinitelyNotRacist

No I'd prefer to just ask everyone involved. But hey lets just go the witch hunt route that worked well in the past.

[shanegrambeau]

Will North (AFL subsidies) have to play Clarko out if his position is untenable?

[The G Train Legacy]

I see Sam Mitchell's auto biography book basically corroborates some of the indigenous players allegations against Clarkson. He said after he had the twins one of them was very sick and Clarkson and the club basically showed zero empathy. On an intersate trip to Sydney, Clarkson took all the players phones not allowing Mitchell's family to contact him re his unwell child. It was so bad Mitchell wanted to leave the club.

Clarkson sounds like a complete control freak and completely over stepped his role as coach.

How many more red flags are needed before some people acknowledge these blokes might have been up to some dodgy sh*t?

Can you actually detail some of these red flags? Because I don't see them. A flight to Sydney lasts an hour. And wtf would Michell have done from 30000 feet if his wife did need him?

I wonder what the outcome of a survey of the grievances of all young recruits across the AFL would end up looking like?

The report.
The article.
The confirmation from another coach.
Cyril Rioli saga.
Sam Mitchell.
Past documented anger outbursts.

Connect the dots.

Nothing in the above List is evidence of any weight, some of it completely irrelevant. The allegations made to the ABC are not in the report by the way. We have a forceful denial from Clarkson and the allegations have not been cross examined. I foresee the ABC paying out another big defamation claim, but it's OK it's not their money.

[Scollop]

I see Sam Mitchell's auto biography book basically corroborates some of the indigenous players allegations against Clarkson. He said after he had the twins one of them was very sick and Clarkson and the club basically showed zero empathy. On an intersate trip to Sydney, Clarkson took all the players phones not allowing Mitchell's family to contact him re his unwell child. It was so bad Mitchell wanted to leave the club.

Clarkson sounds like a complete control freak and completely over stepped his role as coach.

How many more red flags are needed before some people acknowledge these blokes might have been up to some dodgy sh*t?

Can you actually detail some of these red flags? Because I don't see them. A flight to Sydney lasts an hour. And wtf would Michell have done from 30000 feet if his wife did need him?

I wonder what the outcome of a survey of the grievances of all young recruits across the AFL would end up looking like?

The report.
The article.
The confirmation from another coach.
Cyril Rioli saga.
Sam Mitchell.
Past documented anger outbursts.

Connect the dots.

Nothing in the above List is evidence of any weight, some of it completely irrelevant. The allegations made to the ABC are not in the report by the way. We have a forceful denial from Clarkson and the allegations have not been cross examined. I foresee the ABC paying out another big defamation claim, but it's OK it's not their money.

You’ve read the Hawthorn document have you?

Of course you haven’t!! So why would you ASSUME that ‘the allegations made to the ABC are not in the report‘? I’ll tell you why….

Gil McLachlan came out and did a media conference immediately after the ABC article was published. He was sitting on the Hawthorn document for quite some time. One of his statements was that ‘there were things in the ABC report that he wasn’t aware of’. That doesn’t mean that EVERYTHING in the journalist’s report was a surprise to him, but perhaps that’s the impression that some people got

Perhaps people’s bias and prejudice and preconceived ideas about how AFL clubs treat their players didn’t allow people to be open minded.

Or….is it because people can’t read. YES… try and read and comprehend the ABC article again. It’s out there in the public domain…

Here you go. I’ll even quote it to you directly. This is the first two paragraphs

“An external review commissioned by the Hawthorn Football Club will reveal allegations that key figures at the AFL club demanded the separation of young First Nations players from their partners, and pressured one couple to terminate a pregnancy for the sake of the player's career.”

“The review document, handed to Hawthorn's senior management two weeks ago and now with the AFL integrity unit, will allege that club staff involved include four-time premiership coach Alastair Clarkson and former assistant Chris Fagan, now the coach of the Brisbane Lions.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/ ... /101452320

[Teflon]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

Neither Clarkson or Fagan are First Nations people.

So (as others have said) why would they be part of a review into First Nations players/coaches experiences at the club?

Kennet, Hodge, CURLY, Sebastion Tombs, Fireman, and Teflon would have just preferred that Fagan and Clarkson were the ones who were interviewed by the Hawthorn Football Club. Why didn’t they just ask Clarko and Fages how well they treated everyone?

Both upstanding AFL citizens and very successful in their occupations, plus respectable family men.

I can’t believe Hawthorn didn’t think of that.

Nope
I’d preferred they just went direct to you for some good old fashioned left wing immediate justice that as judge, jury and executioner you’re so good at dishing
Scollop the oracle …or orifice?

[Teflon]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

The report was about indigenous players and their family’s experiences at the club. The response from coaches was not in the scope of the report. I presume it was slated as if anything comes out of the report it will have to be looked into further, as it was to be with the afl integrity investigation.

Is a victim impact statement in a criminal matter unbalanced because it doesn’t ask for the alleged criminal’s version? That is why there are other processes in place, to get the other side.

Thanks Frank Galbally not sure victim impact statements in criminal matters is the right analogy..
The “report” made allegations (just look at that word….ALLEGEDLY) so it’s a 1 side doc
That’s lovely
The problem is due process is now **** - doesn’t matter what Clarkson, Fagan do from here they’re redneck racists (just check out sone of the dribble on this thread…baying yo hang another middle aged white guy with 1 side of the story).
IF the ALLEGATIONS are proven alls fine but any s*** at a fair process is now gone
THATS the issue THAT should frighten anyone.

[Scollop]

Oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh….. bait is working well today….I think I’ve hooked one….the elusive Teflon

[Teflon]

Didn't hawthorn fc commission the report and set the guidelines stipulating that only indigenous players (etc) were to be interviewed?

Wasn't the commissioning of the report a part of jeff kennett's and the hfc's response to accusations levelled against him and the club by cyril rioli?

Didn't the report get leaked and not released?

Can u flick me the reports terms you seem to have them to hand
Could you flick them to Clarko and Fags whike you’re at it?
Probably only fair they get to see them
Thanks

[Scollop]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

Neither Clarkson or Fagan are First Nations people.

So (as others have said) why would they be part of a review into First Nations players/coaches experiences at the club?

Kennet, Hodge, CURLY, Sebastion Tombs, Fireman, and Teflon would have just preferred that Fagan and Clarkson were the ones who were interviewed by the Hawthorn Football Club. Why didn’t they just ask Clarko and Fages how well they treated everyone?

Both upstanding AFL citizens and very successful in their occupations, plus respectable family men.

I can’t believe Hawthorn didn’t think of that.

Nope
I’d preferred they just went direct to you for some good old fashioned left wing immediate justice that as judge, jury and executioner you’re so good at dishing
Scollop the oracle …or orifice?

What are your views about what happened at the Essendon FC when they injected prohibited substances into their employees and experimental drugs including horse steroids?

Should we believe the players or should we believe James Hird and Bomber Thompson?

[Teflon]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

Neither Clarkson or Fagan are First Nations people.

So (as others have said) why would they be part of a review into First Nations players/coaches experiences at the club?

How do you call it a “review” when only allegations in a 1 sided document are tabled ?
And semantics aside…
If I’m tabling a bunch of allegations against someone …to suggest that other party isn’t part of the “review” is nonsense
What we hace are a bunch of documented allegations - sure Clarkson et al may not need to be captured in that ..
But a review that is not! that’s just claims until a review
All that’s beside the point now
There is little chance of procedural fairness …Clarkson and co (and I don’t like Clarkson) are guilty
Just ask Scollop

[SaintPav]

Has anyone on here read the report?