Clarko and the Hawks alleged disgusting behaviour.

[Killa]

I have put on this site previously, in response to certain calling for Clarkson to Coach St Kilda, that Clarkson at St Kilda would not be entertained and for very good reason.

The information I have is that the Hawthorn players requested of the Line Coaches that Clarkson remain in the Coaches Box and not on the boundary under any circumstance (acknowledging that Hawthorn had the players it had at that time hence were successful)

There were reasons for that request to the Line Coaches.

There was also the likening of Clarkson to Langer, where the players saw Langer off.

The information given to me is now confirmed by others who are now reported in the media, including the current Hawthorn Coach.

There are people at St Kilda who were at Hawthorn during the Clarkson years - and their knowledge of Hawthorn during their times at Hawthorn is benefiting St Kilda including by the Clarkson micro management model not being replicated.

Footy Clubs, and life, includes the multitude of characters and you need to embrace and build on that multitude of characters.

Not micro manage and dictate - because those days are gone.

Society - including those at Football Clubs - are just too educated these days to be dictated to


North Melbourne are now in a compromised circumstance.

Clarkson could very well go the same way as Langer - at best.

[SaintPav]

So join in the chorus, and sing it one and all

Join in the chorus, Norf Melbourne's on the ball

[Impatient Sainter]

I see Sam Mitchell's auto biography book basically corroborates some of the indigenous players allegations against Clarkson. He said after he had the twins one of them was very sick and Clarkson and the club basically showed zero empathy. On an intersate trip to Sydney, Clarkson took all the players phones not allowing Mitchell's family to contact him re his unwell child. It was so bad Mitchell wanted to leave the club.

Clarkson sounds like a complete control freak and completely over stepped his role as coach.

[The_Dud]

I see Sam Mitchell's auto biography book basically corroborates some of the indigenous players allegations against Clarkson. He said after he had the twins one of them was very sick and Clarkson and the club basically showed zero empathy. On an intersate trip to Sydney, Clarkson took all the players phones not allowing Mitchell's family to contact him re his unwell child. It was so bad Mitchell wanted to leave the club.

Clarkson sounds like a complete control freak and completely over stepped his role as coach.

How many more red flags are needed before some people acknowledge these blokes might have been up to some dodgy sh*t?

[SaintPav]

Horrid.

Mitchell’s biography came out in 2018.

Have the media written about any of this before?

[Yorkeys]

I have put on this site previously, in response to certain calling for Clarkson to Coach St Kilda, that Clarkson at St Kilda would not be entertained and for very good reason.

The information I have is that the Hawthorn players requested of the Line Coaches that Clarkson remain in the Coaches Box and not on the boundary under any circumstance (acknowledging that Hawthorn had the players it had at that time hence were successful)

There were reasons for that request to the Line Coaches.

There was also the likening of Clarkson to Langer, where the players saw Langer off.

The information given to me is now confirmed by others who are now reported in the media, including the current Hawthorn Coach.

There are people at St Kilda who were at Hawthorn during the Clarkson years - and their knowledge of Hawthorn during their times at Hawthorn is benefiting St Kilda including by the Clarkson micro management model not being replicated.

Footy Clubs, and life, includes the multitude of characters and you need to embrace and build on that multitude of characters.

Not micro manage and dictate - because those days are gone.

Society - including those at Football Clubs - are just too educated these days to be dictated to


North Melbourne are now in a compromised circumstance.

Clarkson could very well go the same way as Langer - at best.

Just can't see Clarko delivering JLs fatherly home spun wisdom anecdotes with the same earnest mad gleam in his eye. Rather than allegories I think Clarko would just be " because I say so, and now you ......."

[shanegrambeau]

I have put on this site previously, in response to certain calling for Clarkson to Coach St Kilda, that Clarkson at St Kilda would not be entertained and for very good reason.

The information I have is that the Hawthorn players requested of the Line Coaches that Clarkson remain in the Coaches Box and not on the boundary under any circumstance (acknowledging that Hawthorn had the players it had at that time hence were successful)

There were reasons for that request to the Line Coaches.

There was also the likening of Clarkson to Langer, where the players saw Langer off.

The information given to me is now confirmed by others who are now reported in the media, including the current Hawthorn Coach.

There are people at St Kilda who were at Hawthorn during the Clarkson years - and their knowledge of Hawthorn during their times at Hawthorn is benefiting St Kilda including by the Clarkson micro management model not being replicated.

Footy Clubs, and life, includes the multitude of characters and you need to embrace and build on that multitude of characters.

Not micro manage and dictate - because those days are gone.

Society - including those at Football Clubs - are just too educated these days to be dictated to



North Melbourne are now in a compromised circumstance.

Clarkson could very well go the same way as Langer - at best.

Just can't see Clarko delivering JLs fatherly home spun wisdom anecdotes with the same earnest mad gleam in his eye. Rather than allegories I think Clarko would just be " because I say so, and now you ......."

"Micro manage" and "dictate" are words to mean, 'take responsibility'?
Because who takes the fall?
The head coach is the one who gets sacked etc.,

The problem with the 'multitudes of cells' model is that the individuals that inhabit those cells are now fenced into meeting a specific set of parameters that are artificially or arbitrarily created, and not accountable to the big picture directly, which should be based on only one thing: Win by any means (within good moral ethical standards) regardless of power structure , we win the flag. By hook or crook, sub committee or no sub committee, review or no review, if the boot studder takes over for a few weeks, so be it. BUt when things are in cells, the individuals define their 'professionalism' by ticking boxes inside those cells. When they meet these targets, they will tick off their 'performance' . They are career accumulators. They are not fighting a war. They may well be somewhere else next year. They maybe write a Masters THesis in Sports Administration and using their experience to write it. What do they care about ? a flag for St Kilda? Completing a thesis and getting that new position over at Greater Northern Tasmania next year?

And the AFL encourages this too...which just reinforces the 'cell thing'.

Clarko and Sheedy , GT...these guys are rogues. And successful ones.
Just look at th Reviews now going, and note we get Geoff Walsh in.

A person like Brad Scott, quit North...Why? Because these 'cells' were eroding him and his ability to keep control and do things his way. Needless to say, NOrth fell in a heap...Rebuild? ...a complete destruction...officials left in droves...and yes...they hire Geoff Walsh... Said the Ceo, "We will lean on Geoff's experience as we look to improve all aspects of the football program and how we operate – from coaching and development, list management, preparation and performance, player welfare, culture and environment.

What a tragigedy

Yes, NOrth are compromised.

YOu need leaders..

We now have Walsh too..

[Sebastian Tombs]

Let see if i understand this now we find out that he was a "control freak" to all his players, So if he says the same thing to 20 players 5 of which are first nation he's being rascist 5 times and the other 15 he's just a control freak ??or could be he treated his players all the same regardless of the colour of their skin

[skeptic]

Let see if i understand this now we find out that he was a "control freak" to all his players, So if he says the same thing to 20 players 5 of which are first nation he's being rascist 5 times and the other 15 he's just a control freak ??or could be he treated his players all the same regardless of the colour of their skin

But is it the same thing?

The question at play is are the alleged club imposed lifestyle changes things they would have pushed with less vulnerable/disadvantaged people that would have had greater support around them to challenge them.

I do casual work at a mental clinic on the weekends that I used to work at.

I listened with interest one day about an incident where 2 staff members were told to admit a patient on rather flimsy pretences by the shift leader.
They questioned it and it is alleged that the shift leader called them lazy. The 2 staff were quite junior in their careers and I was aware of a bit of tension btw one of them and the shift leader.

Now here’s the thing that jumped out at me. Regardless of the clinical basis for the argument… I have absolutely no doubt that that shift leader (who I get along with) would never have dared speak to me like that. If I presented a clinical reason for decision making and someone made a crack about laziness driving that decision then they had better have their ducks in a row becuase the person that makes that crack…
I would ensure that they got reprimanded, force them to publicly admit they acted in an unprofessional and apologise and I’d push the issue of them having conduct training and raise the issue of if they’re fit to be in charge.

Hence I suspect at least part of the conduct here was driven by selectively choosing the target

Point here is that it can be easy to brow beat or bully soft targets into doing what you want. The one measure of the validity of an intervention is whether you apply it equally.

[IluvHarvey]

I see Sam Mitchell's auto biography book basically corroborates some of the indigenous players allegations against Clarkson. He said after he had the twins one of them was very sick and Clarkson and the club basically showed zero empathy. On an intersate trip to Sydney, Clarkson took all the players phones not allowing Mitchell's family to contact him re his unwell child. It was so bad Mitchell wanted to leave the club.

Clarkson sounds like a complete control freak and completely over stepped his role as coach.

How many more red flags are needed before some people acknowledge these blokes might have been up to some dodgy sh*t?

But he is well respected, Curly keeps telling us that.

[The_Dud]

Let see if i understand this now we find out that he was a "control freak" to all his players, So if he says the same thing to 20 players 5 of which are first nation he's being rascist 5 times and the other 15 he's just a control freak ??or could be he treated his players all the same regardless of the colour of their skin

If the alleged events had some conscious or unconscious racism attached, he’s screwed.

If the alleged events had no racism attached, he’s screwed.

They’re going with them “deny til you die” technique, it’s the only way to possibly save their careers and millions of dollars.

[Moods]

Let see if i understand this now we find out that he was a "control freak" to all his players, So if he says the same thing to 20 players 5 of which are first nation he's being rascist 5 times and the other 15 he's just a control freak ??or could be he treated his players all the same regardless of the colour of their skin

But is it the same thing?

The question at play is are the alleged club imposed lifestyle changes things they would have pushed with less vulnerable/disadvantaged people that would have had greater support around them to challenge them.

I do casual work at a mental clinic on the weekends that I used to work at.

I listened with interest one day about an incident where 2 staff members were told to admit a patient on rather flimsy pretences by the shift leader.
They questioned it and it is alleged that the shift leader called them lazy. The 2 staff were quite junior in their careers and I was aware of a bit of tension btw one of them and the shift leader.

Now here’s the thing that jumped out at me. Regardless of the clinical basis for the argument… I have absolutely no doubt that that shift leader (who I get along with) would never have dared speak to me like that. If I presented a clinical reason for decision making and someone made a crack about laziness driving that decision then they had better have their ducks in a row becuase the person that makes that crack…
I would ensure that they got reprimanded, force them to publicly admit they acted in an unprofessional and apologise and I’d push the issue of them having conduct training and raise the issue of if they’re fit to be in charge.

Hence I suspect at least part of the conduct here was driven by selectively choosing the target

Point here is that it can be easy to brow beat or bully soft targets into doing what you want. The one measure of the validity of an intervention is whether you apply it equally.

Your point is well made, but I’m not convinced it’s racism. Definitely some human rights breaches are in jeopardy. Did he target/bully/guide/ advise indigenous players exclusively? It appears not. Sam Mitchell is evidence that he tried to control everything and everyone. Shaun Burgoyne is evidence that not all indigenous players were treated with disrespect. My opinion is that, like most authoritarians, the most junior most expendable were targeted and least able to defend themselves. That’s not racism, he didn’t care who they were, it was his way or the highway whoever you were.

They have 4 flags to show for it, and now a tainted legacy

[skeptic]

Let see if i understand this now we find out that he was a "control freak" to all his players, So if he says the same thing to 20 players 5 of which are first nation he's being rascist 5 times and the other 15 he's just a control freak ??or could be he treated his players all the same regardless of the colour of their skin

But is it the same thing?

The question at play is are the alleged club imposed lifestyle changes things they would have pushed with less vulnerable/disadvantaged people that would have had greater support around them to challenge them.

I do casual work at a mental clinic on the weekends that I used to work at.

I listened with interest one day about an incident where 2 staff members were told to admit a patient on rather flimsy pretences by the shift leader.
They questioned it and it is alleged that the shift leader called them lazy. The 2 staff were quite junior in their careers and I was aware of a bit of tension btw one of them and the shift leader.

Now here’s the thing that jumped out at me. Regardless of the clinical basis for the argument… I have absolutely no doubt that that shift leader (who I get along with) would never have dared speak to me like that. If I presented a clinical reason for decision making and someone made a crack about laziness driving that decision then they had better have their ducks in a row becuase the person that makes that crack…
I would ensure that they got reprimanded, force them to publicly admit they acted in an unprofessional and apologise and I’d push the issue of them having conduct training and raise the issue of if they’re fit to be in charge.

Hence I suspect at least part of the conduct here was driven by selectively choosing the target

Point here is that it can be easy to brow beat or bully soft targets into doing what you want. The one measure of the validity of an intervention is whether you apply it equally.

Your point is well made, but I’m not convinced it’s racism. Definitely some human rights breaches are in jeopardy. Did he target/bully/guide/ advise indigenous players exclusively? It appears not. Sam Mitchell is evidence that he tried to control everything and everyone. Shaun Burgoyne is evidence that not all indigenous players were treated with disrespect. My opinion is that, like most authoritarians, the most junior most expendable were targeted and least able to defend themselves. That’s not racism, he didn’t care who they were, it was his way or the highway whoever you were.

They have 4 flags to show for it, and now a tainted legacy

Fair enough. Like I said… the issue here is applying interventions equally.

I have no doubt that Clarkson doesn’t harbour any racially driven hateful ideation. As you’ve pointed out… been in the system for a long time, worked with a ton of Indigenous players and pbly players of other ethnicity almost entirely without incident and generally well regarded by his players (or at least most… you always have turncoats or ppl that respond poorly to what you’re doing).

IMO the modern challenge with racial equality is not the blatant hate but it’s about actually treating people the same disregarding race. The stuff with Adam Goodes for example… boo’d for 20+ weeks apparently because he was annoying and not because he pushed racial issues… Milne wasn’t boo’d with that animosity… Aker was a super annoying guy that didn’t cop that… heck even that thug Barry Hall got away with a lot more.

To be clear… I’m not suggesting anyone involved is guilty or not. I don’t know enough about the whole story. But if a player has been told you need to separate from the ppl you care about or you’re finished here…
Well I question whether that type of thing would be applied equally.

Appreciate the chat

[Teflon]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

[Vortex]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

This feels strange but I think I agree with some of that.

They have got the process horribly, horribly wrong. This won't improve anything the way it's playing out, and in fact I fear it is going to create angry division.

[SaintPav]

https://footyology.com.au/thirty-years- ... -remember/

[Saints58]

Where does that leave us with Rats, Roughead, Rath all being at Hawthorn at the Time did Rats see or do anything at the time as well, certainly hope not?

[Teflon]

Where does that leave us with Rats, Roughead, Rath all being at Hawthorn at the Time did Rats see or do anything at the time as well, certainly hope not?

Ratts was cuddling in the back room missed it all

[SaintPav]

Ouch baby!

[The_Dud]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

[shanegrambeau]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Dangerous times...but a vicious cycle....men are desperate to distance themselves from the disease-ridden, lepers of the past, and will use you or anyone they can to shout out their "credentials".

The compromise - what? there is is never a compromise, ever is there...not when human rights are concerned, right?

The Thin Red Line

From the movie.. Nic Nolty, as Lt. Col. Tall speaks to Captain James 'Bugger' Straros played by Elias Koteas.
The Captain is reluctant to attack a ridge, and endanger his men



Lt. Col. Gordon Tall : Guadalcanal may be the turning point in the war. It'II cost lives, Staros. Is that what's troubling you?

Capt. James 'Bugger' Staros : No, sir.

Lt. Col. Gordon Tall : I explained to you the importance of this objective. How many men do you think it's worth? How many lives?

Capt. James 'Bugger' Staros : I can't say, sir.

Lt. Col. Gordon Tall : Are you prepared to sacrifice the Iives of any of your men in this campaign? How many? One? Two? Twenty? Lives wiII be Iost in your company, Captain. And if you don't have the stomach for it, now is the time to let me know.

Capt. James 'Bugger' Staros : No, sir. You're right - about everything you said.

Now you will try - as you will - to pathologize me - for daring to suggest that this has nothing to do with that...

Well, I don't care, fo ahead and hang me.

And I'll say one more thing.

Yes, we know how the press works. So do the bad guys.

The Nazis dressed up as Poles and launched a dummy raid on fortifications in order to create a pretext for the invasion of Poland. The illusion didn't last of course, but not before it was all too late. Dittp the Japanese on Mongolia.

[cwrcyn]

There is and always have been myths around 'succesful' coaches. The common threads among the successful coaches are

1. A highly talented playing list
2. A stable and competent administration


Take those two things away and the 'greatness' vanishes pretty quickly.

Many a sh#t bloke and psychopath have coached AFL/VFL with success. And there have been some really nasty and slimy operators who have held the cup aloft.

Success seems to excuse everything, and don't the fawning media drool over the coaches who take their highly talented teams to the top, the journos grovelling for any level of access. Coaches are lauded, almost canonised, and all their sins are miraculously cleansed and washed away, never to be spoken of again.

However, in rare cases, the locked box is opened and then no one can look away.

[Teflon]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

[amusingname]

And not 1 word on the fact that Clarkson/Fagan hasn’t even been provided a copy of the report let alone any ability to share their side of the story????
The ‘mob’ has already adjudicated it would seem
They’re are both racist redneck control freaks - it’s Adam Bandt Kangaroo court Shyte
We live in dangerous times
But no one complains when he delivers 4 flags for Hawks since 2000 as other state ….Mitchell’s books been out a while….it’s convenient now though to dredge all of it up to create a narrative…
I’m not saying they’re innocent
I am saying the way they’ve been found guilty already is appalling by allegations from people who get to remain anonymous
Frightening.

Both were contacted and given an opportunity to respond before the article was published and they chose not to.

As for the review/report, things leaking to the media is basically a given these days, that’s a separate problem.

Responding to muck taking journo articles is different to responding to formal report allegations you haven’t even seen
Both Clarkson and Fagan stated they were not interviewed or provided a copy of the report
How do you write a balanced report with 1 sude if the facts????
Appalling at best.

The report was about indigenous players and their family’s experiences at the club. The response from coaches was not in the scope of the report. I presume it was slated as if anything comes out of the report it will have to be looked into further, as it was to be with the afl integrity investigation.

Is a victim impact statement in a criminal matter unbalanced because it doesn’t ask for the alleged criminal’s version? That is why there are other processes in place, to get the other side.

[Ghost Like]

Isn't a Victim Impact Statement only read / made public once a guilty verdict has been reached?

That verdict has only been reached after both sides have been given an opportunity to present their version of events and related evidence.