Is St.Kilda now in rebuild?

[Sainternist]

We may as well be, imo.

If there’s no sign of premiership window, you may as well aim for a youth policy of sorts.

Of course, the common misconception is that a club who rebuilds is in free fall, or is bottoming out. That doesn’t have to be the case at all.

So, if we are rebuilding, perhaps this time we can actually get it right.

[SaintPav]

They wouldn’t’ have been chasing JDG if they thought they were in rebuild.

[shanegrambeau]

We may as well be, imo.

If there’s no sign of premiership window, you may as well aim for a youth policy of sorts.

Of course, the common misconception is that a club who rebuilds is in free fall, or is bottoming out. That doesn’t have to be the case at all.

So, if we are rebuilding, perhaps this time we can actually get it right.

MAy as well go to Tasmania then.

We are NOT in rebuild.
Why?
Because we simply cannot attract players.
Matters not if we have draftees you say?
Matters, big time!
We are not GWS or Gold Piss.
They can be that rotating turnstile because they get favors.
They can suck players like plankton through a blue whale's gob.
We are a turtle and we have to hang on to our eggs.

[skeptic]

Let’s have a look…

Combing through the entire list… here’s the ballpark

Paton, Howard, Wilkie
Coffield, Battle, Clark
Hill, Steele, NWM
Membrey, Hayes, Wood
Higgins, King, Gresh
Marshall, Sinclair, Crouch
Windhager, Owens, Ross, Coops

Dmac, Butler, Campbell - depth

Bytel, Connolly, Highmore, Byrnes - once promising but stagnated

Billings, Jones, Webster, Lienert - good enough to be top 22 but not that impressive and not getting better


So far this off-season, we’ve moved on Geary, Kent, Joyce, Hannebery, Ryder and Long is in the way out possibly with Clark

Anyone not mentioned is nowhere near it.

6 out, 4 that won’t play in 2023… that’s 10 we’re already down… not including anyone that’s traded out voluntarily or otherwise

Seems to me that we need to seriously turner over a big portion of the list and bring in some serious depth.

Not a rebuild, but dangerously close to needing a big one soon if we don’t make some realistic calls in this list

[desertsaint]

sharman surely near it

[Sainternist]

Well, I guess we are in perpetual AFL limbo, then

[Templar]

Let’s have a look…

Combing through the entire list… here’s the ballpark

Paton, Howard, Wilkie
Coffield, Battle, Clark
Hill, Steele, NWM
Membrey, Hayes, Wood
Higgins, King, Gresh
Marshall, Sinclair, Crouch
Windhager, Owens, Ross, Coops

Dmac, Butler, Campbell - depth

Without injury and if his form is like where it left off I think Dmac is 100% first 22. Missed him badly when he was injured. So switch out for Clark (if gone) or Paton?

[skeptic]

Let’s have a look…

Combing through the entire list… here’s the ballpark

Paton, Howard, Wilkie
Coffield, Battle, Clark
Hill, Steele, NWM
Membrey, Hayes, Wood
Higgins, King, Gresh
Marshall, Sinclair, Crouch
Windhager, Owens, Ross, Coops

Dmac, Butler, Campbell - depth

Without injury and if his form is like where it left off I think Dmac is 100% first 22. Missed him badly when he was injured. So switch out for Clark (if gone) or Paton?

More or less agreed. I threw Woods on the flank and Coops on the bench for versatility but Dmac is absolutely the more firmly established

[Yorkeys]

Certainly have rebuilt the support staff.

[shanegrambeau]

Well, I guess we are in perpetual AFL limbo, then

I would say so.

We need to be like North under Brad Scott - before he was forced by a CALAMITY COMMITTEE to 'rebuild' ..which effectively sent them into a disaster spiral of doom, from which they are yet to emerge.

We need to hold the line - somewhere between 10th and 6th until a new AFL chapter begins.

That means doing what North did, by being realistic and astute.

We are flying at 5,000 feet. There is no room to 'bottom out'...we will crash.

NO teams, GWS, GC and Tassie included will be ready to help us. The maligned old skool Melbourne clubs like Essensdon, Carlton and Collingwood are waiting for any easy prey that falls across their radar.

We must be very, very careful.

No CAirns!

No 'rebuild'!!

WARNING< WARNING< WARNIG

Sunny Earnest!

Enough is enough!

[Scollop]

Jack Bytel got a wake up call this year and I hope he realises he has to improve his tank. He was kept out of the team for round 1 for a few reasons but the whole list build and list management decisions recently are a mish mash.

If we are looking to the future then we must keep Bytel.

He’s certainly a class above VFL level and he performed well in the early rounds of the VFL. The preseason form of Seb Ross, Brad Crouch, Gresham and others meant he was only an emergency for the seniors. He failed to break into the squad the way we were performing early in the year. He was injured midseason, but came back into the VFL team and finished the year with some really strong performances

https://vfl.aflmstats.com/player/Jack_Bytel

[Beno88]

Between the byes in 2021 and 2022 we went 13-8, only Melbourne, Geelong & Brisbane did better.

After the 2022 bye we went 3-8, only North, West Coast & GWS were worse.

Which is more representative of our list?

We know what we're capable of. But we haven't sustained it. I don't think that cries rebuild.

[B.M]

StK has a thirst to improve

[SaintPav]

Wrong thread.

[Templar]

After the 2022 bye we went 3-8, only North, West Coast & GWS were worse.

I wonder if the review looks into what the specific triggers were for the slump. Still hoping it was just a bad movie the group went to on the bye weekend.

[Vortex]

Jack Bytel got a wake up call this year and I hope he realises he has to improve his tank. He was kept out of the team for round 1 for a few reasons but the whole list build and list management decisions recently are a mish mash.

If we are looking to the future then we must keep Bytel.

He’s certainly a class above VFL level and he performed well in the early rounds of the VFL. The preseason form of Seb Ross, Brad Crouch, Gresham and others meant he was only an emergency for the seniors. He failed to break into the squad the way we were performing early in the year. He was injured midseason, but came back into the VFL team and finished the year with some really strong performances

https://vfl.aflmstats.com/player/Jack_Bytel

Significantly overrated, 5 years on the list and really hasn't shown anything in AFL games to suggest he belongs in a sustainable top 4 side.

Windy is the type of recruit we need to find more of, you could tell from his first game he MIGHT belong and was still showing that in his last game, so there are two ways he can go now, one might be the Dunstan way, or he may be the next Selwood. But once the club finds a player who can deliver from the get go like Windy has then the club needs to be ruthless in its eliteness and tell the player you only have 3 years to prove you can play preliminary finals type footy.

The club should adopt the policy that if after 3 years you haven't made the grade then cut them. ..5 to 7 years on a list is way too long to prove you MIGHT look comfortable in a sustainable top 4 side.

[DJ Higgins]

Things are not as dire as our fans are making them out to be. A few things have to go our way and we will be in finals in 2024 if not next year.
We keep the young guys, all of them. Not all will succeed but most look good for at least next year. Owens, windhager, nwm, hunter, bytel coffield Byrnes could all be good and have shown glimpses and a hard pre season may be the catalyst for huge improvement
Trade with 2023 in mind as it’s meant to be a super draft. Ie keep next years picks
Recruit for the position we need filled not for a player who may move there. Ie if we want a mid recruit a mid not another hbf flanker that might be a mid
Get a tall defender with one pick ideally round one or two as we are small at the back with most defenders playing tall
Finally keep players in their best position. Eg Sinclair is killing it at hbf flanker. See the game in front of him, knows where to be and has the skills to get the ball out cleanly and release pressure. Has been tried on the wings before and was good, not all Australian however. Gresham is a small forward not a mid so stop trying him there. Tried and not succesful

[older saint]

Not sure there is actually such a thing as a rebuild anymore as we knew it in the 90's 2000's.

There is no 1 strategy works -draft/ recruiting / top up . To get there it involves a combination of to accumulate A & high B grade talent. This is more our area of weakness.

Our issues as i see it is a lack of top end talent and a glut of players who "could get to A grade" . The problem we have is many will finish their career and will always be thought of as "Could have got to A grade".

We need to bring in talent , be that at 18 or 27, but we also need to improve development ( which obviously they have addressed). This will take time to be seen to come to fruition , or like our goal kicking coach a waste of time.

I am a hard marker across the league and the use of the champion willy nilly pisses me off . Following this season grades in comparison to the league in regard to what they do:

A Grade: Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Crouch, Marshall,
B+ Grade: But can get better: Howard, King, Gresham, Billings,
B+ Grade: As good as gets: Membrey, HIll, Ross, Webster
B Grade: Can get better: Battle, Clarke, Coffield, Higgins,McKenzie, Wood, Paton
B Grade: As good as it gets: Butler, Jones, Lienert, Campbell,
C Grade: Can get better: Sharman, Connolly, Brynes,

Development : Owens, NWM, Windhaeger, Health, Highmore, Peris, Allison, Hayes ( not young but only 5 games to be fair), Adams

Now you cant have 22 a graders as GWS tried and failed. You need the B graders who hit their peak but play their role and sacrifice for the team - as per Wood, Mckenzie this year ( yes i have can get better based on consistency)

We need at least 3 of the younger guys or Clark (hopefully kept), Coffiled, Gresham, Billings, King to move to A graders within the next 12-24 months.

From this it is obvious why they went for DeGoey - talent and different to anything we have (Gresh closest to him playing wise). If fails i would like to see keep Clark ( my head is still spinning he has been mentioned ) and try to get 2 top 20 picks to add to the 3 guys from last year, or one in top8 and another top 25.

[jonesy]

We are stuck in death valley, once you're there , you better get comfortable. Mid table mediocrity for decades , we're now into our second. The likes of Essendon, Carlton , North have been trapped in it for twice as long as us.

[The_Dud]

Whether we're in a rebuild or not, just make sure every move we make improves the list, whether its trading for a star, bringing in a FA or drafting.

For example, trading Clark for a 3rd round pick would not be improving the list, its a dud deal no matter when we sit on the ladder.

[Gershwin]

By re-appointing Ratten we have clearly indicated that we are not in rebuild. We are in same-same.

[Scollop]

Jack Bytel got a wake up call this year and I hope he realises he has to improve his tank. He was kept out of the team for round 1 for a few reasons but the whole list build and list management decisions recently are a mish mash.

If we are looking to the future then we must keep Bytel.

He’s certainly a class above VFL level and he performed well in the early rounds of the VFL. The preseason form of Seb Ross, Brad Crouch, Gresham and others meant he was only an emergency for the seniors. He failed to break into the squad the way we were performing early in the year. He was injured midseason, but came back into the VFL team and finished the year with some really strong performances

https://vfl.aflmstats.com/player/Jack_Bytel

Significantly overrated, 5 years on the list and really hasn't shown anything in AFL games to suggest he belongs in a sustainable top 4 side.

Windy is the type of recruit we need to find more of, you could tell from his first game he MIGHT belong and was still showing that in his last game, so there are two ways he can go now, one might be the Dunstan way, or he may be the next Selwood. But once the club finds a player who can deliver from the get go like Windy has then the club needs to be ruthless in its eliteness and tell the player you only have 3 years to prove you can play preliminary finals type footy.

The club should adopt the policy that if after 3 years you haven't made the grade then cut them. ..5 to 7 years on a list is way too long to prove you MIGHT look comfortable in a sustainable top 4 side.

Significantly way too much exaggeration and you MIGHT convince people if only you’d get your facts right about how long he’s been on our list

[older saint]

Whether we're in a rebuild or not, just make sure every move we make improves the list, whether its trading for a star, bringing in a FA or drafting.

For example, trading Clark for a 3rd round pick would not be improving the list, its a dud deal no matter when we sit on the ladder.

The question to ask every trade proposal or recruiting decision:

- Does this make us better as a group immediately and longer term?
If not a definite yes to either then question why are we doing this.

[Vortex]

Jack Bytel got a wake up call this year and I hope he realises he has to improve his tank. He was kept out of the team for round 1 for a few reasons but the whole list build and list management decisions recently are a mish mash.

If we are looking to the future then we must keep Bytel.

He’s certainly a class above VFL level and he performed well in the early rounds of the VFL. The preseason form of Seb Ross, Brad Crouch, Gresham and others meant he was only an emergency for the seniors. He failed to break into the squad the way we were performing early in the year. He was injured midseason, but came back into the VFL team and finished the year with some really strong performances

https://vfl.aflmstats.com/player/Jack_Bytel

Significantly overrated, 5 years on the list and really hasn't shown anything in AFL games to suggest he belongs in a sustainable top 4 side.

Windy is the type of recruit we need to find more of, you could tell from his first game he MIGHT belong and was still showing that in his last game, so there are two ways he can go now, one might be the Dunstan way, or he may be the next Selwood. But once the club finds a player who can deliver from the get go like Windy has then the club needs to be ruthless in its eliteness and tell the player you only have 3 years to prove you can play preliminary finals type footy.

The club should adopt the policy that if after 3 years you haven't made the grade then cut them. ..5 to 7 years on a list is way too long to prove you MIGHT look comfortable in a sustainable top 4 side.

Significantly way too much exaggeration and you MIGHT convince people if only you’d get your facts right about how long he’s been on our list

Doesn't look like he's going to make it...fact that.

[Bowey Boy]

No rebuild with our current forwards. Tinkering in the middle.