Clarko and the Hawks alleged disgusting behaviour.

[WellardSaint]

Listen everyone.
Stop the bloody pile-on over Curly.
He's got a strong opinion, which may not agree with yours.
Let him have that opinion, let it go, move on.
His opinion, your opinion, they have zero bearing on what's alleged, and zero effect on things going forward.
All this to n fro is making this thread hard to read.

All of you folk who are abusing Curly- you're just virtue signalling and chest-beating about how Woke you think you are.
You're not woke.
You're just like Granpa Simpson baying at the moon.
Let it go

[The_Dud]

Listen everyone.
Stop the bloody pile-on over Curly.
He's got a strong opinion, which may not agree with yours.
Let him have that opinion, let it go, move on.
His opinion, your opinion, they have zero bearing on what's alleged, and zero effect on things going forward.
All this to n fro is making this thread hard to read.

All of you folk who are abusing Curly- you're just virtue signalling and chest-beating about how Woke you think you are.
You're not woke.
You're just like Granpa Simpson baying at the moon.
Let it go

No one is trying to be “woke”.

“Woke” is a buzzword conservatives adopted and throw around when they get called out for their blatantly homophobic/racist/sexist stances.

After decades of going through life unchallenged, recent times of minorities having a voice has been quite shocking and confronting for a lot of people.

If you don’t like being called out then don’t be those things.

[CURLY]

Don’t be those things

[CQ SAINT]

The way this is being handled is familiar.

Anyone ever heard of the term Terra Nullis.

Although it's clear that I'm guilty or at least that something pretty bad has happened, we can't go back now.

It's compo time, but please lets not drag this $billion industry through its own mud. It's time to move forward.

[cwrcyn]

Aah.....woke. That old chestnut. The cover-all chant from Sky News and Fox News devotees and Donald Trump supporters

Next there'll be the extolling of the virtues of Ayn Rand followed by quotes from Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray.

[st.byron]

Aah.....woke. That old chestnut. The cover-all chant from Sky News and Fox News devotees and Donald Trump supporters

Next there'll be the extolling of the virtues of Ayn Rand followed by quotes from Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray.

Yes agree the old “woke” used as a derogatory term. To be fair Jordan Pietersen has some very insightful things to say. 12 rules for life is one hell of a book.

[CQ SAINT]

I hear Kennett is going to fund another charity and support group.
It's called 'Beyond Babyshit Biege and Bullshat Brown'

[cwrcyn]

Peterson........He's an intense character, and certainly has an obsession with the left. He makes some interesting observations, but his denial of the seriousness of climate change displays a disregard and disrespect of science that I cannot accept.

He's built quite a following, and is revered by the anti-woke right. He has also claimed to be an environmental scientist and an evolutionary biologist, which he is not

[cwrcyn]

Wasn't Jeff Kennett the head of Beyond Black & Blue?

[The_Dud]

Don’t be those things

Read the article yet?

[CQ SAINT]

Don’t be those things

Read the article yet?

He has, but his is written in white and white, so the words look different on the page. It's not Curly's fault.

[CURLY]

Don’t be those things

Read the article yet?

Hung them yet?

[st.byron]

Peterson........He's an intense character, and certainly has an obsession with the left. He makes some interesting observations, but his denial of the seriousness of climate change displays a disregard and disrespect of science that I cannot accept.

He's built quite a following, and is revered by the anti-woke right. He has also claimed to be an environmental scientist and an evolutionary biologist, which he is not

Ahhhhh…I hadn’t heard his views on climate change. That’s disappointing. Yes he’s a poster boy for the right, but still, I got a lot out of 12 Rules for Life.

[SaintPav]

And of course it’s only groups we dislike that use empty phrases for their own political advantage.

[st.byron]

And of course it’s only groups we dislike that use empty phrases for their own political advantage.

Nah that’s not right. They all do it. Finger pointing is the go to strategy on all sides.

[The_Dud]

Don’t be those things

Read the article yet?

Hung them yet?

Sounds over exagerated to be honest.

So you don’t even know what they said and you’re default response is they’re exaggerating?

#definitelynotracist

[CURLY]

Don’t be those things

Read the article yet?

Hung them yet?

Sounds over exagerated to be honest.

So you don’t even know what they said and you’re default response is they’re exaggerating?

#definitelynotracist

Yep read it would like to hear from the two that are being accused before I hang.

Look I understand for you it’s jump on the minority that way you can never be seen as wrong.

[Linton Street Saint]

Yep read it would like to hear from the two that are being accused before I hang.

Look I understand for you it’s jump on the minority that way you can never be seen as wrong.

F**k me Curly, the poor middle age white man minority. You know what they say about arguing with idiots....

[Finna]

what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
how do we know it is racially motivated? its come from a review of their indigenous treatment however it never mentions in the article or anywhere else that this behaviour was exclusive for indigenous players...maybe it is...but what if white males are also victims of this behaviour? maybe there are just a bunch of messed up psychopaths who will cause harm to whomever if it means achieving their goals...

so everyone says it's a reputable journalist...their lawyers have gone over it...blah, blah, blah...it is still unsubstantiated...i've never been a fan of clarko but he deserves the opportunity to a fair hearing...
if found guilty they should all be made to leave the game for good and should be met with the harshest punishment possible...
also, this should be investigated independently as the afl have a track record of covering up stuff that they fear will harm 'the brand'
but seriously, a lot of men and women are making many assumptions and comments on here, and other places, that if not proven true are just slander...

[SaintPav]

Some of these posts and personal attacks are seriously beyond the pale.

The accusations are obviously horrid but both the complainants and the respondents have rights.

Due process has to play out.

The ABC journalist reckons he gave Chris Fagan 24 hours notice to respond to a long list of questions and then gave him more time. Is that long enough?

Fagan claims he can’t recall being at the key meeting. Is that a type of meeting one would easily forget?

Interesting.

https://apple.news/A9gBfD79xTw2xABBJ84WKkA

[Scollop]

‘I can’t recall’

That was Bill Cinton’s response also when he was first asked whether Monica went down on him

[remboy]

Just a question, what happened to Hawthorn’s amazing culture that made them the greatest team ever? Looks like that’s been shot to pieces.

[Ghost Like]

There does seem to be a bit of a Wild West "hang em high" posse mentality about all this. I agree with Finna and SaintPav that we see what comes from the AFL's inquiry.

I cannot imagine any of us being too happy with an accuser (nameless) from our past claiming we wronged them & that claim being taken as gospel by all concerned without any right to question that accuser.

The need to establish and understand timelines, context, reasons, all involved, player demands, expectations by Club to all players and how much has become hearsay overtime.

I've noted Hodge stating he was advised to avoid Colac and previous bad habits from his life before AFL and of the traps awaiting young AFL players.

I also note Mitchell saying there are non of these issues now at Hawthorn. Interesting, the report came out two weeks ago so did the problem correct itself? Or is he putting it to Clarkson? Either way, the question is, how can he be so sure? He had no idea as a player and Club leader.

Plenty has to play out and hopefully we get some real understanding and clarity.

P.S.: Anyone else think the leaking / timing of this report is a little off? Would it have come out this week if Brisbane had of beaten Geelong? My gut says "No".

[Sanctorum]

Following is a letter I sent to a couple of papers this morning:

"The timing of ABC investigator Russell Jackson's explosive report to the media about the shocking allegations by former Hawthorn FC coach Alastair Carkson and current Brisbane Lions coach Chris Fagan could not have been better, it was surely intended to rain on the AFL 's parade in the midst of its triumphant crescendo to the Grand Final, an event that attracts multi millions of viewers across our nation and all over the world.

As I understand the story, Hawthorn FC conveyed an internal investigation into the club's treatment of its indigenous players to the AFL two weeks ago, presumably under cover of strict confidentiality, considering the serious allegations that this investigation revealed.

It is not clear as yet exactly how the ABC got hold of this report ahead of anyone else in the media, one would assume it would have had to be someone at either Hawthorn FC or the AFL. Once in its possession, the ABC's Russell Jackson set about to delve deeper and presumably worked out which indigenous players at Hawthorn circa 2012-2016 it may have been - not so difficult as there were only 7 in total, 4 of whom were superstars.

By far the most horrible, shocking and devastating quote in the ABCs report, and incredibly damaging to the reputations of Clarkson, Fagan and Burt, was the statement by a player: "He told me to kill my unborn kid!!" 

It would be interesting to know if that incendiary quote is proven to be correct, or was it a case of the reporter posing the question: "you were told to kill your unborn kid?" and the player responding in the affirmative.
 
I'm not sure that the AFL's independent investigation "by an eminent KC" is the best way to get to the bottom of this story, and believe that this warrants nothing less than a full Judicial Inquiry by the Human Rights Commission with full powers to question witnesses under oath. The reputational stakes for everyone concerned could not be greater."

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Where once upon a time "our" ABC could always be trusted to report newsworthy events, this is sadly no longer the case, since it was taken over by the Greens left-wing activists posing as objective journalists. In recent years they have had to pay out millions of dollars in legal costs and payments for damages to individuals they unlawfully maligned. The ABC champions "trial by media"......they appear to wear this as a badge of honour!

Russell Jackson may well be proven entirely right, and if so it will cause irreparable damage to the fine reputations of Clarkson, Fagan and Burt that will haunt them for the rest of their lives, and rightly so.

But if conversely these allegations are proved wrong, I hate to think of the size of the damages pay-outs that will be awarded to the maligned parties - in the ballpark of $10-20 million, all paid for by the Australian taxpayers!

I tend to think that this story will go down as even bigger than the Essendon doping scandal - the racist aspect alone makes it far more potent.

[SaintPav]

Holding off on a big story implies media collusion.

Pfft. That never happens.