The draw

[cwrcyn]

Here's the top 10 teams and how many games they played against top 8 teams

12 St Kilda
11 Melbourne, Carlton
10 Bulldogs
9 Collingwood
8 Richmond, Dockers, Sydney, Brisbane, Geelong

[desertsaint]

to the afl's delight we came 10th again, and they can shaft us all over again in 2023, facilitating an easier path to finals for the big clubs. again. we carry the weight of the afl on our small shoulders.

[longtimesaint]

The other critical element is the teams that you play twice.
StKilda played 4 of the top 6 teams twice and the other team was Hawthorn who is a fairly good middle tier team.
Compare that to Geelong a preliminary finalist in 2021 who played the bottom and second bottom twice.
Not only 4 wins but huge difference in percentage.

[longtimesaint]

The other critical element is the teams that you play twice.
StKilda played 4 of the top 6 teams twice and the other team was Hawthorn who is a fairly good middle tier team.
Compare that to Geelong a preliminary finalist in 2021 who played the bottom and second bottom twice.
Not only 4 wins but huge difference in percentage.

[cwrcyn]

Here are the same teams and how many times they played the bottom 3 teams

3 Melbourne, St Kilda, Bulldogs
4 Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond, Dockers, Sydney
5 Geelong

So, Geelong only got to play the top 8 teams 8 times, yet they got to play the bottom 3 teams 5 times

How would the Saints have gone with Geelong's draw??? Hmmmm

[cwrcyn]

So the cats got a 6 game advantage over us

[Ghost Like]

The draw / fixture / money spinner is the AFL's biggest and greatest conundrum. It's their albatross. The best spin doctor cannot call it transparent.

Whilst the AFL refuse to split the competition into two OR genuinely create it on 6/6/6 with each playing those from the previous season twice OR every team playing each other for the first 17 rounds (aletrnating home ground years) then play the 5 in your 6/6/6 it will forever be a joke!

OR

Simply a 17 round year but Mr Foxtel will say no to the price & the AFL will say "We can't be doing that if we cannot get the dollars."

[cwrcyn]

Geelong played 9 games against teams in the top half of the ladder and 13 games against teams in the bottom half of the ladder
St Kilda had the reverse, playing 13 games against teams in the top half of the ladder, and 9 games against teams in the bottom half of the ladder

[chook23]

Geelong played 9 games against teams in the top half of the ladder and 13 games against teams in the bottom half of the ladder
St Kilda had the reverse, playing 13 games against teams in the top half of the ladder, and 9 games against teams in the bottom half of the ladder

have to take into account which section your in

[SaintPav]

This analysis needs to use last year’s final 8, not this year’s.

[Killa]

Plus, of those we played twice, we travelled to Brisbane, Sydney and Fremantle (all finalists)

It was not as if we played Collingwood or Richmond twice, so at Docklands and the MCG (so not having to travel)

So our Draw had a double negative

That said, you have to win games wherever

A couple of points

Buckley, the former Collingwood Coach had us outperforming this season and speculating on our start

As he mentions, with Howard, Battle, Wilkie and Sinclair our defence was in a good space - which continued

The difference he highlights is the returns from King, Membrey and Higgins and speculated why

More focus from opposition?

When we beat some sides, our goal scorers were down to King and Higgins

But Higgins got concussed

Buckley may be onto something

We need more goal scoring spread - including from our mids (how many goals does Ross have from how many games?)

On the AFL, they had a line of credit courtesy of the impact of the Pandemic (which continues to impact)

So they need to repair their Balance Sheet

And guess which “blockbuster” Clubs are relied on for that repair (in Melbourne)

Not St Kilda (and Docklands)

[Ghost Like]

Plus, of those we played twice, we travelled to Brisbane, Sydney and Fremantle (all finalists)

It was not as if we played Collingwood or Richmond twice, so at Docklands and the MCG (so not having to travel)

So our Draw had a double negative

That said, you have to win games wherever

A couple of points

Buckley, the former Collingwood Coach had us outperforming this season and speculating on our start

As he mentions, with Howard, Battle, Wilkie and Sinclair our defence was in a good space - which continued

The difference he highlights is the returns from King, Membrey and Higgins and speculated why

More focus from opposition?

When we beat some sides, our goal scorers were down to King and Higgins

But Higgins got concussed

Buckley may be onto something

We need more goal scoring spread - including from our mids (how many goals does Ross have from how many games?)

On the AFL, they had a line of credit courtesy of the impact of the Pandemic (which continues to impact)

So they need to repair their Balance Sheet

And guess which “blockbuster” Clubs are relied on for that repair (in Melbourne)

Not St Kilda (and Docklands)

I'll give you all until the rubbish about the pandemic impact. The impact on the draw, of the draw and for the AFL was at levels well before the pandemic and post the Spanish Flu. A bit like a reliance on tobacco revenue, the less who smoke, the higher the tax...yes, it's all about the balance sheet, nothing to do with fairness or the health of the system.

[Yorkeys]

The paradox for the AFL is if your draw produces a lot of mismatches, eg Geelong v North at Kardinia who watches. Before half way Essendon, Adelaide and Port (others?) were not making finals. Lot of blowouts.
Close contests put bums on seats, eyes on pay tv.
All very well to get Geelong and the quota of interstate sides into the 8 on a regular basis, but what about the comp as a whole and commercial value of H&A vs Finals.
It would be in AFL 's interests to give us a fighting chance.

[Beno88]

The fixture stinks. Always will unless it's 34 games or 17 games.

Since the introduction of the top 6, middle 6, bottom 6 format, St Kilda have been ranked in the 5 hardest draws every season since 2017 (excluding 2020) - yet we've only been ranked in the top 6 once.

Only once have we played the wooden spooner twice in that period.

There's been some weird "quirks" of our fixturing in recent years.

Only three of our last 20 matches vs South Australian teams have been in Melbourne.

We played Collingwood 11 times between 2008-2011. We've played them 11 times since.

Or the good old Kardinia Park stat... St Kilda, Melbourne, Bulldogs & North have played at Kardinia park 26 times in the last decade, while Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn & Richmond have combined for 6 matches at KP vs Geelong.

[CURLY]

The fixture stinks. Always will unless it's 34 games or 17 games.

Since the introduction of the top 6, middle 6, bottom 6 format, St Kilda have been ranked in the 5 hardest draws every season since 2017 (excluding 2020) - yet we've only been ranked in the top 6 once.

Only once have we played the wooden spooner twice in that period.

There's been some weird "quirks" of our fixturing in recent years.

Only three of our last 20 matches vs South Australian teams have been in Melbourne.

We played Collingwood 11 times between 2008-2011. We've played them 11 times since.

Or the good old Kardinia Park stat... St Kilda, Melbourne, Bulldogs & North have played at Kardinia park 26 times in the last decade, while Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn & Richmond have combined for 6 matches at KP vs Geelong.

Yep the AFL really looks after us.

[The_Dud]

Any suggestions on how the AFL should know the finishing order of the ladder for the upcoming season before they do the draw?

[Yorkeys]

Any suggestions on how the AFL should know the finishing order of the ladder for the upcoming season before they do the draw?

Look at the previous year?

[SaintPav]

Since the introduction of the top 6, middle 6, bottom 6 format, St Kilda have been ranked in the 5 hardest draws every season since 2017 (excluding 2020) - yet we've only been ranked in the top 6 once.

Only once have we played the wooden spooner twice in that period.

[Templar]

We should file a class action against the AFL?

As paying members in a professional sporting competition one has an expectation of a level of fairness.

Certain clubs might have a logistical advantage but one wouldn't expect administrators to manipulate the draw to bestow further advantage/disadvantage to clubs.

The draw should not be manipulated - that is cheating.

In a fair draw each team plays each other: once at home and once away. In perpetuity.

It doesn't matter how many rounds there are because the rotation can simply roll over, so that it evens out after two or three seasons.

[The_Dud]

Any suggestions on how the AFL should know the finishing order of the ladder for the upcoming season before they do the draw?

Look at the previous year?

The Pies went 17th to 4th, Freo 11th to 5th, Tigers 12th to 7th.

While Esendon went 8th to 15th, West Coast 9th to 17th, GWS 7th to 16th, Port 2nd to 11th.

[CURLY]

The draw cannot be even or fair but it shouldn't disadvantage particular clubs each year. The fact we have to go to Geelong each year while say Collingwood don't shows the AFL are biased and are not attempting to be fair. To say the draw doesn't have any effect on end of seaon ladder positioning is head in sand stuff.

[groupie1]

Geelong played 9 games against teams in the top half of the ladder and 13 games against teams in the bottom half of the ladder
St Kilda had the reverse, playing 13 games against teams in the top half of the ladder, and 9 games against teams in the bottom half of the ladder

Yeah
f*** Geelong.

Let Dangerfield do an ACL in the prelim, they go on to lose by a point to the swans, and they're older players fall of a cliff faster than they anticipate.

[D.B.Cooper]

The draw cannot be even or fair but it shouldn't disadvantage particular clubs each year. The fact we have to go to Geelong each year while say Collingwood don't shows the AFL are biased and are not attempting to be fair. To say the draw doesn't have any effect on end of seaon ladder positioning is head in sand stuff.

Is this why you are known as "Cryin Curly"?

[perfectionist]

Another "Draw" ladder, on which we have moved from last to fourth over the years:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-26/ ... /101366312

[D.B.Cooper]

Here's the top 10 teams and how many games they played against top 8 teams

12 St Kilda
11 Melbourne, Carlton
10 Bulldogs
9 Collingwood
8 Richmond, Dockers, Sydney, Brisbane, Geelong

2022 top 10 or 2021 top 10?
Why did you use top 10 and not top 8?