He's Only 22

[perfectionist]

A background problem is that he is about 50% fit enough to play AFL. He starts puffing in the first quarter after two leads. He has a congenital curvature of the spine which is not going to get any better. I don't know what effect that has on his capacity to get stronger and fitter. But these days, he needs to be able to run up and down the ground 100 times during a game and still be able to kick for goal from 50 at the end.

[Vortex]

There is no way to sugar coat it and nor should it be. Cost us the game, has cost us several games in his short career including a few this year. Started the year well but has been a genuine liability for most of it.

[skeptic]

Not that I want to defend the performance… but one thing I will say, at least no matter how ugly it gets he keeps trying.

Presents to contest after contest… even after the third or fourth miss he got to contests, took a big mark and immediately went back and took responsibility for the shot.

If he gets the kicking sorted again… he’ll be unstoppable.

I get that ppl are frustrated… I am to but one cannot fault his endeavour and effort IMO.

No question we persevere with him

[flack]

We have a reasonable expectation that ANY young person playing in the AFL should be able to kick set shot goals from within the arc. Some take longer that others to develop the accuracy and some take longer to get the distance. For all his training Max has issues and not one coach has helped him to overcome them. Do we look at the coaches? As Wally mentions above, Lloyd offered his assistance, but obviously ego gets in the way. So we are stuck with coaches who can't correct his problems either physical or mental and we will have a long time in the back seats because someone's ego can't be bruised. Is it Ratts or his line coach? Sort it for next season and instil an attitude of effort (for the fans) before the next pre-season.

[Teflon]

King had a poor night for sure but IMO he is our future & will get better with time

Spot on
King least of our worries
If he couldn’t get near it as a forward aka McCartin I’d be saying he’s a spud
We have much bigger issues than King
Coach thinks his kicking technique is fine and they have it sorted within the clubs experts WTF?

[shanegrambeau]

Kept trying.

respect.

Must be humiliating.

But you do wonder, when the commentators are saying stuff like, 'leaning back' or 'too close to man on the mark' ..and even the TV Fox Camera team know to zoom in on the ball as he tumbles and spins it in his hands as we walks in, you kinda go, 'urghhh!???' in your head.

so what does a coach do?

Seconds?

[The_Dud]

BTW

Marcus Windhager is 19yo

And played about 10 games - he took responsibility of shutting down one of the games best - and did it!!!

Age at that level is a piss poor excuse

…and he missed an easy set shot in the last quarter

[Teflon]

There is no way to sugar coat it and nor should it be. Cost us the game, has cost us several games in his short career including a few this year. Started the year well but has been a genuine liability for most of it.

Should be delisted not AFL ready ?
Same as Sharman clearly….

[Templar]

You have only got two options:

King
Bruce

Who do you choose?

[Teflon]

Kept trying.

respect.

Must be humiliating.

But you do wonder, when the commentators are saying stuff like, 'leaning back' or 'too close to man on the mark' ..and even the TV Fox Camera team know to zoom in on the ball as he tumbles and spins it in his hands as we walks in, you kinda go, 'urghhh!???' in your head.

so what does a coach do?

Seconds?

So again
IF you are coaching Max and you can see those deficiencies
WTF is our coaching panel doing to help?
It’s clear to me in his presser Ratten bristles when asked if external help could be brought in to help
Brett’s “my way highway” approach, stubbornness to not admit his game plan is outdated (as noted by commentary last night) hurst us
IF anyone with half a brain was coaching you’d be scouting the land for the best possible advice to assist - I wouldn’t care if that was from Genghis Kahn !
Whose our forward coach? Brendan Lade ????? WTF an ok ruck who was suspect at Tigers
Class Brett class

[stkfc1]

There are two ways you can approach goal kicking

1. In hope

Or

2. With intent


I don't see eagle-eyed focus with king. When he's walking in, he looks like he's about to fall over in a heap from fatigue. He's upright, his head is not even over the ball. His facial expression is vague, his eyes lifeless

The spinning of the ball shows nervousness and a lack of belief. As the ball rotates in his hands it's point moves slightly right to left, left to right, so there's no guarantee that when he makes contact withit that it's position is consistent . Also, by spinning the ball it means that it's 50/50 that he makes contact with the side of the ball that has the lace on it. You should never make contact with that side of the ball in a set shot because there's a slight bullge on that side of the ball. You want the flattest contact with the ball as possible.

Spot on. And this is a coaching thing. The coaches have failed King here. It's there job to get his technique right. Over and over again. Until it's robotic. If his technique is sound the confidence will come with it. He's all over the shop, especially the ball twirling. Plugger, Dunstall with the ball in hand, didn't move. Dead straight and the ball mostly stayed that way, going through the big sticks. Why the coaches are not all over him at the breaks if they see it, I don't know. And if he's not listening, then back to the 2s until he does.

[saynta]

What has he kicked in the past two games? 1.10 or 2.10, I have forgotten.

Saw a post on facebook where a guy said that even his mum could have kicked some of them and she's in a wheelchair.

[samoht]

There's plenty of free youtube videos on goalkicking tips ... including some from Matthew Lloyd.

He should keep practising alone, quietly and away from extraneous chatter ... maybe with a couple of team mates to simulate a match scenario ... until he perfects it.
Until it becomes second nature.

Once it is second nature, it is about muscle memory, settling and shutting everything out. It becomes an automatic routine.

The less of a big deal he makes it, the better.

[Teflon]

Bigger issues than King this BF post from Okey subs it up


The way we played with the ball in hand in the first half was more concerning than King’s kicking. King’s kicking is an issue, but that’s on an individual player to work on. The way we play as a collective ultimately comes down to coaching.

We defended the ground well. We tackled. Even when Brisbane were on top in the midfield and around the contest we limited damage, much like we were doing in the first half of the season. We managed to keep their tall forwards quiet.

And yet with ball in hand we were stagnant. Safe. Boring. SLOW. There is a time and a place for it of course, but this style eventually leads to the ball in the hands of a player who will take the ‘safe’ option of bombing it to an outnumber down the line and turning it over. Often ignoring the numbers around them, ready for draw and handball.

This whole second half of the season has seen a conservative, safe style creeping in and it does not suit us AT ALL. Foot skills are simply not our strength, so the mistakes kill us. We become an easy team to play against. I would HATE playing in our forward line when the ball comes in on your head and you’re outnumbered constantly.

2nd half, we moved the ball so much better. More run. Far more handball. Aggression with the ball. And look how it turned.

The concern is that after the game Ratten says we didn’t defend as well as we should’ve, and that was the issue rather than goal scoring. Are you kidding? We kept a high scoring team to 80 points, and we only gave ourselves a chance to win when we attacked.

We have no method. And our players completely lack confidence to take any form of risk. And that’s the greatest risk of all.

MAX - well that’s two games this season he has cost us a win - the difference between finals and no finals. Port Adelaide (0.7) and Brisbane (0.5).

But the positive is he gave himself the chances to win it for us. He was absolutely harassed, held, dragged, chopped in the first half but found a way to work into it in the 2nd half and managed 5 shots on goal for the half. He has also stood up and won us other games this season (such as the Richmond game earlier this year).

For a 21 year old to have a 50-odd goal year and be ranked in the top 5 forwards in the competition is still bloody exciting. Imagine what he will be able to do in the next few years when he:
A) deals with the mental side of goal kicking and clarifies his technique, like many forwards have managed to do over time
B) becomes stronger
C) learns to impact the game more when the ball is not getting delivered well

The guy is a freak. In a few years he will be kicking 80 in a season. Best prospect the saints have had in a decade, which to be fair isn’t hard

Max will be ok. Back Winx in. Would’ve been nice for him to kick us into finals, but we aren’t winning anything this year with far bigger systemic issues.

Give him time to figure it out. He can deliver us a flag, I really believe that. And we can look back on these formative years and appreciate how far he has come. Just 21.

[Saintmike65]

BTW

Marcus Windhager is 19yo

And played about 10 games - he took responsibility of shutting down one of the games best - and did it!!!

Age at that level is a piss poor excuse

Agree..if you’re good enough you’re old enough!!
It’s not Max’s kicking action that’s the problem, it’s his lack of a set routine.
Even in his one and only TAC cup game he kicked 8 goals 6, 2 out on the full and one that didn’t make the distance!

[spert]

They should get King to train with Sharman who is an excellent kick for goal- Max might learn a few things.

[The_Dud]

People keep mentioning the ‘games he cost us’ but fail to mention the games he won us, like kicking 6.0 against Adelaide.

Pretty sure Buddy kicked 2.11 one day. He just needs some confidence and help between the ears, a lot of pressure has been put on him to be the main man since almost day 1.

[scallopsroe]

Max rucked in our forward line during the third quarter, he gave a terrific effort and kept the Lions defence under pressure. He rattled them. What I disliked, from where I sat behind the Lockett end goals, was our forward line consistently being "sucked up the field" to the Lions forward area. When we created a turnover there was no Saints player in our half of the ground to provide an exit point. Hence the slow movement followed by a long bomb.
Being caught out of position has been a strategic problem in the second half of this season and needs to be addressed for 2023. AFL is a running game, you must be fit and capable of delivering by hand and foot.
Freo exploited our lack of composure and failure to concentrate on the game. When you're physically tired mistakes will happen, this is our weakness and must be solved by our coaches. Enright has certainly tightened up our defence, questions remain over the other line coaches.

[saynta]

From the hun.

"SOMETHING’S GOTTA CHANGE FOR MAX

YOU have to admire St Kilda coach Brett Ratten’s defence of young gun Max King after his 0.5 went a long way to all but closing the door on the club’s finals hopes.

He wasn’t the only Saint to spray the Sherrin, but he was the worst offender.

King will be a star, but he has a flaw that if he can’t fix soon, could slow his development from talented young player into a bonafide superstar.

The 22-year-old’s goal kicking technique at times is a massive concern. He gets away with it on occasions, but on nights like Friday, it is painful to watch, especially for Saints fans.

According to a former member of the “Yips Are Getting Bigger Club” in Cam Mooney, King must confront those demons sooner rather than later.

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“He (King) should be an 800-goal-kicker before the end of his career … but he is going to leave 300 goals on the table if he doesn’t get it right,” Mooney said on Fox Footy.

“I can see it in his eyes and in his face. You can see it in his action when he is walking in. You can see his face is almost drained. He was nervous, throwing the ball around.”

Ratten said King worked tirelessly on his craft, with Saints assistant coach and former Hawk great Jarryd Roughead giving him great assistance.

In May last year King asked the club if he could have a private goal-kicking session with his former Haileybury coach and ex-Essendon sharpshooter Matthew Lloyd.

The club told him they wanted him to keep it inhouse, which Ratten said post-game on Friday night wouldn’t change.

But as much belief as the Saints have in their internal teachings, what’s the harm in King speaking to a few other former stars outside the club over the summer months to learn from their experiences.

A chat with Lloyd is an obvious one. Mooney says King could benefit from a postseason coffee with Tom Hawkins, who cured his yips. Or maybe a catch-up with that other Saints’ No.12, Nick Riewoldt.

Or perhaps even a discussion with one of the most accurate kicks in the history of the game, former Saint/Swan Tony Lockett.

Where’s the harm in that?

Wayne Carey was even more brutal on Triple M: “All these guys are willing to help out. If Nick Riewoldt (or) Matty Lloyd’s coming to Max King and the club’s saying ‘No, we don’t want your help’, that’s bordering on stupidity.”

[Wayne42]

King has 8 weeks holiday when the season finishes, what's to stop Max catching up with his old school coach, M.Lloyd, in his holidays and having a chat about goal kicking.
Max could even ask Lloyd what he thinks of the things the Saints brains trust are telling him to do when kicking for goal.

After all, it's Max's career, not Ratten's or Roughy's or Lade's.

[Scollop]

King has 8 weeks holiday when the season finishes, what's to stop Max catching up with his old school coach, M.Lloyd, in his holidays and having a chat about goal kicking.
Max could even ask Lloyd what he thinks of the things the Saints brains trust are telling him to do when kicking for goal.

After all, it's Max's career, not Ratten's or Roughy's or Lade's.

Lloyd will probably be on holidays during that period with his wife and kids

[Teflon]

King has 8 weeks holiday when the season finishes, what's to stop Max catching up with his old school coach, M.Lloyd, in his holidays and having a chat about goal kicking.
Max could even ask Lloyd what he thinks of the things the Saints brains trust are telling him to do when kicking for goal.

After all, it's Max's career, not Ratten's or Roughy's or Lade's.

Lloyd will probably be on holidays during that period with his wife and kids

Surely King could go with them ?

[D.B.Cooper]

POSITIVE
Getting set shots 20-35mt out on slight angles against an AA standard defender. Was sound on the lead, big pack mark looked dangerous.

NEGATIVE
Missed set shots any U16 key forward would expect to nail 9/10 times. Just not good enough for a professional highly paid AFL forward.

The club needs to address this in the pre-season as it is a critical football issue. King is a good field kick so the base is there.

Buckets was one of the worst kicks I’d seen but with hard work and a routine he became competent and reliable.

No reason King can’t become a very good kick for goal, just needs to happen in 2023.

[therabbitinthehat]

this narrative is reminding me of early to middle career riewoldt

[Wayne42]

this narrative is reminding me of early to middle career riewoldt

He was a Yip Man himself.