Is Billings a part of the club’s future?

[B.M]

Also,

You cannot compare disposals of a HF to a Mid to a HB to a Key Back to a running back etc…

They are different positions

Last week Long played in Billings role and got 5 possessions

[saintspremiers]

JB is running in quicksand. He doesn’t run fast enough. A little man without pace. Trade.

2019 averaged 25 disposals a game
2021 and 2020 down to 20 each year

[Scollop]

Also,

You cannot compare disposals of a HF to a Mid to a HB to a Key Back to a running back etc…

They are different positions

Last week Long played in Billings role and got 5 possessions

It’s not about individuals. It’s a team game. Long might have 15 touches if his team mates used him more but really…does it matter? What do they say about continuously offering a lead? What happens when Long runs to space? An opposition player has to run after him don’t they? It provides a gap for another Saints player to run into and we create overlap and run.

There are players getting 20-25 touches some weeks and they have insignificant impact on a game. I agree that 5 possessions isn’t enough but the game has gone beyond just looking at disposal numbers. Long laid 7 tackles and 6 of these were tackles inside our forward line.

Longy has explosive speed and the ability to run down players. Longy hits hard early and there’s perceived pressure with opposition players fumbling and rushing their disposal because they hear footsteps.

Benny made an immediate impact when he came on and there were times in the game that West Coast nearly took it away from us. His pressure and his ability to hurt the opposition every time he sticks a tackle is why you need players like that instead of some softcock who can’t apply pressure.

He laid a few legal bumps that don’t count at all on the pleb fanbook stat sheet, but they count towards a team softening up the opposition and making the opposition sore and momentarily unable to even up numbers at contests.

The goal that Longy kicked epitomises why he should be in the side. It was a chase down and tackle followed by a crucial goal in the third quarter. It was team lifting for us and just deflating for them.

Crouch got a lot of footy against West Coast, but I reckon half his possessions add little value. He’s a totally different player to Long, but I just want to highlight how basic pleb-fanboy-disposal-stats are very misleading at times.

The value Crouch provides is more to do with his ability to defend in tight and tackle rather than what he provides with his possession count. Up until half time he was second on the stat sheet but he had minimal impact regarding score involvement in my opinion. His work rate and his ability to keep running and keep defending at stoppages is why I gave him votes….as well as that nice goal he kicked

[B.M]

Would you rather someone chasing and pressuring their opponents when they have the ball

Or some getting the ball?

[B.M]

BTW

Jack Billings ain’t that small

I suggest stand next to him whilst he’s in footy gear

Over six foot and 80kgs

[skeptic]

Hasn’t he come off no pre season and a long term injury?

Not sure he was ever at peak fitness

That excuse again is it?

I’ll preload the next one - he plays in the hardest role on the field so of course there’ll be inconsistency

Then it’s - opposition players really focus on him because he’s so dangerous hence he regularly gets shut out

[meher baba]

Sigh. More stupid attacks on JB. If he had been taken at pick #33 rather than #3 he’d be a fan favourite.

He’s the least of our problems ATM. In most of the games he’s played this year, he’s gone pretty well: plenty of involvement, he has won the ball in contests, passed accurately to players in better positions, and kicked some goals himself. If our midfield was more of an attacking threat, he’d look better: as would Hill. Even A grade outside players are pretty easy to stifle when the opposition knows that they are in no great danger if the ball is turned back inside.

Perhaps because he isn’t 100% fit, Billings has been drawn towards taking the safer options this year rather than going for the 50/50 plays that would open the opposition up. But he doesn’t really need to do this with Sinclair and Hill trying to do the same thing. He seems to have played a bit further back in his last couple of games and that’s probably a good move for him until he feels able to play more creatively (if that ever happens again).

Early draft picks tend either to succeed or bomb out completely. It’s comparatively rare for them to develop into FAQ players. Billings is unusual in this respect. But, after all this time, it doesn’t matter one iota where he was picked in the draft. Fans really need to get over that.

[skeptic]

I don’t think anybody still cares that he was an early pick

Just the fact that we’ve seen how good he can be and that he doesn’t hit the mark often enough IMO

[older saint]

yes

[meher baba]

I don’t think anybody still cares that he was an early pick

Just the fact that we’ve seen how good he can be and that he doesn’t hit the mark often enough IMO

Of course they care. I constantly read on SS and BF comments that Billings “should” have been a star, that he has let us down, etc, etc. And the level of anger directed towards him is quite extraordinary.

It’s because he was pick #3 and was chosen ahead of the Bont.

Many fans seem to perceive recruiting as a sort of accounting exercise, with draft picks as the assets we invest and thr performance of players as a return on that investment. It’s really silly because, at a practical level, once a player is recruited, it doesn’t matter in the slightest what pick he was taken at.

[Ghost Like]

I hope he is and look forward to a successful future as we build around King, Marshall, Steele, Sinclair and Wilkie with young kids like Windy, NWM, Owens, Peris etc & FAs / RFAs.

Those who don't see him a part of the Club's future, I'd be interested to know what value / price they see him getting.

[saynta]

We have done really well in the past with trades.

Hill for steak knives Acres. Most on here now prefer Acres it would seem.

Russell Greene for two nuffies in King and Scott. Brilliant.....not

Ian Stewart for Billy Barrett. 'nuff said

Plugger for SFA. I will go to my grave still having nightmares over that foolishness.

Lovett for a FRDP. f*** me.

I could go on as the list of Dud saints trades is f****** endless.

What makes punters on here think the future is any different.

I t turns out that the grass is never greener on the other side of the fence as far as the saints are concerned.

Billings and Gresham are keepers AFAIC.

[Vortex]

I hope he is and look forward to a successful future as we build around King, Marshall, Steele, Sinclair and Wilkie with young kids like Windy, NWM, Owens, Peris etc & FAs / RFAs.

Those who don't see him a part of the Club's future, I'd be interested to know what value / price they see him getting.

If we can get a 2nd rounder you'd jump at it but isn't Jack a free agent so doesn't he walk without us getting anything in return? . Time for a fresh start at a new club and time for the club to try a new player. It's gotten stale.

[skeptic]

I don’t think anybody still cares that he was an early pick

Just the fact that we’ve seen how good he can be and that he doesn’t hit the mark often enough IMO

Of course they care. I constantly read on SS and BF comments that Billings “should” have been a star, that he has let us down, etc, etc. And the level of anger directed towards him is quite extraordinary.

It’s because he was pick #3 and was chosen ahead of the Bont.

Many fans seem to perceive recruiting as a sort of accounting exercise, with draft picks as the assets we invest and thr performance of players as a return on that investment. It’s really silly because, at a practical level, once a player is recruited, it doesn’t matter in the slightest what pick he was taken at.

It’s been 8 years

I would bet most opinions are formed based on having seen what he’s capable of vs his baseline standard

Billings has had a number of patches where he has had a good first half of the season or run of 5-6 games where he is consistently good or better

I don’t remember him having too many really good entire seasons period.

[shanegrambeau]

I don’t think anybody still cares that he was an early pick

Just the fact that we’ve seen how good he can be and that he doesn’t hit the mark often enough IMO

Of course they care. I constantly read on SS and BF comments that Billings “should” have been a star, that he has let us down, etc, etc. And the level of anger directed towards him is quite extraordinary.

It’s because he was pick #3 and was chosen ahead of the Bont.

Many fans seem to perceive recruiting as a sort of accounting exercise, with draft picks as the assets we invest and thr performance of players as a return on that investment. It’s really silly because, at a practical level, once a player is recruited, it doesn’t matter in the slightest what pick he was taken at.

It’s been 8 years

I would bet most opinions are formed based on having seen what he’s capable of vs his baseline standard

Billings has had a number of patches where he has had a good first half of the season or run of 5-6 games where he is consistently good or better

I don’t remember him having too many really good entire seasons period.

Billings has skill - above average, i would guess. Plus he looks kinda preppy..private school boy...

These types are gonna get the fans angry quick when they don't perform.

I thought - or was hoping JB might be the next Jack Sinclair at the beginning of this year. When I joined this forum many were bagging Sinclair, saying he is not best 22.
I thought he would be really good...well done Shane! lol

Now I thought it was JBs turn, but then, twang goes the hammy again...and then he takes a while ..and I get wind of his previous injuries and soft-tissue injuries in general. Saints were kinda going well and started to wonder if he could have enough game time and now the back goes.

He could be like Ross - nobody might want him, so he stays, and has a very servicable 2023?

But I wouldn't be surprised if he goes or even retires depending on teh back situation. All backs are different of course. HOlla has a dodgy one, seems to be going OK, Bytel had one, and he's firing but he isn't the player he was. We saw Carlise and his back was crook - he labored on, but wasn(t as mobile and strong at teh end - getting outmarked etc.

Good luck JB...he must be quite bummed out at this point....so I'll just be a sensitive fan...no I won't ..

[saynta]

From saints.com.au

"Ratten is optimistic Jack Billings will return to action in the coming weeks after the 26-year-old sustained a back injury in the opening minutes of the 28-point win over the Eagles.

"I think we'll see him (again this season), I don't know what the timeline is, though. He had to sit on a plane for three and a bit hours. He's had some work done on the back and he's pretty sore," he said.

"Hopefully he responds pretty quickly and next week we'll see him running around and start the process of playing again. But if it doesn't, we'll have to just take it slowly."

St Kilda is currently level with the eighth-placed Western Bulldogs, but outside the eight on percentage with a month to play.

After falling from 8-3 to 10-8, the Saints must continue winning if they are going to return to September.

They face a brutal road ahead with Geelong at GMHBA Stadium and Brisbane and Sydney at Marvel Stadium to come after Saturday's twilight fixture against the Hawks."

[Yorkeys]

Speaking of parts of the club's future, if one was NWM, had been dropped when the side is playing poorly, seen Marcus blossom, seen the strength and endeavour of Mitchito, would you not feel as though you had been given a chance ahead of them and not capitalised. Perhaps have made the decision to get back in by weight of performance rather than potential and youth. Gets to a stage where you have to make a position your own or more hungry players will go past you no matter raw skills. I hope his advisors give him good counsel rather than blow smoke towards him.

[happy feet]

Yes he had no pre-season, but what I don’t understand is if he is battling injury why not spend the time to get him completely right.

[happy feet]

Yes he had no pre-season, but what I don’t understand is if he is battling injury why not spend the time to get him completely right.

[Ghost Like]

Yes he had no pre-season, but what I don’t understand is if he is battling injury why not spend the time to get him completely right.

May I suggest desperation of ladder position this season and the previous ten. He's our flagship of failure according to some but he's ultimately only one player who relies on and deserves to be part of a genuinely good team.

[Teflon]

Would you rather someone chasing and pressuring their opponents when they have the ball

Or some getting the ball?

Works for Dan Butler for last 2 years

[B.M]

He’s kicked a few goals along the way

[B.M]

Chris Judd has told Triple M's Hot Breakfast that half forward is “clearly” the hardest position to play in modern AFL footy.

Conversely, the two time Brownlow medallist says half back is the easiest.

“The opposition are all about creating what’s called a plus 1 in their defence. So they have the extra number back there,” Judd said on Triple M’s Hot Breakfast.

“The half forward is invariably competing against his direct opponent and that winger that is dropping back as well.”

“So at times he’s got to push up defensively and then sprint back and even up the numbers. So it’s incredibly hard from a work rate perspective. Then you’re expected to kick goals and do a lot of defensive 50 stuff as well.”

Luke Darcy agreed with Juddy: “Just the fact you’ve got to win the ball and turn around, where as the defenders have got it all in front of them.”

[Vortex]

Chris Judd has told Triple M's Hot Breakfast that half forward is “clearly” the hardest position to play in modern AFL footy.

Conversely, the two time Brownlow medallist says half back is the easiest.

“The opposition are all about creating what’s called a plus 1 in their defence. So they have the extra number back there,” Judd said on Triple M’s Hot Breakfast.

“The half forward is invariably competing against his direct opponent and that winger that is dropping back as well.”

“So at times he’s got to push up defensively and then sprint back and even up the numbers. So it’s incredibly hard from a work rate perspective. Then you’re expected to kick goals and do a lot of defensive 50 stuff as well.”

Luke Darcy agreed with Juddy: “Just the fact you’ve got to win the ball and turn around, where as the defenders have got it all in front of them.”

It's great support for the postion on the ground where you learn as a junior that HF is the postion where you try to hide tbe weakest player on the ground.

As a HB if you let the ball go past you it's probably a goal.

[B.M]

Junior footy is not senior footy

You attack from HB and defend at HF in the modern game