Long, Byrnes, Coops and Lienert

[skeptic]

Fair to say that none of the above are established in the top 22, all have their fair share of critics, all need to continue fighting for their spots... but I gotta say, I like them all.

Long needs to get more possessions. Lovely disposal but bad decision making... but constantly gets around it, makes things happen, ferocious attack on the ball and the man.
I reckon we play better as a team when he’s in.

Lienert - tough, presents, attacks the contest, versatile, consistent. Prone to making some bad blunders. Lacks a bit of composure, unclear as to here he beat fits.

Coops - Decent mark. Consistently goes up in the contest whether he’s the target or if the opponent is bigger/stronger... I love his attack. Has a real competitive streak about him which I like. Don’t know that I love what they’re doing with him but he seems to lack a bit of utility for a mid sized player and perhaps putting him on a HBF is there way or teaching him to be more of a play maker, developing other strings to his bow... ultimately I think he’s better up forward but it’s worth persevering with for now

Byrnes - kid runs and IMO is a lot more composed and cleaner with the ball than he gets credit for. Has an odd but surprisingly laser’ish kicking style. I want to see him play a bit more. 18 touches today... will improve immensely if he can add tackling more effectively to his repertoire.

[Teflon]

Not sold on Byrnes

[Trev from the Bush]

All did their job.

I reckon Sharman has learnt more about football in two games down back than he has in 2 years up forward.

[Teflon]

Sharmans a forward and he turns like queen mary down back
Forward line and last kick into it still dysfunctional today
We still had to scrounge scrape and pressure for our goals….
I’d like to see Sharman get an extended run up forward

[bangaulegend]

All contributed in some way but nothing special IMO. Team effort overall won the day

[B.M]

All GOPs

If they play they need a specific role

They are not playmakers

[skeptic]

Sharmans a forward and he turns like queen mary down back
Forward line and last kick into it still dysfunctional today
We still had to scrounge scrape and pressure for our goals….
I’d like to see Sharman get an extended run up forward

No doubt he’s a better forward then defender.

The criticism from many is that he’s too one dimensional, mark/shot style hence I think the idea is have him work up the ground to get from contest to contest, set up plays, run around more etc
The player I’m thinking of his Justin Plapp... very one dimensional undersized forward at this level when he started but was a really decent utility albeit at the lower level. If he makes it, it’ll be as a forward.

[Bowey Boy]

Lienert is a good ordinary player in a role where we have no other good ordinary players.

[Wayne42]

Lienert is a good ordinary player in a role where we have no other good ordinary players.

At a club that has way to many good ordinary players to succeed.

[bangaulegend]

You would think a win against West Coast on their own dung heap would fill you full of optimism & hope for the future so why do I feel so flat ? We are still a remote chance of making the 8 but IMO we are further from a flag than we were last year if that makes any sense . Others teams have improved & we have stagnated or even dropped down a position or 2 why?

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Not sure we have gone backwards we have recruited Windy,Owens,NWM & Hayes not to mention will have Coff back next year I believe our list is on the improve we just need two of these to turn into guns & away we go!

[Vortex]

All ordinary players with too many deficiencies. Can't see them developing beyond current levels. Long is especially very ordinary and to argue pressure is what he brings is like arguing Kent should play AFL. Time to move on from Long I'm afraid.

Sharman and Byrnes won't be anything more than depth players at this stage. Lienert is depth too.

Fringe players that looked ordinary against the wooden spooners.

Need to keep turning the list over.

[Scollop]

Other clubs bring in young rookie draftees and SANFL/WAFL level or VFL level players and turn them into regular and important contributors

St Kilda play them too early, then drop them, then bring them in here and there and then drop them again when we have losses or when all senior players are available

In other words...we don't know how to develop footballers at St Kilda

[meher baba]

Other clubs bring in young rookie draftees and SANFL/WAFL level or VFL level players and turn them into regular and important contributors

St Kilda play them too early, then drop them, then bring them in here and there and then drop them again when we have losses or when all senior players are available

In other words...we don't know how to develop footballers at St Kilda

I don’t know about us playing anyone too early: that’s an unusual criticism on a forum on which “for god’s sake get some games into the kids” is a favourite mantra.

For the 17 or so years on which I’ve posted on here, I’ve seen many posters collectively wet themselves about mediocre players who have been struggling to get a game in the firsts and who never ultimately make it. Byrnes, Sharman, Highmore, Connolly and Bytel are just the latest generation.

I think most of these guys struggle to get a game because they simply aren’t ever going to be that good. Compare them to the likes of Wilkie, Sinclair, Marshall, Battle and - fingers crossed - Windhager and Owen (I won’t include NWM because he was a first round draft pick). These guys demonstrated lots of raw talent from day one.

My impression is that you can’t generally coach 18+ year olds to have vastly superior skills or physical attributes such as pace. You can improve their ability to read a game and their teamwork, and increase their strength and stamina, but that’s the extent of it. For a player like Sinclair, who already had all the skills but was a bit rough around the edges, that can lift him to elite level. For a Long or Byrnes, that can only lift them to GOP level.

I rate Sharman a bit higher as he has some serious skills. But he desperately needs to bulk up.

In conclusion, I think the answer isn’t better development but better recruiting. We need to find more Wilkies, Marshall’s and Sinclairs and less of the GOP variety.

[Vortex]

Other clubs bring in young rookie draftees and SANFL/WAFL level or VFL level players and turn them into regular and important contributors

St Kilda play them too early, then drop them, then bring them in here and there and then drop them again when we have losses or when all senior players are available

In other words...we don't know how to develop footballers at St Kilda

I don’t know about us playing anyone too early: that’s an unusual criticism on a forum on which “for god’s sake get some games into the kids” is a favourite mantra.

For the 17 or so years on which I’ve posted on here, I’ve seen many posters collectively wet themselves about mediocre players who have been struggling to get a game in the firsts and who never ultimately make it. Byrnes, Sharman, Highmore, Connolly and Bytel are just the latest generation.

I think most of these guys struggle to get a game because they simply aren’t ever going to be that good. Compare them to the likes of Wilkie, Sinclair, Marshall, Battle and - fingers crossed - Windhager and Owen (I won’t include NWM because he was a first round draft pick). These guys demonstrated lots of raw talent from day one.

My impression is that you can’t generally coach 18+ year olds to have vastly superior skills or physical attributes such as pace. You can improve their ability to read a game and their teamwork, and increase their strength and stamina, but that’s the extent of it. For a player like Sinclair, who already had all the skills but was a bit rough around the edges, that can lift him to elite level. For a Long or Byrnes, that can only lift them to GOP level.

I rate Sharman a bit higher as he has some serious skills. But he desperately needs to bulk up.

In conclusion, I think the answer isn’t better development but better recruiting. We need to find more Wilkies, Marshall’s and Sinclairs and less of the GOP variety.

Play the kids, play the kids, play the kids.

Kids play if they are good enough.

100% bang on with regards to better recruiting. That's the missing piece of our puzzle and it is the hardest. 18 clubs scrapping for talent in a very thin talent pool which was completely destroyed by the Pademic including all of the 2nd tier comps around the country currently in disarray after having the gutz stripped out of thier resource's.

Disagree with Sharman, his agility is very poor and won't make it as a mid sized forward, maybe that is why they are trilling him as a run and punch defender.

[spert]

Other clubs bring in young rookie draftees and SANFL/WAFL level or VFL level players and turn them into regular and important contributors

St Kilda play them too early, then drop them, then bring them in here and there and then drop them again when we have losses or when all senior players are available

In other words...we don't know how to develop footballers at St Kilda

I don’t know about us playing anyone too early: that’s an unusual criticism on a forum on which “for god’s sake get some games into the kids” is a favourite mantra.

For the 17 or so years on which I’ve posted on here, I’ve seen many posters collectively wet themselves about mediocre players who have been struggling to get a game in the firsts and who never ultimately make it. Byrnes, Sharman, Highmore, Connolly and Bytel are just the latest generation.

I think most of these guys struggle to get a game because they simply aren’t ever going to be that good. Compare them to the likes of Wilkie, Sinclair, Marshall, Battle and - fingers crossed - Windhager and Owen (I won’t include NWM because he was a first round draft pick). These guys demonstrated lots of raw talent from day one.

My impression is that you can’t generally coach 18+ year olds to have vastly superior skills or physical attributes such as pace. You can improve their ability to read a game and their teamwork, and increase their strength and stamina, but that’s the extent of it. For a player like Sinclair, who already had all the skills but was a bit rough around the edges, that can lift him to elite level. For a Long or Byrnes, that can only lift them to GOP level.

I rate Sharman a bit higher as he has some serious skills. But he desperately needs to bulk up.

In conclusion, I think the answer isn’t better development but better recruiting. We need to find more Wilkies, Marshall’s and Sinclairs and less of the GOP variety.

Play the kids, play the kids, play the kids.

Kids play if they are good enough.

100% bang on with regards to better recruiting. That's the missing piece of our puzzle and it is the hardest. 18 clubs scrapping for talent in a very thin talent pool which was completely destroyed by the Pademic including all of the 2nd tier comps around the country currently in disarray after having the gutz stripped out of thier resource's.

Disagree with Sharman, his agility is very poor and won't make it as a mid sized forward, maybe that is why they are trilling him as a run and punch defender.

Probably would have done better at FF than King yesterday

[Sainter_Dad]

You would think a win against West Coast on their own dung heap would fill you full of optimism & hope for the future so why do I feel so flat ?

Because - every win keeps the faint hope alive - but we are really just waiting for the other shoe to drop and us not being able to make it to the finals.

[Banger9798]

Sharmans a forward and he turns like queen mary down back
Forward line and last kick into it still dysfunctional today
We still had to scrounge scrape and pressure for our goals….
I’d like to see Sharman get an extended run up forward

No doubt he’s a better forward then defender.

The criticism from many is that he’s too one dimensional, mark/shot style hence I think the idea is have him work up the ground to get from contest to contest, set up plays, run around more etc
The player I’m thinking of his Justin Plapp... very one dimensional undersized forward at this level when he started but was a really decent utility albeit at the lower level. If he makes it, it’ll be as a forward.

I'd prefer Sharman as full forward and Max as roaming CHF.
He leads better than Max and is a very good mark and a better kick.
Max is much more mobile and a better mark.

[Leo.J]

….In conclusion, I think the answer isn’t better development but better recruiting….

Can’t it be both?

[perfectionist]

Not sold on Byrnes

He can't kick 40 metres, although he does have an out kick on the left. Can't take a contested mark (too short and no leap). Average pace but can run on a spread. He looks like his strength could improve.

[cwrcyn]

Byrnes and Sharman can improve and most likely will. A lot have written Byrnes off on here , but I think that's very premature. I believe he can still be a good player for us. He makes good decisions with the ball and is a neat kick

Long and Lienert will not get any better. Lienert is almost as good as Mason Wood. Long just doesn't read the game well enough. He's a bit like Mav Weller

[Vortex]

Sharmans a forward and he turns like queen mary down back
Forward line and last kick into it still dysfunctional today
We still had to scrounge scrape and pressure for our goals….
I’d like to see Sharman get an extended run up forward

No doubt he’s a better forward then defender.

The criticism from many is that he’s too one dimensional, mark/shot style hence I think the idea is have him work up the ground to get from contest to contest, set up plays, run around more etc
The player I’m thinking of his Justin Plapp... very one dimensional undersized forward at this level when he started but was a really decent utility albeit at the lower level. If he makes it, it’ll be as a forward.

I'd prefer Sharman as full forward and Max as roaming CHF.
He leads better than Max and is a very good mark and a better kick.
Max is much more mobile and a better mark.

Sharman like a lot of players get found out at the elite level. His lack of accleration off a step and lack of agility only allows him to run in straight lines to run at incoming balls which at the elite level is very easy to defend.

I have heard retired forwards say It's what makes Buddy's 1000 goals in the modern game all the more remarkable, he played in the error of 2 way running and zones and the defensive press with intercepting markers. They recon Plugger wouldn't have kicked many goals in the modern era becaue of how modern defences work with no holes to run into and I recon that is why the coaches are teaching Sharman how to run in straight lines and punch the ball as a defender. He's not much chop in an AFL forward line.

It will be interesting to see if the recruiters bring another key tall or medium forward or if they push all their chips in on Hayes.

[1971]

I recall us recruiting Barry Lawrence as a forward from Longford. He was pretty poor in his first year and would have been written off by some. Look what happened. Give people a chance.

[older saint]

Long - hard at it , tackles and pressure, but foot skills and decision making let him down often. Much preferred forward of centre then back
Brynes - still developing. runs hard and link player. Ideally i could see him becoming a wing with occasional centre bounce
Lienert - Depth player . can fill a role and do a servicable job at AFL level
Sharman - most polarising player on the list. Showed what was possible last game last year but to me doesnt seem to have done the work over pre season. Would like to see him harder at the ball and contest and better when the ball hits the ground.

[minneapolis]

Long - hard at it , tackles and pressure, but foot skills and decision making let him down often. Much preferred forward of centre then back
Brynes - still developing. runs hard and link player. Ideally i could see him becoming a wing with occasional centre bounce
Lienert - Depth player . can fill a role and do a servicable job at AFL level
Sharman - most polarising player on the list. Showed what was possible last game last year but to me doesnt seem to have done the work over pre season. Would like to see him harder at the ball and contest and better when the ball hits the ground.

Sharman is not fit enough. He tired badly in the second half and did not make it to contest he should have. Still that can be rectified. I like him because he can kick.