Question for Ratten lovers

[B.M]

Choco who?

Williams??

He was never at Port Melbourne?!

Choco came over - went to Richmond as a development coach
Then to Werribee as Senior Coach
Then to Melbourne as a skills coach

We interviewed Choco at the time we appointed Alan Richardson!

[Teflon]

I say perhaps too soon, however I supported a re-signing.

I am in the minority who believes many of the players on this list were drinking their own bath water at 8-3 and with a tougher draw have hit reality. Has the coaching been great - no but if 9ou use a 5 week sample size to make a decision you are delusional and he has done enough over 3 years to deserve a new contract.

We lack players willing to call others out and i think Gary Lyon called us a club of "all talk" - very true about this playing group at the moment. Too worried about hurting feelings then hearing the truth.

It is possible to put up an argument for all the various options but I concur with older saint's point that it would not be "on" to base a decision on Ratten's contract extension on the last 6 rounds with just the 1 win.

There is also the fact that, as is often mentioned, football today is very much a business, it's an "industry", and good corporate governance decisions do not include emotional considerations. In deciding whether or not to retain Ratten beyond 2022 the Board would have followed a normal process that started many months ago and encompassed the team's performance throughout his tenancy.

It is quite possible that they are following Richmond FC board's steadfast resistance to demands by thousands of their supporters to sack Hardwick in 2016, a decision that history shows was totally vindicated!

Not even remotely accurate. I sat in a room with Choco and heard him share this story his first season at Port Melbourne. We had met earlier at a clinic and were both changing our diet & lifestyle in an attempt to beat death back for a few more years...I'm glad to say we both succeeded.

I believe the guy. He is a hard ass, but integrity is like his mantra, he flippin' reported himself one year for making an error on his taxes and was fined $350. Who does that? He lost his sh1t because the parking meter ran out and I said leave it we'll only be another 15 mins...he was like, f*** that! It's wrong, it's stealing. He literally made me go out in the fecking rain and put in a dollar

Choco had built a group of lads into legends and the discipline, footy smarts and culture he had invested saw the team growing wildly for 4 seasons... but fans weren't happy that Tigers weren't going all the way. The people in the know realised it was because Hardwick's stubbornness to not listen to Choco on game day strategy.

The board was just starting to consider letting Hardwick go and he made an ultimatum of either fire Choco or I'll quit. Hardwick knew Choco was gravely ill & even heard his lymphoma could be terminal...so like a true c@nt he leaked his ultimatum cleverly so Choco would respond and Choco did by telling the board he's leaving at season end. So now the board lost their replacement and Hardwick has them by the shorts....the team was primed and ready to explode. The youth had been developed into a strongly bonded unit and were going to win it all even with Hardwick at the helm.

The board threw a caveat at Hardwick and insisted he follow the game plan Choco had laid out which was opposite to the AFL trend of zoning and having mids grind the ball to the ground and waste time ( ala Paul Roos ....defensive and negative style of play...the tactics of flooding, and retaining possession through short chip kicks which his protege Ross Lyon brought to Saints). Hardwick is no fool, I'll give him that, he went away and had a hard look, everyone loved Choco, everyone listened to Choco and when he follows Chocos gameplan and even player strategy, they won...alot. So, as many commentators pointed out Hardwicke style changed and that was enough to help them get over the top.

Choco's style of coaching was totally opposite with his strategy known as the Sheedy. He mimicked his mentor Kevin Sheedy in his strategy, coaching and culture building. He was an authoritarian...the opposite of our Coach.


Talk about losing your sh1t and going off on a rant like a mad c@nt...lol

I guess because we almost died together & lived I got a soft spot.

Sorry mate

Thanks for sharing that
Such a shame we couldn’t have him at saints

[B.M]

Is any of that true?

Why did Choco leave Richmond?

He was never at Port Melbourne (Gary Ayres coached them from 08-21 for 14 years)

I listened to a 3qtr time speech from Williams
Guy put on a performance- sounded completely mental.

Not sure how, but it worked - they came from behind to beat Sandy

Bit like Sheedy and Blight imo
A lateral thinking crazy genius - often on a tangent - rarely logical - but it seemed to work

[cwrcyn]

Choco is a complete psycho

[Saintmatt]

We opted for the illusion of stability
Very conservative option
Smacks of a board who don't want to look stupid...
Well, guess what!

Stability isn't an illusion. It's very much a thing. Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil and/or where the football department structure is unknown. If you're a talented employee in any industry - you very much want to know who your boss or is going to be.

That's why North are in all sorts. Until the Walsh review is implemented - AND a new coach appointed - they have zero chance of attracting any quality. Bizarrely, they had to punt Noble as he'd already burnt too many bridges and players were threatening their Managers with a mass mutiny

[shanegrambeau]

..... Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil......

Ah?

If the price is right they'll go anywhere.

Hill, Hanners..

1980s-1990s
We were like Greek ship owners...

(No disrespect to Greek Shipping owners who built profit from used (very used) shipping)

[SAINT-LEE]

Is any of that true?

Why did Choco leave Richmond?

He was never at Port Melbourne (Gary Ayres coached them from 08-21 for 14 years)

I listened to a 3qtr time speech from Williams
Guy put on a performance- sounded completely mental.

Not sure how, but it worked - they came from behind to beat Sandy

Bit like Sheedy and Blight imo
A lateral thinking crazy genius - often on a tangent - rarely logical - but it seemed to work

That was a bit of an odd slip maybe Freudian lol? I meant Werribee and I've said Port Melbourne...not exactly the same club.

[SAINT-LEE]

Choco is a complete psycho

I agree I love it

[Teflon]

We opted for the illusion of stability
Very conservative option
Smacks of a board who don't want to look stupid...
Well, guess what!

Stability isn't an illusion. It's very much a thing. Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil and/or where the football department structure is unknown. If you're a talented employee in any industry - you very much want to know who your boss or is going to be.

That's why North are in all sorts. Until the Walsh review is implemented - AND a new coach appointed - they have zero chance of attracting any quality. Bizarrely, they had to punt Noble as he'd already burnt too many bridges and players were threatening their Managers with a mass mutiny

Yes so let’s stay “beige” for the sake of being stable ?

[Vortex]

We opted for the illusion of stability
Very conservative option
Smacks of a board who don't want to look stupid...
Well, guess what!

Stability isn't an illusion. It's very much a thing. Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil and/or where the football department structure is unknown. If you're a talented employee in any industry - you very much want to know who your boss or is going to be.

That's why North are in all sorts. Until the Walsh review is implemented - AND a new coach appointed - they have zero chance of attracting any quality. Bizarrely, they had to punt Noble as he'd already burnt too many bridges and players were threatening their Managers with a mass mutiny

Yes so let’s stay “beige” for the sake of being stable ?

I'm with you now brother. Let's blow it all up, let's shake the fargin olive tree and make Martinis.

[Killa]

"Me, as Manager, and the Coaching staff around him can do everything to set the right conditions so he can perform but in the end the player has to do it by himself. They have to take responsibility for their performance"

ten Hag at Manchester United.

Absent Ryder last week, we had just the 2 players over 193cm (Marshall and King)

So there is a structural deficiency (noting who appeared at VFL level last week)

Then, Billings, Clark and Coffield, as recent top 10 Draft Picks, have appeared in how many games in 2022?

There is still work to be done on the demographics of the List across the Park, as is always the case.

But, to attract the required talent from elsewhere, you firstly need a respected and stable Administration invested into a Football Department with integrity.

Anyone reading certain contributions on this site would not come within a bull's roar of entertaining joining St Kilda.

[Teflon]

We opted for the illusion of stability
Very conservative option
Smacks of a board who don't want to look stupid...
Well, guess what!

Stability isn't an illusion. It's very much a thing. Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil and/or where the football department structure is unknown. If you're a talented employee in any industry - you very much want to know who your boss or is going to be.

That's why North are in all sorts. Until the Walsh review is implemented - AND a new coach appointed - they have zero chance of attracting any quality. Bizarrely, they had to punt Noble as he'd already burnt too many bridges and players were threatening their Managers with a mass mutiny

Yes so let’s stay “beige” for the sake of being stable ?

I'm with you now brother. Let's blow it all up, let's shake the fargin olive tree and make Martinis.

Or we could have a Bex and a good lie down for another 9 years..

[Vortex]

We opted for the illusion of stability
Very conservative option
Smacks of a board who don't want to look stupid...
Well, guess what!

Stability isn't an illusion. It's very much a thing. Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil and/or where the football department structure is unknown. If you're a talented employee in any industry - you very much want to know who your boss or is going to be.

That's why North are in all sorts. Until the Walsh review is implemented - AND a new coach appointed - they have zero chance of attracting any quality. Bizarrely, they had to punt Noble as he'd already burnt too many bridges and players were threatening their Managers with a mass mutiny

Yes so let’s stay “beige” for the sake of being stable ?

I'm with you now brother. Let's blow it all up, let's shake the fargin olive tree and make Martinis.

Or we could have a Bex and a good lie down for another 9 years..

I'm on-board. Let's get a public stoning going urgently.

[cwrcyn]

It's about expectations versus reality.

The anger on here is partly due to expectations that exceed the reality.

We have a reasonable playing list with scope for improvement.

We have one genuinely tall key defender
We have one genuinely tall key forward who's still developing
We have a vanilla midfield with a lack of pace and elite kicking skills
We have good quality small defenders
Our wings give us very little in real influence in a game (Wood and NWM)
We are reliant on a 34 year old ruckman
Outside our best 22 (I'd put Sharman in there) we do not have a single decent key position play to call on

[cwrcyn]

Which means there's still work to do and we are clearly short of being contenders.

That was apparent at round one

[bangaulegend]

Which means there's still work to do and we are clearly short of being contenders.

That was apparent at round one

Yep , but we teased for a bit reality is such a bitch

[Shaggy]

..... Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil......

Ah?

If the price is right they'll go anywhere.

Hill, Hanners..

Hanners was offered $1m a year with Melbourne for 5 years which he rejected. He stayed with Swans for $800K. After an injury year he went to us with an extra year on the contract but the $800K diluted based on incentives which of course have not worked out. He compromised this year downwards again because he has not given the value. Moving to the Saints has been a bad financial decision for Hanners.

[shanegrambeau]

..... Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil......

Ah?

If the price is right they'll go anywhere.

Hill, Hanners..

Hanners was offered $1m a year with Melbourne for 5 years which he rejected. He stayed with Swans for $800K. After an injury year he went to us with an extra year on the contract but the $800K diluted based on incentives which of course have not worked out. He compromised this year downwards again because he has not given the value. Moving to the Saints has been a bad financial decision for Hanners.

I do not know the details, but to say that Hanners's rejection of 1mil for five years vs 800K with Sydney is a premise to suggest Hanners lost money coming to us..is faulty..It is Fawlty Towers. !! Hanners market value declined so sharply in his last years with Sydney, even their loving and respecting fans were glad to see him go. Not only that, they laughed at StKFC. Now, first up, we all know the system is a bit of a s*** show, full of dodgy brothers levels of rusted out 1968 Dodge utes. And we know that a 1968 rusted out Dodge ute probably carried him to Moorabin (seaford?) from Sydney ..which caused more wear and tear. MOreover, we know StKFC was obliged to spend money..and no one would come to us. Suddenly , a rusted out '68 Dodge ute is classic muscle car. It's now an XR GT or an HJ MOnaro with a 327 Chev.

Hanners didnt lose..he was winner...big time...Jack Pot...Money Bags...ring the bell.s...He and his trusty manager...won big time...To suggest he lost money and made sacrifices is ridiculous IMO. NO diss for Hanners as a man. I respect him. I respect his manager. Just sayin' as it were.

[skeptic]

..... Player managers will not entertain sending their players to a club that's in turmoil......

Ah?

If the price is right they'll go anywhere.

Hill, Hanners..

Hanners was offered $1m a year with Melbourne for 5 years which he rejected. He stayed with Swans for $800K. After an injury year he went to us with an extra year on the contract but the $800K diluted based on incentives which of course have not worked out. He compromised this year downwards again because he has not given the value. Moving to the Saints has been a bad financial decision for Hanners.

I do not know the details, but to say that Hanners's rejection of 1mil for five years vs 800K with Sydney is a premise to suggest Hanners lost money coming to us..is faulty..It is Fawlty Towers. !! Hanners market value declined so sharply in his last years with Sydney, even their loving and respecting fans were glad to see him go. Not only that, they laughed at StKFC. Now, first up, we all know the system is a bit of a s*** show, full of dodgy brothers levels of rusted out 1968 Dodge utes. And we know that a 1968 rusted out Dodge ute probably carried him to Moorabin (seaford?) from Sydney ..which caused more wear and tear. MOreover, we know StKFC was obliged to spend money..and no one would come to us. Suddenly , a rusted out '68 Dodge ute is classic muscle car. It's now an XR GT or an HJ MOnaro with a 327 Chev.

Hanners didnt lose..he was winner...big time...Jack Pot...Money Bags...ring the bell.s...He and his trusty manager...won big time...To suggest he lost money and made sacrifices is ridiculous IMO. NO diss for Hanners as a man. I respect him. I respect his manager. Just sayin' as it were.

Could not agree more

Talk about twisted logic

[Wayne42]

Whatever the problems with our list are, we will be competing with multiple clubs to remedy those issue, in a shallow talent pool.

Wait until we go to 19 teams, the comp will be full of Gops. We are farked.

[shanegrambeau]

Whatever the problems with our list are, we will be competing with multiple clubs to remedy those issue, in a shallow talent pool.

Wait until we go to 19 teams, the comp will be full of Gops. We are farked.

A thin talent pool is not a competitive problem. All teams will have to deal with it..

...BUT...

the problem from my peep hole, as i see it, is that StKFC are weak because of their status as minnows in the AFL franchise. We are not really an independent club. We and NOrth Melb - perhaps even more so than North, given their history. are in a co-dependency with the AFL. So we will tend to make those Hanners and Hill like choices more than say a Geelong, or a Collingwood, that can afford to be selfish and driven to achieve success for themselves, not the AFL. Screw fairness, Screw social issues, screw the fixture...win, win, win...politics, media, draft, match review panel, umpiring, killing other clubs by shock tactics or covertly eroding them bu any means - all good.

St Kilda on the other hand, we are living spoonful to spoonful.

No doubt the admin know this..but what are they gonna do about it if their short-medium term priority is survival?

[SaintWiki]

Well my two bobs worth is that we need to ramp up on and off the ground leadership and more ... If Ratts had have been sacked I would probably be just as nervous about most of the possible incoming coaches as well. If we can play well in one quarter when we're going down the gurgler, then we should be able to do the same in all of the other quarters (injuries aside). Sure we haven't got the best cattle, but we should be able to perform at the best we possibly can and I see too many instances where this doesn't happen. Yep, recruit well, but do we really use our current players attributes to our best advantage, as it looks to me that there is too much trying to get players to do things that they may never be able to perfect and overlooking their strengths and making a team out of that ... And do we develop our players properly like other clubs do when they get hold of some of our players cheap and we are forced to watch them cutting up game after game. As for another thread about GT - I might be too old to see a flag, but I can't remember any game under GT that was as depleting to watch as many that I have watched since, no matter what rubbish he tells the media.

[SunnyErnie]

And there were quite a few a few weeks back who trumpeted the news of his re signing as ‘great news’

A genuine question. Do you still feel the club made the right call to re sign Ratten when they did rather than wait until the end of the season?

Massive mistake by the board. The board should be dismissed

[Scollop]

Go away

You're suffering from a bad loss and I understand how that feels

Harry Jones is probably feeling worse than you do

[SunnyErnie]

Are you happy Ratts got an extension?