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The_Dud wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jul 2022 10:05pm
How many “warts and all, honesty sessions” does this club have every year, 2 or 3?
Clearly not working, time to actually back up all the talk with actions and drop some players who clearly think they’re undroppable.
This season is gone, it’s about setting a standard for the future.
As many have said NWM harshly done by, it’s not the kids who let us down last week.
The Gold Coast Suns are building the right culture. You play poorly and you suffer the consequences
With our team, we were putrid, and it's basically only 1 senior player dropped.
One year ago the club had an opportunity to make a statement and drop Brad Hill. I'm still waiting for the day.
Why is he so fuckn untouchable and why do Lethlean and Finnis and Ratten let this guy off the hook every week
So you can only find a year old tabloid media blurb proposing the dropping of Brad Hill and you are still waiting? Can't find any current media to guide you?
I'd be interested to learn of YOUR reasons for dropping him now, in the present day. He has been pretty good in recent weeks, over 25 possessions in 3 of the last 4 games. Quiet last week, as were many, but unlike most he gets tagged each week, and sometimes it works. It also releases Sinclair a bit when Hill is tagged. Hill is tagged because he can really influence games, and we do not have many like that. Optus Stadium also suits him.
You don't want him out because he occupies a position that you believe can be filled by Longy? Surely not.
Side is yet to be finalised so there may be more changes.
That said we are not privileged to the video review and therefore restricted to the channel 7 vision.
Hanners and Bytel not ready after only 70% game time in the VFL, despite what some here think. Therefore to some extent the cupboard is a little empty.
There is definitely a few in the lucky category - Gresham, Higgins, Butler,
However if results go the favoured way we will be in the 8 at the end of this round. Imagine the outcry here if they dropped all those mentioned and we lost to WC and Rich , WB , GC all lost too . Not as easy as some in arm chairs believe
Vortex wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 10:11am
Gee I can see a loss coming out way over in the west against this year's wooden spooners.
The bottom line is probably we have 8 to 10 AFL grade players on our list and then it drops away dramatically.
I mean any side that picks a player like Sharman in the backline or ruck is flat out of players and that's by no means any disrespect to our Sandy players but we literally have zero players to pick from at Sandy.
Interesting times ahead.
Coach Ratten mentioned Cooper by name in his latest presser as performing credibly.
Coops is an AFL standard player; saying he is not over and over again with the sprinkle of maiden aunt/uncle oh wells on top won't diminish him.
We may well lose, but if we do it will be because of a sterile forward line that does not have the wit to manufacture goals even with Max the King of Kontested.
Amazing feat of ineptitude really.
But I hope something clicks this weekend and they suddenly find the big sticks often enough for a rare WA win.
meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 8:28am
I’ll never get the strange vengefulness that drives many fans, who seem more excited about the idea of players being dropped than of players performing well and winning us games.
And there seems to be no understanding of our poor depth due to injuries.
Sure, let’s drop Hill for a massively important game? Who for, Connolly or Bytel? If we aren’t a laughing stock now, we certainly would be if we did that.
Short term pain for long term gain.
I’m sick to death of rebuilds.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
The_Dud wrote: ↑Thu 21 Jul 2022 10:05pm
How many “warts and all, honesty sessions” does this club have every year, 2 or 3?
Clearly not working, time to actually back up all the talk with actions and drop some players who clearly think they’re undroppable.
This season is gone, it’s about setting a standard for the future.
As many have said NWM harshly done by, it’s not the kids who let us down last week.
The Gold Coast Suns are building the right culture. You play poorly and you suffer the consequences
With our team, we were putrid, and it's basically only 1 senior player dropped.
One year ago the club had an opportunity to make a statement and drop Brad Hill. I'm still waiting for the day.
Why is he so fuckn untouchable and why do Lethlean and Finnis and Ratten let this guy off the hook every week
So you can only find a year old tabloid media blurb proposing the dropping of Brad Hill and you are still waiting? Can't find any current media to guide you?
I'd be interested to learn of YOUR reasons for dropping him now, in the present day. He has been pretty good in recent weeks, over 25 possessions in 3 of the last 4 games. Quiet last week, as were many, but unlike most he gets tagged each week, and sometimes it works. It also releases Sinclair a bit when Hill is tagged. Hill is tagged because he can really influence games, and we do not have many like that. Optus Stadium also suits him.
You don't want him out because he occupies a position that you believe can be filled by Longy? Surely not.
Go easy on Scollo, he doesn't watch the footy with the sound up.
But on Hill it's interesting his importance to our game plan which is the sling shot from half back which also includes Syncs. Teams have worked out if you shut down those two and guard the zone one kick from half back you make it very hard for us to work up the ground especially if our midfield aren't creating options for the outlet. This makes us stop and prop, go slow and go sideways and backwards.
Nearly every team has the same game plan off half back and have a Syncs and Hill, but for it to work you need a quality midfield and forward line.
You have to watch the footy with the sound up to learn these things.
meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 8:28am
I’ll never get the strange vengefulness that drives many fans, who seem more excited about the idea of players being dropped than of players performing well and winning us games.
And there seems to be no understanding of our poor depth due to injuries.
Sure, let’s drop Hill for a massively important game? Who for, Connolly or Bytel? If we aren’t a laughing stock now, we certainly would be if we did that.
Short term pain for long term gain.
I’m sick to death of rebuilds.
As we all are meher. I'm especially sick of the poor ones.
Vortex wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 10:11am
Gee I can see a loss coming out way over in the west against this year's wooden spooners.
The bottom line is probably we have 8 to 10 AFL grade players on our list and then it drops away dramatically.
I mean any side that picks a player like Sharman in the backline or ruck is flat out of players and that's by no means any disrespect to our Sandy players but we literally have zero players to pick from at Sandy.
Interesting times ahead.
Coach Ratten mentioned Cooper by name in his latest presser as performing credibly.
Coops is an AFL standard player; saying he is not over and over again with the sprinkle of maiden aunt/uncle oh wells on top won't diminish him.
We may well lose, but if we do it will be because of a sterile forward line that does not have the wit to manufacture goals even with Max the King of Kontested.
Amazing feat of ineptitude really.
But I hope something clicks this weekend and they suddenly find the big sticks often enough for a rare WA win.
Cooper did perform credibly with reference to his very limited ability at this stage of his career. But we ain't winning too many games with players of his ability in the side. The positive is we get to watch a player sink or swim playing with the big boys which is one of the great pleasures of supporting St Kilda, it's our DNA.
Byrnes is another one, we ain't winning too many games with him in the side but it will be fun watching him play with the big boys. But we are now in tank mode and so it's time to play the kids and see what to do in 2023.
meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 8:29am
Personally, I’m sorry to see Jones out. The public serve he got might have motivated him and the ground would suit his style.
And right on cue the defender of mediocrity appears..
Jones is a liability
We don’t run a charity
Season is over and coach clearly can’t set and hold a standard
As Nick Riewoldt said today
They’re a ‘nice’ group Saints….lack genuine hunger..and it shows in their effort which fluctuates
That’s on coaching - you set the standards
You pick the team
Sure we all know the list has holes (so do others) but at 8-3 we were lauding depth
It’s actually not even losing now it’s the way we are losing
Lost 5 from 6 now
Of those matches we are
17 for %
18 on contested ball
Dead set last.
And they’re-sign the coach early?????
Morons.
What the club and players desperately need is to beat the Eagles and the Hawks and then have some sort of a crack against the Cats, Lions and Swans. Spiralling into more thrashings won’t do the club the slightest bit of good going forward.
Although badly out of form, Jones is a seasoned AFL player. I accept that the coach is entitled to drop regular players to make a statement, but am concerned at the number of unseasoned players we could run out with on Sunday: potentially Windhager, Sharman, Highmore, Connolly and Byrnes. Too many IMO. I’m also pretty unsure about Campbell and Lienert, although I accept that we really had no choice other than to play the latter. Our midfield totally sucked against the Dogs and it looks potentially even weaker this week without Jones in it.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 8:29am
Personally, I’m sorry to see Jones out. The public serve he got might have motivated him and the ground would suit his style.
And right on cue the defender of mediocrity appears..
Jones is a liability
We don’t run a charity
Season is over and coach clearly can’t set and hold a standard
As Nick Riewoldt said today
They’re a ‘nice’ group Saints….lack genuine hunger..and it shows in their effort which fluctuates
That’s on coaching - you set the standards
You pick the team
Sure we all know the list has holes (so do others) but at 8-3 we were lauding depth
It’s actually not even losing now it’s the way we are losing
Lost 5 from 6 now
Of those matches we are
17 for %
18 on contested ball
Dead set last.
And they’re-sign the coach early?????
Morons.
What the club and players desperately need is to beat the Eagles and the Hawks and then have some sort of a crack against the Cats, Lions and Swans. Spiralling into more thrashings won’t do the club the slightest bit of good going forward.
Although badly out of form, Jones is a seasoned AFL player. I accept that the coach is entitled to drop regular players to make a statement, but am concerned at the number of unseasoned players we could run out with on Sunday: potentially Windhager, Sharman, Highmore, Connolly and Byrnes. Too many IMO. I’m also pretty unsure about Campbell and Lienert, although I accept that we really had no choice other than to play the latter. Our midfield totally sucked against the Dogs and it looks potentially even weaker this week.
It's like we are tanking.
But what other options do we have. This is the elephant in the room, we have a really shallow list, probably 8 to 10 AFL players and then it drops away dramatically.
But yeah I'm close to succumbing to the whole kill the coach, bring back the good ole public stoning and sell rocks at Linton Street.
meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 8:28am
I’ll never get the strange vengefulness that drives many fans, who seem more excited about the idea of players being dropped than of players performing well and winning us games.
And there seems to be no understanding of our poor depth due to injuries.
Sure, let’s drop Hill for a massively important game? Who for, Connolly or Bytel? If we aren’t a laughing stock now, we certainly would be if we did that.
Short term pain for long term gain.
I’m sick to death of rebuilds.
As we all are meher. I'm especially sick of the poor ones.
Early 2000s-style rebuilds after bottoming out are no longer possible. We have enough quality players to form the basis of a good side if we can somehow get hold of a few more. It’s the only way forward.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 8:28am
I’ll never get the strange vengefulness that drives many fans, who seem more excited about the idea of players being dropped than of players performing well and winning us games.
And there seems to be no understanding of our poor depth due to injuries.
Sure, let’s drop Hill for a massively important game? Who for, Connolly or Bytel? If we aren’t a laughing stock now, we certainly would be if we did that.
Short term pain for long term gain.
I’m sick to death of rebuilds.
As we all are meher. I'm especially sick of the poor ones.
Early 2000s-style rebuilds after bottoming out are no longer possible. We have enough quality players to form the basis of a good side if we can somehow get hold of a few more. It’s the only way forward.
I totally agree, list management is going to be crucial however I think they've got to nail the next 2 or 3 years at the draft and trading table or the timeline for this current build will end.
I'm remaining open minded on the coaching being an issue but it's not our problem right now HOWEVER if the players don't think Ratts is our man then the club should sack him and start the rebuild immediately with a new coach like Brendon Bolton while we load up on 18 year olds and get 50 games into them. Then bring in a new coach, add 10 years from now to reach that point.
But as I say I'm highly doubtful the coach is our problem. Having said that I can't see us winning another game this year so who knows what the next 6 weeks will bring and if Ratts will lose the players in the next 6 weeks.
meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 8:28am
I’ll never get the strange vengefulness that drives many fans, who seem more excited about the idea of players being dropped than of players performing well and winning us games.
And there seems to be no understanding of our poor depth due to injuries.
Sure, let’s drop Hill for a massively important game? Who for, Connolly or Bytel? If we aren’t a laughing stock now, we certainly would be if we did that.
Short term pain for long term gain.
I’m sick to death of rebuilds.
As we all are meher. I'm especially sick of the poor ones.
That's why you do it properly the first time, instead of half-a*sing it.
But this isn't a rebuild, just setting a standard for the future. It should have been done a season or two ago, but it's been allowed to fester which leaves us in situations like this.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
St Kilda has swung four changes ahead of Sunday’s match against West Coast as looks to remain in distance of the top-eight.
Jarrod Lienert and Marcus Windhager will return to the line-up alongside confirmed inclusions Seb Ross and Hunter Clark, the latter of which will return less than a month after a head clash which left him hospitalised.
Sunday will mark Lienert’s first full senior game since Round 5, with his subsequent three appearances all as the medical sub (one unused).
RESERVE YOUR PLACE FOR OUR ROUND 19 SAINTS WATCH PARTY, HOSTED AT RSEA PARK. CHILDREN AND FAMILIES WELCOME!
Zak Jones, Tom Highmore and Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera have been omitted, with Paddy Ryder rounding out the omissions as he recovers from a calf strain. Last week’s medical sub Ben Long has also missed out on selection in the starting line-up.
The Saints have opted for just the one recognised ruck in Rowan Marshall for Sunday afternoon, with the 26-year-old cleared to play after missing yesterday’s main training with illness.
Highmore, Long, Tom Campbell and Leo Connolly have been named as emergencies.
St Kilda will lock horns with West Coast on Sunday 24 July in the hopes of strengthening its standing on the ladder, with the opening bounce at Optus Stadium set for 2:40pm AWST (4:40pm AEST).
IN: Clark, Lienert, Ross, Windhager
OUT: Highmore (omitted), Jones (omitted), Long (medi-sub), Ryder (injured), Wanganeen-Milera (omitted)
Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
B
Callum Wilkie Josh Battle Jimmy Webster
HB
Ben Paton Jack Sinclair Hunter Clark
C
Ryan Byrnes Seb Ross Bradley Hill
HF
Tim Membrey Mason Wood Jack Higgins
F
Max King Jack Billings Dan Butler
R
Rowan Marshall Jack Steele Brad Crouch
INT
Cooper Sharman Jarrod Lienert Marcus Windhager
Jade Gresham
E
Ben Long Tom Campbell Leo Connolly
Tom Highmore
Macquarie Dictionary Word of the Year for 2023 "Kosi Lives"
Bruce G McAbee wrote: ↑Fri 22 Jul 2022 6:32pm
Why did we bother recruiting Campbell?
Who is going to help Marshall out?
Sorry, but it makes zero sense.
Who is the second ruck for WC?
Their first ruck is only Williams.
Marshall one out should go very well.
Ruck should be good for us.
It is the other positions that I am worried about.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
