Question for Ratten lovers

[Moods]

And there were quite a few a few weeks back who trumpeted the news of his re signing as ‘great news’

A genuine question. Do you still feel the club made the right call to re sign Ratten when they did rather than wait until the end of the season?

[B.M]

No - it was a typically dumb decision

[Jacks Back]

You need to put a pole up.
I vote No - they should have waited until the end of the season. It's not like he was going to be poached.

[D.B.Cooper]

I don’t understand the haste of the decision.

I doubt Ratten was being head hunted elsewhere or was considering leaving, therefore end of season seems more appropriate.

Only time will tell if it was correct or a bust.
Early days are not promising.

[Banger9798]

We opted for the illusion of stability
Very conservative option
Smacks of a board who don't want to look stupid...
Well, guess what!

[Yorkeys]

Why was Sandy so good Saturday?
Hanneberry?
Bachelor?
Organic bond between the youngsters?

Hope the AFL team does not spoil the current chemistry those guys have.

Brett, any lessons there?

[Ghost Like]

Perhaps a review of the entire Club could have been done during the 2nd half of the season before anymore long term appointments. Obviously completely independent of any position - The Board, The Administration, The Coaching / Development Department. The playing list is reviewed at the end of every season. Add a critique of Recruiting Services, measured by the list age demographic and what holes are left in the list: Key Backs, Ruckmen, Outside Midfielders.

I just scratch my head that as a VFL / AFL Club we have (likely) turned over the most coaches in the games history. Only once has that worked, it cannot just be the coach can it? Surely the other planets must align.

[Vortex]

What is the opposite of Lovers.

Tribalism is an interesting human trait.

Tribalising the Hero and the Villain is a fundamental part of many storylines to pit an appealing hero against a repulsive villain. Some narratives don’t just take this too far; they take it in a sinister direction. In stories structured this way, the hero isn’t likable because of his or her good qualities or actions. The hero is likable because he / she is part of a group that the narrative defines as all having noble and appealing qualities. Hero and tribe are superior and entitled to prevail.

Conversely, the villain isn’t despicable because of his or her bad qualities or actions. The villain is hateful because he / she is part of a group that the narrative defines as all having base and revolting qualities. Villain and tribe are subhuman and deserve to be stamped out

The haters have told us who the vilan is, but they haven't told us who the hero is.

False narratives spawning from all the cracks in the internet.

[DJ Higgins]

The only good thing now is that it is better the devil you know. And let’s be honest it can’t get a lot worse. We also now have two years to start scouting for his replacement rather than hire someone out of desperation ie richardson.

[spert]

Looking at the body language of the playing group and the coach after the Dogs game, I would say there is a big disconnect at the club.

[SaintDippa]

There was no way that people who hired him were going to fire him after 3.
The resigning was always going to be after the bye. Unfortunately the timing was screwed with the losses. The Carlton win was the trigger. Another two years at which time most of the crew would probably have moved on or worked for success to vindicate their decision.

[skeptic]

I sat firmly in the too soon camp

What’s interesting is this sudden emergence of long standing unrest from inside the club.

Very bizarre to me

It’s even been suggested here that the current slump is in part due to the players disillusionment in the signing!!!

Went from having them to completely losing them in 4 weeks

[The Fireman]

You need to put a pole up.
I vote No - they should have waited until the end of the season. It's not like he was going to be poached.

ill put one up

[Vortex]

I sat firmly in the too soon camp

What’s interesting is this sudden emergence of long standing unrest from inside the club.

Very bizarre to me

It’s even been suggested here that the current slump is in part due to the players disillusionment in the signing!!!

Went from having them to completely losing them in 4 weeks

Precisely -- 4 weeks!!!

At what point do our precious players get held to account.

[asiu]

haha

i'm doing a Helen

(didn't mean for my post to end up in the other thread)

***

i was a yes voter

i appreciate ... at the target / congruency of decision making

this has the smell of double messaging from the coaching staff
(rattens resposibility)

the party boys or roboboys aspect i bang on about

i remember sitting with Barks at the Dome
... the pill went sideways to just forward of the wing
after the first bounce

we stopped ... what was the right thing to do again !!??

my pickup was that :
gt had succumbed to the 'we need to be defensive' mindset

and out of my mouth came ... "that will cost gt his job"


this current train wreck
reminds me of that experience

[older saint]

I say perhaps too soon, however I supported a re-signing.

I am in the minority who believes many of the players on this list were drinking their own bath water at 8-3 and with a tougher draw have hit reality. Has the coaching been great - no but if 9ou use a 5 week sample size to make a decision you are delusional and he has done enough over 3 years to deserve a new contract.

We lack players willing to call others out and i think Gary Lyon called us a club of "all talk" - very true about this playing group at the moment. Too worried about hurting feelings then hearing the truth.

[WellardSaint]

Were the club afraid of another Ross Lyon scenario?

They wanna pick and choose which mistakes of history they want to bloody avoid, sorry, they bet the farm on the wrong bloody horse this time

[outside66]

Why was Sandy so good Saturday?
Hanneberry?
Bachelor?
Organic bond between the youngsters?

Hope the AFL team does not spoil the current chemistry those guys have.

Brett, any lessons there?

Because we were playing a team who have only won 3 games for the year and don't have any AFL-listed players. A more accurate reflection on Sandy's formline would be the 4 consecutive losses prior to Saturday.

[shanegrambeau]

I’ll say it again …(in a different way)

It wasn’t a decision

It was a non-decision

Inertia

As the wheels of the various ‘processes’ roll in

Well oiled by manager,

Ticking off boxes

Fulfilling yearly targets and requirements

done

Now let’s go to the pub

What a croc.

Stewart Due resigned the same week

[asiu]

re-signed

[chook23]

Why was Sandy so good Saturday?
Hanneberry?
Bachelor?
Organic bond between the youngsters?

Hope the AFL team does not spoil the current chemistry those guys have.

Brett, any lessons there?

Played one of the bottom sides

[Sanctorum]

I say perhaps too soon, however I supported a re-signing.

I am in the minority who believes many of the players on this list were drinking their own bath water at 8-3 and with a tougher draw have hit reality. Has the coaching been great - no but if 9ou use a 5 week sample size to make a decision you are delusional and he has done enough over 3 years to deserve a new contract.

We lack players willing to call others out and i think Gary Lyon called us a club of "all talk" - very true about this playing group at the moment. Too worried about hurting feelings then hearing the truth.

It is possible to put up an argument for all the various options but I concur with older saint's point that it would not be "on" to base a decision on Ratten's contract extension on the last 6 rounds with just the 1 win.

There is also the fact that, as is often mentioned, football today is very much a business, it's an "industry", and good corporate governance decisions do not include emotional considerations. In deciding whether or not to retain Ratten beyond 2022 the Board would have followed a normal process that started many months ago and encompassed the team's performance throughout his tenancy.

It is quite possible that they are following Richmond FC board's steadfast resistance to demands by thousands of their supporters to sack Hardwick in 2016, a decision that history shows was totally vindicated!

[SAINT-LEE]

Why was Sandy so good Saturday?
Hanneberry?
Bachelor?
Organic bond between the youngsters?

Hope the AFL team does not spoil the current chemistry those guys have.

Brett, any lessons there?

Ummm they were playing a rubbish team with several AFL listed players out...so we beat them with our 2 out on the full and 17 behinds....we were awesome! Lol

I think Brett is the lesson master in behinds AND beating teams that are weak as piss...unless we don't and they smash us

[SAINT-LEE]

I say perhaps too soon, however I supported a re-signing.

I am in the minority who believes many of the players on this list were drinking their own bath water at 8-3 and with a tougher draw have hit reality. Has the coaching been great - no but if 9ou use a 5 week sample size to make a decision you are delusional and he has done enough over 3 years to deserve a new contract.

We lack players willing to call others out and i think Gary Lyon called us a club of "all talk" - very true about this playing group at the moment. Too worried about hurting feelings then hearing the truth.

It is possible to put up an argument for all the various options but I concur with older saint's point that it would not be "on" to base a decision on Ratten's contract extension on the last 6 rounds with just the 1 win.

There is also the fact that, as is often mentioned, football today is very much a business, it's an "industry", and good corporate governance decisions do not include emotional considerations. In deciding whether or not to retain Ratten beyond 2022 the Board would have followed a normal process that started many months ago and encompassed the team's performance throughout his tenancy.

It is quite possible that they are following Richmond FC board's steadfast resistance to demands by thousands of their supporters to sack Hardwick in 2016, a decision that history shows was totally vindicated!

Not even remotely accurate. I sat in a room with Choco and heard him share this story his first season at Port Melbourne. We had met earlier at a clinic and were both changing our diet & lifestyle in an attempt to beat death back for a few more years...I'm glad to say we both succeeded.

I believe the guy. He is a hard ass, but integrity is like his mantra, he flippin' reported himself one year for making an error on his taxes and was fined $350. Who does that? He lost his sh1t because the parking meter ran out and I said leave it we'll only be another 15 mins...he was like, f*** that! It's wrong, it's stealing. He literally made me go out in the fecking rain and put in a dollar

Choco had built a group of lads into legends and the discipline, footy smarts and culture he had invested saw the team growing wildly for 4 seasons... but fans weren't happy that Tigers weren't going all the way. The people in the know realised it was because Hardwick's stubbornness to not listen to Choco on game day strategy.

The board was just starting to consider letting Hardwick go and he made an ultimatum of either fire Choco or I'll quit. Hardwick knew Choco was gravely ill & even heard his lymphoma could be terminal...so like a true c@nt he leaked his ultimatum cleverly so Choco would respond and Choco did by telling the board he's leaving at season end. So now the board lost their replacement and Hardwick has them by the shorts....the team was primed and ready to explode. The youth had been developed into a strongly bonded unit and were going to win it all even with Hardwick at the helm.

The board threw a caveat at Hardwick and insisted he follow the game plan Choco had laid out which was opposite to the AFL trend of zoning and having mids grind the ball to the ground and waste time ( ala Paul Roos ....defensive and negative style of play...the tactics of flooding, and retaining possession through short chip kicks which his protege Ross Lyon brought to Saints). Hardwick is no fool, I'll give him that, he went away and had a hard look, everyone loved Choco, everyone listened to Choco and when he follows Chocos gameplan and even player strategy, they won...alot. So, as many commentators pointed out Hardwicke style changed and that was enough to help them get over the top.

Choco's style of coaching was totally opposite with his strategy known as the Sheedy. He mimicked his mentor Kevin Sheedy in his strategy, coaching and culture building. He was an authoritarian...the opposite of our Coach.


Talk about losing your sh1t and going off on a rant like a mad c@nt...lol

I guess because we almost died together & lived I got a soft spot.

Sorry mate

[Teflon]

Perhaps a review of the entire Club could have been done during the 2nd half of the season before anymore long term appointments. Obviously completely independent of any position - The Board, The Administration, The Coaching / Development Department. The playing list is reviewed at the end of every season. Add a critique of Recruiting Services, measured by the list age demographic and what holes are left in the list: Key Backs, Ruckmen, Outside Midfielders.

I just scratch my head that as a VFL / AFL Club we have (likely) turned over the most coaches in the games history. Only once has that worked, it cannot just be the coach can it? Surely the other planets must align.

When’s our last truly good coach???
It can be the coach absolutely
Just like players we’ve selected poorly
9 years of Richo and Ratten
Coach sets the tone
As someone said on BF when Lyon coached you had players onfield who would absolutely challenge you if you didn’t do your job
They know Lyon demanded no less
Brett just wants everyone to “care” a bit more
He’s a nice guy but not a senior coach