What a pack of whingers

[D.B.Cooper]

a key tall forward who is turning out to be spud due to a phycological defect which clearly wasn't picked up at the draft combine.

Max King has an undiagnosed defect related to algae?
Was he an open water swimmer as a junior?

What do you suggest Dr Google, hydrogen peroxide?

[Teflon]

The seeds of our current woes were sewn 5 to 7 years ago. It's easy to look at the past couple of years and point the finger, but these things are many years in the making

Our current list manager and recruiters have done a pretty good job given the hand they've been dealt, but the abysmal failures of Elshaug have hurt us. He had opportunities to snare genuine midfield talent through the draft over a few years and just got it wrong

All the better teams have one or two star midfielders. Guys who can light up a game, or just plough through like a high speed steamroller.

Where is our Bontompelli, Petracca, Oliver, Cripps, Dangerfield, Walsh, etc?

Yes, recent performances have been woeful, but we need to be honest with ourselves. We are a mid range team that has deficiencies that need to be addressed. Sometimes things click and sometimes we're off the boil. Until we bridge the talent gap it does matter who's coaching us because a premiership is just not attainable with this list as it stands right now

But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Good work has been done, but more is needed. It's hard to be patient when we have to witness these horrible losses, but reality is reality

At some stage you have to stop looking in the rear view mirror to decade old decisions and start owning the now
Collingwood we’re deemed for a spiral under Buckley
Had massive player payments issues
Lost one of their best mids
Played a way too defensive game plan
Fast forward (not a decade)
They have a new coaching group who have over hauled the game style
Sure they’ve brought in a jet in Daicos but they’ve recruited smart
Lipinski - I was here last year saying pick 43 fir a genuine ball winning mid who uses it exceptionally well and we overlook him????
It’s not all about “we missed on Petracca”
We’ve dropped the ball in the last 9 years under Richardson and last 3 under Ratten - who MUST be accountable for that
Our response?
Extend a mediocre coach no one else was chasing…
Hawks and Suns will fly past us in the next 12 months
While our idiots in the “inner circle” are running around suggesting our windows about to open
Laughable stuff.

[The Fireman]

I see it like this we have two players in Sinclair and Wilkie
And simply put other sides have more of them
These blokes perform at a high level week in and week out.
Then there is a gap
We have blokes that will come on in time …king..WM…long…windhager..Sharman
But in the meantime we have a group of blokes with talent that only use their talent from time to time and will be moved on .. if we had a recognised successful coach we could better gauge their input but unfortunately we don’t so we are left wondering
We all agree our midfield needs an overhaul. Until then I foresee some more whining and whinging …especially from me


It is my rite to whinge

[asiu]

also

example ... imo

these two bulls (coops 'n vortex) are rutting over
'perception'

(no interest in getting in the middle of it at all)

but

seeking accurate observation does lead to the doorway of

perception + discernment + participation

we (the sub standard mob of pretend footballers)
keep falling into the seemingly same hole

its inside the Entity
not outside of us

as is the Answer.

[Wayne42]

I think King would be better if he had another tall forward as a side kick to grab some of the defensive attention.

Gresham, well, maybe he is a forward pocket player, not a mid.

[asiu]

ps ,
thanx Aeon

[1966]

We are cooked.

Just resigned a tactically deficient coach for 2 years.

As per normal the GWS free agents aren’t even considering St Kilda.

No onfield leadership at all.

We are stuck with Jones, Butler and Higgins getting regular games when they are selfish undisciplined footballers.

Another 5 years before we compete. I’ll find something else do to I think.

[Teflon]

I see it like this we have two players in Sinclair and Wilkie
And simply put other sides have more of them
These blokes perform at a high level week in and week out.
Then there is a gap
We have blokes that will come on in time …king..WM…long…windhager..Sharman
But in the meantime we have a group of blokes with talent that only use their talent from time to time and will be moved on .. if we had a recognised successful coach we could better gauge their input but unfortunately we don’t so we are left wondering
We all agree our midfield needs an overhaul. Until then I foresee some more whining and whinging …especially from me


It is my rite to whinge

Good summation Firey I agree
What gets me though is the club internally are putting out …our windows about to open
WTF?
How can we have a Board and do-called footy experts so far off the mark it’s not funny
Our window is King, Windhager etc ….we’ll be lucky if we don’t stuff that up
Another 2 years these kids subjected to mediocre coaching …why would players want to come to a club knowing this!
Amon (suspect foot skills) and De Goey aren’t the answer
We are 3-5 years min away

[The_Dud]

King wasn’t bad last night, his effort looked good, but he is made to compete at a disadvantage nearly every time.

The coach picks the team, sets the gameplan, sets the standard and holds the team accountable.

Doesn’t seem like any of those 4 things are being done well.

[Sanctorum]

Once again it was entirely predictable that the usual "sack the coach" brigade were going to come out guns blazing after last night's debacle.

Can someone please tell me this: "was Ratten/Rath/assistants responsible for 16 - that is ALL bar 6 players, not laying a single tackle in the first half???"

I agree with commentators that the St Kilda players lack the mental toughness and discipline to play the game in a fashion where they are prepared to die for each other and apply fearsome pressure on the opposition ball carrier. That's a defect of the players, not the coaches.

I found it quite ironic to hear last night that the players had dedicated last night's game to their recently retired and beloved skipper Jarryn Geary. I couldn't help thinking afterwards that perhaps the players had decided to honour their former leader by playing in a way that was quite symptomatic of the team's performance in the years of Geary's captaincy!

[Teflon]

Once again it was entirely predictable that the usual "sack the coach" brigade were going to come out guns blazing after last night's debacle.

Can someone please tell me this: "was Ratten/Rath/assistants responsible for 16 - that is ALL bar 6 players, not laying a single tackle in the first half???"

I agree with commentators that the St Kilda players lack the mental toughness and discipline to play the game in a fashion where they are prepared to die for each other and apply fearsome pressure on the opposition ball carrier. That's a defect of the players, not the coaches.

I found it quite ironic to hear last night that the players had dedicated last night's game to their recently retired and beloved skipper Jarryn Geary. I couldn't help thinking afterwards that perhaps the players had decided to honour their former leader by playing in a way that was quite symptomatic of the team's performance in the years of Geary's captaincy!

So *yawn* yet again here comes the
“Nothing to see with coaching after 3 years here..” dribble
Honestly
You talk about a lack of discipline- who do you think instills that in a team ???
Good sides are well drilled , disciplined FFS go back to Lyon in 09 when we last had that
Players played with confidence- even role players, cause everyone had brought in to the standards the coaching group demanded
We are playing like a bottom 4 side after being 8-3 and STILL you’re making excuses for the coaching ?? It’s actually sad.
Ofcourse we have list holes but don’t tell me we are a well drilled well coached side - the players don’t believe in it you can see they’re not turning up FFS that’s on the coach

[The_Dud]

Once again it was entirely predictable that the usual "sack the coach" brigade were going to come out guns blazing after last night's debacle.

Can someone please tell me this: "was Ratten/Rath/assistants responsible for 16 - that is ALL bar 6 players, not laying a single tackle in the first half???"

I agree with commentators that the St Kilda players lack the mental toughness and discipline to play the game in a fashion where they are prepared to die for each other and apply fearsome pressure on the opposition ball carrier. That's a defect of the players, not the coaches.

I found it quite ironic to hear last night that the players had dedicated last night's game to their recently retired and beloved skipper Jarryn Geary. I couldn't help thinking afterwards that perhaps the players had decided to honour their former leader by playing in a way that was quite symptomatic of the team's performance in the years of Geary's captaincy!

Remember when Lyon dropped Milne and Dal Santo to send a message.

Why doesn’t Ratten ‘send a message’ if the players aren’t performing up to standard?

[Teflon]

Once again it was entirely predictable that the usual "sack the coach" brigade were going to come out guns blazing after last night's debacle.

Can someone please tell me this: "was Ratten/Rath/assistants responsible for 16 - that is ALL bar 6 players, not laying a single tackle in the first half???"

I agree with commentators that the St Kilda players lack the mental toughness and discipline to play the game in a fashion where they are prepared to die for each other and apply fearsome pressure on the opposition ball carrier. That's a defect of the players, not the coaches.

I found it quite ironic to hear last night that the players had dedicated last night's game to their recently retired and beloved skipper Jarryn Geary. I couldn't help thinking afterwards that perhaps the players had decided to honour their former leader by playing in a way that was quite symptomatic of the team's performance in the years of Geary's captaincy!

Remember when Lyon dropped Milne and Dal Santo to send a message.

Why doesn’t Ratten ‘send a message’ if the players aren’t performing up to standard?

EXACTLY
Who sets the tone??????
Cuddles is a nice bloke but not strong enough
Players know they can get a game by loafing out the back
It’s on the coach I can’t believe people don’t see that
I guarantee you HAD we recruited a Clarkson those player standards would’ve changed over night
We’ve now just signed up for 2 more years of it
Not good enough by this Board

[Sainternist]

I thought I took the loss on the chin well enough. We’ve seen St.Kilda teams fall to pieces plenty of times over the years. But boy it was disheartening to see so many fundamental errors and so little intensity for three quarters. It sure looked like most of the players’ cues were placed into their respective racks. I’m sorry, but there is big question hanging over the amount of effort applied last night. It was a gutless and witless display of football that I witnessed.

[samuraisaint]

Harden TF up the bloody lot of you.

Our undermanned midfield was eclipsed last night by a vastly superior lineup. They were missing some forwards, but that’s always less important than key midfielders, who they had in abundance. On top of that, we were missing a key defender, who I think most fans (except perhaps BM) now recognise as being a much more important player than they realised.

All this crap about game plans cannot disguise the fact that we have a terribly weak midfield, made even worse last night by the absence of Ross (another massively underrated player). It wouldn’t matter what game plan we might have tried last night: the game was a mismatch. Our only hope was that the Dogs would be off their game. Didn’t happen.

Our laughably weak midfield isn’t the fault of our current coaching staff or our current administration: it’s a dilemma their predecessors put them in. The solution is not going to be wholesale sackings. You could sack all the favourite whipping boys and it wouldn’t make the midfield one bit stronger. You can criticise Gresham all you like but, in the absence of any other midfield attacking threats, it’s an easy task for opponents to snuff him out.

Ratts isn’t perhaps the greatest coach on earth, but he’s not the worst either. Give him the cattle and he’ll do better. Getting them will be the difficult part. Owens and Windhager give some hope. I don’t think Byrnes or Bytel are going to amount to much. We somehow need to trade for better talent.

And, in the interim, as far as I am concerned, you bunch of catastrophising whinging snowflake moaners can take a running jump.

Great post, and very insightful post. I have posted similar thoughts in another thread. The truth is we are missing two important defenders; the other is our retired captain Geary. Geary and Howard play last night and it straightens us up.

Our midfield the way it structured up last night was weakened as we had one or two in the midfield last night, who, if it wasn't for the covid outbreak, wouldn't have played, and whenever those players are in the side the same thing happens; no pressure in the centre and the opposition just walk the ball through the middle of the ground. Embarrasing really.

Hannebery must come back into the seniors next week, and if Owens, DMac, Ross and Windhager can as well, the more the merrier. The first three quarters last night MUST not be repeated. And some or our forwards need to go back to Sandy to practice kicking. We could have been closer in the last five minutes if they did their job too.

[samoht]

Owens and Windhager have to come in at the expense of our small forwards, who are just finishers - they don't win their own ball - and rely too much on being at the end of good play or a fluky bounce.
Our 2 specialist small forwards have had odd good games - but it's not repeatable against good sides.

We can't afford passengers.

Time for the young ones to get a full block of games - all the remaining games this year.

[Sanctorum]

Remember when Lyon dropped Milne and Dal Santo to send a message.

Why doesn’t Ratten ‘send a message’ if the players aren’t performing up to standard?

I thought that would be obvious Dud, Saints had a much stronger list back then, a core of elite players apart from Milne and Dal - Ratten has bugger all....simple as that!

[The_Dud]

Remember when Lyon dropped Milne and Dal Santo to send a message.

Why doesn’t Ratten ‘send a message’ if the players aren’t performing up to standard?

I thought that would be obvious Dud, Saints had a much stronger list back then, a core of elite players apart from Milne and Dal - Ratten has bugger all....simple as that!

The point isn’t about how good the list is, it’s about holding players accountable.

[asiu]

Time for the young ones to get a full block of games - all the remaining games this year.

we'll get flogged
but

agreed


i'd put ben long into the centre crew
'n tell him

this is your spot ... make it your own

rest in the forward line

[Vortex]

This current form slump is squarely on the players, it's either players not up to it or not caring and giving effort, or both. The midfield is atrocious, needs gutting and starting again. Got to get Gresham out of the midfield, need to trade Buttler and Higgins out of the club and maybe give Gresham a go in forward line and see if crab legs and crab kicks around the body work better near the goal but they certainly have no place in a midfield.

[Toy Saint]

Yeah, our midfield is atrocious.

Our midfield would be stronger with Blake Acres and Luke Dunstan. Quite frankly I'd still prefer to have Acres ahead of Brad Hill.

And of course we chose Paddy McCartin ahead of Petracca...

[Yorkeys]

Coach says its the players
players say its the coach
Board says its the players and coach and football department
President says don't ask me, I delegate. And didn't we just announce how successful BR is, get with the program.
Fans say we don't care whose causing the train wreck, just get the show on track. Are you all paralysed with myopic indecision.
Jarryn says thank goodness that's over.

[SaintPav]

Whatever you say oh enlightenment one….

Complaining about the whiners.

Just priceless……

Om

Om

Yeah it’s funny stuff but oh so predictable and same drivel
Saints dish up more pathetic dribble on field
Supporters rightly react
24 hrs later….out come the “blue sky brigade” screaming …”.its got nothing to do with Brett…..for the past 3 years he mustve been busy doing other stuff..”

By end this week you’ll start to read on here..
“Actually I dont think we were that bad….a few good bounce of the balls…or a few of those junk time goals go through and we are right in it!”
Rinse repeat till next week
We just accept mediocrity
We don’t demand excellence
People don’t like facts
Our Board signed a coach WAY too early off a poor body of evidence who has us in exactly the same position 3 years into his tenure as Alan Richardson and playing a style of game plan that can’t transition a footy , bombs on forwards heads ….his only “big” trick is to put Membrey behind the ball late in games…..awesome moves Brett just awesome….how about switching up that Shyte midfield last night with say a Sinclsir ?? When the game needed to be won in the first???? …nice bloke , dud coach…2 more years of him.
Our recruiting of money ball types like Jones, Butler, Higgins, Wood (even Ryder/Crouch who have been good) has blown up in our faces…
Because we are now left in a situation where we are not not good enough to play finals and not bad enough to be North (yet)…..just where you don’t want to be as a club…no man’s land and back in the wilderness
We badly lack genuine class but who would want to come to a club going backwards run like this??
Lobb apparently us/Dogs have been into him…he’s already chosen Dogs…..smart….he’ll learn much more off Bevo (who shredded Rattens game plan with ease) than off Brett
Club needs a clean out - too many “nice boys” down there slapping each other on the back sipping latte’s
The thing that genuine irks me….
In a time we have record members
When costs are skyrocketing …
These millionaire frauds take the hard earned members dollars….treat us like idiots and go and re-sign Brett and do they really give a Shyte about us members who invest every week cause we actually give a Shyte???
Nup. Lethlean will still get in his Audi and ring his private school mates that he goes sailing with on weekends and he knows he’ll get a promotion as CEO and probably get his old desk back at AFL HQ if he hangs on long enough
We are being treated like fools and idiots like Mehebabblelots just “sheep” along
Embarrassing

f****** losers can’t play.

They never had the makings of a varsity athlete.

[Yorkeys]

FB: Paton Howard Wilkie
HB: Sinclair Battle Coffield/Highmore
C: NWM Steele DMac
HF Gresham Membrey Windhager
FF Billings King Sharman
Followers: Marshall Crouch Ross
IC: Campbell or Paddy; Clark, Long, Highmore or Bytel or Hill or Owens or Connolly
That line up should be expected to play finals.

FWIW, I don't buy the no cattle story - but having said that I do not rate Higgins*, Jones, Butler. For some reason the other good footballers are not performing anywhere near their capabilities.

* concussions seem to have taken a toll.

Selections seem lenient to serial non performers in some cases (Butler?) and harsh on others (Long?).
Coach that can't get a side to tackle and play with flair and passion is a worry.
Perhaps there is a back story.

[The Fireman]

I’d have long in every game his exclusion was worrying