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B.M wrote: ↑Sun 10 Jul 2022 1:02am
Just looked at the numbers
JB had 18 and 90 odd ranking points
Not sure his role, but doesn’t seem like he was the reason we lost
Nas had 14 as a Winger
Windhager had 7 as a HFF
I know they are kids, but you’ve still got to get it done.
Just looked a bit closer at the numbers…
Also…Let’s not get confused with what JB’s roles may have been in the past.
For this game, JB lined up on one wing and Nas was on the other
Both had 3 score involvements and only 1 guy actually kicked a goal. Both had exactly the same effective disposals (when you take DE into account…which you have to do!)
This is a guy who has played 150 versus a kid who has played under 10 games.
A great VFL player thats about it im afraid.
Has no value now if we were to trade him should have done when Injectors showed interest in him.
An absolute Marshmellow.
BOOM BOOM
I think what is most disappointing is that Billings actually did have a few years where he became a genuinely good midfielder.
Never a champion, but in our top 2-3 midfielders - probably behind only Jack Steven at one point, and certainly so in the 2017-2019 period.
In 2019, he averaged 25.7 touches per game. Genuinely very good numbers, reflected by him winning 11 Brownlow votes.
The decline since has been stark. Not only is he getting it less, but he's having less of an impact. He seems to lack the confidence to take the game on.
It's been disappointing, for him and for us. There's another three years to run on his contract (which was 'below' market value but now seems above market value) and whilst I think he can become much more effective, just as Seb Ross has done this year, those 2019 highs feel a long way behind him right now.
It could be argued that Jack Billings' failure to progress beyond a FAQ AFL player is as a result of St Kilda's deplorable record in developing its young recruits in the past 10 years, just consider how many years it has taken Seb Ross, Jack Sinclair and Dan McKenzie to become above average....the jury is out on Jade Gresham who at 24 should be at his peak but to me appears quite a way from that....
It looks most unlikely that JB at almost 27 is going to ever be more than average/borderline which seems a terrible waste of a pick 3!
The worry for me is that the same thing could happen to the very promising young fellas - Max King, Wanganeen-Milera, Windhager and Owens because unless new Development Coach Matt Carroll can work some magic they may be destined to stagnate and not achieve their full potential.
"Any candidate for political office, once chosen for leadership, must have the will to take the wheel of a very powerful car, tasked from time to time to make a fast journey down a narrow, precipitous mountain road – and be highly skilled at driving. Otherwise, he is disqualified from the company of competent leaders."
John Carroll, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at La Trobe University.
meher baba wrote: ↑Sun 10 Jul 2022 6:28am
The suggestion that Billings was a significant factor in our loss to Freo is ludicrous.
If the guy had been taken at pick 30, way behind the Bont, he wouldn’t be a target of fans.
Lots of early draft picks don’t work out. JB is an early draft pick who has turned out to be a reasonable quality AFL player who has played 150 games. He’s never going to be a superstar, but we could have done a lot worse.
It’s a simple question of whether he is playing close to, at or above expectations.
He’s in the team to perform to a particular standard. Those standards differ substantially from player to player.
Expectation on Steele, Crouch and Ross for example are much higher than a guy like Windy
I would think that in any reasonable discussion, it would be universally accepted that Billings isn’t performing to the standard that his skill, experience and salary indicates he should be.
He is in the team to be an A-Grade player. Not elite necessarily but certainly should be consistently having good games.
skeptic wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jul 2022 3:03pm
It’s a simple question of whether he is playing close to, at or above expectations.
He’s in the team to perform to a particular standard. Those standards differ substantially from player to player.
Expectation on Steele, Crouch and Ross for example are much higher than a guy like Windy
I would think that in any reasonable discussion, it would be universally accepted that Billings isn’t performing to the standard that his skill, experience and salary indicates he should be.
He is in the team to be an A-Grade player. Not elite necessarily but certainly should be consistently having good games.
Exactly! Once you reach 150 games then I think there’s been enough longevity in the game to make an accurate assessment of the players. To compare him to a guy who has only played just over 10 games is peculiar.
Having said that, accumulated possessions is only one metric to judge a player. I’m shocked that JB got 90 SC points. I think the people at Fantasy Footy would be embarrassed. NWM , whilst patchy, still, in my view, had more impact on the game than JB.
He was brought to the club with big wraps, claiming that he'd be a super-damaging, game-breaking half forward with lethal kicking and the ability to play impactful bursts through the midfield. What we're seeing at the moment is a purely outside HF/wing with technically sound kicking but he goes for the safest option every time, struggles to convert set shots and cannot hold his own in a contested situation. He looks like he is terrified of making mistakes.
I've always wanted to see him have a crack at playing half back and encouraged to go for difficult kicks but our list is full of half backs and he'd be well behind a few. You've got to wonder what he could've been if he had have developed under the wing of an arrogant bastard like Dusty or Dangerfield and in a club with a winning environment.
skeptic wrote: ↑Mon 11 Jul 2022 3:03pm
It’s a simple question of whether he is playing close to, at or above expectations.
He’s in the team to perform to a particular standard. Those standards differ substantially from player to player.
Expectation on Steele, Crouch and Ross for example are much higher than a guy like Windy
I would think that in any reasonable discussion, it would be universally accepted that Billings isn’t performing to the standard that his skill, experience and salary indicates he should be.
He is in the team to be an A-Grade player. Not elite necessarily but certainly should be consistently having good games.
What a load of rubbish. He’s in the team if he’s better than alternative selections. Rumour has it that his salary is not especially high. He’s delivering a reasonable amount. As I’ve said before, if he hadn’t been taken ahead of the Bont at pick 3, you and others wouldn’t be as harsh on him.
He’s not one of our main problems.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
My biggest issue with Billings is when he gets the ball in space. He seems to always go back behind the mark.
There has been stages where he has been 40m in the clear and waited for an opposition to come and take the mark. Rarely if ever does he take a mark and go.
The game always seems to slow when he gets the ball (and not in a good way)
