Bye bye Ratten!

[Gershwin]

Who would we replace him with?

We advertise the position.
We interview the applicants.
We choose the best available.

It ain’t hard.

[Teflon]

If Clarko came to StK (never gonna happen!)

But if he did

Does that guarantee success?!

What happens if he is no better than he was at Hawthorn in his last few years

What do we do then? Close the doors on the joint?

Or blame him for being a poor coach?

Nothing guarantees success stupid question
I watch what Mitchell has done at Hawks - he’s brought a game plan and a style that’s exciting and will see them fly past us.
Compare that to our style
We scratch, fight, fumble, bomb , scramble for every passage of play or goal - this current “style” makes the cane harder than it needs to be
Sure, we are carrying some duds….but the players haven’t all suddenly lost their ability
If 1 or 2 are off you put it at players feet
This is the entire side - that’s coaching
We need to change

[Teflon]

Who would we replace him with?

We advertise the position.
We interview the applicants.
We choose the best available.

It ain’t hard.

Exactly
Why would we not do that as a matter of good governance abd corporate responsibility??
It’s just so unprofessional to re-sign Ratten of his current body of work
He should not have been given any assurances and if he has been Bassat should go

[B.M]

Hawthorn?

They are BOG average

We beat them by 10 goals

Where are they on the ladder?

[B.M]

BTW

It was a rhetorical question

[Teflon]

Hawthorn?

They are BOG average

We beat them by 10 goals

Where are they on the ladder?

Are they?
And we are top 4 ahead them right now yeah???
I can see Hawthorn flying past this rabble in a season or 2
Just like Pies have with McCrae abs a decent system
Are you that simplistic that you can’t differentiate a side that’s rebuilding vs supposed September contender in Saints???
Odd

[shanegrambeau]

For all the frustration (mine included), does anyone know what it is that Ratts is or isn’t doing?

I realise that in EPL, their coaches, which they call managers, get sacked all the time.

Everton were so appalled with their low standing, they fired their manager this season, got a new one, and just managed to avoid relegation.

[Teflon]

Good BF post sums it

Sydney play system footy. Everyone knows their role. So do most good sides. We look like under 9s all running in every direction bumping into each other while the ball goes end to end. There seems to be no system at all other than if you get the ball, * around for a long time then when there are no options left ahead bomb it.

[Teflon]

This might be our problem from BF
So genius Rath thinks our game plan should be to not have any set plan…..sorta let players choose their own adventure??? WTF
No wonder when you play a systems based side like Swans you look stupid….explains a lot !!



"Our philosophy, I suppose, is that it's a game, so
it should be played," Rath added.
And if we're talking about playing, then
there's a sense of creativity and a
sense of probing the opposition to see
what they give you and then
responding to that rather than having a
set plan.

"We want our players to be able to make
decisions and we're really trying to empower
to do that."

David Rath


The theory is that we will be unpredictable, which will screw up the opposition's defensive structures.

In practice though all that happens is that it screws up OUR offensive structures.


Unpredictability is a double edged sword.

Sure, the opposition don't know what you're gonna do next.... but neither do your teammates ffs.


All we get with this '"no system IS the system" approach by rath and ratts is headless chooks launching long moonballs and blind panic disposals.

It works against:
A. crap teams and
B. half decent teams when they sit off us and don't pressure.

But it almost always turns to custard against:
A. decent teams and
B. half decent teams which put our ball carrier under a lot of sustained pressure.

It simply does not work, clearly ratts and rath are wedded to it though.

Credit to them for trying to break the mould a little and innovate, but the writing is on the wall- it doesn't beat a well organised and drilled team.

God I hope the club have the stones to accept that we've tried and failed with ratts and rath- time to throw 20 kitchen sinks at a guy who will give our guys a system... clarko

[SaintPav]

I don’t know if they should axe Brett or if Clarko is the answer, but some significant changes need to be made at the end of the season.

BTW I thought Rath was some kind of strategic genius?

It doesn’t sound like it.

[Teflon]

And this is exactly why Ratten is cooked:



Good teams are well drilled and have their Plan As, Bs and Cs so that they can act without thinking. They just know where their team mates will be, as everyone knows there role, and they can all work together as a TEAM.

The just react and DO. They do not have to think. This means that they act quickly.


Whereas we are STOP and PROP. Players never really know where their team mates are and is alos why our forward line entries have largely been so poor this season.

We lack elite mids, as we have done so for years. Way too often we recruit non-mids with the idea that we can turn them into mids. ie Billings, Coffield, Clark, Jones, Gresham.... If Windy and Owens do not step up next season we are going to be in for a world of hurt.

In an era when more and more teams have two key forwards. We have one, and we waste him by not having him lead and in always allowing an outnumber on him.

With teams like the Lions, Blues, Swans all adding more of the right type of class we are in big trouble moving forward. Dogs should be better, but just have not been able to get their key forwards and backs right.

[Teflon]

I don’t know if they should axe Brett or if Clarko is the answer, but some significant changes need to be made at the end of the season.

BTW I thought Rath was some kind of strategic genius?

It doesn’t sound like it.

Apparently Rath did t have as much say under Clarkson as he does under Ratten
Why is that?
I think Ratts struggles re game plan so relies on him
IF we have signed him we are incompetent and deserve Tassie

[nobhead]

This might be our problem from BF
So genius Rath thinks our game plan should be to not have any set plan…..sorta let players choose their own adventure??? WTF
No wonder when you play a systems based side like Swans you look stupid….explains a lot !!



"Our philosophy, I suppose, is that it's a game, so
it should be played," Rath added.
And if we're talking about playing, then
there's a sense of creativity and a
sense of probing the opposition to see
what they give you and then
responding to that rather than having a
set plan.

"We want our players to be able to make
decisions and we're really trying to empower
to do that."

David Rath


The theory is that we will be unpredictable, which will screw up the opposition's defensive structures.

In practice though all that happens is that it screws up OUR offensive structures.


Unpredictability is a double edged sword.

Sure, the opposition don't know what you're gonna do next.... but neither do your teammates ffs.


All we get with this '"no system IS the system" approach by rath and ratts is headless chooks launching long moonballs and blind panic disposals.

It works against:
A. crap teams and
B. half decent teams when they sit off us and don't pressure.

But it almost always turns to custard against:
A. decent teams and
B. half decent teams which put our ball carrier under a lot of sustained pressure.

It simply does not work, clearly ratts and rath are wedded to it though.

Credit to them for trying to break the mould a little and innovate, but the writing is on the wall- it doesn't beat a well organised and drilled team.

God I hope the club have the stones to accept that we've tried and failed with ratts and rath- time to throw 20 kitchen sinks at a guy who will give our guys a system... clarko

WOW!! Thats what they are running with.no wonder we are screwed.

[Teflon]

It’s scary
But Rath has too much say
Even Thomas on Twitter went nuts after game alluding to it
Tells me Ratten hasn’t got much of an idea - his post match video was laughable when he said “back to the drawing board”

[Impatient Sainter]

It’s scary
But Rath has too much say
Even Thomas on Twitter went nuts after game alluding to it
Tells me Ratten hasn’t got much of an idea - his post match video was laughable when he said “back to the drawing board”

Tony74 has said exactly that, that Rath has far too much say! Rath needs to be moved on quickly or told to STFU and get him out of the box, if Ratten is to save his skin. The trouble is I think Ratts is a loyal individual and that may to be own his detriment, unless Lethlean makes the decision for him.

[shanegrambeau]

It’s scary
But Rath has too much say
Even Thomas on Twitter went nuts after game alluding to it
Tells me Ratten hasn’t got much of an idea - his post match video was laughable when he said “back to the drawing board”

Tony74 has said exactly that, that Rath has far too much say! Rath needs to be moved on quickly or told to STFU and get him out of the box, if Ratten is to save his skin. The trouble is I think Ratts is a loyal individual and that may to be own his detriment, unless Lethlean makes the decision for him.

Is this turning into a Sheldon-Hudson thing?

[Teflon]

It’s scary
But Rath has too much say
Even Thomas on Twitter went nuts after game alluding to it
Tells me Ratten hasn’t got much of an idea - his post match video was laughable when he said “back to the drawing board”

Tony74 has said exactly that, that Rath has far too much say! Rath needs to be moved on quickly or told to STFU and get him out of the box, if Ratten is to save his skin. The trouble is I think Ratts is a loyal individual and that may to be own his detriment, unless Lethlean makes the decision for him.

Is this turning into a Sheldon-Hudson thing?

It’s got traces of Pelchen too
Rath not a football background he comes from Champion Data - that’s fine but he shouldn’t be driving the game plan
He didn’t at Hawks - Clarkson did (Clarko used him for stat analysis)
I think Brett might struggle tactics wise and leans too much on Rath
Players look totally confused- how else do you describe our schizophrenic game plan….one minute run n gun….next stop, prop, sideways, backwards eventually down the line…lose contest watch oppo bring it back via corridor and score. Rinse/repeat
I’d be demanding that IF the club has signed Ratten that Rath goes and Mark Williams is brought in to oversee football operations next 2 years
He’s smart , footy smart Williams and everywhere he’s gone has yielded results

[repta]

Ratten dropped an envelope after the game on Saturday was headed Game Plan B

Unfortunately the Contents just had a single page stating

"Refer Plan A"

[B.M]

Wasn’t Rath involved with strategy at Hawthorn during their 3 peat?

Has he only become hopeless since joining StK

Again question
Why do coaches fail at StK

[seano1]

I know he doesn’t have a cupboard full of premiership medallions but Longmire gets his team going…..well drilled, always look desperate to get to the pill ……not like us

[Wayne42]

Lethlean obviously hasn't read Big Footy...

St Kilda Chief Operating Officer Simon Lethlean says the club is pressing ahead with talks over a new deal for coach Brett Ratten.

Lethlean is confident that Ratten, who comes out of contract at the end of the season, is the right man to take the club forward.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/06/26/ ... t-de-goey/

[SaintDippa]

We'll find out Friday night if he's the right man.
Hopefully he spent yesterday with the coaches watching replays of Blues last three wins and last three losses and worked them out.
Looking forward to Friday. Hopefully he instructs faster ball movement. To save his career.
Sainters by 40. Max 15 grabs, kicks 7.8. Season resuscitated.

[Impatient Sainter]

Lethlean obviously hasn't read Big Footy...

St Kilda Chief Operating Officer Simon Lethlean says the club is pressing ahead with talks over a new deal for coach Brett Ratten.

Lethlean is confident that Ratten, who comes out of contract at the end of the season, is the right man to take the club forward.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/06/26/ ... t-de-goey/

Wayne I can understand his sentiment, but for me 5 weeks ago there warning signs. Then Ratten tried to be far too cute against Melbourne and the players have fallen off a cliff since. They look confused and have no clear plan in how to move the ball forward.

Lethlean is obviously at the club daily and sees Ratten operate (most likely has a strong friendship with him), I wonder if he is removed enough to be making those decisions given our current diabolical form?

[Wayne42]

Lethlean obviously hasn't read Big Footy...

St Kilda Chief Operating Officer Simon Lethlean says the club is pressing ahead with talks over a new deal for coach Brett Ratten.

Lethlean is confident that Ratten, who comes out of contract at the end of the season, is the right man to take the club forward.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/06/26/ ... t-de-goey/

Wayne I can understand his sentiment, but for me 5 weeks ago there warning signs. Then Ratten tried to be far too cute against Melbourne and the players have fallen off a cliff since. They look confused and have no clear plan in how to move the ball forward.

Lethlean is obviously at the club daily and sees Ratten operate (most likely has a strong friendship with him), I wonder if he is removed enough to be making those decisions given our current diabolical form?

Our current form is diabolical, it's a pity we don't know the gist of the discussions had between Ratten, Rath and Lethlean after the now weekly evidence of the wheels having fallen off and nothing seemingly
obvious being done about it.

I just hope these meetings also involve Gags and list management as the list is now in need of some serious management, but only if success is something the Saints would like to embrace, at some point.

[Darth Vader]

It’s interesting that when Bassat mentioned they were looking to extend Ratten a few weeks ago, and Lethlean on SEN today, neither of them said he’s an outstanding coach. They said ‘we want to keep the coaching group together’.

Lethlean’s comments today (not in so many words and with some serious reading between the lines) were:

- the coach is the biggest chunk of the soft cap
- an inexperienced coach costs less but needs more support (senior assistant coaches, mentors etc) which uses lots of cap space
- a successful experienced coach costs more which uses lots of cap space
- Ratten is unsuccessful (so is cheap) but experienced (so doesn’t need so much support) which leaves more cap space for other stuff like fitness and development

This is why we want to keep this coaching group together - more cap space. I got the sense that Ratten’s actual capabilities were irrelevant as long as the players love him.

Need to use all our draft picks and choose well, no more recycled trades, free agents only as top-ups, for this to have any chance of success.