Shaman , have to keep playing him.

[Crossy66]

He’s a one trick pony. Jumps for ball. Couple of times he didn’t body line the ball in marking contest. Unacceptable. I would think one of the first in line to be dropped

Geez 1 game and leave Dan Butler in again??
No wonder we learn nothing

ShArman should never have played. Tonight just ended that arguement. Barely VFL standard and so far off AFL.
If he wants to play AFL he has to bang the door down at VFL first.

[HardSaint]

I think youre being a bit rough there on young Cooper

He was indicative of the whole team and had we had a functional team out there with structures and experienced players leading by example, Sharman's errors could have been put in context, If anything he tried too hard, in absense of anything on offer from the team as a whole

I dont think on tonought;s performace there were many players who "should have played" if if they could have

[Wayne42]

At least now everyone realises Sharman is flawed, i'd play him again against Carlton because sending him back to Sandy won't help him at all.

The other reason i'd persist with him is because we have no one else. Our list management has left too many holes. The cupboard is bare, especially after Hayes got hurt.

[Crossy66]

I think youre being a bit rough there on young Cooper

He was indicative of the whole team and had we had a functional team out there with structures and experienced players leading by example, Sharman's errors could have been put in context, If anything he tried too hard, in absense of anything on offer from the team as a whole

I dont think on tonought;s performace there were many players who "should have played" if if they could have

Not at all. He was the worst player on the ground by a mile, dropped marks, clangers ootf, ZERO tackles, can't chase. But the point is he hasn't done anything at VFL level to warrant selection in the first place. Just a dumb selection.

[skeptic]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

[HardSaint]

see here's the thing
how would he go in a good team?

we saw how the disappointing and frustrating PaddyMc Cartin went tonight

[Crossy66]

see here's the thing
how would he go in a good team?

we saw how the disappointing and frustrating PaddyMc Cartin went tonight

He wouldn't get picked in a good team because he would be required to earn his spot in the first place.

[Devilhead]

Sharman spent half the night in the ruck ... pretty much never having played that position .... once again King is then our only tall target

Match Committee are fkn idiots ..... scratching their thick heads wondering why we aren't scoring

Makes me sick to the core watching nearly every other team go in with 3 permanent tall forwards - the 3 teams that won today

Carlton - McKay, Curnow, Silvagni
Geelong - Cameron, Hawkins, Henry
Sydney - Franklin, Reid, McDonald

[Teflon]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

We’ll said
Brain dead twits potting Sharman and letting our “leaders” off the hook
Sharman is a piece of the puzzle for future- not the messiah
We need him to come good to be the true 2nd lead up forward option that Membrey can’t be
You develop him - you don’t bring him in 1 game then drop him cause a guy in game 7 did t save the whole team who were Shyte
Dumb thinking
I’d be looking at Jones, Billings, Ross, Webster etc before potting Sharman

[Moods]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

We’ll said
Brain dead twits potting Sharman and letting our “leaders” off the hook
Sharman is a piece of the puzzle for future- not the messiah
We need him to come good to be the true 2nd lead up forward option that Membrey can’t be
You develop him - you don’t bring him in 1 game then drop him cause a guy in game 7 did t save the whole team who were Shyte
Dumb thinking
I’d be looking at Jones, Billings, Ross, Webster etc before potting Sharman

Watch the game again. If he’s running straight at the ball he’ll jump at it with confidence, not withstanding he jumped under it a couple of times. Coming in from an angle he reaches for the ball not committing his body. That tells me one of two things I) he’s concerned about body contact or ii) he’s completely devoid of confidence. Either way, he was swatted away in the contests like a fly.

I agree that senior players need to take responsibility and I’m certainly not blaming Sharman for the loss, (ie wtf has happened to Membery lately?) but this thread was about Sharman and how we need to persist with him. What exactly from tonight’s game did people glean that possessed them to start a thread talking up one of the worst players on the ground??

[Lennylegs]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

100% agree. People coming after Sharman and Max King is just absurd. Can think of ten other players who are more senior and more indicative of our current malaise.

I've said it a thousand times. We're an average football team when we don't play with dare and run from behind. We don't have the kicks in our side to play slow, methodical, up-the-line football. What we do have is players who take the game on from half back and back their pace through the midfield.

If Ratts isn't teaching that every week, then he's daft. Which I don't think he is. This side is just so flaky when it comes to confidence. We don't have enough successful seasons, if any, where we've gotten the results to trust our ability and game style.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're a top four side with this list. But we're a hell of a lot better than what we're showing at the moment.

[Scollop]

I think if we go down the playing the kids route

White flag has gone up

Because at the moment they are only bit part AFL players

And we’ll get more touch ups like tonight

So ….

…you think we should go for broke and try and win some silverware this year?

I’d love to see how you turn this around. Something stinks at RSEA

We’ve all seen how well Cooper was kicking his set shots from 45-50 metres out prior to tonight. We saw how well he was holding on to his marks prior to tonight. His game was symbolic of how we are going as a team.

[Vortex]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

100% agree. People coming after Sharman and Max King is just absurd. Can think of ten other players who are more senior and more indicative of our current malaise.

I've said it a thousand times. We're an average football team when we don't play with dare and run from behind. We don't have the kicks in our side to play slow, methodical, up-the-line football. What we do have is players who take the game on from half back and back their pace through the midfield.

If Ratts isn't teaching that every week, then he's daft. Which I don't think he is. This side is just so flaky when it comes to confidence. We don't have enough successful seasons, if any, where we've gotten the results to trust our ability and game style.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're a top four side with this list. But we're a hell of a lot better than what we're showing at the moment.

Heaps of players in the gun but it's fairly obvious Sharman is way out of his depth at the level. He's got the turning circle of the titanic so he looks all at sea when he comes up the ground and there is some ground ball to chase. He looks magnificent running in straight lines and floating in from behind or from the side of a contest to take a mark using his height and long arms. He's the Dougal Howard of the forward line.

I don't think we'll ever see him attend a ruck contest again, and it's probably going to take a while for him to get another AFL call up, I don't expect to see him play AFL again this season.

And that's not to suggest he is a slow learner, it's more a reflection of how poor the standard is at VFL presently which is due to issues from the Pandemic still impacting the 2nd tier comps across all states. Some of the stories I'm hearing are dire. But anyway that is why more than ever players like Sharman look like rock stars at VFL level.

So on this insistence the AFL level is where Sharman should stay to learn his craft, not a realistic option when you are so far out of your depth.

[spert]

Imagine when recruiting Sharman, we said he would be playing in the ruck..I would think his response would be WTF

[Lennylegs]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

100% agree. People coming after Sharman and Max King is just absurd. Can think of ten other players who are more senior and more indicative of our current malaise.

I've said it a thousand times. We're an average football team when we don't play with dare and run from behind. We don't have the kicks in our side to play slow, methodical, up-the-line football. What we do have is players who take the game on from half back and back their pace through the midfield.

If Ratts isn't teaching that every week, then he's daft. Which I don't think he is. This side is just so flaky when it comes to confidence. We don't have enough successful seasons, if any, where we've gotten the results to trust our ability and game style.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're a top four side with this list. But we're a hell of a lot better than what we're showing at the moment.

Heaps of players in the gun but it's fairly obvious Sharman is way out of his depth at the level. He's got the turning circle of the titanic so he looks all at sea when he comes up the ground and there is some ground ball to chase. He looks magnificent running in straight lines and floating in from behind or from the side of a contest to take a mark using his height and long arms. He's the Dougal Howard of the forward line.

I don't think we'll ever see him attend a ruck contest again, and it's probably going to take a while for him to get another AFL call up, I don't expect to see him play AFL again this season.

And that's not to suggest he is a slow learner, it's more a reflection of how poor the standard is at VFL presently which is due to issues from the Pandemic still impacting the 2nd tier comps across all states. Some of the stories I'm hearing are dire. But anyway that is why more than ever players like Sharman look like rock stars at VFL level.

So on this insistence the AFL level is where Sharman should stay to learn his craft, not a realistic option when you are so far out of your depth.

Least of our worries at the moment, mate. Honestly. Max King looked like a VFL player last night.

[Vortex]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

100% agree. People coming after Sharman and Max King is just absurd. Can think of ten other players who are more senior and more indicative of our current malaise.

I've said it a thousand times. We're an average football team when we don't play with dare and run from behind. We don't have the kicks in our side to play slow, methodical, up-the-line football. What we do have is players who take the game on from half back and back their pace through the midfield.

If Ratts isn't teaching that every week, then he's daft. Which I don't think he is. This side is just so flaky when it comes to confidence. We don't have enough successful seasons, if any, where we've gotten the results to trust our ability and game style.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're a top four side with this list. But we're a hell of a lot better than what we're showing at the moment.

Heaps of players in the gun but it's fairly obvious Sharman is way out of his depth at the level. He's got the turning circle of the titanic so he looks all at sea when he comes up the ground and there is some ground ball to chase. He looks magnificent running in straight lines and floating in from behind or from the side of a contest to take a mark using his height and long arms. He's the Dougal Howard of the forward line.

I don't think we'll ever see him attend a ruck contest again, and it's probably going to take a while for him to get another AFL call up, I don't expect to see him play AFL again this season.

And that's not to suggest he is a slow learner, it's more a reflection of how poor the standard is at VFL presently which is due to issues from the Pandemic still impacting the 2nd tier comps across all states. Some of the stories I'm hearing are dire. But anyway that is why more than ever players like Sharman look like rock stars at VFL level.

So on this insistence the AFL level is where Sharman should stay to learn his craft, not a realistic option when you are so far out of your depth.

Least of our worries at the moment, mate. Honestly. Max King looked like a VFL player last night.

How many kids did we have playing with under 30 to 50 games, how many did we have with under 10. AFL quality is the problem and Sharman is part of that problem.

King is a very unique but arguably more concerning issue. Giving up mid contest is a mental weakness that has no place on an AFL field. Has never been tolerated by any coach in the history of the game. It's a shame he's going to be playing at Sandy next week because it only exaserbates our main issue of not having enough AFL grade players.

One thing is for sure, it's going to be a very small forward line against the Blues, Higgins will be our FF.

[mad saint guy]

Doesn't get much tougher for a raw, young key forward than a game where his team is absolutely mauled at the ridiculously small ground that is the SCG. Especially when kicking to a lead isn't part of the game plan.

He didn't have a good game but he did come very close to taking some epic marks and he busted some packs open. No one else presented at the footy with the same intent in that game

[Vortex]

Doesn't get much tougher for a raw, young key forward than a game where his team is absolutely mauled at the ridiculously small ground that is the SCG. Especially when kicking to a lead isn't part of the game plan.

He didn't have a good game but he did come very close to taking some epic marks and he busted some packs open. No one else presented at the footy with the same intent in that game

See this is why Sharmans's legend is excessively disproportionate to his actual ability. Claiming he split the packs open sounds fantastic, but it was very poor play by a kid who isn't up to the standard, not only did he fly for the same ball as King who actually had every right to be in the contest, really all he was doing was going for a cheap flashy mark from behind a pack. It looks fantastic when it comes off. He cant do the basics and he can't do the basics incredibly poorly. He's not going to make the grade at this stage without a mountain of learning his craft VFL level and even then I don't think he will.

And Crickey if he makes the grade it will be because the coaches have found a game plan that fits his very limited skill set. He has the turning circle of tbe titanic and is useless below is kneees and he refused to chase and tackle so there is no way he can be a forward that plays up the ground.

It's time we get realistic about what this kid can and can't do.

[Lennylegs]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

100% agree. People coming after Sharman and Max King is just absurd. Can think of ten other players who are more senior and more indicative of our current malaise.

I've said it a thousand times. We're an average football team when we don't play with dare and run from behind. We don't have the kicks in our side to play slow, methodical, up-the-line football. What we do have is players who take the game on from half back and back their pace through the midfield.

If Ratts isn't teaching that every week, then he's daft. Which I don't think he is. This side is just so flaky when it comes to confidence. We don't have enough successful seasons, if any, where we've gotten the results to trust our ability and game style.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're a top four side with this list. But we're a hell of a lot better than what we're showing at the moment.

Heaps of players in the gun but it's fairly obvious Sharman is way out of his depth at the level. He's got the turning circle of the titanic so he looks all at sea when he comes up the ground and there is some ground ball to chase. He looks magnificent running in straight lines and floating in from behind or from the side of a contest to take a mark using his height and long arms. He's the Dougal Howard of the forward line.

I don't think we'll ever see him attend a ruck contest again, and it's probably going to take a while for him to get another AFL call up, I don't expect to see him play AFL again this season.

And that's not to suggest he is a slow learner, it's more a reflection of how poor the standard is at VFL presently which is due to issues from the Pandemic still impacting the 2nd tier comps across all states. Some of the stories I'm hearing are dire. But anyway that is why more than ever players like Sharman look like rock stars at VFL level.

So on this insistence the AFL level is where Sharman should stay to learn his craft, not a realistic option when you are so far out of your depth.

Least of our worries at the moment, mate. Honestly. Max King looked like a VFL player last night.

How many kids did we have playing with under 30 to 50 games, how many did we have with under 10. AFL quality is the problem and Sharman is part of that problem.

King is a very unique but arguably more concerning issue. Giving up mid contest is a mental weakness that has no place on an AFL field. Has never been tolerated by any coach in the history of the game. It's a shame he's going to be playing at Sandy next week because it only exaserbates our main issue of not having enough AFL grade players.

One thing is for sure, it's going to be a very small forward line against the Blues, Higgins will be our FF.

Been at plenty of football clubs where the selectors start potting the younger players for the sins of senior players. Creates a pretty toxic environment. Would like to think our match committee is smart enough not to drop a 21 year old match winner due to some of the worst ball movement I've ever seen.

Again, Max's behaviour last night says more to me about the lack of expectations and standards from our leaders than anything else. It would've never happened when Rooey was starting out because we had the type of leaders who were strong and demanding enough to never let that behaviour see the light of day.

Also, to suggest Max is mentally weak is pretty low ball. I dare say that having to carry an AFL side at 21 years old is far from mentally weak. Kid has had to deal with outsized expectations since he was about 15. Ridiculous assessment.

[Teflon]

Doesn't get much tougher for a raw, young key forward than a game where his team is absolutely mauled at the ridiculously small ground that is the SCG. Especially when kicking to a lead isn't part of the game plan.

He didn't have a good game but he did come very close to taking some epic marks and he busted some packs open. No one else presented at the footy with the same intent in that game

See this is why Sharmans's legend is excessively disproportionate to his actual ability. Claiming he split the packs open sounds fantastic, but it was very poor play by a kid who isn't up to the standard, not only did he fly for the same ball as King who actually had every right to be in the contest, really all he was doing was going for a cheap flashy mark from behind a pack. It looks fantastic when it comes off. He cant do the basics and he can't do the basics incredibly poorly. He's not going to make the grade at this stage without a mountain of learning his craft VFL level and even then I don't think he will.

And Crickey if he makes the grade it will be because the coaches have found a game plan that fits his very limited skill set. He has the turning circle of tbe titanic and is useless below is kneees and he refused to chase and tackle so there is no way he can be a forward that plays up the ground.

It's time we get realistic about what this kid can and can't do.

It’s not about his legend that’s just dross
We have a kid who is raw who was thrown in the ruck and who did at least move to the ball/crash a pack and try
He is not our issue
Silent Tim Membrey - where the fork are you Tim?????
Stupid midfielders like Zac Jones who just fumble turn it over or give away free kicks ….you would hate to be a forward in a side waiting for him to deliver it to you
Sharman may not make it but this team is treading water with the sane old beige players failing to stand up when you need them - we all know them
Butler
Jones
Membrey
Webster
Billing’s
Ross
These guys are meh AFL players who would not get games in top 4 sides let’s be real
Plus a coach who refuses to install a game plan that allows our forwards to lead up at the ball and insists on the long bomb strategy which is a failure
Much bigger issues than Sharman
Anyway season is cooked so keep playing the kid ffs and at least show some faith before we toss him aside after 1 total team Shyte game and suggest it’s his fault
We are good at destroying players confidence at St Kilda
Paddy McCsrtin now looks a star defender
Hickey a superstar ruck…
We are flogging Rowan Marshall….
Sharman least of the issues abd should be played

[older saint]

I see this pattern so often

Young player X comes in and looks promising
Easily dropped, erratic opportunity
Gets selected in a big game - onus for them to perform or they will be dropped
Entire team plays poor and he along with others crumble under pressure
Dropped and written off

One can’t make good decisions based on limited data and making snap decisions based off of particularly good or bad results is bad decision making.

You need a degree of consistency and opportunity to improve

IMO very little to be gained from tonight. We obviously have problems but we’re better than this. Now is the time to back our processes and fix the problems. Cooper Sharman isn’t close to the biggest problem or cause for this result.

Logical discussion made

I can't recall a player with less than 20 games who people have such a diverse opinion on. Some he is the second coming of George Young ( look it up younger people), for others he is a SANFL player.
To me he isn't a bets 22 yet. He is generally a good kick and exciting mark, but i am worried after a full pre season he hasn't developed upper body strength or even definition.
The delivery into the forward line last night by our second guessing mids and half backs was atrocious and Lockett, ablett, Loewe Milne, and Betts would have struggled with that.
give him another week with kpi's around second efforts, running targets etc. these will ensure he is contributing in multiple ways and learn what is needed, more than trying to take mark of the year

[wally]

How about the criticism of Acres when he played ruck, he still does at Freo. at times and gets credit and is going ok.
Sylvani did ok against us last time and is a better player now than a couple of years ago.
Sharman has only played what 10 games?

[SaintDippa]

Imagine playing in our forward line last night. More room in a peak hour train after two cancellations.
Shown to me has footy IQ.
No chance for top 8 so why drop?
With Ryder back I'd be hooking Butler or Jones before Sharman.

[beebarry]

Showed he can develop as FF. Can fly .

How? Showed he can jump tonight and that’s it. Looked destined to play 20-30 games in his career by tonight’s standards. Love how there are some players who can do no wrong on this forum. He was rubbish tonight (like everyone else).
The love for him and Highmore is hilarious.

Highmore at least put some consistent runs on the board last year. At this stage I would consider him and Lienart as genuine options considering our year is more or less over and we need to get games into them.

Sharman just looks so skinny and slow ....but there is something there ....not sure what at this stage....but some talent....who knows ? not any of us and certainly not the club ....they are obviously faking it at the moment ...making sh*t up as they go ...

[Crossy66]

I feel a bit for Cooper, I suspect most posters have issue with the fact he was selected in what was an 8 point, more so than him personally.
The best way to develop players(a few exceptions) is to educate them at the second level, build skills, size, confidence, maybe even one or two AFL games to keep them motivated .
Dropping them into such a massive game as last night can ruin them.
So go back to VFL, work on your game and when you are dominating every week, get the call up when you are right to go.