Team v Brisbane

[Beno88]

Brisbane have won 30 of their last 31 Home & Away games at the Gabba.

They've also scored 100+ in their last six games.

We need to be on for this one.

We won 5 of our last 7 against Brisbane in Queensland.

We've also won 8 of our last 12 at the Gabba.

[older saint]

Great position to be in with pressure form below:

Out: Sharman, Windy

In: Butler, Clark

Sharman while kicking a goal a game to me leaves us a little top heavy ( Marshall, King, Membrey) and i felt at times when the ball hit the deck north were able to exit easily. Structure up the ground saw it come back. Butler kicked 5 in the VFL and had a lot of it. I Like the kid but dont think he has done enough to retain a spot above Butler ATM
I felt Long was the main pressure forward and without Higgins and Butler it was a little too easy at times - Brisbane being able to leave the forward 50 easily will be an issue.

Clark probably would have played if not for Covid. He is a class player and in best 22 and needs to start building a base of games at AFL level. The younger guys will need rotations - as has already occurred. Yes off the bye so not the case her and I don't think he has done anything wrong but Clark needs to start playing AFL level and Windy seems the obvious change.

Pressure from below in the form of Brynnes ( becoming the Andy Bichel of Stkilda this season), Highmore, Billings. Lienert
Covid and injury will pop up. Paton has been exposed a little but very difficult to change the 3rd best defence in the AFL

Working on like for like then i don't see any changes - however i didn't see Billings out either so clearly coaches look at things we don't.

no Higgins mate?

Interesting one but will have missed 4 weeks of football by the time the next game comes around (only played a qtr v Geelong) so a run at Sandy to get touch back wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen

[stevie]

I listened to a fair bit of the lions/giants game while working The giants had a real crack and could almost have won it

[terry smith rules]

Surely Higgins and Clark can’t play, they would both be greatly underdone going into a game with against Bris who are filled with big strong bodied players

To beat Bris you have to shut down Neale and to a lesser extent Rich. Maybe Ross to Neale and Long to Rich

All of the Bris small forwards (McCarthy, Cameron and Bailey) play bigger than they are, so our match ups on those 3 are vital.

I worry about Paton, his disposal is ordinary (at best) and is he strong enough to take on any of the above forwards. Yes Cameron is light but he is brilliant at moving players out of contests

Just maybe #14 comes in to help counter these 3

Fqf

[Saintmike65]

I believe we will bring in Clark, Higgins & Butler. Who misses out are tough calls, but Sharman, Windhager & Owens.

Wow…massive call…I reckon 1 small forward needs to come in.
That’s it…keep the3 teenage amigo’s in!!!

[Saintmatt]

The game's 2 weeks away

I worry about Clark with his impact injuries.
Others have said he doesn't appear to have developed more muscle and looks fragile

Hunter's body type is clear endomorph (athletic, solid, and strong. Not overweight and not underweight. Both gain and lose weight without too much effort) Very much like Jeremy McGovern. It's a fairly unique body type for an elite athlete.

Most athletes are ectomorphs (long and lean, with little body fat, and little muscle. Have a hard time gaining weight unless through massive weight training and overreating).

Just because someone isn't cut (like 99% of his peers) doesn't mean they aren't strong. Also, courage is independent of muscle accumulation.

I'd rather have a gutsy, classy, not cut ball user like Hunter than say, a ball spraying plodder like Dunstan.

[ace]

If its not broke.....?

It's not woke

[nostalgicsaint]

Surely Higgins and Clark can’t play, they would both be greatly underdone going into a game with against Bris who are filled with big strong bodied players

To beat Bris you have to shut down Neale and to a lesser extent Rich. Maybe Ross to Neale and Long to Rich

All of the Bris small forwards (McCarthy, Cameron and Bailey) play bigger than they are, so our match ups on those 3 are vital.

I worry about Paton, his disposal is ordinary (at best) and is he strong enough to take on any of the above forwards. Yes Cameron is light but he is brilliant at moving players out of contests

Just maybe #14 comes in to help counter these 3

Fqf

My personal view was Higgins for Sharman and Butler for windy.

That said your post has me thinking about Geary to come in and sit on rich...

[meher baba]

I continue to ponder what the selectors might do next week: they will have quite a challenge working out what to do.

For me, the starting point is that we weren't much good against Adelaide or North Melbourne and, if we perform at the same level against the Lions, we will lost by 6-8 goals. For me, this means that there have to be changes, and that there's no room for sentiment.

Having said, that, I expect that both Owens and NWM will be selected. Owens for Billings saw a definite improvement in the midfield between the Crows game and the Roos game, and most of the options for replacing him (other than Bytel, who doesn't seem to be in the mix right now) can't deliver what he provides. And NWM had one of his better games against the Roos, and is starting to look like a permanent fixture in the team.

Windhager has also been doing really well, but I think his spot is slightly more open to competition. And more so Sharman, who has really only been so-so in his three games back. Other players who could conceivably be dropped IMO are Webster, Wood and Long. I see Paton gets mentioned each week by some posters as another potential out. But I think he provides something that no others can do other than perhaps Geary. Maybe that will happen one of these days, but I suspect not just yet and, when it does, it might only be for one final game for Jarryn.

Who would the selectors want to bring into those openings? HIggins and Clark are probably at the top of the list.

By the time the Lions game comes around, HIggins won't have played football for four weeks. I also note that he is on the injury list as subject to a test: it's not clear if this is a concussion test or a COVID protocols test: both seem unlikely to me, so the statement is a little puzzling. I must say, I can't help having a slightly sinking feeling about whether we are going to see him playing again in a hurry (and I sincerely hope I'm wrong about that). But I'm thinking that he won't be back next week, although there's some chance he'll get a limited run with the Zebras.

Clark is clearly a bit rusty, but I think the selectors will be sorely tempted to bring him in. His skills will be invaluable in counteracting the strong Brisbane midfield. and half-forward line. Assuming that he is considered to be fit enough to play out an AFL game, I'd pick him. I think replacing Webster with him is the least disruptive way to go.

I also think they are highly likely to bring Butler back in, especially if HIggins isn't playing. Butler doesn't kick as many goals as we would like, although he does set up quite a few. But, importantly, he tackles well and can win damaging turnovers insider the forward 50s. We'll need those capabilities against the powerful Lions defence. Sharman would be the obvious player for him to replace.

The other guy they will surely be seriously considering is Billings, who had a very good game for the Zebras. IMO, he could come in for any one of Wood, Windhager or Long. But my guess is that, given the need against Brisbane for experienced players with harder bodies, Windhager will be the unlucky one. But I think this is the most uncertain change, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Billings miss out, although I think this would be a shame, given that he appears to have done everything asked of him.

That means IN: Clark, Butler, Billings
OUT: Webster, Sharman and Windhager

I believe those changes would make us significantly stronger against the Lions. Sure, it's hard on those who miss out, but this is going to be a really tough game for us to win.

[meher baba]

Surely Higgins and Clark can’t play, they would both be greatly underdone going into a game with against Bris who are filled with big strong bodied players

To beat Bris you have to shut down Neale and to a lesser extent Rich. Maybe Ross to Neale and Long to Rich

All of the Bris small forwards (McCarthy, Cameron and Bailey) play bigger than they are, so our match ups on those 3 are vital.

I worry about Paton, his disposal is ordinary (at best) and is he strong enough to take on any of the above forwards. Yes Cameron is light but he is brilliant at moving players out of contests

Just maybe #14 comes in to help counter these 3

Fqf

My personal view was Higgins for Sharman and Butler for windy.

That said your post has me thinking about Geary to come in and sit on rich...

Geary gets an amazing write-up in Batch's review of the Zebras' last game. Perhaps that's a sign he might be back.

[WellardSaint]

A few on here are talking about Long making way for someone.

He's very valuable indeed.
I think his pressure and (controlled) aggression are heaps better than Butler.
Butler is far too quick to resort to party tricks that a guy might do after training is wrapped up.
The kicks on the outside of the boot, for example.
He tries to do magic tricks which don't work, usually.
Liability.
Long, though, thinks 'team first' and does sensible things all game. He's not a lair or a magician, he's a skilful hard nut who can be relied on to handball to a guy in the clear.

Long- big tick

[groupie1]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

[nostalgicsaint]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Personally I'd not like to lose any of them.

That being said I dont think it would hurt us too much.

Hypothetically you lose 1 or 2 from that list, maybe even get some trade currency back. It doesn't really hurt us, and frees up a spot for our drafting.

We're talking about players who are in spot 25+ on the list. Worrying about this would be akin to Richmond worrying about losing Butler.

[meher baba]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Personally I'd not like to lose any of them.

That being said I dont think it would hurt us too much.

Hypothetically you lose 1 or 2 from that list, maybe even get some trade currency back. It doesn't really hurt us, and frees up a spot for our drafting.

We're talking about players who are in spot 25+ on the list. Worrying about this would be akin to Richmond worrying about losing Butler.

+1

[CQ SAINT]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Byrnes, Bytel and Highmore are out of contract, Connolly has year to go, they would be mad not to look elsewhere, but after last night, its clear we arent concerned about getting a cheap development player, we have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for that and a strong connection to a free agent that if we get him, players like Byrnes and Bytel will have to work even harder. Id say the list is fairly settled and losses outside of the first 22, won't be too hard to replace.

[older saint]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Byrnes, Bytel and Highmore are out of contract, Connolly has year to go, they would be mad not to look elsewhere, but after last night, its clear we arent concerned about getting a cheap development player, we have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for that and a strong connection to a free agent that if we get him, players like Byrnes and Bytel will have to work even harder. Id say the list is fairly settled and losses outside of the first 22, won't be too hard to replace.

Good teams, good clubs and good culture do not have to worry about these type of issues. There is no way we should compromise this season to "keep players happy". If the players you mention force someone out fantastic if not they need to bide their time and learn. If they don't like this then do something that makes them a selection must. For too man y years the tail has wagged the dog. Teams and unselfishness wins premierships and we appear to have a team heading that way.

[Saintmike65]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Byrnes, Bytel and Highmore are out of contract, Connolly has year to go, they would be mad not to look elsewhere, but after last night, its clear we arent concerned about getting a cheap development player, we have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for that and a strong connection to a free agent that if we get him, players like Byrnes and Bytel will have to work even harder. Id say the list is fairly settled and losses outside of the first 22, won't be too hard to replace.

Good teams, good clubs and good culture do not have to worry about these type of issues. There is no way we should compromise this season to "keep players happy". If the players you mention force someone out fantastic if not they need to bide their time and learn. If they don't like this then do something that makes them a selection must. For too man y years the tail has wagged the dog. Teams and unselfishness wins premierships and we appear to have a team heading that way.

Well said…The door needs to be smashed down to get into a winning team.
Byrnes, Bytel and Highmore are handy players but the guys currently in the side are deemed more valuable.
With due respect, I doubt clubs will be climbing over themselves to poach those 3!
I can’t understand why there’s a weekly wish for Webster and Paton to be dropped.

[D.B.Cooper]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Byrnes, Bytel and Highmore are out of contract, Connolly has year to go, they would be mad not to look elsewhere, but after last night, its clear we arent concerned about getting a cheap development player, we have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for that and a strong connection to a free agent that if we get him, players like Byrnes and Bytel will have to work even harder. Id say the list is fairly settled and losses outside of the first 22, won't be too hard to replace.

We need to retain Byrbes, he will be a decent AFL player.
Not fussed if Bytel, Connelly or Highmore chose to move on.

[samuraisaint]

Don't drop Sharman - he has played three matches now and might have a break out game up there on a big ground.

[shanegrambeau]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Byrnes, Bytel and Highmore are out of contract, Connolly has year to go, they would be mad not to look elsewhere, but after last night, its clear we arent concerned about getting a cheap development player, we have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for that and a strong connection to a free agent that if we get him, players like Byrnes and Bytel will have to work even harder. Id say the list is fairly settled and losses outside of the first 22, won't be too hard to replace.

We need to retain Byrbes, he will be a decent AFL player.
Not fussed if Bytel, Connelly or Highmore chose to move on.

I hope St Kilda keep Highmore.
You lot say he aint as good as Webby...cos Webby got better hands or something...
I think Webster is a definite solid player..

I have hardly seen Connolly play, so can't comment (with my usual excellent football brain lol), but I think the selectors made a telegraph last year didn't they...
Byrnes...
he def did something wrong on the field by the looks...some undisciplined thing I would guess, but the question is, is he good enough?

So can we discuss?

On a scale of 1 to 5 (5 being way above the other Saints he compares to, 1 being way below)
Where does Byrnes sit on..

1) Speed
2) Tank
3) Nous, knowing where to be ..etc.
4) overhead
5) Ground level
6) Maul and dredge
7) Kicking long field kicks
8) Sharp short passes
9) Set shots
10) tagging/cooling capacity?

[groupie1]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Byrnes, Bytel and Highmore are out of contract, Connolly has year to go, they would be mad not to look elsewhere, but after last night, its clear we arent concerned about getting a cheap development player, we have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for that and a strong connection to a free agent that if we get him, players like Byrnes and Bytel will have to work even harder. Id say the list is fairly settled and losses outside of the first 22, won't be too hard to replace.

We need to retain Byrbes, he will be a decent AFL player.
Not fussed if Bytel, Connelly or Highmore chose to move on.

Good points everyone, though I still think Connolly & Byrnes are best 22. Highmore is a very very handy player.
And I reckon Byrnes could consider himself unlucky not to have found a way back in yet.

[groupie1]

I guess one of my concerns here is that if we want a couple flags during the Max King era, it'd be good to pinch one before Membrey, Sinclair, Hill, Crouch, Steele get to 'beyond peak' ages, which they're all approaching.

[CQ SAINT]

Is anyone else concerned about Byrnes, Highmore, Bytel, Connolly looking elsewhere for opportunities if they don't start getting selected ahead of Windhager, NWM and Owens?

Given Webster's age and Billings' potential trade value, Ross' age (despite his insane form this year) and Woods' not best 22 potential, are we not better off getting Connolly and co in ahead of those 4, and certainly ahead of the new lads?

Byrnes has barely played footy all year and didn't go much wrong when he did in the two's.

And why was Lienart dropped? Did nothing wrong.

I think we see how quality disposal is so damaging, so the group of: Connolly, Byrnes, Sincs, Hill, and NWM should be prioritised.
And I don't think we wanna lose Sharman and Highmore to another team.

Byrnes, Bytel and Highmore are out of contract, Connolly has year to go, they would be mad not to look elsewhere, but after last night, its clear we arent concerned about getting a cheap development player, we have 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for that and a strong connection to a free agent that if we get him, players like Byrnes and Bytel will have to work even harder. Id say the list is fairly settled and losses outside of the first 22, won't be too hard to replace.

We need to retain Byrbes, he will be a decent AFL player.
Not fussed if Bytel, Connelly or Highmore chose to move on.

I dont think we will lose any. We may delist one but I dont think any of them would want to leave.
I like Byrnes, but he needs to find an edge or a way of impacting more often in the top 22, when he gets a chance.
He is ok at most things, shows flashes of brilliance, dash and grit here and there but he is mostly just ok at the top level.
He has some work to do to get ahead of Clark, Windhager or Nasiah who have shownore potential, more often. Injuries are where his opportunity lies.
The return of Jones and Gresham has cost him ground and now Windhager may out shine him.

[Saintmike65]

The game's 2 weeks away

I worry about Clark with his impact injuries.
Others have said he doesn't appear to have developed more muscle and looks fragile

Hunter's body type is clear endomorph (athletic, solid, and strong. Not overweight and not underweight. Both gain and lose weight without too much effort) Very much like Jeremy McGovern. It's a fairly unique body type for an elite athlete.

Most athletes are ectomorphs (long and lean, with little body fat, and little muscle. Have a hard time gaining weight unless through massive weight training and overreating).

Just because someone isn't cut (like 99% of his peers) doesn't mean they aren't strong. Also, courage is independent of muscle accumulation.

I'd rather have a gutsy, classy, not cut ball user like Hunter than say, a ball spraying plodder like Dunstan.

Yep…Michael Tuck and Ken Hunter back in the day were classic examples of your summation.

[shanegrambeau]

The game's 2 weeks away

I worry about Clark with his impact injuries.
Others have said he doesn't appear to have developed more muscle and looks fragile

Hunter's body type is clear endomorph (athletic, solid, and strong. Not overweight and not underweight. Both gain and lose weight without too much effort) Very much like Jeremy McGovern. It's a fairly unique body type for an elite athlete.

Most athletes are ectomorphs (long and lean, with little body fat, and little muscle. Have a hard time gaining weight unless through massive weight training and overreating).

Just because someone isn't cut (like 99% of his peers) doesn't mean they aren't strong. Also, courage is independent of muscle accumulation.

I'd rather have a gutsy, classy, not cut ball user like Hunter than say, a ball spraying plodder like Dunstan.

Yep…Michael Tuck and Ken Hunter back in the day were classic examples of your summation.

Respectfully, I think SaintMatt missed Wellard's point completely. (or was it the other way around)

Keypoint is not about Hunter's body type or the athletes bodies in general.

It is about change!

Hunter has lost muscle mass.
Not as big across the shoulders, not as bulky as pre-injury.
That is the point.

The point is that he should bulk up again before going up against the crunch of AFL again - especially as a 'marked man'..

Players are usually biggest pre season and then lose mass as the season goes on, so that's in his favour..os is it? Hunter might have lost strength too.