Ratts contract to be extended

[Teflon]

I see nothing wrong with extending his contract. For those criticising it, are you waiting for the messiah Alistair Clarkson? Sam Mitchell has Hawthorn playing better football now that Clarkson has departed. Clarkson had huge success with an extraordinarily talented playing list. When that playing list became bog average, so did his results.

What’s the rush??????
We extended Richos contract to be “proactive” and that was an error
We have a testing run of games coming up in the back end of this year
Let’s see how our 1-2 quarter style of footy goes against Lions, Blues, Dogs, Swans etc before start popping the Ratts champagne corks
I’d have thought it’s good governance
Nothing to do with messiahs
And while on messiah….whose to say Ratts is it???
Surely u test the market or at least wait till back end of the season
Last year we missed finals
Still to play a 4 quarter game I might add so why not see?
Prudent id have thought
It’s typical Saints “we’ve won a few games….quick lock in current messiah….”

[shanegrambeau]

As a unabated Ratts fan, I believe its the right move by the club. I really do believe that with some luck and continued smart recruiting Ratts is the man to take us all the way. Go Saints!

May I ask respectfully,
How did you feel when Ricoh’s contract was extended?

[Teflon]

As a unabated Ratts fan, I believe its the right move by the club. I really do believe that with some luck and continued smart recruiting Ratts is the man to take us all the way. Go Saints!

May I ask respectfully,
How did you feel when Ricoh’s contract was extended?

An astute question

[CQ SAINT]

mmmmmm

my memory is of a ... thoughtful , planned transition

The peaceful, thoughtful, planned transition came about primarily because we didn't have the cash to go into debt to sack him and we got Ratten in cheap for a transition.
Richo was sacked in 2018, dropped the media, we just let him hang around.
He missed the preseason to get some overseas training, had already lost the leaderships groups support and got a challenging letter from the club captain at season's end. 28 players who started the 2019 season are now gone.
McCartin failed, Billings never took off, Gresham got injured, Ross may have been significantly overrated internally, Steven was a basket case, Bruce couldn't wait to get out of the joint. The place was in tatters.

[skeptic]

As a unabated Ratts fan, I believe its the right move by the club. I really do believe that with some luck and continued smart recruiting Ratts is the man to take us all the way. Go Saints!

May I ask respectfully,
How did you feel when Ricoh’s contract was extended?

An astute question

It wasn’t directed at me... but at the time I was thrilled. Don’t put him under unnecessary pressure I thought.

Sufficed to say that I was way off the mark there and that’s one of the reasons I’d be more cautious now.

Tend to agree with the few that have pointed out that we have had a decent run to date without knocking it out of the park and the tougher period is about to come.

Doesn’t make sense to extend now. I doubt Ratts was to be poached... wait til he locks in finals or see what happens with the list in the office season and let ur offer reflect the actual results.

Not against Ratts staying on but these big shows off faith rarely work out in this context IMO. Ratts hasn’t blown it out of the water and is a bit prone to making bad decisions at times though he’s better as of late. Why force the issue rather than keep him on his toes.

[Scollop]

As a unabated Ratts fan, I believe its the right move by the club. I really do believe that with some luck and continued smart recruiting Ratts is the man to take us all the way. Go Saints!

May I ask respectfully,
How did you feel when Ricoh’s contract was extended?

Have a read of some of the threads and you can make up your own mind. The following is just a small sample.

http://saintsational.net/viewforum.php?f=1&start=7550

I also don’t understand how people can compare a team on the rise with a team on the decline. We had guys like Dempster, Gilbert, Fisher, Montagna and Nick Riewoldt retiring with not much in the way of depth or elite youth coming through. Check out some of the threads from 2017/early 2018

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94037

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93492

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93880

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94603

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94832

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94625

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93494

[asiu]

mmmmmm

my memory is of a ... thoughtful , planned transition

The peaceful, thoughtful, planned transition came about primarily because we didn't have the cash to go into debt to sack him and we got Ratten in cheap for a transition.
Richo was sacked in 2018, dropped the media, we just let him hang around.
He missed the preseason to get some overseas training, had already lost the leaderships groups support and got a challenging letter from the club captain at season's end. 28 players who started the 2019 season are now gone.
McCartin failed, Billings never took off, Gresham got injured, Ross may have been significantly overrated internally, Steven was a basket case, Bruce couldn't wait to get out of the joint. The place was in tatters.

agree with that

but management was smart enough
to work their way
out of (their) our treacle pudding
WITHOUT losing the baby

[minneapolis]

I wasn’t around these parts when Ricoh’s contract was extended.
What was the general mood of the forum about his re-signing then?

Most people were not happy with Ricoh. A lot of jams in the flow and often a poor quality finish.

People were especially annoyed at a lack of accuracy. It never improved.

Most thought the club was due for a new entrant. Toshiba, Canon and Sharp were available.

An opportunity for a professional proven operator was missed.

[Saintmike65]

Brett Ratten has been a massive influence for the entire club, not just the playing group.
For those of us fortunate enough to get to training on a regular basis, it’s tremendous to witness first hand the bond between players, Nick Walsh and coaches alike.
I think it’s an indictment of the club’s past that Richo is our second longest serving coach behind Jeans, with a 37% winning rate.
I honestly thought Ross Lyon or Grant Thomas would’ve been.
Now…let’s hope Ratts can not only be our long term coach but a successful one!

[saintly]

Bring Robert Harvey home!!!

'to do what me assistant coach? as he will never become senior coach by any club

[Vortex]

mmmmmm

my memory is of a ... thoughtful , planned transition

The peaceful, thoughtful, planned transition came about primarily because we didn't have the cash to go into debt to sack him and we got Ratten in cheap for a transition.
Richo was sacked in 2018, dropped the media, we just let him hang around.
He missed the preseason to get some overseas training, had already lost the leaderships groups support and got a challenging letter from the club captain at season's end. 28 players who started the 2019 season are now gone.
McCartin failed, Billings never took off, Gresham got injured, Ross may have been significantly overrated internally, Steven was a basket case, Bruce couldn't wait to get out of the joint. The place was in tatters.

agree with that

but management was smart enough
to work their way
out of (their) our treacle pudding
WITHOUT losing the baby

I think you make the point well, Richo took over an absolute basket case of a club that was a woodspoon winner and so the evidence is clear he left the place a little better than when he took on the job and had many challenges Ratts doesn't have including the instability and disruption created by the whole Seaford to Moorabbin transition. The resources around Ratts are significantly better and so there is that too.

Look to Noble and North for an example of how hard it is to take over a basket case so in that context the evidence is clear that Richo did remarkably well all things considered and steadied the ship so the next runner got a clean grab at the baton.

[asiu]

... did remarkably well all things considered and steadied the ship so the next runner got a clean grab at the baton.

nice

[Impatient Sainter]

As a unabated Ratts fan, I believe its the right move by the club. I really do believe that with some luck and continued smart recruiting Ratts is the man to take us all the way. Go Saints!

May I ask respectfully,
How did you feel when Ricoh’s contract was extended?

Lets just say I was a very unhappy supporter. I had seen enough of Cho in his 2nd year to be certain he was well out of his depth. Its true he had a flawed list, but his coaching philosophies made them worse. The club kept backing him which had us looking for other alternatives to improve, but they should have recognised much earlier he was a dud.

I was that out spoken about Richo on BF, I had a personality clash with a moderator that didn't end well. But thats all history...

[shanegrambeau]

As a unabated Ratts fan, I believe its the right move by the club. I really do believe that with some luck and continued smart recruiting Ratts is the man to take us all the way. Go Saints!

May I ask respectfully,
How did you feel when Ricoh’s contract was extended?

…. I was a very unhappy supporter. I had seen enough of Cho in his 2nd year……The club kept backing him…..

I was that out spoken about Richo…

Therein lies a question about Ratts’s renewal…

What processes the club went through leading to that resigning….how the business and politics of a club and the whole footy industry mechanisms work…

Like an government deciding to hold an election, waiting for the perfect moment, I imagine Ratts’ manager waiting to strike, like a snake in the grass.

Same for the players…
DMac too…Kent too…
No disrespect to either, but both seemed suspect re-signings.

So what bulwark does the club employ to resist that tidal force…the one that gets on the back of some momentum..And I’m a big Ratts fan, but in no way do I think we are a roaring success this year, but something is working!!

Improvement
DMac (effectiveness)
Ross (effort)
Long (composure)
Sincs (no need to say)

I don’t like the Hayes resigning. One good game.

It all looks like a crooked kinda set-up in a way. Not just St Kilda, but the whole industry…Maybe all industry is like that.
Imagine many of us get re-hired when outside competition is not a factor.

[saynta]

As a unabated Ratts fan, I believe its the right move by the club. I really do believe that with some luck and continued smart recruiting Ratts is the man to take us all the way. Go Saints!

May I ask respectfully,
How did you feel when Ricoh’s contract was extended?

…. I was a very unhappy supporter. I had seen enough of Cho in his 2nd year……The club kept backing him…..

I was that out spoken about Richo…

Therein lies a question about Ratts’s renewal…

What processes the club went through leading to that resigning….how the business and politics of a club and the whole footy industry mechanisms work…

Like an government deciding to hold an election, waiting for the perfect moment, I imagine Ratts’ manager waiting to strike, like a snake in the grass.

Same for the players…
DMac too…Kent too…
No disrespect to either, but both seemed suspect re-signings.

So what bulwark does the club employ to resist that tidal force…the one that gets on the back of some momentum..And I’m a big Ratts fan, but in no way do I think we are a roaring success this year, but something is working!!

Improvement
DMac (effectiveness)
Ross (effort)
Long (composure)
Sincs (no need to say)

I don’t like the Hayes resigning. One good game.

It all looks like a crooked kinda set-up in a way. Not just St Kilda, but the whole industry…Maybe all industry is like that.
Imagine many of us get re-hired when outside competition is not a factor.

"I don’t like the Hayes resigning. One good game.'

Oh, lonesome me.

[Sainter_Dad]

But above all else our luck with injury has been the best it's been for over a decade and that really helps a coach so if that changes then that could expose a fragility that exists in our list. Also how we go while Steele is out will also test our onfiled leadership which has also seen massive improvement this year and which was historically an atrocious attribute of this list. Are these improvements due to the coach?

Not sure I agree with our luck on the injury front - Currently:
Nick Coffield ACL Season
Dan Hannebery Calf Indefinite
Jack Hayes Knee Season
Jack Higgins H&S protocols 1 week
Jack Steele Shoulder 5-7 weeks

Also a few carrying niggles and some suspensions - Clarke has been out for half a season - Higgins has lost a few days from Concussion protocols etc

I think we have done well DESPITE the injuries

When is this new bloke Hannebery going to debut?...sorry I couldn't' help myself.

So goodish luck then up until Steele and Higgins very recent injuries, I'd argue we didn't look so good against the Crows due to Steele being out so that sought of goes to my point about the fragility of our list. Time will tell if it is in fact a fragile list in terms of only needing one or two players going down with injury and the team's subsequent performance being significantly impacted. They have passed most test this year so hears hoping we have matured in that department too.

Do you have a cellarable wine in the rack in anticipation of the wholly grail SD? If we keep trending like we are it might be drinkable in the next year or so.

Does 8 bottles of Grange from the 90's count? - Except it would be the HOLY Grail

[Impatient Sainter]

shanegrambeau I think we now have far more astute football people at the club to make the right decisions about the clubs future. In the Richardson contract renewal all we had was Finnis making the decisions and it was proven he knew zip about the game, he was just drawn to Richardson's 'good bloke' persona. Lethlean, Rath, Lade, Gallagher and Allen are all sound footballing entities who have been around the game for a long time, Im sure they wouldn't endorse Ratts if they didnt think he was the right man.

The call regarding McKenzie's contract extension has been an inspired one, he has come on in leaps and bounds under Ratts. Kent was lucky we needed the depth, but in a perfect world he would have been delisted. Thankfully he is one who will be moved on this year.

[CQ SAINT]

mmmmmm

my memory is of a ... thoughtful , planned transition

The peaceful, thoughtful, planned transition came about primarily because we didn't have the cash to go into debt to sack him and we got Ratten in cheap for a transition.
Richo was sacked in 2018, dropped the media, we just let him hang around.
He missed the preseason to get some overseas training, had already lost the leaderships groups support and got a challenging letter from the club captain at season's end. 28 players who started the 2019 season are now gone.
McCartin failed, Billings never took off, Gresham got injured, Ross may have been significantly overrated internally, Steven was a basket case, Bruce couldn't wait to get out of the joint. The place was in tatters.

agree with that

but management was smart enough
to work their way
out of (their) our treacle pudding
WITHOUT losing the baby

Oh. Yes, I agree with that. I just can't credit Richo with anything Ratten has produced. Just isn't true.

[Wayne42]

I wasn’t around these parts when Ricoh’s contract was extended.
What was the general mood of the forum about his re-signing then?

Ecstatic

[Sanctorum]

Is this article by Jake Niall just a ploy by Ratten's management team to push hard for their client to get a contract extension?? Happens all the time and we poor suckers fall for it.....

I'm not anti Brett Ratten and give him some credit for the way the team is playing this year, but I have reservations based on two factors:

1. Tactically, the slow starts and poor ratio of quarters won in 10 games (only 50% - 20 of 40) suggests that St Kilda is not playing to its full potential - in 3 of the winning games, they actually only won just one of the four quarters.

2. Is the team's new found coherence, improved team work and unselfish football a product of Ratten's coaching, or did the players themselves develop this new resolve??

There are 12 games to go and as nice as it is to have our team sitting in 5th spot, I believe it is far too early to make a call on the senior coach position beyond 2022. It would be very surprising if the Board made any decisions on this matter until September.

[Life Long Saint]

2. Is the team's new found coherence, improved team work and unselfish football a product of Ratten's coaching, or did the players themselves develop this new resolve??

This happened about after the Cairns game last season. We were a totally different team post bye.
From our 10 games, we were 6-4 with a percentage of 116.35
Among our wins, we beat eventual finalists Brisbane and Sydney.
We had narrow losses to eventual finalists Port and Geelong. Also lost narrowly to West Coast at home.

I suspect the first half of 2021 was the blip.
We played well in 2020, the 2nd half of 2021, and have played well in 2022.

We're winning games against quality opposition. We've beaten Fremantle, Geelong, and Richmond (all top 8). We are 3-1 v top 8 teams.
We are also the only team in the top 8 yet to play either North or WCE.

Do we have things to improve? Absolutely. But imagine how good we can be when we put 4 quarters together?

[WellardSaint]

As a unabated Ratts fan, I believe its the right move by the club. I really do believe that with some luck and continued smart recruiting Ratts is the man to take us all the way. Go Saints!

At the end of last year, I said on here that we'd be stuck in the bottom 8, because my theory was that other clubs would show more improvement than us.
So they'd all overtake us. I had no faith in any of the coaches improving our tactics, fitness, routines, etc

Several major changes have taken place which have collectively resulted in big improvements across the board.
All the changes have been magnified (i can't remember the phrase) you add all the bits together and the result is greater. Kind of snowball effect.

They're learning a lot of lessons and are on an upward trajectory.
Messing with it by considering Clarko,would ruin all the gains and potentially put the breaks on.

[Vortex]

But above all else our luck with injury has been the best it's been for over a decade and that really helps a coach so if that changes then that could expose a fragility that exists in our list. Also how we go while Steele is out will also test our onfiled leadership which has also seen massive improvement this year and which was historically an atrocious attribute of this list. Are these improvements due to the coach?

Not sure I agree with our luck on the injury front - Currently:
Nick Coffield ACL Season
Dan Hannebery Calf Indefinite
Jack Hayes Knee Season
Jack Higgins H&S protocols 1 week
Jack Steele Shoulder 5-7 weeks

Also a few carrying niggles and some suspensions - Clarke has been out for half a season - Higgins has lost a few days from Concussion protocols etc

I think we have done well DESPITE the injuries

When is this new bloke Hannebery going to debut?...sorry I couldn't' help myself.

So goodish luck then up until Steele and Higgins very recent injuries, I'd argue we didn't look so good against the Crows due to Steele being out so that sought of goes to my point about the fragility of our list. Time will tell if it is in fact a fragile list in terms of only needing one or two players going down with injury and the team's subsequent performance being significantly impacted. They have passed most test this year so hears hoping we have matured in that department too.

Do you have a cellarable wine in the rack in anticipation of the wholly grail SD? If we keep trending like we are it might be drinkable in the next year or so.

Does 8 bottles of Grange from the 90's count? - Except it would be the HOLY Grail

Please can you invite me around when you pop those bad boys.

[Sainter_Dad]

But above all else our luck with injury has been the best it's been for over a decade and that really helps a coach so if that changes then that could expose a fragility that exists in our list. Also how we go while Steele is out will also test our onfiled leadership which has also seen massive improvement this year and which was historically an atrocious attribute of this list. Are these improvements due to the coach?

Not sure I agree with our luck on the injury front - Currently:
Nick Coffield ACL Season
Dan Hannebery Calf Indefinite
Jack Hayes Knee Season
Jack Higgins H&S protocols 1 week
Jack Steele Shoulder 5-7 weeks

Also a few carrying niggles and some suspensions - Clarke has been out for half a season - Higgins has lost a few days from Concussion protocols etc

I think we have done well DESPITE the injuries

When is this new bloke Hannebery going to debut?...sorry I couldn't' help myself.

So goodish luck then up until Steele and Higgins very recent injuries, I'd argue we didn't look so good against the Crows due to Steele being out so that sought of goes to my point about the fragility of our list. Time will tell if it is in fact a fragile list in terms of only needing one or two players going down with injury and the team's subsequent performance being significantly impacted. They have passed most test this year so hears hoping we have matured in that department too.

Do you have a cellarable wine in the rack in anticipation of the wholly grail SD? If we keep trending like we are it might be drinkable in the next year or so.

Does 8 bottles of Grange from the 90's count? - Except it would be the HOLY Grail

Please can you invite me around when you pop those bad boys.

Thinking of selling them and buying a crap load of $50 - $100.00 bottles instead - would need probably $6K for them all - there are some very good years there

[Vortex]

But above all else our luck with injury has been the best it's been for over a decade and that really helps a coach so if that changes then that could expose a fragility that exists in our list. Also how we go while Steele is out will also test our onfiled leadership which has also seen massive improvement this year and which was historically an atrocious attribute of this list. Are these improvements due to the coach?

Not sure I agree with our luck on the injury front - Currently:
Nick Coffield ACL Season
Dan Hannebery Calf Indefinite
Jack Hayes Knee Season
Jack Higgins H&S protocols 1 week
Jack Steele Shoulder 5-7 weeks

Also a few carrying niggles and some suspensions - Clarke has been out for half a season - Higgins has lost a few days from Concussion protocols etc

I think we have done well DESPITE the injuries

When is this new bloke Hannebery going to debut?...sorry I couldn't' help myself.

So goodish luck then up until Steele and Higgins very recent injuries, I'd argue we didn't look so good against the Crows due to Steele being out so that sought of goes to my point about the fragility of our list. Time will tell if it is in fact a fragile list in terms of only needing one or two players going down with injury and the team's subsequent performance being significantly impacted. They have passed most test this year so hears hoping we have matured in that department too.

Do you have a cellarable wine in the rack in anticipation of the wholly grail SD? If we keep trending like we are it might be drinkable in the next year or so.

Does 8 bottles of Grange from the 90's count? - Except it would be the HOLY Grail

Please can you invite me around when you pop those bad boys.

Thinking of selling them and buying a crap load of $50 - $100.00 bottles instead - would need probably $6K for them all - there are some very good years there

Mate SD I know this is one of your areas of expertise so I'm now wanting to know which bottles you'd recommend in that price range.