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saynta wrote: ↑Tue 24 May 2022 9:22pm
Ditching Ratts could set us back 5 years, IMHFO
Seems we’ve been here before. Get a “proper” tactical-minded coach in to “finish off the job”. Lol
Just imagine the absolute total melts in here if we sign Ratts for 3 years before Finals and then get embarrassingly knocked out of the Finals in straight sets or one set
Hey I like Ratts and think he has done a pretty good job but I think it would be wise to wait until after the season has finished before making the decision, especially if Clarko is available and interested
WellardSaint wrote: ↑Mon 23 May 2022 2:07pm
He's entitled to his opinion.
But I don't agree with him usually.
I understand that senior coach brings huge sacrifices for families.
An interview years ago, when he was in the last years of the WCE job, he mentioned noticing lots of photos in his house, on walls and mantlepiece, etc.
Important family events, maybe engagement of daughter, things like that. He wasn't in most of the pics.
He was absent with coaching duties.
Bloody sad to miss out on stuff like that.
When Skunk and Ross declined to be available last year for new births- it makes sense
Mmm…. Mick was married but had a girlfriend in WA… I know because I was dating her younger sister at the time
Enough of Mick he’s an a grade arsehole
I used to be supersaints but after 16 years my profile dissapeared... ??? if I make any reference to past posts .. it will be under supersiants.. glad to be back on line
WellardSaint wrote: ↑Mon 23 May 2022 2:07pm
He's entitled to his opinion.
But I don't agree with him usually.
I understand that senior coach brings huge sacrifices for families.
An interview years ago, when he was in the last years of the WCE job, he mentioned noticing lots of photos in his house, on walls and mantlepiece, etc.
Important family events, maybe engagement of daughter, things like that. He wasn't in most of the pics.
He was absent with coaching duties.
Bloody sad to miss out on stuff like that.
When Skunk and Ross declined to be available last year for new births- it makes sense
Mmm…. Mick was married but had a girlfriend in WA… I know because I was dating her younger sister at the time
Enough of Mick he’s an a grade arsehole
I'm just trying to get the context of this discussion.
- Was Carlton in a similar position as St Kilda is now when Ratten was their coach?
- Did Malthouse (a duel premiership coach) replace Ratten at Carlton as senior coach because the Carlton board thought Malthouse would
deliver them the Holy Grail?
- Did Carlton then go downhill?
- Is Malthouse now advocating that we replace Ratten with Clarkson (a 4 time premiership coach) ?
- I think there must be some animosity between these two.
- In my opinion we should give Ratten another 2 years. He deserves it.
I once spent a year in Adelaide, I think it was on a Sunday.
linz wrote: ↑Wed 25 May 2022 11:01pm
I'm just trying to get the context of this discussion.
- Was Carlton in a similar position as St Kilda is now when Ratten was their coach?
- Did Malthouse (a duel premiership coach) replace Ratten at Carlton as senior coach because the Carlton board thought Malthouse would
deliver them the Holy Grail?
- Did Carlton then go downhill?
- Is Malthouse now advocating that we replace Ratten with Clarkson (a 4 time premiership coach) ?
- I think there must be some animosity between these two.
- In my opinion we should give Ratten another 2 years. He deserves it.
Different times
Different clubs
Can’t compare to draw that long now
No rush to re-sign Ratten let the full year play out
linz wrote: ↑Wed 25 May 2022 11:01pm
I'm just trying to get the context of this discussion.
- Was Carlton in a similar position as St Kilda is now when Ratten was their coach?
- Did Malthouse (a duel premiership coach) replace Ratten at Carlton as senior coach because the Carlton board thought Malthouse would
deliver them the Holy Grail?
- Did Carlton then go downhill?
- Is Malthouse now advocating that we replace Ratten with Clarkson (a 4 time premiership coach) ?
- I think there must be some animosity between these two.
- In my opinion we should give Ratten another 2 years. He deserves it.
This is what Malthouse said:
The Saints’ have rallied around Brett Ratten’s methodologies. He is a rare, recycled coach who wears his heart on his sleeve, clearly happy to be back in the hot seat. And he is proving St Kilda to be worthy top-four contender this year. As the self-belief grows and the best 22 are capable of being on the ground together regularly, the Saints have a legitimate claim to be a contender this season.
Why on earth a club would want to remotely think about changing that system is beyond me. But over the Saints’ 100-year journey, with only one premiership, there has been some strange decisions made.
So no, he is not suggesting we replace Ratten with Clarkson at all. In fact, reading between the lines he thinks such a decision would be unwise. He looks at four or five other clubs that have been mentioned as possible destinations for Clarko, so wasn’t singling St Kilda out.
bigcarl wrote: ↑Thu 26 May 2022 12:02am
This is what Malthouse said:
The Saints’ have rallied around Brett Ratten’s methodologies. He is a rare, recycled coach who wears his heart on his sleeve, clearly happy to be back in the hot seat. And he is proving St Kilda to be worthy top-four contender this year. As the self-belief grows and the best 22 are capable of being on the ground together regularly, the Saints have a legitimate claim to be a contender this season.
Why on earth a club would want to remotely think about changing that system is beyond me. But over the Saints’ 100-year journey, with only one premiership, there has been some strange decisions made.
So no, he is not suggesting we replace Ratten with Clarkson at all. In fact, reading between the lines he thinks such a decision would be unwise. He looks at four or five other clubs that have been mentioned as possible destinations for Clarko, so wasn’t singling St Kilda out.
I take your point bigcarl, Malthouse is not advocating St Kilda dispose of Brett Ratten, however he concedes that St Kilda may well go down the path to replace him with Alastair Clarkson in 2023.
This comes on top of Clarkson's comments on AFL360 last week that he attended the Melbourne v St Kilda game, expressing admiration for the current team as genuine finals contenders.
If you combine this with the enormous and well-publicised pressure that the Board is under to go all out to win another premiership - viz the campaign last October by "love or loathe me" Grant Thomas and powerbroker Gerry Ryan - this suggests to me that this could well come about. Would love to know what transpired at the reported meeting between Bassat and Thomas at the end of last year.....
Obviously Brett Ratten's future as senior coach is entirely dependent on where the team is positioned at the end of this year - making finals is one thing, it's how they perform in September that will determine his ultimate fate, one way or another.
"Any candidate for political office, once chosen for leadership, must have the will to take the wheel of a very powerful car, tasked from time to time to make a fast journey down a narrow, precipitous mountain road – and be highly skilled at driving. Otherwise, he is disqualified from the company of competent leaders."
John Carroll, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at La Trobe University.
It’s worth remembering that Ratts would have learned a lot during his stint under Clarkson at Hawthorn (where they reportedly had a very good working relationship).
Question I’d ask at this stage of the season is, would Clarkson really have us better placed with a thrown-together moneyball list of rejects, journeymen, veterans, also-rans, unfashionable hacks, and little apparent superstar quality?
I doubt it. They are playing for Ratten and that’s important.
Let's also take note that many are suggesting that we have what it takes to win in September. Recruiting King was the opportunity for change a once in a generation prospect, then came Ratten and now, 28 former players have departed, a number of them well seasoned in the red white and black.
But for the availability of Clarkson and due diligence, the notion of replacing Ratten at the moment King is on the rise and we will go to the break, 8-3.
King is going to be very important in the next 12 games. If you can dare to dream, you'll accept that at some point, the lead, the leap, the hands, and the kicking are going to all come together. If its mental, he sure looked like he means business last week, to me.
Our mids are at the very least, competitive, our backs are solid and we have all bases covered for adequate depth, despite the injuries to Steele, Coffield and Hayes.
CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Thu 26 May 2022 12:56pm
But for the availability of Clarkson and due diligence, the notion of replacing Ratten at the moment King is on the rise and we will go to the break, 8-3.
You lost me. Were you trying to say, “But for the availability of Clarkson and due diligence, the notion of replacing Ratten at the moment is silly.”
The notion of nicking Ratts now is repulsive and vile.
That said, we’ve seen worse..
(But has it ever worked out?….legend coaches ..Malthouse at Carlton NO. L Lyon at Freo YES, for a while, Jeans at Richmond NO, The West Coast guy at Essendon NO, Baraszsi at Melb NO, mostly nO.
Me thinks Mr Malt wants to see Clarko get a taste of them juices.
saynta wrote: ↑Tue 24 May 2022 9:22pm
Ditching Ratts could set us back 5 years, IMHFO
Seems we’ve been here before. Get a “proper” tactical-minded coach in to “finish off the job”. Lol
Just imagine the absolute total melts in here if we sign Ratts for 3 years before Finals and then get embarrassingly knocked out of the Finals in straight sets or one set
Hey I like Ratts and think he has done a pretty good job but I think it would be wise to wait until after the season has finished before making the decision, especially if Clarko is available and interested
Let’s break it down and have a look at your hypothetical. You don’t need to go too far back to assess Ratts with regard to finals.
You say …what if we make finals and get bundled out!! Ok…so let me ask you this:
Taking into account the fact that we performed admirably against the Dogs in a final (a team that had won a Grand Final and proved themselves again last year as a serious contender) what makes you believe we’d ‘get embarrassingly knocked out’?
I mean seriously? WTF? Ratts has got this team humming. If we continue to show this sort of unity as a team and if all our stars are fit and firing at the pointy end of this year, the only teams that are infront of us are Brisbane and Melbourne. With an ounce of luck we might make the last week in September… imhfo
I don’t care either way whether Ratts gets signed now or whether he gets signed at the end of this year, but I wouldn’t be changing coaches at St Kilda right now
CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Thu 26 May 2022 12:56pm
But for the availability of Clarkson and due diligence, the notion of replacing Ratten at the moment King is on the rise and we will go to the break, 8-3.
You lost me. Were you trying to say, “But for the availability of Clarkson and due diligence, the notion of replacing Ratten at the moment is silly.”
Clarkson is available. If he had an interest in St.Kilda and expressed it, you'd investigate, otherwise, why would you think of replacing Ratten. If we fall outside the 8, yes but at the moment, no way.
CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Thu 26 May 2022 12:56pm
But for the availability of Clarkson and due diligence, the notion of replacing Ratten at the moment King is on the rise and we will go to the break, 8-3.
You lost me. Were you trying to say, “But for the availability of Clarkson and due diligence, the notion of replacing Ratten at the moment is silly.”
Clarkson is available. If he had an interest in St.Kilda and expressed it, you'd investigate, otherwise, why would you think of replacing Ratten. If we fall outside the 8, yes but at the moment, no way.
No worries. Wasn’t having shot, just trying to get your meaning.
saynta wrote: ↑Tue 24 May 2022 9:22pm
Ditching Ratts could set us back 5 years, IMHFO
Seems we’ve been here before. Get a “proper” tactical-minded coach in to “finish off the job”. Lol
Just imagine the absolute total melts in here if we sign Ratts for 3 years before Finals and then get embarrassingly knocked out of the Finals in straight sets or one set
Hey I like Ratts and think he has done a pretty good job but I think it would be wise to wait until after the season has finished before making the decision, especially if Clarko is available and interested
Let’s break it down and have a look at your hypothetical. You don’t need to go too far back to assess Ratts with regard to finals.
You say …what if we make finals and get bundled out!! Ok…so let me ask you this:
Taking into account the fact that we performed admirably against the Dogs in a final (a team that had won a Grand Final and proved themselves again last year as a serious contender) what makes you believe we’d ‘get embarrassingly knocked out’?
I mean seriously? WTF? Ratts has got this team humming. If we continue to show this sort of unity as a team and if all our stars are fit and firing at the pointy end of this year, the only teams that are infront of us are Brisbane and Melbourne. With an ounce of luck we might make the last week in September… imhfo
I don’t care either way whether Ratts gets signed now or whether he gets signed at the end of this year, but I wouldn’t be changing coaches at St Kilda right now
You said it so yourself... just a hypothetical .... IF it did so happen ..... the melts would be enormous if Clarkson was available and interested to coach us next year ...... just like the melts when we signed the Cho mid year and then the wheels fell off ..... cue Saintsational melting
I am just saying like others that we wait until the season is done before we make a decision
IF we did not win a Final / got knocked out in straight sets / or didn't make the finals would you still be happy signing or that we had already signed Ratten to a 3 year long contract when Clarkson was available?
We should give Clarko a probationary 6 game coaching stint to see if the super coach can get us to start playing 4 quarters and to improve our slow starts.
You're not reading the signs man. Do you expect the coach to all of a sudden start losing the plot?
I reckon you should keep September free
Right now, the wheels would really have to fall off and we'd have to be the unluckiest club in history to miss out on finals
I don't have any more doubt on Ratts capabilities. Obviously there are plenty of Saints fans who do. There's also plenty who believe in messiahs
Nothing like getting ahead of yourself .... would prefer to wait until the season is done & dusted
But from some reports we might not have to wait too long
This is spot on
Still got play 4 quarters
Starts have been ordinary
Inside forward 50 ball movement at times has issues and is a bomb fest
Yes we’ve won
How many times has a single handed effort dragged us over the line???????? King - Richmond, King -Adelaide , Gold Coast ???
I mean at least cone up against Lions, Dogs, Swans , Blues (best contested side going round) before blowing your load on Ratts !!
Geezus we reach for the bath water the minute we win a few games
There is no need to rush
It's blatantly obvious that Clarkson took over Hawthorn at the exact time their list rebuild peaked, without the same quality of players he actually struggled as a coach. Its no coincidence that Hardwick had a major reset and the club surrounded him with the right people also just as their list peaked. Likewise when you look at Goodwin's list at Melbourne, they have by far the best list in the competition.
Ratten is as capable as any of the above, he just needs the worlds to align list wise, have some luck with injuries and he will prove himself. In short every good coach needs the best players to acheive the ultimate goal. Good coaches can make sides more competitive, but rarely win competitions with average lists. The same rule applies for poor coaches they will make average lists worse ala Richardson.
You're not reading the signs man. Do you expect the coach to all of a sudden start losing the plot?
I reckon you should keep September free
Right now, the wheels would really have to fall off and we'd have to be the unluckiest club in history to miss out on finals
I don't have any more doubt on Ratts capabilities. Obviously there are plenty of Saints fans who do. There's also plenty who believe in messiahs
Nothing like getting ahead of yourself .... would prefer to wait until the season is done & dusted
But from some reports we might not have to wait too long
This is spot on
Still got play 4 quarters
Starts have been ordinary
Inside forward 50 ball movement at times has issues and is a bomb fest
Yes we’ve won
How many times has a single handed effort dragged us over the line???????? King - Richmond, King -Adelaide , Gold Coast ???
I mean at least cone up against Lions, Dogs, Swans , Blues (best contested side going round) before blowing your load on Ratts !!
Geezus we reach for the bath water the minute we win a few games
There is no need to rush
Coaches don't get to kick for goal. If we kicked straight, we are sitting on 9/10. We have won 7 games.
We haven't dominated many games we have won but OUR OPPONENTS HAVE TO PLAY 4 QUARTERS TO BEAT US or hope we don't kick straight. This is the most obvious improvement.
Freo, Geelong, Richmond, Hawthorn, and even Collingwood and Port Adelaide would attest to that.
Edit: We can bust open games in a quarter and we are yet to be busted open by anyone but Melbourne. Scoreboard pressure early is a problem, but we are starting to turn games our way and win them.
Remember all the threads on here about Saints chasing a ‘big fish’?
Remember all the posts about us being a laughing stock and the fact that we couldn’t get anyone over the line even though we had salary cap space with guys like Fisher, Dempster, Gilbert, Montagna and Riewoldt retiring?
Remember the posts doubting that we would EVER become a destination club?
Well…I do!
What does it look like now? How many free agents have been linked to us? I reckon there are players from other clubs who’d love to come and play at St Kilda and be coached by Ratts
Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Fri 27 May 2022 11:21am
It's blatantly obvious that Clarkson took over Hawthorn at the exact time their list rebuild peaked, without the same quality of players he actually struggled as a coach. Its no coincidence that Hardwick had a major reset and the club surrounded him with the right people also just as their list peaked. Likewise when you look at Goodwin's list at Melbourne, they have by far the best list in the competition.
Ratten is as capable as any of the above, he just needs the worlds to align list wise, have some luck with injuries and he will prove himself. In short every good coach needs the best players to acheive the ultimate goal. Good coaches can make sides more competitive, but rarely win competitions with average lists. The same rule applies for poor coaches they will make average lists worse ala Richardson.
Didn't Clarko take over the list at rock bottom, like woodenspoon rock bottom, and isn't he credited with rebuilding the list twice, first for the 2008 flag, then again for the 2013, 14 and 15 flags.
I listened to Hodgey on SEN the other day talking about conversations he's had with Clarko and that he's only interested in coaching for a flag these days so highly unlikely he'll wait 5 years to take on the Tasmanian team. I hear a bit about what's going on at the Gold Coast through a major sponsor I'm involved with and the mail for a very long time now is Clarko is going to the GC, the other thing I'm hearing is Cochrane is telling anyone who will listen that there aren't going to enough club presidents support the 19th team. The other thing I hear often from my GC contacts is Clarko is looking forward to working on his Tan at Palm Beach. Worst kept secret is that the AFL are parachuting Clarko into the GCS gig because they desperately need one of their franchise teams to be successful.
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