Billings

[B.M]

I don’t think many understand his role - given some very ignorant comments

Or the difficulty in playing as a HF?!

For a HF to average 20 and 0.8 goals and a few tackles

Is akin to a Mid averaging 25+ with 5 tackles or a small forward averaging 1.5 goals

He’s not an elite footballer (ie Robbie Gray as a HF or what Stevie J was)

But he’s a damn good HF

Underrated for what he does and criticised for not being a champion!

Here’s the thing
Very few players are champions that’s what seperates them.

[bangaulegend]

I don’t think many understand his role - given some very ignorant comments

Or the difficulty in playing as a HF?!

For a HF to average 20 and 0.8 goals and a few tackles

Is akin to a Mid averaging 25+ with 5 tackles or a small forward averaging 1.5 goals

He’s not an elite footballer (ie Robbie Gray as a HF or what Stevie J was)

But he’s a damn good HF

Underrated for what he does and criticised for not being a champion!

Here’s the thing
Very few players are champions that’s what seperates them.

I agree with what you are saying but the fact is we all expected more & I think that is reasonable for a number 3 pick but yes he is very handy HFF

[Teflon]

I don’t think many understand his role - given some very ignorant comments

Or the difficulty in playing as a HF?!

For a HF to average 20 and 0.8 goals and a few tackles

Is akin to a Mid averaging 25+ with 5 tackles or a small forward averaging 1.5 goals

He’s not an elite footballer (ie Robbie Gray as a HF or what Stevie J was)

But he’s a damn good HF

Underrated for what he does and criticised for not being a champion!

Here’s the thing
Very few players are champions that’s what seperates them.

I agree with what you are saying but the fact is we all expected more & I think that is reasonable for a number 3 pick but yes he is very handy HFF

We’ll said
This is not controversial…the guys a good player - nothing special not top 3 class like you expect from that level pick

[takeaway]

I don’t think many understand his role - given some very ignorant comments

Or the difficulty in playing as a HF?!

For a HF to average 20 and 0.8 goals and a few tackles

Is akin to a Mid averaging 25+ with 5 tackles or a small forward averaging 1.5 goals

He’s not an elite footballer (ie Robbie Gray as a HF or what Stevie J was)

But he’s a damn good HF

Underrated for what he does and criticised for not being a champion!

Here’s the thing
Very few players are champions that’s what seperates them.

I agree with what you are saying but the fact is we all expected more & I think that is reasonable for a number 3 pick but yes he is very handy HFF

We’ll said
This is not controversial…the guys a good player - nothing special not top 3 class like you expect from that level pick

What "class" do you expect for a No. 3 pick? Apart from Judd and Martin, how many players have achieved that "class." Griffen? Maybe. Shannon Grant? Looking through the full list of Pick 3s, I think Saints did pretty well with Billings.

[skeptic]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

I disagree re consistency. I would argue that Billings is one of our most consistent players. Almost always at least 20 possessions, most of them effective.

Supporters seem to expect Billings to dominate and turn games. He is not that type of player, he is the oil in the machine, link man. He is not there primarily as a goal kicker, but to gain effective possessions all over the ground, usually from half back to full forward, and he invariably does that well, and can also be a danger up forward. He knows how to use space. He does need to improve his set shots.

Since distance covered stats have been available, he has always been in the top 5 for distance covered, which shows his role is not to just move around the forward line to kick goals. Often plays on the wing and roams right to the full back line. Covers more distance than Brad Hill, as per the player tracker stats.

People remember the spectacular, like King leaping high on a lead and converting (for once), but the do not often remember how it got there, often Billings is involved, quick handball or accurate kick, from anywhere on the ground.

Apart from the standout No 3 picks, ie Martin and Judd (who Billings will never get near), Billings stands up pretty well as a No 3 pick.

The number 3 pick thing doesn’t really factor into the conversation for me. That was ages ago. I accept that it may impact expectations for some but 8-9 years later, expectations are more likely based on what we’ve seen.
And that’s a player with talent to burn that should be consistently amongst and best.

And like I said before... he does in patches.

You said this
Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

Kind of the point. It’s always something.
His first half of the season in 2021 was blistering... he was really really good. Doesn’t need to be Judd and Martin rolled into one to be a good player.

It was the same in 2020... looked really really good at times and faded away for patches of the season. In that case it was in the middle of the year... and it’s not just for a week or two.

All I’m saying is that if he got a little more consistency to bring his baseline performance from ok to good... we’d be so much better for it.

There’s no question that the kid can play and is clearly top 22 and I certainly don’t want him traded.

For me personally... he’s still kind of in the ‘should be’ category... players that have been around for 5+ years that you want to play to a particular standard and they’re a degree off. He’s not in the team to be ok or compete.

Yes, I hope Billings apologised to the club last year for getting injured.

As for consistency, you could be talking about virtually any player, all have good and bad patches. I have no problems with his "standard" of play and he is among the most consistent, so we agree to disagree.

You’re easily pleased then. Most consistent?
Who cares if he carried an injury last year? Most of them carry something. If he can’t contribute effectively, which he didn’t, then he shouldn’t be playing. It appears he’s one of those players who struggles to play with injuries. So be it.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven’t been top 4. Not THE reason but we need him to step up like Sinclair has in the past 2 years.

I can’t believe you think he’s consistent? On what measures?

Last year's injury wasn't just a bit of a corky, Billings required injections in the foot to get on the ground. Would have diminished his capacity a bit you think? Still was an effective player, did he get dropped because he didn't contribute?

On what measures is he consistent? Other than game stats, which are only a rough guide, you just have to go with observations on watching the matches week in week out. Maybe I see things you don't notice, who knows? Game stats are a start though - have a look.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven't been top 4? Wow, he must be pretty good at his best then.

Last 5 games of 2021
Rd20 - 19d 0.2 loss to Carl
Rd19 - 15d 1.1 loss to Port
Rd18 - 16d 0.0 loss to WCE
Rd17 - 24d 1.1 win to Bris
Rd16 - 14d 0.1 loss to Coll

Statistically that dies scream the type of consistency you’re boasting

The Sinclair comparison is IMO a good one. Also like Ross this season. Those 2 produce win, loss or whatever. Always playing to how good we think they should be.
Want to see him closer to his best more often.

All well and good to point to injuries over the last 2 years but he has been in the list for what... 9 years at this point. He’s not here to be a HFF that does alright sometimes.

He’s here to be one of our best.

If Billings starts producing closer to what we know he’s capable of... we’re easily top 4 and we need him to do it.

Right now he’s behind Steele, Sinclair, Crouch, Gresh and Ross easily. Hill and Jones’ are producing more often even if they’re plagued by inconsistency for various reasons, In terms of importance, Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Wilkie, King, Membrey and Dmac all seem like more important players to the team. Higgins too whilst inconsistent is having more blistering performances more often.

To me... Billings is good enough to be top 5

Don't believe injuries played a part....

St Kilda’s Jack Billings is injury-free after a nagging foot injury required weekly injections in the second half of 2021.
He’s going to play mostly as a half-forward in 2022 after a career on the wing
@7NewsMelbourne

@7AFL
11:08 AM · Dec 10, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

I don’t even for a second doubt injuries played their part last year. 2 years ago I was very bullish on him... don’t you realise after a while that year after year he never quite reaches elite.

Now apparently according to that quote, he’s been a midfielder for years and he’s averaging 20 touches and has 2 top 5 finishes in the B&F in 9 years.

Is that elite? Do you think he’s an elite player?

[minneapolis]

He's not elite - in fact he is a big disappointment.

People are waiting for him to show a streak of game winning talent and he rarely has (except for that game against Foots).

NWM impressed in every game he has played. Sharman, Windhager, Connolly has given some some genuine excitement. 8 years in and we are still hoping Billings kicks two goals in a row from set shots.

[CQ SAINT]

He's not elite - in fact he is a big disappointment.

People are waiting for him to show a streak of game winning talent and he rarely has (except for that game against Foots).

NWM impressed in every game he has played. Sharman, Windhager, Connolly has given some some genuine excitement. 8 years in and we are still hoping Billings kicks two goals in a row from set shots.

This.

Billings often makes the hard things look easy, he is touted as an absolute pro in his preparation and discipline and is a good runner, off the ball.
However, for pretty skillful player, he often makes the easy things look hard.

[saintsRrising]

He's not elite - in fact he is a big disappointment.

People are waiting for him to show a streak of game winning talent and he rarely has (except for that game against Foots).

NWM impressed in every game he has played. Sharman, Windhager, Connolly has given some some genuine excitement. 8 years in and we are still hoping Billings kicks two goals in a row from set shots.

Yes NWM has looked impressive, and I am excited about him.

But if you are going to measure players by just their ability to actually convert goals then NWM has massively underachieved (in just this one aspect). Either behinds, or complete shanks. For a beautiful kick, between the goalposts has alluded him.

[repta]

He was good on the weekend. This coulld be his coming of age year.

Hasnt lived up to Top 3 pick yet in my opinion. I cant recall him completely dominating a game yet.

[saintsRrising]

Hasnt lived up to Top 3 pick yet in my opinion. I cant recall him completely dominating a game yet.

We really should forget him being taken as Pick 3 in terms of his performance.

Where that matters is in assessing the ability of the recruiter, and not the player.


Only thing that really matter is he Best 22 now, and the answer to that is yes.

[B.M]

Never dominated a game?

6 times he has polled 3 Brownlow Votes
6 times polling 2 Votes
Twice 1 vote

That mean there are at least 12 times he has been judged in the best 3 players on the ground. No easy feat as a high half forward!

He is NOT an elite AFL footballer

But is a quality HF who has high production average consistently

He could make more of his chances, other than that - a good player

Marked pretty hard because of draft position and the player drafted after him, but if you said you will get a 250 game player for that pick 3 - you’d take it!

[Gershwin]

I don't have any problem identifying him as a 12 - 18 player in the team. No better, no worse.

[B.M]

He is in our best 12 - easily

Funniest thing I heard in the post match

Dougal Howard -
“Seb and JB turned the game in the third quarter”

LMAO

[SaintPav]

I thought his first game back was exceptional.

Hopefully he will be the icing on the cake as that high HF

We need to lose the hang up of what draft pick he was. Ancient history. Not the greatest pick 3 but far from the worst either.

[bangaulegend]

I thought his first game back was exceptional.

Hopefully he will be the icing on the cake as that high HF

We need to lose the hang up of what draft pick he was. Ancient history. Not the greatest pick 3 but far from the worst either.

Spot on Pav well said

[cwrcyn]

Like I've written before, getting Billings was a two for one deal. Because we got Billings we got Sinclair as well (it was Billings who recommended Sinclair to the club). I reckon we did very nicely out of that pick 3.

[Gershwin]

He is in our best 12 - easily

Funniest thing I heard in the post match

Dougal Howard -
“Seb and JB turned the game in the third quarter”

LMAO

Steele, Sinclair, Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Wilkie, King, Membrey, Gresham, Crouch, Hill and Ross.
Who is he better than?

[Teflon]

I don’t think many understand his role - given some very ignorant comments

Or the difficulty in playing as a HF?!

For a HF to average 20 and 0.8 goals and a few tackles

Is akin to a Mid averaging 25+ with 5 tackles or a small forward averaging 1.5 goals

He’s not an elite footballer (ie Robbie Gray as a HF or what Stevie J was)

But he’s a damn good HF

Underrated for what he does and criticised for not being a champion!

Here’s the thing
Very few players are champions that’s what seperates them.

I agree with what you are saying but the fact is we all expected more & I think that is reasonable for a number 3 pick but yes he is very handy HFF

We’ll said
This is not controversial…the guys a good player - nothing special not top 3 class like you expect from that level pick

What "class" do you expect for a No. 3 pick? Apart from Judd and Martin, how many players have achieved that "class." Griffen? Maybe. Shannon Grant? Looking through the full list of Pick 3s, I think Saints did pretty well with Billings.

Oh I don’t know …..maybe the type of class the Dogs got through their later pick than 3?

I could care less what other clubs have done to stuff up pick 3 selections - it’s not about the number it’s about the choice.

The fact we blew it against Bont sitting there…irks….but that’s a top 3 pick I’m after ….or Judd ..

[Teflon]

He is in our best 12 - easily

Funniest thing I heard in the post match

Dougal Howard -
“Seb and JB turned the game in the third quarter”

LMAO

Steele, Sinclair, Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Wilkie, King, Membrey, Gresham, Crouch, Hill and Ross.
Who is he better than?

Your turn BM

[shanegrambeau]

Screw BM, I am Shane Grambeau, the greatest ruckman St Kilda has ever seen.
The best St Kilda players, at Round ten (or whatever it is) of 202 are,

In no order of ranking....
Just based on class..and value

1. King
2. Marshall
3. Hill
4. Howard
5.Gresham
6.Sinclair
7. Wilkie
8. Membrey
9. Paton
10. Sharman
11. Butler
12. Steele

Paddywhack oopss!

Emergencies: McKenzie

Billings COULD be there, but aint yet.

I know Butler has been a pile of s*** this year, but f*** it, I rank him.

[Devilhead]

How bout we allow Jack to settle into the team ..... he had a very good game against the Cats

[whiskers3614]

He is in our best 12 - easily

Funniest thing I heard in the post match

Dougal Howard -
“Seb and JB turned the game in the third quarter”

LMAO

Steele, Sinclair, Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Wilkie, King, Membrey, Gresham, Crouch, Hill and Ross.
Who is he better than?

On his overall ST,Kilda performances Hill is not fit to tie Billings" boot laces!

[desertsaint]

are you posting brownlow votes now bm? hmm.
billings is what he is - a decent player, overly criticised because he isnt half the player of the guy that went next in the draft. nor close to the one that went just before. better than many others that went soon after him though. he isnt top ten. as shown above unlikely to be in most people's top 12. In another season a couple more will have gone past him in the rankings unless something changes. could be top ten, should be perhaps. but isn't.
(i'd have him ahead of butler btw but i get what shane means - butler has the ability (not seen for over a season), to win games off his own back).

[CQ SAINT]

He is in our best 12 - easily

Funniest thing I heard in the post match

Dougal Howard -
“Seb and JB turned the game in the third quarter”

LMAO

Steele, Sinclair, Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Wilkie, King, Membrey, Gresham, Crouch, Hill and Ross.
Who is he better than?

On his overall ST,Kilda performances Hill is not fit to tie Billings" boot laces!

I bet he'd let Jack shine his premiership medallions though.

[SaintPav]

Some people should just keep living in the past….let me know how that works out for you..