Billings

[Scollop]

The selection committee also need to visit the site for the ‘Changes to next week’ thread each week

Plus ….maybe Ratts and the line coaches should keep an eye out for posts on game plan

[skeptic]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

[meher baba]

Billings is an outside player.

If the team is struggling to win the ball in the middle and/or clear it from its defensive 50, it will be difficult for outside players to contribute as much.

If Billings had a licence to roam more, it might be different. But there is never more than one such licence issued at most clubs, and at the Saints it is currently held by one B Hill.

[minneapolis]

the Saints need his class, he finds time and space and hits targets (except between the sticks).

I don't think he does hit his targets enough. For an "elite" kick, his hit rate is average.

Personally, if would trade him for a 15-20 pick if you could get one.

[bigcarl]

This is the best St Kilda side Billings has played in IMO and he will reap the benefits.

Oppositions have been able to put a lot of work into him. That’s not so easy now as others also demand attention.

He’s the type who can bob up with two or three goals in a big game. He may not be the superstar midfielder we’d hoped for, but don’t discount his worth to a good side.

[takeaway]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

I disagree re consistency. I would argue that Billings is one of our most consistent players. Almost always at least 20 possessions, most of them effective.

Supporters seem to expect Billings to dominate and turn games. He is not that type of player, he is the oil in the machine, link man. He is not there primarily as a goal kicker, but to gain effective possessions all over the ground, usually from half back to full forward, and he invariably does that well, and can also be a danger up forward. He knows how to use space. He does need to improve his set shots.

Since distance covered stats have been available, he has always been in the top 5 for distance covered, which shows his role is not to just move around the forward line to kick goals. Often plays on the wing and roams right to the full back line. Covers more distance than Brad Hill, as per the player tracker stats.

People remember the spectacular, like King leaping high on a lead and converting (for once), but the do not often remember how it got there, often Billings is involved, quick handball or accurate kick, from anywhere on the ground.

Apart from the standout No 3 picks, ie Martin and Judd (who Billings will never get near), Billings stands up pretty well as a No 3 pick.

[Ghost Like]

the Saints need his class, he finds time and space and hits targets (except between the sticks).

I don't think he does hit his targets enough. For an "elite" kick, his hit rate is average.

Personally, if would trade him for a 15-20 pick if you could get one.

There's not a club in the AFL that wouldn't find a late teens pick to get hold of Billings.

[D.B.Cooper]

. Last time he finished top 5 was 2019 so apparently it’s a good effort for a high half fwd? I can’t find any other evidence of him finishing top 5 in any other seasons but I’m happy to accept posters stating he has.

2017 he was top 5.

More importantly he was top 5 in the Saintsational award in both those years.

Still not great for a number 3 pick.

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103317

He's no Dustin Martin, I think Billings has been a successful #3 pick.
Should play 220 - 250 games for the club.
He's a real "icing on top" sort of player in a top team.

Billings selection at #3 stands up very well in comparison to the top #3 draft picks over a couple of years pre and post his draft.

2010 - Swallow - Bennell - Day
2011 - Paton - Coniglio - Tyson
2012 - Whitfield - O'Rourke - Plowman
2013 - Boyd - Kelly - Billings
2014 - McCartin - Petracca - Brayshaw
2015 - Weitering - Sache - Mills
2016 - McGrath - Taranto - McCluggage
2017 - Raynor - Brayshaw - Dow

[skeptic]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

I disagree re consistency. I would argue that Billings is one of our most consistent players. Almost always at least 20 possessions, most of them effective.

Supporters seem to expect Billings to dominate and turn games. He is not that type of player, he is the oil in the machine, link man. He is not there primarily as a goal kicker, but to gain effective possessions all over the ground, usually from half back to full forward, and he invariably does that well, and can also be a danger up forward. He knows how to use space. He does need to improve his set shots.

Since distance covered stats have been available, he has always been in the top 5 for distance covered, which shows his role is not to just move around the forward line to kick goals. Often plays on the wing and roams right to the full back line. Covers more distance than Brad Hill, as per the player tracker stats.

People remember the spectacular, like King leaping high on a lead and converting (for once), but the do not often remember how it got there, often Billings is involved, quick handball or accurate kick, from anywhere on the ground.

Apart from the standout No 3 picks, ie Martin and Judd (who Billings will never get near), Billings stands up pretty well as a No 3 pick.

The number 3 pick thing doesn’t really factor into the conversation for me. That was ages ago. I accept that it may impact expectations for some but 8-9 years later, expectations are more likely based on what we’ve seen.
And that’s a player with talent to burn that should be consistently amongst and best.

And like I said before... he does in patches.

You said this
Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

Kind of the point. It’s always something.
His first half of the season in 2021 was blistering... he was really really good. Doesn’t need to be Judd and Martin rolled into one to be a good player.

It was the same in 2020... looked really really good at times and faded away for patches of the season. In that case it was in the middle of the year... and it’s not just for a week or two.

All I’m saying is that if he got a little more consistency to bring his baseline performance from ok to good... we’d be so much better for it.

There’s no question that the kid can play and is clearly top 22 and I certainly don’t want him traded.

For me personally... he’s still kind of in the ‘should be’ category... players that have been around for 5+ years that you want to play to a particular standard and they’re a degree off. He’s not in the team to be ok or compete.

[takeaway]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

I disagree re consistency. I would argue that Billings is one of our most consistent players. Almost always at least 20 possessions, most of them effective.

Supporters seem to expect Billings to dominate and turn games. He is not that type of player, he is the oil in the machine, link man. He is not there primarily as a goal kicker, but to gain effective possessions all over the ground, usually from half back to full forward, and he invariably does that well, and can also be a danger up forward. He knows how to use space. He does need to improve his set shots.

Since distance covered stats have been available, he has always been in the top 5 for distance covered, which shows his role is not to just move around the forward line to kick goals. Often plays on the wing and roams right to the full back line. Covers more distance than Brad Hill, as per the player tracker stats.

People remember the spectacular, like King leaping high on a lead and converting (for once), but the do not often remember how it got there, often Billings is involved, quick handball or accurate kick, from anywhere on the ground.

Apart from the standout No 3 picks, ie Martin and Judd (who Billings will never get near), Billings stands up pretty well as a No 3 pick.

The number 3 pick thing doesn’t really factor into the conversation for me. That was ages ago. I accept that it may impact expectations for some but 8-9 years later, expectations are more likely based on what we’ve seen.
And that’s a player with talent to burn that should be consistently amongst and best.

And like I said before... he does in patches.

You said this
Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

Kind of the point. It’s always something.
His first half of the season in 2021 was blistering... he was really really good. Doesn’t need to be Judd and Martin rolled into one to be a good player.

It was the same in 2020... looked really really good at times and faded away for patches of the season. In that case it was in the middle of the year... and it’s not just for a week or two.

All I’m saying is that if he got a little more consistency to bring his baseline performance from ok to good... we’d be so much better for it.

There’s no question that the kid can play and is clearly top 22 and I certainly don’t want him traded.

For me personally... he’s still kind of in the ‘should be’ category... players that have been around for 5+ years that you want to play to a particular standard and they’re a degree off. He’s not in the team to be ok or compete.

Yes, I hope Billings apologised to the club last year for getting injured.

As for consistency, you could be talking about virtually any player, all have good and bad patches. I have no problems with his "standard" of play and he is among the most consistent, so we agree to disagree.

[Moods]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

I disagree re consistency. I would argue that Billings is one of our most consistent players. Almost always at least 20 possessions, most of them effective.

Supporters seem to expect Billings to dominate and turn games. He is not that type of player, he is the oil in the machine, link man. He is not there primarily as a goal kicker, but to gain effective possessions all over the ground, usually from half back to full forward, and he invariably does that well, and can also be a danger up forward. He knows how to use space. He does need to improve his set shots.

Since distance covered stats have been available, he has always been in the top 5 for distance covered, which shows his role is not to just move around the forward line to kick goals. Often plays on the wing and roams right to the full back line. Covers more distance than Brad Hill, as per the player tracker stats.

People remember the spectacular, like King leaping high on a lead and converting (for once), but the do not often remember how it got there, often Billings is involved, quick handball or accurate kick, from anywhere on the ground.

Apart from the standout No 3 picks, ie Martin and Judd (who Billings will never get near), Billings stands up pretty well as a No 3 pick.

The number 3 pick thing doesn’t really factor into the conversation for me. That was ages ago. I accept that it may impact expectations for some but 8-9 years later, expectations are more likely based on what we’ve seen.
And that’s a player with talent to burn that should be consistently amongst and best.

And like I said before... he does in patches.

You said this
Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

Kind of the point. It’s always something.
His first half of the season in 2021 was blistering... he was really really good. Doesn’t need to be Judd and Martin rolled into one to be a good player.

It was the same in 2020... looked really really good at times and faded away for patches of the season. In that case it was in the middle of the year... and it’s not just for a week or two.

All I’m saying is that if he got a little more consistency to bring his baseline performance from ok to good... we’d be so much better for it.

There’s no question that the kid can play and is clearly top 22 and I certainly don’t want him traded.

For me personally... he’s still kind of in the ‘should be’ category... players that have been around for 5+ years that you want to play to a particular standard and they’re a degree off. He’s not in the team to be ok or compete.

Yes, I hope Billings apologised to the club last year for getting injured.

As for consistency, you could be talking about virtually any player, all have good and bad patches. I have no problems with his "standard" of play and he is among the most consistent, so we agree to disagree.

You’re easily pleased then. Most consistent?
Who cares if he carried an injury last year? Most of them carry something. If he can’t contribute effectively, which he didn’t, then he shouldn’t be playing. It appears he’s one of those players who struggles to play with injuries. So be it.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven’t been top 4. Not THE reason but we need him to step up like Sinclair has in the past 2 years.

I can’t believe you think he’s consistent? On what measures?

[saynta]

f*** me. Talk about damning a player with faint praise.

Billings is a class act. which says more about him than the posters putting him down.

Some of the posts in this thread are truly "laughable".

[skeptic]

Would you have him in our top 10 beat players?

[spert]

If you want to win, you put quality in the team. Billings is quality, as is Sharman- these are guys who have something special.

[SaintPav]

f*** me. Talk about damning a player with faint praise.

Billings is a class act. which says more about him than the posters putting him down.

Some of the posts in this thread are truly "laughable".

First game back too. He’ll get better.

[takeaway]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

I disagree re consistency. I would argue that Billings is one of our most consistent players. Almost always at least 20 possessions, most of them effective.

Supporters seem to expect Billings to dominate and turn games. He is not that type of player, he is the oil in the machine, link man. He is not there primarily as a goal kicker, but to gain effective possessions all over the ground, usually from half back to full forward, and he invariably does that well, and can also be a danger up forward. He knows how to use space. He does need to improve his set shots.

Since distance covered stats have been available, he has always been in the top 5 for distance covered, which shows his role is not to just move around the forward line to kick goals. Often plays on the wing and roams right to the full back line. Covers more distance than Brad Hill, as per the player tracker stats.

People remember the spectacular, like King leaping high on a lead and converting (for once), but the do not often remember how it got there, often Billings is involved, quick handball or accurate kick, from anywhere on the ground.

Apart from the standout No 3 picks, ie Martin and Judd (who Billings will never get near), Billings stands up pretty well as a No 3 pick.

The number 3 pick thing doesn’t really factor into the conversation for me. That was ages ago. I accept that it may impact expectations for some but 8-9 years later, expectations are more likely based on what we’ve seen.
And that’s a player with talent to burn that should be consistently amongst and best.

And like I said before... he does in patches.

You said this
Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

Kind of the point. It’s always something.
His first half of the season in 2021 was blistering... he was really really good. Doesn’t need to be Judd and Martin rolled into one to be a good player.

It was the same in 2020... looked really really good at times and faded away for patches of the season. In that case it was in the middle of the year... and it’s not just for a week or two.

All I’m saying is that if he got a little more consistency to bring his baseline performance from ok to good... we’d be so much better for it.

There’s no question that the kid can play and is clearly top 22 and I certainly don’t want him traded.

For me personally... he’s still kind of in the ‘should be’ category... players that have been around for 5+ years that you want to play to a particular standard and they’re a degree off. He’s not in the team to be ok or compete.

Yes, I hope Billings apologised to the club last year for getting injured.

As for consistency, you could be talking about virtually any player, all have good and bad patches. I have no problems with his "standard" of play and he is among the most consistent, so we agree to disagree.

You’re easily pleased then. Most consistent?
Who cares if he carried an injury last year? Most of them carry something. If he can’t contribute effectively, which he didn’t, then he shouldn’t be playing. It appears he’s one of those players who struggles to play with injuries. So be it.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven’t been top 4. Not THE reason but we need him to step up like Sinclair has in the past 2 years.

I can’t believe you think he’s consistent? On what measures?

Last year's injury wasn't just a bit of a corky, Billings required injections in the foot to get on the ground. Would have diminished his capacity a bit you think? Still was an effective player, did he get dropped because he didn't contribute?

On what measures is he consistent? Other than game stats, which are only a rough guide, you just have to go with observations on watching the matches week in week out. Maybe I see things you don't notice, who knows? Game stats are a start though - have a look.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven't been top 4? Wow, he must be pretty good at his best then.

[Freebird]

f*** me. Talk about damning a player with faint praise.

Billings is a class act. which says more about him than the posters putting him down.

Some of the posts in this thread are truly "laughable".

Agree Saynta, has been injured for most of the past two years and a few morons on here blurb inconsistency. When he's not injured he plays to a high level but unfortunately he has constantly had interruptions through injuries.

[skeptic]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

I disagree re consistency. I would argue that Billings is one of our most consistent players. Almost always at least 20 possessions, most of them effective.

Supporters seem to expect Billings to dominate and turn games. He is not that type of player, he is the oil in the machine, link man. He is not there primarily as a goal kicker, but to gain effective possessions all over the ground, usually from half back to full forward, and he invariably does that well, and can also be a danger up forward. He knows how to use space. He does need to improve his set shots.

Since distance covered stats have been available, he has always been in the top 5 for distance covered, which shows his role is not to just move around the forward line to kick goals. Often plays on the wing and roams right to the full back line. Covers more distance than Brad Hill, as per the player tracker stats.

People remember the spectacular, like King leaping high on a lead and converting (for once), but the do not often remember how it got there, often Billings is involved, quick handball or accurate kick, from anywhere on the ground.

Apart from the standout No 3 picks, ie Martin and Judd (who Billings will never get near), Billings stands up pretty well as a No 3 pick.

The number 3 pick thing doesn’t really factor into the conversation for me. That was ages ago. I accept that it may impact expectations for some but 8-9 years later, expectations are more likely based on what we’ve seen.
And that’s a player with talent to burn that should be consistently amongst and best.

And like I said before... he does in patches.

You said this
Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

Kind of the point. It’s always something.
His first half of the season in 2021 was blistering... he was really really good. Doesn’t need to be Judd and Martin rolled into one to be a good player.

It was the same in 2020... looked really really good at times and faded away for patches of the season. In that case it was in the middle of the year... and it’s not just for a week or two.

All I’m saying is that if he got a little more consistency to bring his baseline performance from ok to good... we’d be so much better for it.

There’s no question that the kid can play and is clearly top 22 and I certainly don’t want him traded.

For me personally... he’s still kind of in the ‘should be’ category... players that have been around for 5+ years that you want to play to a particular standard and they’re a degree off. He’s not in the team to be ok or compete.

Yes, I hope Billings apologised to the club last year for getting injured.

As for consistency, you could be talking about virtually any player, all have good and bad patches. I have no problems with his "standard" of play and he is among the most consistent, so we agree to disagree.

You’re easily pleased then. Most consistent?
Who cares if he carried an injury last year? Most of them carry something. If he can’t contribute effectively, which he didn’t, then he shouldn’t be playing. It appears he’s one of those players who struggles to play with injuries. So be it.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven’t been top 4. Not THE reason but we need him to step up like Sinclair has in the past 2 years.

I can’t believe you think he’s consistent? On what measures?

Last year's injury wasn't just a bit of a corky, Billings required injections in the foot to get on the ground. Would have diminished his capacity a bit you think? Still was an effective player, did he get dropped because he didn't contribute?

On what measures is he consistent? Other than game stats, which are only a rough guide, you just have to go with observations on watching the matches week in week out. Maybe I see things you don't notice, who knows? Game stats are a start though - have a look.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven't been top 4? Wow, he must be pretty good at his best then.

Last 5 games of 2021
Rd20 - 19d 0.2 loss to Carl
Rd19 - 15d 1.1 loss to Port
Rd18 - 16d 0.0 loss to WCE
Rd17 - 24d 1.1 win to Bris
Rd16 - 14d 0.1 loss to Coll

Statistically that dies scream the type of consistency you’re boasting

The Sinclair comparison is IMO a good one. Also like Ross this season. Those 2 produce win, loss or whatever. Always playing to how good we think they should be.
Want to see him closer to his best more often.

All well and good to point to injuries over the last 2 years but he has been in the list for what... 9 years at this point. He’s not here to be a HFF that does alright sometimes.

He’s here to be one of our best.

If Billings starts producing closer to what we know he’s capable of... we’re easily top 4 and we need him to do it.

Right now he’s behind Steele, Sinclair, Crouch, Gresh and Ross easily. Hill and Jones’ are producing more often even if they’re plagued by inconsistency for various reasons, In terms of importance, Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Wilkie, King, Membrey and Dmac all seem like more important players to the team. Higgins too whilst inconsistent is having more blistering performances more often.

To me... Billings is good enough to be top 5

[Ghost Like]

Nothing like a Billings thread to annoy those who live in hindsight. Not quite as good as a Petracca thread but at least people on here genuinely only wanted Petracca. The irony with a Billings thread is that no one can link their screams for Bontempelli because they did not exist. There may be a link to the Bont being related to Dal Santo but that's it.

Pretty hard on the actual player, Billings, who has carved out a very respectful career in an era of a putridly coached and run St Kilda Football Club...until now.

He's been a lot better than alot of #3's chosen before & after. He's also been better value than some #1 selections made before & during his career.

His hindsight selection will still keep him thereabouts. To say, he's a problem is simply not fair on the player. That's the cross to be worn by those who bask in hindsight and those charged with our recruiting. Personally, I think we got JB as correct as we could have at the time.

[Banger9798]

Interesting watching the post game address by Ratten (in access all areas members feed), and he highlighted Long and Windhagers efforts.
Then he through it over to the players and asked what they thought and I think it was Wilkie who said it was the workrate of Billings and Seb Ross

They are obviously very highly rated by their teammates and that has got to be the most important metric.

[skeptic]

This conversation has kind of gone in two directions...
I don’t think there’s much argument that it was a good return to the seniors for Billings and we all hope he can stay on the park and build on that effort.

The second discussion is whether his performance is more or less at peak level for him or can he get better. I reckon he has a gear or two to go up yet

[takeaway]

Last 5 games of 2021
Rd20 - 19d 0.2 loss to Carl
Rd19 - 15d 1.1 loss to Port
Rd18 - 16d 0.0 loss to WCE
Rd17 - 24d 1.1 win to Bris
Rd16 - 14d 0.1 loss to Coll

Statistically that dies scream the type of consistency you’re boasting

The Sinclair comparison is IMO a good one. Also like Ross this season. Those 2 produce win, loss or whatever. Always playing to how good we think they should be.
Want to see him closer to his best more often.

All well and good to point to injuries over the last 2 years but he has been in the list for what... 9 years at this point. He’s not here to be a HFF that does alright sometimes.

He’s here to be one of our best.

If Billings starts producing closer to what we know he’s capable of... we’re easily top 4 and we need him to do it.

Right now he’s behind Steele, Sinclair, Crouch, Gresh and Ross easily. Hill and Jones’ are producing more often even if they’re plagued by inconsistency for various reasons, In terms of importance, Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Wilkie, King, Membrey and Dmac all seem like more important players to the team. Higgins too whilst inconsistent is having more blistering performances more often.

To me... Billings is good enough to be top 5

You're quoting stats in 5 games out of nearly 150? What does that extremely poor sample size prove anyway? Absolutely nothing.

You must have a really high opinion of the capability of Billings, easily top 4 if he reaches his absolute best? I don't share that view. It will take a lot more than that to reach top 4.

He is one our best though, and has only played one game this year. He has also spent a lot of time on the wing, not just HFF.

[Freebird]

.
Really want to see him play out the rest of the season and have top 10 B&F finish

I'm not sure our B&F voting system allows for players who miss large portions of the season any chance of a Top 10 finish. Don't they all get votes in games played or something similar?

It favours participation, durability and quality. Once a player misses 4 or more his chances of a Top 10 are cooked.

I’m sure too sure about that but it’s outside the general scope of what I mean.

Try it this way… a few years ago, Teflon and I had a discussion about trading him. He was pro and I was against - can’t get rid of quality, he’s on the verge of stepping onto the elite quality I said.

Since then, he’s missed the first 6 or so games this year
Last year he had a blistering start to the season and fell away in the second half

2020 he went missing on the middle of the season when we had those losses. Brisbane was when and maybe WCE the other (unsure of the second one)… finished the year flatter

Then you go back and think about him overall and it’s almost always the same story
Has a purple patch then falls away. Don’t get many really good whole years from him

That consistency is what he needs to elevate his game

Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

I disagree re consistency. I would argue that Billings is one of our most consistent players. Almost always at least 20 possessions, most of them effective.

Supporters seem to expect Billings to dominate and turn games. He is not that type of player, he is the oil in the machine, link man. He is not there primarily as a goal kicker, but to gain effective possessions all over the ground, usually from half back to full forward, and he invariably does that well, and can also be a danger up forward. He knows how to use space. He does need to improve his set shots.

Since distance covered stats have been available, he has always been in the top 5 for distance covered, which shows his role is not to just move around the forward line to kick goals. Often plays on the wing and roams right to the full back line. Covers more distance than Brad Hill, as per the player tracker stats.

People remember the spectacular, like King leaping high on a lead and converting (for once), but the do not often remember how it got there, often Billings is involved, quick handball or accurate kick, from anywhere on the ground.

Apart from the standout No 3 picks, ie Martin and Judd (who Billings will never get near), Billings stands up pretty well as a No 3 pick.

The number 3 pick thing doesn’t really factor into the conversation for me. That was ages ago. I accept that it may impact expectations for some but 8-9 years later, expectations are more likely based on what we’ve seen.
And that’s a player with talent to burn that should be consistently amongst and best.

And like I said before... he does in patches.

You said this
Billings played most of 2021 with a foot injury, and did very well considering.

Kind of the point. It’s always something.
His first half of the season in 2021 was blistering... he was really really good. Doesn’t need to be Judd and Martin rolled into one to be a good player.

It was the same in 2020... looked really really good at times and faded away for patches of the season. In that case it was in the middle of the year... and it’s not just for a week or two.

All I’m saying is that if he got a little more consistency to bring his baseline performance from ok to good... we’d be so much better for it.

There’s no question that the kid can play and is clearly top 22 and I certainly don’t want him traded.

For me personally... he’s still kind of in the ‘should be’ category... players that have been around for 5+ years that you want to play to a particular standard and they’re a degree off. He’s not in the team to be ok or compete.

Yes, I hope Billings apologised to the club last year for getting injured.

As for consistency, you could be talking about virtually any player, all have good and bad patches. I have no problems with his "standard" of play and he is among the most consistent, so we agree to disagree.

You’re easily pleased then. Most consistent?
Who cares if he carried an injury last year? Most of them carry something. If he can’t contribute effectively, which he didn’t, then he shouldn’t be playing. It appears he’s one of those players who struggles to play with injuries. So be it.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven’t been top 4. Not THE reason but we need him to step up like Sinclair has in the past 2 years.

I can’t believe you think he’s consistent? On what measures?

Last year's injury wasn't just a bit of a corky, Billings required injections in the foot to get on the ground. Would have diminished his capacity a bit you think? Still was an effective player, did he get dropped because he didn't contribute?

On what measures is he consistent? Other than game stats, which are only a rough guide, you just have to go with observations on watching the matches week in week out. Maybe I see things you don't notice, who knows? Game stats are a start though - have a look.

Billings is one of the reasons we haven't been top 4? Wow, he must be pretty good at his best then.

Last 5 games of 2021
Rd20 - 19d 0.2 loss to Carl
Rd19 - 15d 1.1 loss to Port
Rd18 - 16d 0.0 loss to WCE
Rd17 - 24d 1.1 win to Bris
Rd16 - 14d 0.1 loss to Coll

Statistically that dies scream the type of consistency you’re boasting

The Sinclair comparison is IMO a good one. Also like Ross this season. Those 2 produce win, loss or whatever. Always playing to how good we think they should be.
Want to see him closer to his best more often.

All well and good to point to injuries over the last 2 years but he has been in the list for what... 9 years at this point. He’s not here to be a HFF that does alright sometimes.

He’s here to be one of our best.

If Billings starts producing closer to what we know he’s capable of... we’re easily top 4 and we need him to do it.

Right now he’s behind Steele, Sinclair, Crouch, Gresh and Ross easily. Hill and Jones’ are producing more often even if they’re plagued by inconsistency for various reasons, In terms of importance, Marshall, Ryder, Howard, Wilkie, King, Membrey and Dmac all seem like more important players to the team. Higgins too whilst inconsistent is having more blistering performances more often.

To me... Billings is good enough to be top 5

Don't believe injuries played a part....

St Kilda’s Jack Billings is injury-free after a nagging foot injury required weekly injections in the second half of 2021.
He’s going to play mostly as a half-forward in 2022 after a career on the wing
@7NewsMelbourne

@7AFL
11:08 AM · Dec 10, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

[bangaulegend]

There is no doubt JB is a good player in fact a very good player but I was hoping for more when we picked him up at number 3 call me selfish but I was hoping he would become a midfielder IMO you don't pick blokes at pick 3 to be half forward flankers for their entire careers , but yeah it is what it is very good but ATM not great I hope he continues to improve & become a one club player

[Teflon]

[flash=][/flash]

Nothing like a Billings thread to annoy those who live in hindsight. Not quite as good as a Petracca thread but at least people on here genuinely only wanted Petracca. The irony with a Billings thread is that no one can link their screams for Bontempelli because they did not exist. There may be a link to the Bont being related to Dal Santo but that's it.

Pretty hard on the actual player, Billings, who has carved out a very respectful career in an era of a putridly coached and run St Kilda Football Club...until now.

He's been a lot better than alot of #3's chosen before & after. He's also been better value than some #1 selections made before & during his career.

His hindsight selection will still keep him thereabouts. To say, he's a problem is simply not fair on the player. That's the cross to be worn by those who bask in hindsight and those charged with our recruiting. Personally, I think we got JB as correct as we could have at the time.

Dross.