Team v Power

[Killa]

What bemuses me is the expectations put on players

With players such as Ryder and Crouch, they came as very good footballers and you would expect then to perform (and even better after settling into the Club and learning who is around them)

Others such as Membrey, Butler, Howard, Higgins et al came for more opportunity so you look for them to benefit from that opportunity

To expect that drafted players are going to be “star” players in the early stages of their careers and deliver a premiership is folly

There are exceptions - but they are few and far between

Generally , from just 18 when drafted from schoolboy football, they have to build AFL ready bodies plus the endurance to impact consistently at AFL level

Then it is who surrounds them, Windhager being a case in point, on managed time including in the centre square

Due to interruptions Bytel is how many games into his AFL career?

As an inside mid in the heat of the battle

And he is criticised for not being a “star”, at 22 years of age with just a few games experience

His attributes as a footballer dissected by who exactly?

That is what I meant by offering opinion on the opinions recorded on this site

Noting that one contributor seems to always put some nebulous rubbish after my offerings - for whatever reasons

What we are looking at is the players on our List who are approaching 30 years of age - and which of our younger players are going to stand up in their stead - because our window is over the next couple of years

[Vortex]

What bemuses me is the expectations put on players

With players such as Ryder and Crouch, they came as very good footballers and you would expect then to perform (and even better after settling into the Club and learning who is around them)

Others such as Membrey, Butler, Howard, Higgins et al came for more opportunity so you look for them to benefit from that opportunity

To expect that drafted players are going to be “star” players in the early stages of their careers and deliver a premiership is folly

There are exceptions - but they are few and far between

Generally , from just 18 when drafted from schoolboy football, they have to build AFL ready bodies plus the endurance to impact consistently at AFL level

Then it is who surrounds them, Windhager being a case in point, on managed time including in the centre square

Due to interruptions Bytel is how many games into his AFL career?

As an inside mid in the heat of the battle

And he is criticised for not being a “star”, at 22 years of age with just a few games experience

His attributes as a footballer dissected by who exactly?

That is what I meant by offering opinion on the opinions recorded on this site

Noting that one contributor seems to always put some nebulous rubbish after my offerings - for whatever reasons

What we are looking at is the players on our List who are approaching 30 years of age - and which of our younger players are going to stand up in their stead - because our window is over the next couple of years

You make it sound like nebulous rubbish is beneath you.

[Killa]

Sucked in again, hey?

[Vortex]

Sucked in again, hey?

Is that why you call yourself Killa.

[Scollop]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest… I really want to see some of these kids that are trying to push there way: Connolly and Bytel in particular

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.

You’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?

Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.

It would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.

All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.

Why? That’s what you do best. I reckon stick to what you’re good at and leave the footy analysis and predictions on players’ potential to those that have a clue

If Jack Bytel gets a decent run injury free and gets another 50 games under his belt, I believe he has the potential to be our best inside mid. I also think he has very good leadership qualities. We don’t need to go looking to import ‘on field leaders’ (like the previous coach and Lethlean thought would be a good idea) when we have outstanding young men like NWM, Windy and Bytel and Owens in the team

I think we can ‘justify the investment’ when you compare the money paid to some of the other players on the list. Players that cost considerably more and you were happy for St Kilda to recruit even though there were major doubts for return on investment

[Vortex]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest… I really want to see some of these kids that are trying to push there way: Connolly and Bytel in particular

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.

You’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?

Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.

It would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.

All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.

Why? That’s what you do best. I reckon stick to what you’re good at and leave the footy analysis and predictions on players’ potential to those that have a clue

If Jack Bytel gets a decent run injury free and gets another 50 games under his belt, I believe he has the potential to be our best inside mid. I also think he has very good leadership qualities. We don’t need to go looking to import ‘on field leaders’ (like the previous coach and Lethlean thought would be a good idea) when we have outstanding young men like NWM, Windy and Bytel and Owens in the team

I think we can ‘justify the investment’ when you compare the money paid to some of the other players on the list. Players that cost considerably more and you were happy for St Kilda to recruit even though there were major doubts for return on investment

Bitchy much.

[Scollop]

There you go. That’s better

[Vortex]

There you go. That’s better

You're welcome.

[Yorkeys]

Bytel's lack of improvement is a bit disappointing. Perhaps legacy of his back injury? Seems a fraction slow for AFL in reaction time and over the ground. Hope it all comes together for him soon because it looks like he is behind Owens and Byrnes amongst the VFL contingent. Clark, Jones and Billings certainly in front of him. Seems quite injury prone, despite his physique? Can see why he may be looking around.

[saynta]

There you go. That’s better

[Vortex]

Bytel's lack of improvement is a bit disappointing. Perhaps legacy of his back injury? Seems a fraction slow for AFL in reaction time and over the ground. Hope it all comes together for him soon because it looks like he is behind Owens and Byrnes amongst the VFL contingent. Clark, Jones and Billings certainly in front of him. Seems quite injury prone, despite his physique? Can see why he may be looking around.

I'm sure we all want fringe players like Bytel to succeed because the reality is we are still short on depth of quality in the midfield and for us to become a sustainable top 4 side it's vitally important players like Bytel make the grade otherwise we will remain stuck in the glut of clubs fighting for middle ladder positions. Ideally he can deliver on the hype of a few years ago and become A grade to elite.

[shanegrambeau]

Chaps and Ladies

Still got no idea about his attributes here from you except that he is slow.

Can he mark?
Leap?
Kick?
Step sideways?
Good hands at ground level? (Ala the Nick W finger scoop off the deck)
Good tank?
Bump?

He is a biggish mid right?
189cm is decent height.

Would you say he is an ‘all-rounder’ rather than a player that brings special tools in his kit?

[shanegrambeau]

Chaps and Ladies

Still got no idea about his attributes here from you except that he is slow.

Can he mark?
Leap?
Kick?
Step sideways?
Good hands at ground level? (Ala the Nick W finger scoop off the deck)
Good tank?
Bump?

He is a biggish mid right?
189cm is decent height.

Would you say he is an ‘all-rounder’ rather than a player that brings special tools in his kit?

[Saintmike65]

Chaps and Ladies

Still got no idea about his attributes here from you except that he is slow.

Can he mark?
Leap?
Kick?
Step sideways?
Good hands at ground level? (Ala the Nick W finger scoop off the deck)
Good tank?
Bump?

He is a biggish mid right?
189cm is decent height.

Would you say he is an ‘all-rounder’ rather than a player that brings special tools in his kit?

From what I’ve seen Bytel’s main attribute is quick hands in congestion.
Kicks both feet but not elite, needs to build his tank further to enable him to spread and get to more contests.
Gotta feeling he’ll end up behind Windhager and Owens.

[CQ SAINT]

Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.

This aged pretty well mate.

[Ghost Like]

Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.

This aged pretty well mate.

Yep, Campbell won't play too many games. That said, Campbell cannot kick for King, Higgins & Gresham.

Are you still posting your membership in or feel like handing it in in person?

[CQ SAINT]

Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.

This aged pretty well mate.

Yep, Campbell won't play too many games. That said, Campbell cannot kick for King, Higgins & Gresham.

Are you still posting your membership in or feel like handing it in in person?

Not likely, I just spent $2000 on flights accommodation and the official match function. Never uttered a word about giving up any of my 7 memberships.

I just thought my changes and the reasons for them were right. Only thing I'm sure of now, is Hunter would have been a better selection than Campbell. At least he was an unknown dud.

[Ghost Like]

Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.

This aged pretty well mate.

Yep, Campbell won't play too many games. That said, Campbell cannot kick for King, Higgins & Gresham.

Are you still posting your membership in or feel like handing it in in person?

Not likely, I just spent $2000 on flights accommodation and the official match function. Never uttered a word about giving up any of my 7 memberships.

I just thought my changes and the reasons for them were right. Only thing I'm sure of now, is Hunter would have been a better selection than Campbell. At least he was an unknown dud.

But what if Butler gets selected next week? Weren't you sending them back to the club?

You were pumping for Heath, I believed the conditions would suit Campbell better, so did the selectors. I don't believe Heath would have made the difference. Sharman may have OR the coaching staff reading the tea leaves and subbing Campbell off "with tightness" and allow Lienert to play back, moving Membrey or Battle into the ruck.

[CQ SAINT]

Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.

This aged pretty well mate.

Yep, Campbell won't play too many games. That said, Campbell cannot kick for King, Higgins & Gresham.

Are you still posting your membership in or feel like handing it in in person?

Not likely, I just spent $2000 on flights accommodation and the official match function. Never uttered a word about giving up any of my 7 memberships.

I just thought my changes and the reasons for them were right. Only thing I'm sure of now, is Hunter would have been a better selection than Campbell. At least he was an unknown dud.

But what if Butler gets selected next week? Weren't you sending them back to the club?

You were pumping for Heath, I believed the conditions would suit Campbell better, so did the selectors. I don't believe Heath would have made the difference. Sharman may have OR the coaching staff reading the tea leaves and subbing Campbell off "with tightness" and allow Lienert to play back, moving Membrey or Battle into the ruck.

You'll have to find the post and remind me. My memberships are painted on for life.
On form, Heath would have kicked the goal, gotten 10 hit outs and played like a ruck. Campbell hadn't played in 2 matches, it was going to be wet and he had f****** COVID. He is probably a great bloke, team first, save the planet and all that stuff but hmmm. 10 years, 52 games and unfortunately not even close to up to it.
Heath is the future. That's why you play him.

[CQ SAINT]

f***, we could have bubble wrapped Marshall and gotten more.

[Ghost Like]

In the Match Thread

Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.

Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.

I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.

[CQ SAINT]

In the Match Thread

Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.

Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.

I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.

This is the perfect spot to point out that I am CQ, not ImpatientSainter.
If I was just recalling differences of opinions and pinging blokes for them, I'd say, you have no idea who you are even talking to, let alone what you ate talking about. But I won't.

Campbell hadnt played in weeks, has had COVID and has played 52 games in 10 years and you referenced a VFL game against Richmond 3 weeks, thinking that form in the wet, was a good reason to play him.

One of us is confused and it ain't me.

[Ghost Like]

In the Match Thread

Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.

Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.

I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.

This is the perfect spot to point out that I am CQ, not ImpatientSainter.
If I was just recalling differences of opinions and pinging blokes for them, I'd say, you have no idea who you are even talking to, let alone what you ate talking about. But I won't.

Campbell hadnt played in weeks, has had COVID and has played 52 games in 10 years and you referenced a VFL game against Richmond 3 weeks, thinking that form in the wet, was a good reason to play him.

One of us is confused and it ain't me.

Oops, you are spot on. My apologies CQ.

[CQ SAINT]

In the Match Thread

Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.

Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.

I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.

This is the perfect spot to point out that I am CQ, not ImpatientSainter.
If I was just recalling differences of opinions and pinging blokes for them, I'd say, you have no idea who you are even talking to, let alone what you ate talking about. But I won't.

Campbell hadnt played in weeks, has had COVID and has played 52 games in 10 years and you referenced a VFL game against Richmond 3 weeks, thinking that form in the wet, was a good reason to play him.

One of us is confused and it ain't me.

Oops, you are spot on. My apologies CQ.

All good mate. I dont rate Campbell, I shouldn't bag him and its not his fault he was selected.

[samuraisaint]

The following players are best 18 and didn't play last night:
Hannebery
Jones
Billings
Marshall
Clark
Of those, four haven't played a single match all season and they certainly would've made a difference.