Team v Power

[meher baba]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest… I really want to see some of these kids that are trying to push there way: Connolly and Bytel in particular

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.

You’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?

Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.

[meher baba]

On the team selection in general: I would assume Marshall is not fit enough to play, rather than being rested for the Demons game.

This game is much more of a “must win” game for us. The Demons are going to beat most other teams: possibly all of them If they can avoid significant injury problems.

Beating Geelong is also more important. If Marshall misses two weeks and is right for the Cats, that’s fine by me.

[Cordz2]

Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.

Good point

[Vortex]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest… I really want to see some of these kids that are trying to push there way: Connolly and Bytel in particular

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.

You’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?

Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.

It would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.

All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.

[CQ SAINT]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest… I really want to see some of these kids that are trying to push there way: Connolly and Bytel in particular

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.

You’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?

Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.

It would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.

All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.

The strategy being used is not to pressure the 22 year old, former speculative top 10 draft, who missed 2 years of development due to injury and seems to have been successful there.
His 10 best games so far have shown enough raw talent and his worst detract from his displays of influence.
We've invested more in others, they are the ones feeling the pressure and now producing results. Bytel is just going to get fitter and fitter, waiting for his chance.
For those of you looking for hero's, who come in the night, look elsewhere.
This is what development looks like.
Picking kids in the top 10 is easy, if you have the picks.

[Killa]

You always have an eye on the future, not only with Drafting and recruiting but with putting development into young players who are on your List

And you are aware of the age demographic of your List, particularly your first choice players

In regard Bytel (and others) they can play

For the final Round last season, Dunstan was dropped for Bytel (who played well and kicked a couple of goals)

So Bytel is on the radar

His time will come

And the grounding he is undergoing will serve him well when his time comes

The other fact is that we have improved our List over the last year or so and post Gallagher and his forensic analysis

So show patience people

All AFL sides have reserve sides - for a reason

The stronger that Reserves side is the stronger the League side

[Saintmike65]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest… I really want to see some of these kids that are trying to push there way: Connolly and Bytel in particular

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.

You’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?

Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.

It would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.

All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.

You can throw in Windhager, Owens and Byrnes for midfield competition!

[Vortex]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest… I really want to see some of these kids that are trying to push there way: Connolly and Bytel in particular

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.

You’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?

Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.

It would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.

All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.

The strategy being used is not to pressure the 22 year old, former speculative top 10 draft, who missed 2 years of development due to injury and seems to have been successful there.
His 10 best games so far have shown enough raw talent and his worst detract from his displays of influence.
We've invested more in others, they are the ones feeling the pressure and now producing results. Bytel is just going to get fitter and fitter, waiting for his chance.
For those of you looking for hero's, who come in the night, look elsewhere.
This is what development looks like.
Picking kids in the top 10 is easy, if you have the picks.

I say this with tongue firmly planted in cheek; so what you are saying Jack doesn't feel any pressure because he's in that special squad we have for those players who like to choose their own adventure.

But seriously don't get me wrong, my cheeky input is more a subtle backhander towards the brigade who pegged Jack as an automatic selection after one game, a bit like Sharman somehow become best 22 over summer.

Maybe we should strike a medal to award to our most over hyped player and call in the Spencer 'Buddy' White award.

But on Bytel we really need him to live up to the hype because our midfield whilst having played really well for the first 6 rounds, arguably over achieved, we are still short of some depth of quality. I'm in the Bytel fan club.

[Cordz2]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest… I really want to see some of these kids that are trying to push there way: Connolly and Bytel in particular

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.

You’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?

Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.

It would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.

All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.

The strategy being used is not to pressure the 22 year old, former speculative top 10 draft, who missed 2 years of development due to injury and seems to have been successful there.
His 10 best games so far have shown enough raw talent and his worst detract from his displays of influence.
We've invested more in others, they are the ones feeling the pressure and now producing results. Bytel is just going to get fitter and fitter, waiting for his chance.
For those of you looking for hero's, who come in the night, look elsewhere.
This is what development looks like.
Picking kids in the top 10 is easy, if you have the picks.

+1

[skeptic]

I think Bytel has had a few really good games at AFL level but like many youngsters, has struggled with consistency.

His output has generally been better than what Windy has brought to the table so far (and understandably so) and given he (Windhager) hasn’t dominated to date and Bytel is playing well at Sandy… personally I think it’s time to mix it up a bit.

There are a lot of players there that need to play/have exposure to improve over time.

Personally I’m a really big advocate of the approach to change it around here and there. Windhager has done well for a first year player and he’ll be back… at present, his performances whilst promising, are from making him a lock.

This is a huge game for us… personally I’d be happier with Bytel in the team and letting him have a run at it for a couple of weeks.
Or Connolly for that matter. Byrnes pbly needs another too at some point

[Killa]

We need to continue to win games - as always.

So you put your best available side on the park - each and every week (and, yes, there may be match ups to consider).

We have injuries, Coffield and Clark (both class players) missing from our defence.

We have Billings and Jones coming back from absences (in the Reserves this week) - and we have Hannebery working to his return.

What these players who are unavailable have done is given opportunity to others, and we see the development of (particularly) McKenzie (now 25) and Webster (now 28) plus the likes of Wood (27) and Lienert (27) recently from other Clubs where they have been de-listed getting opportunity and performing to the level.

And even Ross (28).

For this weekend, we see another player recruited from elsewhere in Campbell (30) stepping in in place of Marshall.

IF we ever get to put a "full strength" side on the park, who misses out?

It is (currently) a very good position to be in, noting you are ever only as good as your last game.

Into this mix, we have the young players we have drafted, Wanganeen-Milera and Windhager playing (again) this weekend plus Owens, Byrnes and Highmore as Emergencies.

Then those at Reserves level, which includes Bytel, who is just 22 years of age (so is McKenzie and his achievements a role model?).

Among the others who appear on that Team List

We have the next mid-season opportunity to add to our List, given Coffield and Hayes will miss the season.

So that will be interesting - including the demographic we target given we are active.

In terms of 2023, when I would expect us to really start to challenge, we have already recruited Coffield (as we have "recruited" Gresham this year).

So that is a very good start point.

Noting the reliance on Ryder hence the importance of the development of Heath.

Plus we recruit from other Clubs, of course.

Which is how we got Ryder, Membrey, Steele, Hannebery, Hill, Jones, Howard, Crouch and Butler. all "best 22" players.




Fortunately, those responsible for the St Kilda on field performance are more nuanced than some on here

[saintsRrising]

On the team selection in general: I would assume Marshall is not fit enough to play, rather than being rested for the Demons game.

My guess as he seemed to be moving ok in the videos this week is that it is more prevention in that another knock could escalate matters.

Against GWS he copped a cork on a cork that he had received at training, and that made it much worse.

If were playing the GF this week I think he would be selected.

But with Port just having the just one ruck in their team, and a guy who is both young and has only played 3 games, I think our selectors are comfortable that playing a Ryder/TC combination should give us a good edge in the ruck anyway.

TC is no Marshall, but he is competent and has a mature body and 54 AFL games. At VFL level he tends to out play young raw rucks like Hayes.

Last week Hayes was against only WAFL level rucks.

This game is much more of a “must win” game for us.

It may be, but I think as mentioned above that Ryder/TC are more than ample to deal with Hayes and that why Marshall is better than TC, that it will not be crucial in this game.

Marshall's corky is still their and I think that they are concerned that another knock now could flair it. Though if it was really bad he would not have flown to Cairns.

The Demons are going to beat most other teams: possibly all of them If they can avoid significant injury problems.

While true, we really want to test them with our best possible team to get a good measure of where we are at. Including how we structure up on the day.

To do that we really want a fit Marshall/Ryder combination to take on Gawn/Jackson. Billings and Jones are quite likely to be and so our team is probably going to be about as good as it can be this season.

Importantly by the time we take on the Cats it should a bit better with Billings and Jones having had more gametime.

Beating Geelong is also more important. If Marshall misses two weeks and is right for the Cats, that’s fine by me.

While true, I think injury wise that it makes more sense to rest Marshall this week. Apart from his corky I think he had had a few niggles in every game this season and so resting this week sets him up better for the Dees, Cats and Crows games. O'Brien is a very good ruckman.



If Marshall is to miss a game, then this is the game for him to miss.

He gets a break now, then a brace of games and then another break at the BYE.

[Vortex]

Fortunately, those responsible for the St Kilda on field performance are more nuanced than some on here

What you may not be aware of is the weekly conversations I have with Ratts to pass on SS IP and for that he's truly appreciative and the results speak for themselves.

You're welcome.

[bigcarl]

I would assume Marshall is not fit enough to play, rather than being rested for the Demons game.

You’d assume so. It’s not as if we have sown up a spot in the top four yet and, on paper, this game is more winnable than the Demons one. Plus both games are worth exactly four premiership points.

[Beno88]

Tom Campbell's first 9 games at the Dogs were losses.

His first 8 games at North were losses.

Since Round 14, 2017, he's played in one win.

He's due.

[shanegrambeau]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest…

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap…….
….were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year…….

Jack Bytel……is a fairly average performer…

….how long will Bytel be given ….is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? ….needs to have shown something before seasons end…

Bytel has had one season basically, or one and a half.

You can’t count those years in rehab and say that they justify anything.

He is where he is.

Probably a handy reserve?

Given the injuries to Hunter and Jones , it is quite telling that he is running around in Zebra stripes. ?

I honestly don’t know what he is as a player.

So tell me !

What he is he better at than Crouch?
What can he match Crouch for?
What is he lacking?

Same for Ross! And the rest.

What specifically does he bring?

(Please don’t say grunt, muscle, kick ass hunger and all that. Of course we love that, but it ain’t ball winning and disposal skill)

[Sainter_Dad]

Tom Campbell's first 9 games at the Dogs were losses.

His first 8 games at North were losses.

Since Round 14, 2017, he's played in one win.

He's due.

Or he is a f@rking Jinx ....

A man is on his deathbed. As he lies sick on the bed, he calls his wife over to him.

"Sarah... Sarah. We have been married for 26 years... Isn't that right Sarah?"

"Of course John. We have," Sarah replies.

"When I was hit by the truck when we first started dating," John says, "You were there for me, were you not?"

"I never left your side in the hospital, John." Sarah replied.

"When our house burned down after we moved in together," John muttered, "We worked together to build a new one, did we not?"

"We did. We didn't rest for days." Sarah comforted him.

"And now, on my deathbed, you are with me yet again..."

"I am, John." Sarah replied.

"I'm starting to think you are a jinx, Sarah."

[saynta]

Mmm… I’d have preferred Lienert stay

Thought it was time for Windy to have a rest…

This is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap…….
….were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year…….

Jack Bytel……is a fairly average performer…

….how long will Bytel be given ….is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? ….needs to have shown something before seasons end…

Bytel has had one season basically, or one and a half.

You can’t count those years in rehab and say that they justify anything.

He is where he is.

Probably a handy reserve?

Given the injuries to Hunter and Jones , it is quite telling that he is running around in Zebra stripes. ?

I honestly don’t know what he is as a player.

So tell me !

What he is he better at than Crouch?
What can he match Crouch for?
What is he lacking?

Same for Ross! And the rest.

What specifically does he bring?

(Please don’t say grunt, muscle, kick ass hunger and all that. Of course we love that, but it ain’t ball winning and disposal skill)

Plus not many Sandy games in the past two years. The boy has grown into a man and his time will come. Has great hands.

[CQ SAINT]

Similarly to Crouch and Seb V2., Bytel reads the game really well and can function in the heat of battle. He has one touch possession skill and lightening hands. His peripheral vision and touch and hand/eye coordination is probably better than both the others and IMO he is a better kick on both feet.
The advantage they have is experience and stamina and with those attributes they have had good careers. Bytel could easily be expected to produce the same, but I believe he has greater positional flexibility both forward and back.

[Bernard Shakey]

B
Callum Wilkie Dougal Howard Josh Battle

HB
Ben Paton Daniel McKenzie Jimmy Webster

C
Bradley Hill Sebastian Ross Mason Wood

HF
Brad Crouch Tim Membrey Dan Butler

F
Max King Jade Gresham Jack Higgins

R
Paddy Ryder Jack Steele Jack Sinclair

INT
Ben Long Marcus Windhager Tom Campbell
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera

E
Jarrod Lienert Tom Highmore Ryan Byrnes


Mitch Owens

Jade Gresham at full forward.

They say it's going to be wet and/or slippery.

It’s not going to be wet or slippery. Been dry since Tuesday when I got up here, and will be dry tomorrow night.

[meher baba]

Similarly to Crouch and Seb V2., Bytel reads the game really well and can function in the heat of battle. He has one touch possession skill and lightening hands. His peripheral vision and touch and hand/eye coordination is probably better than both the others and IMO he is a better kick on both feet.
The advantage they have is experience and stamina and with those attributes they have had good careers. Bytel could easily be expected to produce the same, but I believe he has greater positional flexibility both forward and back.

These alleged attributes of Bytel have never been particularly apparent when I’ve watched him play. I’ve tended to find Byrne better value, and the club seems to agree with me.

I accept that he has had injury problems. But, realistically, he seems to have quite a few players between him and a spot in the top team. When Jones comes back then, barring injury, there isn’t a spot for Windhager, Byrne or Owens: all of who are currently higher on the pecking order than Bytel.

I suspect he’ll be off to another club soon. Pity, but not everyone on our list is going to make it.

[Ghost Like]

B
Callum Wilkie Dougal Howard Josh Battle

HB
Ben Paton Daniel McKenzie Jimmy Webster

C
Bradley Hill Sebastian Ross Mason Wood

HF
Brad Crouch Tim Membrey Dan Butler

F
Max King Jade Gresham Jack Higgins

R
Paddy Ryder Jack Steele Jack Sinclair

INT
Ben Long Marcus Windhager Tom Campbell
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera

E
Jarrod Lienert Tom Highmore Ryan Byrnes


Mitch Owens

Jade Gresham at full forward.

They say it's going to be wet and/or slippery.

It’s not going to be wet or slippery. Been dry since Tuesday when I got up here, and will be dry tomorrow night.

Saintsational needs a new weather presenter then, it was hinted Noah would be our captain come Saturday night.

[CQ SAINT]

Similarly to Crouch and Seb V2., Bytel reads the game really well and can function in the heat of battle. He has one touch possession skill and lightening hands. His peripheral vision and touch and hand/eye coordination is probably better than both the others and IMO he is a better kick on both feet.
The advantage they have is experience and stamina and with those attributes they have had good careers. Bytel could easily be expected to produce the same, but I believe he has greater positional flexibility both forward and back.

These alleged attributes of Bytel have never been particularly apparent when I’ve watched him play. I’ve tended to find Byrne better value, and the club seems to agree with me.

I accept that he has had injury problems. But, realistically, he seems to have quite a few players between him and a spot in the top team. When Jones comes back then, barring injury, there isn’t a spot for Windhager, Byrne or Owens: all of who are currently higher on the pecking order than Bytel.

I suspect he’ll be off to another club soon. Pity, but not everyone on our list is going to make it.

Time will tell MB.

He was an outstanding junior. He has shown glimpses since injury, he can play.
He only has a small sample post injury to look at but its there plan to see.
2021 being his best and he did ok but again was stunted by injury. He was on the radar, ahead off Dunstan.
Comparing him with Byrnes is fair, bit compare the fitness and availability too. They are also very different in size and attributes.
Yes a number of people recruited while he has recovered and others last year are getting a crack. That's how it works. His stake on positions is small, he is an inside mid.
But, take a look at his junior highlights and you will see injury and niggles are holding him back.

https://www.saints.com.au/video/868847/ ... in-traffic



https://www.saints.com.au/video/868847/ ... in-traffic

He needs a full year of development. We need to play finals this year.

[skeptic]

Similarly to Crouch and Seb V2., Bytel reads the game really well and can function in the heat of battle. He has one touch possession skill and lightening hands. His peripheral vision and touch and hand/eye coordination is probably better than both the others and IMO he is a better kick on both feet.
The advantage they have is experience and stamina and with those attributes they have had good careers. Bytel could easily be expected to produce the same, but I believe he has greater positional flexibility both forward and back.

These alleged attributes of Bytel have never been particularly apparent when I’ve watched him play. I’ve tended to find Byrne better value, and the club seems to agree with me.

I accept that he has had injury problems. But, realistically, he seems to have quite a few players between him and a spot in the top team. When Jones comes back then, barring injury, there isn’t a spot for Windhager, Byrne or Owens: all of who are currently higher on the pecking order than Bytel.

I suspect he’ll be off to another club soon. Pity, but not everyone on our list is going to make it.

Interesting how people see things differently

If you look at Bytel’s better performances... high teens possessions, 6-7 tackles and the odd goal
Again has been inconsistent... but Bytel’s better performances have been head and shoulders above what the other 3 have produced to date.

[CQ SAINT]

https://www.saints.com.au/video/256086/ ... highlights

Pre injury Bytel, in his age group was a beast and the skills go well beyond inside plodder.