Do we need to talk about Cooper?

[sunsaint]

I hope he still makes it, I think Ratten loves the small forwards so much that he overlooks the value of tall leading forwards.

Membrey, King and Sharman could all play in that forward line.

I think banger hit the nail on the head there with the love for small forwards
The game is so elagantly simple when you win the corridor and have a big forward leading directly at you
Is that too much like bruise free football?

[shanegrambeau]

Looked fine at the end of last season, played very well in the seniors and kicked goals, and even got votes- obviously not an important factor going into a new season down at the Saints. Clearly one of those natural talents who wont necessarily do much at VFL level but can make an impact in the real stuff. The longer they leave him at Sandy, the more it will hinder to his development. I was more than surprised that he didn't get a game on Round 1.

I agree.

He didn’t just fluke it late last season.

Something else must be up.

Attitude? Player relations?

He’s still better than Hayes and a few others.
(Not knocking Hayes)

Caveat
He has lost something.

But he has the talent.

I don’t think Sandy is gonna make home any more ‘honest’ or whatever it is. Could be wrong of course. Just my opinion.

[Yorkeys]

Must be hard being a key forward in a team that has Max.

Might play him rather than Butler against Melbourne and Geelong to counter their several tall defenders that work as a pack of dogs.

Maybe.

[saintsRrising]

Having joined us mid-season, Sharman has not even been at the Saints for a year yet.

[Trev from the Bush]

Spencer White MK2.

Pinched my line. Sharman is a pretty good player but not an automatic pick at this stage. He's still learning the craft of being an AFL-quality forward.

Spencer came to St Kilda when we were screaming for a 'Great White Hope'

Hawthorn (in their prime) developed their players at Box Hill playing the Hawthorn way - then introduced them to the big league at the feet of champions - not took a skinny little (or slightly overweight slightly small forward) kid and say - here you go play #1 in your position

St Kilda'ing someone is throwing them in the deep end as a kid playing against men and expecting them to swim straight away

Roo was an exception
Thankfully King is too (despite our best efforts)

/end rant

Rant? That's not a rant! White certainly was not thrown in the deep end, he played plenty of footy at Sandy before he was given a game at St Kilda and he certainly gave us some hope with a couple of good goals during the third quarter of his first game. Problem was he didn't go on with it despite his obvious skill and physical attributes. What became of him? He is only 27.

My point is the weight of expectations put on Cooper Sharman at this early stage of his career are unfair and unrealistic. Yes, the boy can sure play. He looked a natural forward in a team that was down on its luck when he made his presence felt last season. He doesn't have that free ticket to use this year - who goes out to bring him in? But, unlike White, he does have a future with the club and we know what he is capable of.

[shanegrambeau]

Perhaps it is a matter of other players being tired and cooked by Round 16? And therefore Cooper is a relatively better choice at that point? And now the team is super fit and rearing to go (Congrats Saints' fitness team of '22) , and so Cooper falls back.

Cooper's Red is a relatively bad choice for me at 15 bucks a stubby in Nipon. But it is my favorite beer. Cognitive bias at work. Me no understand.

But with the Saints at 4-1, who is complaining?

[saintsRrising]

Competition....

While the club has had some injuries this season/pre-season it has not been with the players that Cooper is competing against to play except for Ryder:

Key forward: King
Third Tall: Membrey, Wood
Utility tall forward: Hayes
Ruck Forwards: Marshall /Ryder (Only Ryder had missed games)
Small Forwards: Higgins (1 game missed), Butler, Gresham, Long

That is a lot of talent for a young inexperienced player to squeeze past.

TEAM FOOTBALL...

We are mainly what we are this season because our team play has been so good, and our players have worked very hard at team aspects. Cooper still lacks in this and is still quite one dimensional (He is young and new to the club, and so this is not really surprising).

The coaches do not seem to want to play a second "pure" marking forward this year. Higgins while small also is a marking target. Plus our rucks and Membrey, Hayes and Wood also are rotating marking targets.

Wood for example pushes forward to mark, but rans and supports everywhere forward and back and does many of the small team things.

So Cooper needs to grow and evolve as a player. If he wants to get in as a pure marking target he might have to wait till Max misses a game. Even then Ratts clearly has a bias to versatile team players at present.

[SunnyErnie]

I would have Sharman in place of Wood and I think that will happen sooner rather than later. Wood has been good but Sharman is better and our future.

[Scollop]

I don’t get it

D.B.Cooper is a fine new contributor to the Saintsational fan forum so what’s there to talk about it?

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... 1#p1949241

[Templar]

Does he have the hunger to become a champion Saint? Only he can answer that. Let's hope he does.

[Saintmike65]

I was fortunate enough to be there at numerous training sessions the end of last year and this year, still going most weeks.
There were red flags on young Sharman early on.
He was fumbly and seemed to lack confidence, compared to Wood and Hayes, who both trained strongly and looked hungry.
I thought Copper may have turned the corner in the intra club game where he looked lively & dangerous up forward.
This earned him a game against Carlton the week after, where he was barely sighted.
I think he needs to build a bigger tank and improve his work rate, a la Tim Membrey.
Jury is still out on Mason Wood but what he does have is elite running capabilities and is good in the air.
We shouldn’t be putting a line through Cooper yet but he’s a long way off the pace at this stage!

[Impatient Sainter]

I would have Sharman in place of Wood and I think that will happen sooner rather than later. Wood has been good but Sharman is better and our future.

Wood is our best endurance runner who works up and down the ground and has important touches in defence. Mason is not a huge possession gatherer but what he does is critical for team sucess. Cooper is still building a tank hence his short stints playing on a wing in the VFL. He will get there but he is still developing and really is the equivalence of a 1st year recruit. Remember before he was drafted last year he had spent the majority of the season playing SANFL reserves, he needs time.

[older saint]

I actually wonder if it is a bit of Coffield 2020 - had a good season and perhaps eased off a little in pre season and has been caught out, especially at a time when it is clear everyone else has worked harder than before.

I actually think it is not a bad thing longer term as learns there is no easing off at this level and things not given but earned. He will be back but sometimes to go forward 2 steps you need to go back 1 first.

I actually like that players are not being given games for once. Geary, Bytel, Brynes, Cooper, Etc all are either coming off injury or have had others pass them in pre season. Now they must wait their turn and grab the chances when they get it. what it also does it mean the drop off when someone is replaced is not as great and internal competition lifts the standards- something we haven't had for some time.

[Wayne42]

Cooper might now be back in favour after Hayes' injury.

[skeptic]

I’d like to see him take Wood’s spot to be honest - not enough bang for the buck when it matters for my liking

Hopefully Cooper has a good game and forces the question

[Zed]

The door just creaked open for him with Hayes going down, and Wood having another quiet game.

Its now up to him to have a good game v GWS reserves.

[Vortex]

Cooper might now be back in favour after Hayes' injury.

Are we completely out of options for AFL standard players already?

Sheez from what I understand Sharman is so far off the pace.

Jack offered something to our structure and ATTITUDE that is going to be missed more than we realise.

Sharman won't improve us, Jack did.

[Wayne42]

Cooper might now be back in favour after Hayes' injury.

Are we completely out of options for AFL standard players already?

Sheez from what I understand Sharman is so far off the pace.

Jack offered something to our structure and ATTITUDE that is going to be missed more than we realise.

Sharman won't improve us, Jack did.

Sharman improved us last year, he could well do it again, given the opportunity, let's see how he goes today.

[bigcarl]

Cooper might now be back in favour after Hayes' injury.

Are we completely out of options for AFL standard players already?

Sheez from what I understand Sharman is so far off the pace.

Jack offered something to our structure and ATTITUDE that is going to be missed more than we realise.

Sharman won't improve us, Jack did.

Sharman improved us last year, he could well do it again, given the opportunity, let's see how he goes today.

Interesting structural and selection dilemmas.

Hayes going over will offer opportunity for someone, but not sure who.

I think we will just go Ryder/Marshall next week and Hayes might have missed anyway, but what happens when one of Marshall/Ryder inevitably misses?

Campbell? Can ruck, but can he hold down CHF like Hayes?

Sharman? Impressive last season, but seems off the pace so far this season. Possibly not big enough or versatile enough to ruck and play key position.

Heath? Just a kid, but I see he likes a goal. Could he do the Hayes role? Pinch hit in ruck and give structure to forward line? Possibly not physically developed enough at this stage.

Will be interesting to follow the Zebras match today.

[Vortex]

Cooper might now be back in favour after Hayes' injury.

Are we completely out of options for AFL standard players already?

Sheez from what I understand Sharman is so far off the pace.

Jack offered something to our structure and ATTITUDE that is going to be missed more than we realise.

Sharman won't improve us, Jack did.

Sharman improved us last year, he could well do it again, given the opportunity, let's see how he goes today.

I reckon I could have improved the team last year. I'll buy tickets to the Sharman fan club if he can crack into a side sitting 2nd on the ladder and make us better.

[SunnyErnie]

Cooper might now be back in favour after Hayes' injury.

Are we completely out of options for AFL standard players already?

Sheez from what I understand Sharman is so far off the pace.

Jack offered something to our structure and ATTITUDE that is going to be missed more than we realise.

Sharman won't improve us, Jack did.

Sharman improved us last year, he could well do it again, given the opportunity, let's see how he goes today.

I reckon I could have improved the team last year. I'll buy tickets to the Sharman fan club if he can crack into a side sitting 2nd on the ladder and make us better.

We are not actually second. The round is not finished yet.

[Wayne42]

Cooper might now be back in favour after Hayes' injury.

Are we completely out of options for AFL standard players already?

Sheez from what I understand Sharman is so far off the pace.

Jack offered something to our structure and ATTITUDE that is going to be missed more than we realise.

Sharman won't improve us, Jack did.

Sharman improved us last year, he could well do it again, given the opportunity, let's see how he goes today.

I reckon I could have improved the team last year. I'll buy tickets to the Sharman fan club if he can crack into a side sitting 2nd on the ladder and make us better.

Keep the money box handy.

[wally]

I was really impressed last year with his marking and kicking he seemed to find space and pack mark. I don’t think he did much tackling or pressure chasing but my memory could be wrong.
If you look at what Membrey does without the ball for example he looks stuffed but keeps chasing and presenting. I wonder if that is Sharman’s shortfall?

[Vortex]

I was really impressed last year with his marking and kicking he seemed to find space and pack mark. I don’t think he did much tackling or pressure chasing but my memory could be wrong.
If you look at what Membrey does without the ball for example he looks stuffed but keeps chasing and presenting. I wonder if that is Sharman’s shortfall?

If you watch a replay of his 320 minute long career you'll notice he was given lots of space and freedom by the opposition coaches to practice his marking and kicking.

[ace]

Cooper might now be back in favour after Hayes' injury.

Certainly moves Sharman up one place in the line of succession.
But he is not yet a working royal.