Umpiring

[Ghost Like]

Isn't this "chicken or the egg" stuff? What came first, Schneider facetiously clapping an umpire OR a series of incorrect / poor umpire decisions?

I think an umpire clapping a point kicked by Schneider would have been funnier than treating him as persona non grata. Maybe that's just me & in the spirit of the alleged action.

[Mr Magic]

Scollop,
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)

We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

[The Craw]

So what happens if a player throws his arms up at a non decision .... ie a ball up when they think it is holding the ball ... does that me it will be a free kick against ??

[saynta]

Isn't this "chicken or the egg" stuff? What came first, Schneider facetiously clapping an umpire OR a series of incorrect / poor umpire decisions?

I think an umpire clapping a point kicked by Schneider would have been funnier than treating him as persona non grata. Maybe that's just me & in the spirit of the alleged action.

Possible cost us a grannie and really indefensible on the part of the maggot not to pay a blatant free.

[saynta]

Scollop,
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)

We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

Hear, hear, the voice of reason.

[Scollop]

We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?

Is that what this thread was about

Sorry. I stuffed up

[Mr Magic]

Actually that’s what I understood the original op was about.
My apologies for thinking you might be interested in an alternate viewpoint to your own.

[meher baba]

I've always thought it's a far better game when the players simply accept the deisions of the umpires and move on.

Schneider was always a pain in the butt: as were the entire Swans side in the era in which he played there and from whom he learnt his bad habits. The Swans players used to stir up their fans and try to intimidate the umps into awarding frees that were never there.

Yes, the umpires are far from perfect, but players who try to intimidate them will only make things worse. That's why I keep banging on about how I would prefer the umpires to have as distant a relationship with the players as possible: none of the stupid banter and use of nicknames that sometimes gets picked up on the mikes. It should be "black team" and "red team" (or whatever) and the use of the numbers on the players' backs: that's the main reason that the numbers are there FFS!

[The_Dud]

Isn't this "chicken or the egg" stuff? What came first, Schneider facetiously clapping an umpire OR a series of incorrect / poor umpire decisions?

I think an umpire clapping a point kicked by Schneider would have been funnier than treating him as persona non grata. Maybe that's just me & in the spirit of the alleged action.

Possible cost us a grannie and really indefensible on the part of the maggot not to pay a blatant free.

More abuse.

[The_Dud]

Richmond won three premierships while near or at the very bottom of the ‘free kick ladder’.

[IluvHarvey]

AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.

[The_Dud]

AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.

Yep. And I didn’t mind a small part of Eddie’s plan, umpires should be split into different crews / teams. I think it would lead to more accountability and more consistency.

[Sainter_Dad]

Scollop,
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)

We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

Hear, hear, the voice of reason.

What I object to is that there are clear mistakes - but the AFL comes out and says 'Nothing to see here - we got all of our decisions right' Bull-tish

It does not have to be adversarial - just needs to be open to discussion - after the event.
Sunday Football used to have a segment like "What's the decision?" or something like that

[Sainter_Dad]

AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.

Yep. And I didn’t mind a small part of Eddie’s plan, umpires should be split into different crews / teams. I think it would lead to more accountability and more consistency.

I think they are teams of 3 at the moment

PS - Leigh Fisher should NEVER have umpired a single St Kilda game - EVER - the optics are wrong

[CURLY]

Two horrendous calls tonight both resulted in GWS goals.

[Sainter_Dad]

Leigh Fisher should NEVER have umpired a single St Kilda game - EVER - the optics are wrong

[Ghost Like]

Teams??? Crews??? of umpires...to me that's smoke & mirrors. It's a bullsh!t idea that does not address the problem with the game. That problem is the rules & how malleable they are with interpretation and how they are valued in terms of the game's fabric. It is not the umpires, it is not the players, it is the rules and the game's supposed custodians.

[The_Dud]

AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.

Yep. And I didn’t mind a small part of Eddie’s plan, umpires should be split into different crews / teams. I think it would lead to more accountability and more consistency.

I think they are teams of 3 at the moment

PS - Leigh Fisher should NEVER have umpired a single St Kilda game - EVER - the optics are wrong

Do they stay together all season?

[The_Dud]

Teams??? Crews??? of umpires...to me that's smoke & mirrors. It's a bullsh!t idea that does not address the problem with the game. That problem is the rules & how malleable they are with interpretation and how they are valued in terms of the game's fabric. It is not the umpires, it is not the players, it is the rules and the game's supposed custodians.

The rules and the umpires are 2 different issues.

What’s saying you can’t try improve both?

[Ghost Like]

Teams??? Crews??? of umpires...to me that's smoke & mirrors. It's a bullsh!t idea that does not address the problem with the game. That problem is the rules & how malleable they are with interpretation and how they are valued in terms of the game's fabric. It is not the umpires, it is not the players, it is the rules and the game's supposed custodians.

The rules and the umpires are 2 different issues.

What’s saying you can’t try improve both?

No point in improving one without the other. The rules are the key. The other will follow.

[Wayne42]

Players, coaches, commentators and fans need to learn, adapt and accept the new rules re umpire dissent.

The rule is here to stay, time to cope with it.

[Devilhead]

Hopefully the umps refuse to pay them except when properly abused .... just to stick it up Dean Gordon "Cheese" Pritchard's fat arse

[Sainter_Dad]

AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.

Yep. And I didn’t mind a small part of Eddie’s plan, umpires should be split into different crews / teams. I think it would lead to more accountability and more consistency.

I think they are teams of 3 at the moment

PS - Leigh Fisher should NEVER have umpired a single St Kilda game - EVER - the optics are wrong

Do they stay together all season?

I think they do (groups that are often together) this year are:

17 - John Howorth; and
23 - Robert Findlay

2 - Nick Foot;
12 - Andrew Stephens; and
19 - Alex Whetton

20 - Jamie Broadbent; and
26 - Craig Fleer

8 - Brett Rosebury;
14 - Hayden Gavine; and
22 - Nathan Williamson

1 - Chris Donlon; and
31 - Paul Rebeschini

Ray seems to get the pick of games HE wants to do

The others seem to slot into wherever

Source:
https://aflua.com.au/umpire-appointments/

[Mr Magic]

Scollop,
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)

We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

Hear, hear, the voice of reason.

What I object to is that there are clear mistakes - but the AFL comes out and says 'Nothing to see here - we got all of our decisions right' Bull-tish

It does not have to be adversarial - just needs to be open to discussion - after the event.
Sunday Football used to have a segment like "What's the decision?" or something like that

Jimmy Bartel, GWS Board Member, just stated (unprompted) on 3AW that the McKenzie decision was a mistake.
Part of a general discussion about the new rule and its interpretation.

[saynta]

Two horrendous calls tonight both resulted in GWS goals.

Yep. Prior opportunity? What utter bulls***.