Umpiring

[SaintPav]

Ridiculous rule.

It’s impractical and unworkable.

It will be quietly shelved when no one is paying attention.

[Hack]

Umpires and anyone thinking of umpiring just need to harden up. Problem solved. The rules are difficult to interpret given the speed of the game so yes they will continue to make some poor decisions and this won’t ever change.

[Zed]

Heard a good solution today - give the players 2 seconds. This is enough time to wave their hands in the air on frustration , and then gather their cool. No talk back, no pointing at the big screen allowed, but a 2 second grace period to wave your arms would resolve the instinctive response

[Yorkeys]

Gives a small insight into why the Roos asked Scott to go.

Muddled thinking, bloody minded.

AFL have created a problem with his appointment.

Need people that can solve problems with appropriate solutions not make things worse.

[Trixilver]

The no arms thing is a debacle. What's next, the players can't shake their heads? Roll their eyes? Are we banning emotions now?

Get a grip AFL. Why can't they see that they are introducing more grey areas into the game, and that is what makes umpiring this ridiculous game so difficult. It's just going to alienate umpires even more especially among fans.

If they must go all North Korea on the playing field and make showing emotion against the rules, then do it off field. Fine them, suspend them for weeks for raising an eyebrow for all I care, just stop ruining the game for the fans by gifting free goals.

[perfectionist]

The main reason it is hard to get umpires for levels below the AFL is the abuse - not from the players but from the supporters on the sidelines. Unlike the AFL, the abuse can be clearly heard by the umpire, especially when the play is near the boundary. It's worse as the umpires walk off the ground, where there is no protection from abusive supporters at all, who might even threaten violence. In it's extreme, umpires can be physically as well as verbally assaulted. I umpired for a decade and it was this abuse which led me to give it away. The extra bit of money, which I welcomed in the early days, in no way compensated for this downside.

The players could be controlled. In most lower grades there are send off rules, as well as other local rules like 50 metres for swearing or dissent. But, it doesn't affect the supporters. There is no penalty for them. So, the question for the administrators of the game, is how to get the message through to these recalcitrant supporters, who are many, that they must change their behaviour. There is no doubt that watching AFL on TV or attending games has an influence on what people think. All of the threads on this board, including this one, are evidence of that. The approach adopted by the AFL was a zero tolerance approach, to get the message across that no form of dissent is OK.

Time will tell whether it has any effect on the lower grades, but something needed to be done, and in a very demonstrative way. By and large, the current group of players support the move - it's the media and a number of past players who are complaining. But their behaviour is unaffected. And some of the media reporting has been atrocious (what's knew, people ask). Yesterday, in The Age, a single VAFA umpire was quoted regarding his view of the new rule. Hopefully, he is no longer a VAFA umpire. He does not speak for the VAFA, or the general umpiring group. He can have his opinion, but printing one person's view as though it is indicative of the whole group is media perversion.

"There's no show without Punch" was an expression I heard in the 50s, which probably doesn't mean much to people who aren't ancient like me. It refers to the "Punch & Judy" shows which used to be popular at carnivals which featured the two characters, Punch and Judy, as puppets who were always at odds with one another. If one of the characters did not turn up, there would literally be "no show". And so it is with umpires/referees. Games, especially at the élite level, need a level of independent decision making regarding the rules. In games like golf it's behind the scenes. In field games, it's on the field, and in AFL with so many rules and interpretations, it's almost every second of every game. I will normally disagree with two or three decisions in each game when I watch on TV, and react more emotionally if the decisions are against Saints players. So far, none of the decisions have ever been changed because of my reaction.

I support this attempt by the AFL to show to a wider audience, especially at local games, that dissent is not "part of the game" - either on the field or off the field.

[The_Dud]

I was at a junior game of footy a few weeks ago and there was one particular supporter going off his head at players and umpires, abuse and all the usual stuff. The marshal came over to try get him to stop (with what real power?) and he agreed to stop abusing the players but said the marshal couldn't make him stop abusing the umpires as that was 'different'. It continued and we moved shortly after.

You see a few of those same characters around here. They miss the irony that their uneducated abuse is what leads to poorer umpiring standards.

[st.byron]

Great post Perfectionist.
I think it's a good move, banning player dissent.
Already the game is much better with the players just getting on with it. No room for whinging and complaining.
I also umpired juniors up to U18 for a number of years. The abuse was awful. And Perfectionist is right, there was very little protection. Grown men - and women - walking along side me between the ground and the dressing room telling me what a piece of s*** I was. And of course the ongoing abuse whilst the game was going on. I felt physically threatened on occasion. I did it at the time coz I was a young fella who was playing footy on Saturdays so umpiring on Sundays was a good option for a bit of pocket money. But the abuse was pretty bad. Really vitriolic.
There's a huge shortage of umpires at the lower levels so good move by the peak body to ban umpiring dissent.

[Trixilver]

By and large, the current group of players support the move - it's the media and a number of past players who are complaining.

Because the current group are in the system, and when current personnel in the system speak out against the AFL, well, the AFL become 'displeased' with them. From my perspective, it looks like a toxic environment. Current coaches, players always back the AFL no matter what, like it's impossible for them to make any mistakes. Just watch any press conference to see how they awkwardly smile and nod and repeat 'safe' answers to tough questions.

I support this attempt by the AFL to show to a wider audience, especially at local games, that dissent is not "part of the game" - either on the field or off the field.

Correct, if it's not part of the game, then take the punishment off field too. Paying penalties on field not only brings the topic into the game which is then reflected on the scorebored and can change the results, but it ruins the spectacle and puts the focus from fans back on the umpires - ESPECIALLY when they pay these 50s in error which WILL happen eventually if we draw the line at "raising your arms" or having a negative reaction to a decision.

[st.byron]

By and large, the current group of players support the move - it's the media and a number of past players who are complaining.

Because the current group are in the system, and when current personnel in the system speak out against the AFL, well, the AFL become 'displeased' with them. From my perspective, it looks like a toxic environment. Current coaches, players always back the AFL no matter what, like it's impossible for them to make any mistakes. Just watch any press conference to see how they awkwardly smile and nod and repeat 'safe' answers to tough questions.

I support this attempt by the AFL to show to a wider audience, especially at local games, that dissent is not "part of the game" - either on the field or off the field.

Correct, if it's not part of the game, then take the punishment off field too. Paying penalties on field not only brings the topic into the game which is then reflected on the scorebored and can change the results, but it ruins the spectacle and puts the focus from fans back on the umpires - ESPECIALLY when they pay these 50s in error which WILL happen eventually if we draw the line at "raising your arms" or having a negative reaction to a decision.

Yeah I see what you're saying. There has to be consequences though, otherwise the players won't take any notice of the rule.

[Scollop]

By and large, the current group of players support the move - it's the media and a number of past players who are complaining.

Because the current group are in the system, and when current personnel in the system speak out against the AFL, well, the AFL become 'displeased' with them. From my perspective, it looks like a toxic environment. Current coaches, players always back the AFL no matter what, like it's impossible for them to make any mistakes. Just watch any press conference to see how they awkwardly smile and nod and repeat 'safe' answers to tough questions.

That's wrong.

There will always be rule changes and I think most have been for the betterment of the game. Players understand that

Change had to happen. You have idiots and drama queens like Gerard Whately and Mark Robinson and a narcissist like Garry Lyon who thinks that the media are more important than the game itself and then you have senior players and the elders of the game and the mature footballing people are all agreed.

https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/ ... 0438479001

Go to the 9.00 minute mark of the Press Conference for the ANZAC day match between Collingwood and Essendon (video link above). I saw a lead up interview with Scott Pendlebury when he was preparing backstage prior to the Press Conference and he wasn't 'awkwardly smiling' or towing the line at all. He is saying the media and the AFL commentators need to stop being drama queens.

Any player with half a brain understands the bigger picture. If the players want their kids involved in junior footy and if players aren't just selfish and thinking about a solitary game of football or about their own little world, then they aren't doing this because it's being forced upon them.

They're agreeing to it because we need solutions and we need to change behaviours. Everything revolves around the game at the highest level. Every level below that copies what they see on the footy field.

I think there's been a problem in the way players behave towards umpires and it hasn't changed in the last 50 years. The AFL itself was proud of the way our game was different to other codesand the ads promoted and celebrated player dissent!! The 'emotion' and the 'theatre' of players disagreeing with an umpire was used in their marketing.

This is what Garry Lyon thinks... he reckons the 'media' pay Scott's wages... No Garry! It's the public mate. We pay..not you

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/players- ... -c-6512438

“That is the most nonsensical thing I’ve ever heard, blaming the media for the dissent debate that’s going on at the moment.

The media, who pay Pendlebury’s wages, it’s incumbent upon us to be able to commentate and commentate right."

[CURLY]

A new breed of Umpires are the cause for a lot of the abuse and attitude towards umpires. There was a time when an umpire came to the game because they loved the game and enjoyed being allowed to be part of it. Now so many umpires believe they are the most important part of the game and day. They have a win if they report or send of a player they have a win if they've made a controversial call that wins a team a game. They enjoy sinking players at tribunals as its worth gloating about. Lets get back to the old days when everyone was level.

[Scollop]

We're not going to 'get back' to the old days because the sport and the industry are constantly evolving.

Watch Footy Classified from last night.

There are people who will come up with ideas and solutions to problems and there are people who will just whinge and complain

[st.byron]

A new breed of Umpires are the cause for a lot of the abuse and attitude towards umpires. There was a time when an umpire came to the game because they loved the game and enjoyed being allowed to be part of it. Now so many umpires believe they are the most important part of the game and day. They have a win if they report or send of a player they have a win if they've made a controversial call that wins a team a game. They enjoy sinking players at tribunals as its worth gloating about. Lets get back to the old days when everyone was level.

Disagree with this. When I was an ump I loved the game. Played on Saturday, watched the replay Saturday night, umpired Sunday morning, went to the VFA Sunday arvo. I didn't showboat or get puffed up with self importance when I umpired. But I still copped heaps of abuse.
Blaming the umpires for the abuse they cop is part of a never ending cycle of finger pointing.

[CURLY]

A new breed of Umpires are the cause for a lot of the abuse and attitude towards umpires. There was a time when an umpire came to the game because they loved the game and enjoyed being allowed to be part of it. Now so many umpires believe they are the most important part of the game and day. They have a win if they report or send of a player they have a win if they've made a controversial call that wins a team a game. They enjoy sinking players at tribunals as its worth gloating about. Lets get back to the old days when everyone was level.

Disagree with this. When I was an ump I loved the game. Played on Saturday, watched the replay Saturday night, umpired Sunday morning, went to the VFA Sunday arvo. I didn't showboat or get puffed up with self importance when I umpired. But I still copped heaps of abuse.
Blaming the umpires for the abuse they cop is part of a never ending cycle of finger pointing.

Not all as I stated. It's only come in over the last decade or so.

[st.byron]

A new breed of Umpires are the cause for a lot of the abuse and attitude towards umpires. There was a time when an umpire came to the game because they loved the game and enjoyed being allowed to be part of it. Now so many umpires believe they are the most important part of the game and day. They have a win if they report or send of a player they have a win if they've made a controversial call that wins a team a game. They enjoy sinking players at tribunals as its worth gloating about. Lets get back to the old days when everyone was level.

Disagree with this. When I was an ump I loved the game. Played on Saturday, watched the replay Saturday night, umpired Sunday morning, went to the VFA Sunday arvo. I didn't showboat or get puffed up with self importance when I umpired. But I still copped heaps of abuse.
Blaming the umpires for the abuse they cop is part of a never ending cycle of finger pointing.

Not all as I stated. It's only come in over the last decade or so.

Blaming the umps for the abuse they cop is the same as saying they deserve whatever abuse they get. It completely absolves the person doing the abusing of any self responsibility or need for self reflection about their own behaviour. It's all their fault and if they would only change their behaviour everything would be okay. I'm certainly not going to change mine.
And it also removes any possibility that the abuser may be just a teensy weensy tiny winy bit one eyed.

[CURLY]

A new breed of Umpires are the cause for a lot of the abuse and attitude towards umpires. There was a time when an umpire came to the game because they loved the game and enjoyed being allowed to be part of it. Now so many umpires believe they are the most important part of the game and day. They have a win if they report or send of a player they have a win if they've made a controversial call that wins a team a game. They enjoy sinking players at tribunals as its worth gloating about. Lets get back to the old days when everyone was level.

Disagree with this. When I was an ump I loved the game. Played on Saturday, watched the replay Saturday night, umpired Sunday morning, went to the VFA Sunday arvo. I didn't showboat or get puffed up with self importance when I umpired. But I still copped heaps of abuse.
Blaming the umpires for the abuse they cop is part of a never ending cycle of finger pointing.

Not all as I stated. It's only come in over the last decade or so.

Blaming the umps for the abuse they cop is the same as saying they deserve whatever abuse they get. It completely absolves the person doing the abusing of any self responsibility or need for self reflection about their own behaviour. It's all their fault and if they would only change their behaviour everything would be okay. I'm certainly not going to change mine.
And it also removes any possibility that the abuser may be just a teensy weensy tiny winy bit one eyed.

I don't abuse umpire but I certainly used to chat and give them the your joking every so often. Not many players can say they didn't. There has been a mind shift in some umpire over the journey that can't be denied.

[st.byron]

A new breed of Umpires are the cause for a lot of the abuse and attitude towards umpires. There was a time when an umpire came to the game because they loved the game and enjoyed being allowed to be part of it. Now so many umpires believe they are the most important part of the game and day. They have a win if they report or send of a player they have a win if they've made a controversial call that wins a team a game. They enjoy sinking players at tribunals as its worth gloating about. Lets get back to the old days when everyone was level.

Disagree with this. When I was an ump I loved the game. Played on Saturday, watched the replay Saturday night, umpired Sunday morning, went to the VFA Sunday arvo. I didn't showboat or get puffed up with self importance when I umpired. But I still copped heaps of abuse.
Blaming the umpires for the abuse they cop is part of a never ending cycle of finger pointing.

Not all as I stated. It's only come in over the last decade or so.

Blaming the umps for the abuse they cop is the same as saying they deserve whatever abuse they get. It completely absolves the person doing the abusing of any self responsibility or need for self reflection about their own behaviour. It's all their fault and if they would only change their behaviour everything would be okay. I'm certainly not going to change mine.
And it also removes any possibility that the abuser may be just a teensy weensy tiny winy bit one eyed.

I don't abuse umpire but I certainly used to chat and give them the your joking every so often. Not many players can say they didn't. There has been a mind shift in some umpire over the journey that can't be denied.

Clarify for me Curly if you would.
Are you saying that you re not abusive towards umpires and also that you're not one eyed?
And that your approach to AFL umpiring is balanced and fair?

[CURLY]

A new breed of Umpires are the cause for a lot of the abuse and attitude towards umpires. There was a time when an umpire came to the game because they loved the game and enjoyed being allowed to be part of it. Now so many umpires believe they are the most important part of the game and day. They have a win if they report or send of a player they have a win if they've made a controversial call that wins a team a game. They enjoy sinking players at tribunals as its worth gloating about. Lets get back to the old days when everyone was level.

Disagree with this. When I was an ump I loved the game. Played on Saturday, watched the replay Saturday night, umpired Sunday morning, went to the VFA Sunday arvo. I didn't showboat or get puffed up with self importance when I umpired. But I still copped heaps of abuse.
Blaming the umpires for the abuse they cop is part of a never ending cycle of finger pointing.

Not all as I stated. It's only come in over the last decade or so.

Blaming the umps for the abuse they cop is the same as saying they deserve whatever abuse they get. It completely absolves the person doing the abusing of any self responsibility or need for self reflection about their own behaviour. It's all their fault and if they would only change their behaviour everything would be okay. I'm certainly not going to change mine.
And it also removes any possibility that the abuser may be just a teensy weensy tiny winy bit one eyed.

I don't abuse umpire but I certainly used to chat and give them the your joking every so often. Not many players can say they didn't. There has been a mind shift in some umpire over the journey that can't be denied.

Clarify for me Curly if you would.
Are you saying that you re not abusive towards umpires and also that you're not one eyed?
And that your approach to AFL umpiring is balanced and fair?

I am 100 per cent umpires at all levels umpire different clubs and different players differently.

[The_Dud]

The abuser blaming their victim for their abusive behavior is about as cliched as it gets.

[CURLY]

The abuser blaming their victim for their abusive behavior is about as cliched as it gets.

Oh poor Dud. I'm merely pointing out a mindset change that has swept across the football world over the last decade or so.

[saynta]

The abuser blaming their victim for their abusive behavior is about as cliched as it gets.

Oh poor Dud. I'm merely pointing out a mindset change that has swept across the football world over the last decade or so.

That statement from the dud one is about as ridiculous as one could get. Poor decisions, poor umpiring and inconsistencies are the cause of most supporters anguish. Footballers have to put a sock in it now that the facists at AFL Headquarters have spoken but I can't see a change in crowd or mob behaviour anytime soon unless umpiring standards improve.

[CURLY]

The abuser blaming their victim for their abusive behavior is about as cliched as it gets.

Oh poor Dud. I'm merely pointing out a mindset change that has swept across the football world over the last decade or so.

That statement from the dud one is about as ridiculous as one could get. Poor decisions, poor umpiring and inconsistencies are the cause of most supporters anguish. Footballers have to put a sock in it now that the facists at AFL Headquarters have spoken but I can't see a change in crowd or mob behaviour anytime soon unless umpiring standards improve.

Umpiring has always been inconsistent which is fair enough but now there is an attitude that they are above the game. A lot of umpires think they've had a win if they get one up on a player.

[The_Dud]

The abuser blaming their victim for their abusive behavior is about as cliched as it gets.

Oh poor Dud. I'm merely pointing out a mindset change that has swept across the football world over the last decade or so.

That statement from the dud one is about as ridiculous as one could get. Poor decisions, poor umpiring and inconsistencies are the cause of most supporters anguish. Footballers have to put a sock in it now that the facists at AFL Headquarters have spoken but I can't see a change in crowd or mob behaviour anytime soon unless umpiring standards improve.

You couldn't have proven my point any better, thanks fellas.

[st.byron]

A new breed of Umpires are the cause for a lot of the abuse and attitude towards umpires. There was a time when an umpire came to the game because they loved the game and enjoyed being allowed to be part of it. Now so many umpires believe they are the most important part of the game and day. They have a win if they report or send of a player they have a win if they've made a controversial call that wins a team a game. They enjoy sinking players at tribunals as its worth gloating about. Lets get back to the old days when everyone was level.

Disagree with this. When I was an ump I loved the game. Played on Saturday, watched the replay Saturday night, umpired Sunday morning, went to the VFA Sunday arvo. I didn't showboat or get puffed up with self importance when I umpired. But I still copped heaps of abuse.
Blaming the umpires for the abuse they cop is part of a never ending cycle of finger pointing.

Not all as I stated. It's only come in over the last decade or so.

Blaming the umps for the abuse they cop is the same as saying they deserve whatever abuse they get. It completely absolves the person doing the abusing of any self responsibility or need for self reflection about their own behaviour. It's all their fault and if they would only change their behaviour everything would be okay. I'm certainly not going to change mine.
And it also removes any possibility that the abuser may be just a teensy weensy tiny winy bit one eyed.

I don't abuse umpire but I certainly used to chat and give them the your joking every so often. Not many players can say they didn't. There has been a mind shift in some umpire over the journey that can't be denied.

Clarify for me Curly if you would.
Are you saying that you re not abusive towards umpires and also that you're not one eyed?
And that your approach to AFL umpiring is balanced and fair?

I am 100 per cent umpires at all levels umpire different clubs and different players differently.

You didn't answer my questions. I don't understand what your reply means.