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Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Sun 17 Apr 2022 2:26pm
Its a good problem to have, but it does raise the irony that Ryder was pushed forward most of his career as the 2nd ruck because he was a capable forward. Now the same is happening to Marshall. At least we can be comfortable in the knowledge that Marshall can step up to the No 1 ruckman when required. Even Hayes does ok given the height disparities.
Heath rucked against another 19/20 year old yesterday, but showed he may develop quicker than expected.
Glad to read that Heath did well yesterday, I firmly believe he will become St Kilda's next #1 ruckman.
The discussion over whether or not RoMa is or is not good up forward is pointless, I haven't seen the stats of how much time he has played in attack but I doubt it's all that much more than the time he plays around the ground. Marshall is very good whatever role he is asked to play, a genuine all-rounder.
I thought yesterday Jack Hayes also did quite well in various roles - pity that he's third in line when both Ryder and Marshall are available, how long is it since St Kilda had such a strong backuo ruckman??
"Any candidate for political office, once chosen for leadership, must have the will to take the wheel of a very powerful car, tasked from time to time to make a fast journey down a narrow, precipitous mountain road – and be highly skilled at driving. Otherwise, he is disqualified from the company of competent leaders."
John Carroll, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at La Trobe University.
He’s been plagued with foot issues for a while now and I’ve read a few observations here and there that he’s still nursing it.
I think what’s clear to me is that he’s complemented extremely well by players that are better at the hit outs aka Ryder as his leap is pbly not his strength.
Heath is the first developing ruck outside of Roma we’ve had in 10 years that isn’t playing seniors but has gun written all over him. I don’t have a strong impression beyond what I read but I think the 2 are both similar types which is a challenge but regardless… nice to have some depth.
Hayes on the other hand…
What’s not to love. He’s a 4 game player that we’re already talking about as a senior player. Love him
I’m not too interested where Marshall plays his best footy, I’m more concerned with where he most benefits the team. Right now, that’s up fwd when Ryder is available. Ryder can compete with every ruckman, including Gawn and Nic Nat at the crucial centre bounces. Gives our mids a fighting chance
I’m not too interested where Marshall plays his best footy, I’m more concerned with where he most benefits the team. Right now, that’s up fwd when Ryder is available. Ryder can compete with every ruckman, including Gawn and Nic Nat at the crucial centre bounces. Gives our mids a fighting chance
B.M wrote: ↑Sat 16 Apr 2022 6:07pm
Why are we better with both?
As good as Ryder is as a tap ruckman, there’s an argument for a Hayes/ Marshall combo, given Hayes is a great foil for King and Membrey up forward and gives his all pinch hitting in the ruck.
Short memories from some. Ten minutes ago Marshall was the spiritual leader of the team. I am certain that influence still pervades. Slower start this year but still so good.
Not "Simon Templar". He was here first. Please change my username to Bumstead and if possible make me one of those very large sandwiches, thanks!
B.M wrote: ↑Tue 19 Apr 2022 8:23am
Where he plays his best footy… wouldn’t that benefit the team the most.
Absolutely not! Not if his preferred position someone else can do it better. The primary reason for a ruckman is to win or compete in the RUCK, not get kicks around the ground. Ryder’s last game was sensational. Can’t believe we’re even having this conversation tbh.
Marshall is an amazing weapon but the very best rucks jump all over him. Luckily not one of the very best rucks plays for GWS
Marshall's best spot is roaming around the ground as the ruckman. His actual ruckwork I would say isn't anything great, Ryder is far superior in that aspect which is why they complement eachother so well.
Ryder is also a deceptively good forward IMO.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
Winning ruck contests is the most overrated stat in footy, everyone knows that.
Winning at stoppage is far more important. Even that is not necessarily the be all and end all… both Hawthorn and Richmond won 3 grand finals with being good stoppage teams, both had good structures behind the ball and punished teams on turnover - Richmond by their manic forward handball - Hawthorn with their foot skills in a possession game.
B.M wrote: ↑Tue 19 Apr 2022 7:29pm
Isn’t Witts one of the best ruckmen in the comp?
A 209cm giant
Marshall gave him a bath
Winning ruck contests is the most overrated stat in footy, everyone knows that.
Winning at stoppage is far more important. Even that is not necessarily the be all and end all… both Hawthorn and Richmond won 3 grand finals with being good stoppage teams, both had good structures behind the ball and punished teams on turnover - Richmond by their manic forward handball - Hawthorn with their foot skills in a possession game.
More than 1 way to skin a cat though
Fair point and I’m not disagreeing. However if you have the resources, you should use them I think. When Ryder plays the opposition doesn’t smash us out of the middle like pies RD 1.
Certainly I’m a massive Marshall fan for what he brings to the team and you’re right in that he beat Witts ( not sure gave him a bath)
I’m scarred from previous years when our mids literally stood by as opposing mids walked it out of centre clearances, which to me are the most important clearances in the game. It’s more open and you’re more likely to score
BM is correct in that Marshall is not a great forward, but its what his presence creates in the F50 is the clincher. He takes the 2nd tall defender, takes pressure off King & Membrey, rarely gets out marked and brings the ball to the ground. This obviously assists our small forwards and others get scoring opportunities.
Would we like Marshall to start clunking some marks defenitely, but he is another who is still finding form after battling the foot injury for 2021. I dont think he is ever going to be a Peter Everitt/Paul Salmon type ruck forward but his efforts that create for others is his biggest asset. Then when he plays with Ryder they are the best 1-2 ruckman in the comp.
I'm still quite confident that our winning % is better with Ryder & Marshall as #1 & #2.
I am also quite confident that with a minute to go, scores level, centre bounce with the 6/6/6, St Kilda would prefer Ryder in the centre & Marshall in our F50.
I also remember Richmond going with two large rucks when they won their last two flags - some thought that was dinosaur type football & passè, they did a number on the single big guy & the makeshift athletic ruckmen.
West Coast double teamed Grundy, they needed to.
Melbourne enjoyed a good finals series with Gawn and Jackson.
