Paton v McKenzie

[saintsRrising]

Paton - 20yo, 186cm, 77 kg (Pick #46, 2017 National Draft) - avg 14.71 touches.
McKenzie - 23yo, 184cm, Weight 78 kg (Pick #22, 2014 National Draft) - avg 12.31 touches.

Remarkably similar players - reliable, mid-sized half-back flankers without any particularly notable skills or physical assets, but who would be dominant VFL players because of their reliability.

I struggle to find a place for both of them in our best 22 going forward, not least because they are so similar, and Nick Coffield will probably get opportunities in the coming year.

McKenzie has grabbed a three-year deal earlier this season, so he's safe in his career for a while. But is there a position for him if Paton keeps his place?

While they have overlap, I see them as quite different.

Paton is the better lockdown defender, and more highly skilled of the two. Though is still very capable with his offensive play. You can put him on the oppositions best small forward. At only 39 games he is still developing, and has potetial to grow into other roles.

McKenzie is the better overall athlete and is harder at the contest. Currently can play wing, or hb. I would not put him on the oppositions best small forward in a shut down role when I have Paton or Webster.

McKenzie may well end up competing with tis year with Hill, Billings, Wood for a slot in the team. He will not displace Sinclair. And players like Lienert and Highmore have emerged as well as the not available Coffield.

[saynta]

Paton is playing in the backline, while McKenzie is up on the wing.

We are winning games because, well, our bottom six is no longer a bottom six.

We have a very even team with everyone competing and contributing.

And I am loving it.

[older saint]

I have Paton over Geary in my best 22 and Mckenzie in best 26. I am just some mug in the stand and no team ever has best 22 available .

Indeed, both have probably squeezed Geary out, who probably should have retired at the end of last year in any event.

The combination of these two (and Sinclair) has really softened the blow of missing Coffield (albeit McKenzie isn't playing as a defender any more), who now faces a battle to work his way back in next year.

Even Clark isn't a walk in player when he's fit again. Billings probably is, but I think Ben Long is showing some very small glimpses of the player he could grow into (I've written him off before, but I can't deny that he brings something unique) if he applied himself more consistently.

Getting depth into our list has been a problem for years but it does feel like that might (I stress might - it's very early on in the season) be on the cusp of changing.

To me Clark is a bets 22 as has something we lack silk. Coffield should be too and needs to be or another top 10 pick wasted - and he should be IMO.
Correct about depth need 26-28 players who push for best 22 each week.

Looking at your name clearly glad Stkilda been wining although shroud not get relegated now

[Vortex]

While listening to Lades on SEN this morning, he put DMacs name forward as one of the players who has been a driver of our good performances recently. Seems like the coaches rate DMac extremely highly.

[shanegrambeau]

Nice that Evertronic found his old post. I'm always suspicious of these a vs b posts, but being 2019 and now i was really interested to see how the talk was back then.

Would have thought Paton is far and away a better player but is still perhaps a bit raw after a year out. DMac has really come (back) out of nowhere. A bit like (more so) Webster. Let's say Webby was not a walk-up start and about 24 on the list pre-2021, I'd have thought DMac might have been at least 28+ back then. Both have come back in and better. Whilst the team was in somewhat dire straits with seats to fill, they have more than filled them and come out shining.

[perfectionist]

Simple: Dmac has improved, while Bpat hasn't.

I must admit, I didn't realise, or had forgotten, that Dmac was 22 in the 2014 Draft. Of course, there's another reason why I never want to remind myself of that particular draft.

Daniel now plays like his draft selection, taken first in Round 2. His fitness is good, particularly his strength. Not much he can do about his height. His decision making is good. He skills are consistent with rare, rather than constant, turnovers.

Alas, Ben still plays the same way he did five years ago. Hesitant, unsure, as though he's been out of the room when the game plan is discussed. He can take a nice mark, but then the trouble starts. "Will I kick down the line? No. Perhaps inboard to a Saints player with three opponents on him? Maybe not. Anyone running past? No." By this time, the umpire has called play on and it's a hurried kick down the line just managing to get over the out stretched hands of the opponent now running straight at him. It's De Ja Vu all over again.

To put it another way, DMac now looks like, and plays like, he belongs on the ground. Ben still doesn't. But, he's still young, youth being something that's always nice to have on your side.

[Tommyj]

Bloody hell some of you bloke's are really negative the bloke's just got back from a bloody broken leg wait till after round 12 or are these the ironsteins who said McKenzie was a goner in 2019

[Vortex]

Bloody hell some of you bloke's are really negative the bloke's just got back from a bloody broken leg wait till after round 12 or are these the ironsteins who said McKenzie was a goner in 2019

I have been quite impressed at how well he has slotted straight back into the side. I was thinking he might struggle to get back in early but full credit to him. There's your definition of courage.

[WellardSaint]

Bloody hell some of you bloke's are really negative the bloke's just got back from a bloody broken leg wait till after round 12 or are these the ironsteins who said McKenzie was a goner in 2019

ironsteins

EINSTEINS

[CQ SAINT]

I have Paton over Geary in my best 22 and Mckenzie in best 26. I am just some mug in the stand and no team ever has best 22 available .

Indeed, both have probably squeezed Geary out, who probably should have retired at the end of last year in any event.

The combination of these two (and Sinclair) has really softened the blow of missing Coffield (albeit McKenzie isn't playing as a defender any more), who now faces a battle to work his way back in next year.

Even Clark isn't a walk in player when he's fit again. Billings probably is, but I think Ben Long is showing some very small glimpses of the player he could grow into (I've written him off before, but I can't deny that he brings something unique) if he applied himself more consistently.

Getting depth into our list has been a problem for years but it does feel like that might (I stress might - it's very early on in the season) be on the cusp of changing.

I dont miss Coffield, I wish we could put Clark's brain in Coffield's body. But then again, we have Battle and Webster.

[Lennylegs]

Simple: Dmac has improved, while Bpat hasn't.

I must admit, I didn't realise, or had forgotten, that Dmac was 22 in the 2014 Draft. Of course, there's another reason why I never want to remind myself of that particular draft.

Daniel now plays like his draft selection, taken first in Round 2. His fitness is good, particularly his strength. Not much he can do about his height. His decision making is good. He skills are consistent with rare, rather than constant, turnovers.

Alas, Ben still plays the same way he did five years ago. Hesitant, unsure, as though he's been out of the room when the game plan is discussed. He can take a nice mark, but then the trouble starts. "Will I kick down the line? No. Perhaps inboard to a Saints player with three opponents on him? Maybe not. Anyone running past? No." By this time, the umpire has called play on and it's a hurried kick down the line just managing to get over the out stretched hands of the opponent now running straight at him. It's De Ja Vu all over again.

To put it another way, DMac now looks like, and plays like, he belongs on the ground. Ben still doesn't. But, he's still young, youth being something that's always nice to have on your side.

Couldn't disagree more about Paton. Was in all Australian squad discussions in 2020. Super reliable and steady small backman when he's fully fit. Just ask Geelong how important small backs are. They'd kill to have Paton on their list.

Coming back from a significant leg break is incredibly hard. Some blokes never come back from it. Goose Maguire is a case in point. I've actually been thrilled with Paton's progress. He deserves way more credit than your offering.

[bigcarl]

Very, very impressed with how McKenzie has come on. Gun.

[Winmar]

It's great when players actually make it. Paton showed good signs early on, while DMac took a bit longer to get a consistent run in the side. Paton's done very well to return successfully from a bad injury.

[Trev from the Bush]

Bloody hell some of you bloke's are really negative the bloke's just got back from a bloody broken leg wait till after round 12 or are these the ironsteins who said McKenzie was a goner in 2019

ironsteins

EINSTEINS

The love child of Albert Einstein and Robert T Ironside.

[The Fireman]

i think we are very lucky atm with choice

[Ghost Like]

This is a great "bump"!

DMac has been the sporn of the Devilchild (a.k.a. Richo) for so long & has blossomed.

Paton was always a ripping pick (sorry perfectionist, the hate cannot be justified), 2020 proved that & 2021 proved how much he was missed & 2022 is proof of his courage & value.

Let both continue upwards, in sync with the Club's fortunes.

[Ghost Like]

Apologies perfectionist, hate is the wrong word, observatoons / analysis are better descriptions.

[WellardSaint]

Someone mentioned Matt Maguire not being the same after his broken leg.
Dean Greig lost his leg a while after it broke.
IIRC. Maybe complications?

[Lennylegs]

Very, very impressed with how McKenzie has come on. Gun.

Yeah, I reckon this thread is more an appreciation of McKenzie's improvement. God he works hard. Absolutely tireless. Exactly what we need.

I reckon Perfectionist's comparison is an interesting discussion either way. Development is so important, something we really lacked under Richo. Let's hope we're seeing more of it.

[Scollop]

Chicken v Pork

Depends on the cut really and sometimes you need to have a product that is free to roam and run in the paddock

If your chook has been stuck in the barn with a broken drumstick or your pig is having some lower hoof issues it’s not ideal

I like all meat so for me it’s good to have both

[Zed]

McKenzie blossomed when we played him in the position he played as a junior - a running wing.
Paton’s 2020 was outstanding. He has been a bit inconsistent this year, but having a year out with a broken leg you can forgive a few inconsistencies. I expect his back half of the year will be more solid.

[CQ SAINT]

Paton is consistent, he had a low possession and impact game against Richmond but Richmond have dangerous smalls.
Paton is one of the few who understand his role and plays as a shut-down defender and also picks up a good amount of uncontested possessions and also marks.
His work rate is excellent and putting him on the same fringe that McKenzie has been in our best 22 is just an underestimation of his contribution, so far.
Mackenzie is in great form, has a completely different running role and should, can and is currently in a position to have much more impact and be much more damaging.
Hopefully both stay healthy and pick up he's of finals experience in the next 5 years.
Looking back now, is absolutely pointless and completely counter-intuitive.
The coaches and recruiters making the calls have planned this, the penny seems to have dropped for the players but supporters may not catch on til August.

[saynta]

Someone mentioned Matt Maguire not being the same after his broken leg.
Dean Greig lost his leg a while after it broke.
IIRC. Maybe complications?

"Dean Greig
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Dean Greig (born 31 October 1968) is a former Australian rules footballer in the Australian Football League.

Greig played under 19s football for Hawthorn in the Victorian Football League (VFL) during the 1980s, captaining the team and winning its best and fairest award in 1985; despite this, Hawthorn did not wish to retain him, and it released him at the end of 1985. He trialled a pre-season at Collingwood, but was also not recruited to its senior list.[1]

In 1990, Greig played for the ailing Camberwell Football Club in the Victorian Football Association. He polled ten J. J. Liston Trophy votes in only nine games, and Camberwell coach Gary Brice described Grieg's performances as the sole shining light in a winless season which turned out to be the club's last in the VFA.[1]

Greig was subsequently recruited to the Australian Football League (to which the VFL had changed its name in 1990) by the St Kilda Football Club in 1991. On debut in Round 21, 1991, at nearly 23 years of age, he compiled a league record 39 disposals (23 kicks, 16 handballs) against Carlton, the VFL/AFL record for most ever disposals on debut.[2]

A strongly built midfielder, he didn't progress as expected, nevertheless managed some fine games with the St Kilda and was noted for his creative handball.

In August 2001, whilst playing for Scoresby Football Club in the Eastern Football League (Australia), he suffered a broken tibia and fibula and due to the onset of compartment syndrome and infection, had his lower leg amputated.[3]"

Sad, Great footballer though.

[evertonfc]

—BUMP for mid-June 2022—

We missed McKenzie’s work rate and hardness so much vs Essendon.

Think Paton has dropped off since I praised him earlier this year. Would prefer Highmore in there at the moment.

[Yorkeys]

Was Paton off for an unusually long time early-ish last night - coach not happy? Really like him as a player. Have wondered if he could be tried as a mid with Highmore going back.

Have recently wondered about NWM v Connolly. Connolly is full bore every contest