Crystal Ball on Billings

[bangaulegend]

Didn't get a chance to watch the game today so did Jack play & if so how did he go ?

[WellardSaint]

Ironic how JB was childhood mates with Sincs, told AR about drafting Sincs cos he was a good sort, and it looks like Sincs has blossomed while JB goes backwards.
Yes, injured last year, but he really hasn't become a dominant, skilled player, not even A- at the moment.
I'd have him as B-

[Ghost Like]

Didn't get a chance to watch the game today so did Jack play & if so how did he go ?

I thought he did well yesterday on limited game time. His hands were very good in close. He pushed hard from HF to help out in defence. Provided a good link coming out of defence and did not waste his kicks. His set shot from 50m was a worry, I'd expect him to easily get the journey. If high HF is his position then kicking goals from 50 is a must.

[bangaulegend]

Didn't get a chance to watch the game today so did Jack play & if so how did he go ?

I thought he did well yesterday on limited game time. His hands were very good in close. He pushed hard from HF to help out in defence. Provided a good link coming out of defence and did not waste his kicks. His set shot from 50m was a worry, I'd expect him to easily get the journey. If high HF is his position then kicking goals from 50 is a must.

Thanks GL sounds like a positive start for JB lets hope he can maintain that sort of effort during the home & away season

[Vortex]

Billings Challenge this season will be to shake his downhill skier reputation.

He looks fantastic when he's on the outside waiting for the extraction and the team have the opposition's measure, but where he needs to improve is when the opposition are getting a run on and taking the game away from us, that's when he seems to go missing. He needs to improve his defensive effort in those moments and be willing to cop a few bruises if the game dictates that style of play.

[Impatient Sainter]

If he can average 1 to 2 goals a game he will have contributed. The issue that the coaches are going to be faced with is Gresham, Billings and Higgins are not quick and struggle to pressure quicker defences - like Carltons yesterday. Teams have worked that out and look to expose us on the turnover. I think thats why Butler & Long are more important than just goals scored, they are actually capable of pressuring defenses.

[Sainternist]

I hope I’m wrong, but at this rate, he’ll go down in history as the Joe Average we chose over Bontempelli.

[Laurie]

Very average player overrated by some saint supporters.
Will never live up too the potential we expected.
As for me i think he is soft as a marshmallow

BOOM BOOM

[saynta]

Facebook Rules,

1. No foul language.

2. No hate speech or bullying.

3. No personal attacks on players.

While No.1 would cause me some grief, it's a pity No. 3 is not in force on this forum.

No AFL player is soft FFS.

[Vortex]

Facebook Rules,

1. No foul language.

2. No hate speech or bullying.

3. No personal attacks on players.

While No.1 would cause me some grief, it's a pity No. 3 is not in force on this forum.

No AFL player is soft FFS.

And what about a rule for wankers and their cringeworthy posts...

[D.B.Cooper]

Personally I cannot believe that Saints supporters think Billings has not met expectation as a #3 pick.
26YO, almost 150 games, good AFL player who is A grade on his day.
He is not a champion, but would get a game in every AFL team and will probably play 250+ AFL games.

The BONT comparison is BS.
What about Trengove & Scully over Martin, every club has them and they're garbage in my humble opinion.
It is not like we ignored the obvious selection of Bont, as we did with Petracca.

If you take a sample size of the top 3 draft picks in the 4 drafts pre & post Billings I think you'll see his selection and performance stand up pretty well.

2009 – Scully, Trengove, Martin
2010 – Swallow, Bennell, Day
2011 – Patton, Coniglio, Tyson
2012 - Whitfield, O’Rourke, Plowman
2013 - Boyd, Kelly, BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Of the 26 other players chosen in that period I'd put the highlighted group ahead of Billings.

He plays a hard position as a high half forward and can be damaging when he's on.
He still has a bit of upside and I think his hardness is also unfairly maligned.

Good AFL player, good selection IMO.
He's no Bont, but either are Boyd or Kelly!
And he's no McCartin over Petracca by any stretch of the imagination.

[Vortex]

Personally I cannot believe that Saints supporters think Billings has not met expectation as a #3 pick.
26YO, almost 150 games, good AFL player who is A grade on his day.
He is not a champion, but would get a game in every AFL team and will probably play 250+ AFL games.

The BONT comparison is BS.
What about Trengove & Scully over Martin, every club has them and they're garbage in my humble opinion.
It is not like we ignored the obvious selection of Bont, as we did with Petracca.

If you take a sample size of the top 3 draft picks in the 4 drafts pre & post Billings I think you'll see his selection and performance stand up pretty well.

2009 – Scully, Trengove, Martin
2010 – Swallow, Bennell, Day
2011 – Patton, Coniglio, Tyson
2012 - Whitfield, O’Rourke, Plowman
2013 - Boyd, Kelly, BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Of the 26 other players chosen in that period I'd put the highlighted group ahead of Billings.

He plays a hard position as a high half forward and can be damaging when he's on.
He still has a bit of upside and I think his hardness is also unfairly maligned.

Good AFL player, good selection IMO.
He's no Bont, but either are Boyd or Kelly!
And he's no McCartin over Petracca by any stretch of the imagination.

"When he's on"

That's his challenge right there.

There was this perception that he was playing ok in the first half of last season but his stats are interesting during that period, especially the games where we put up the white flag.

His challenge is not to pick and choose "when he's on".

He needs to stand up when the game is in the balance, when things aren't rolling down hill smoothly.

[saynta]

Personally I cannot believe that Saints supporters think Billings has not met expectation as a #3 pick.
26YO, almost 150 games, good AFL player who is A grade on his day.
He is not a champion, but would get a game in every AFL team and will probably play 250+ AFL games.

The BONT comparison is BS.
What about Trengove & Scully over Martin, every club has them and they're garbage in my humble opinion.
It is not like we ignored the obvious selection of Bont, as we did with Petracca.

If you take a sample size of the top 3 draft picks in the 4 drafts pre & post Billings I think you'll see his selection and performance stand up pretty well.

2009 – Scully, Trengove, Martin
2010 – Swallow, Bennell, Day
2011 – Patton, Coniglio, Tyson
2012 - Whitfield, O’Rourke, Plowman
2013 - Boyd, Kelly, BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Of the 26 other players chosen in that period I'd put the highlighted group ahead of Billings.

He plays a hard position as a high half forward and can be damaging when he's on.
He still has a bit of upside and I think his hardness is also unfairly maligned.

Good AFL player, good selection IMO.
He's no Bont, but either are Boyd or Kelly!
And he's no McCartin over Petracca by any stretch of the imagination.

Great post mate. Pleased to find someone with a bit of football nous posting here for a change

[shanegrambeau]

Personally I cannot believe that Saints supporters think Billings has not met expectation as a #3 pick.
26YO, almost 150 games, good AFL player who is A grade on his day.
He is not a champion, but would get a game in every AFL team and will probably play 250+ AFL games.

The BONT comparison is BS.
What about Trengove & Scully over Martin, every club has them and they're garbage in my humble opinion.
It is not like we ignored the obvious selection of Bont, as we did with Petracca.

If you take a sample size of the top 3 draft picks in the 4 drafts pre & post Billings I think you'll see his selection and performance stand up pretty well.

2009 – Scully, Trengove, Martin
2010 – Swallow, Bennell, Day
2011 – Patton, Coniglio, Tyson
2012 - Whitfield, O’Rourke, Plowman
2013 - Boyd, Kelly, BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Of the 26 other players chosen in that period I'd put the highlighted group ahead of Billings.

He plays a hard position as a high half forward and can be damaging when he's on.
He still has a bit of upside and I think his hardness is also unfairly maligned.

Good AFL player, good selection IMO.
He's no Bont, but either are Boyd or Kelly!
And he's no McCartin over Petracca by any stretch of the imagination.

How many of those non-highlighted players are still playing, on big money like Billings? not knocking him, I am a fan, just curious though.

Let's look at that list again, taking out the gonskies.

2009 – Martin
2010 – Swallow, Day
2011 –
2012 - Whitfield, Plowman
2013 - BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Then read that MOngral Punt review of our trash against Carlton lastr year, especially in light of our discussion about Ratts and our average midfield

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2 ... -released/

I think it's a brilliant piece, scathing and insightful..regardless of my disagreements/contentions

[D.B.Cooper]

Personally I cannot believe that Saints supporters think Billings has not met expectation as a #3 pick.
26YO, almost 150 games, good AFL player who is A grade on his day.
He is not a champion, but would get a game in every AFL team and will probably play 250+ AFL games.

The BONT comparison is BS.
What about Trengove & Scully over Martin, every club has them and they're garbage in my humble opinion.
It is not like we ignored the obvious selection of Bont, as we did with Petracca.

If you take a sample size of the top 3 draft picks in the 4 drafts pre & post Billings I think you'll see his selection and performance stand up pretty well.

2009 – Scully, Trengove, Martin
2010 – Swallow, Bennell, Day
2011 – Patton, Coniglio, Tyson
2012 - Whitfield, O’Rourke, Plowman
2013 - Boyd, Kelly, BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Of the 26 other players chosen in that period I'd put the highlighted group ahead of Billings.

He plays a hard position as a high half forward and can be damaging when he's on.
He still has a bit of upside and I think his hardness is also unfairly maligned.

Good AFL player, good selection IMO.
He's no Bont, but either are Boyd or Kelly!
And he's no McCartin over Petracca by any stretch of the imagination.

How many of those non-highlighted players are still playing, on big money like Billings? not knocking him, I am a fan, just curious though.

Let's look at that list again, taking out the gonskies.

2009 – Martin
2010 – Swallow, Day
2011 –
2012 - Whitfield, Plowman
2013 - BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Then read that MOngral Punt review of our trash against Carlton lastr year, especially in light of our discussion about Ratts and our average midfield

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2 ... -released/

I think it's a brilliant piece, scathing and insightful..regardless of my disagreements/contentions

Thanks for the response Shane, I'm not really sure what you are stating though.

The players referred as "gonski' in my opinion backs up that Billings has been a successful pick as you point out many of those top #3 picks are no longer in the game.

I have no idea about Billings remuneration, but if I was a betting man I'd wager it was less than Hannebery & Hill are paid and he is worth far more than both to the Saints.

The saints have often been woeful, an I have never drunk the coolade or hero worshiped the club, but I can't agree that a biased post on mongrel punt that suggests Walsh is the best midfielder in the game and pumps up Silvagni, while effectively bagging King (when he had a bad groin and had kicked 3 in a quarter against AA backman Weitering) is brilliant & insightful.

[D.B.Cooper]

"When he's on"

That's his challenge right there.

There was this perception that he was playing ok in the first half of last season but his stats are interesting during that period, especially the games where we put up the white flag.

His challenge is not to pick and choose "when he's on".

He needs to stand up when the game is in the balance, when things aren't rolling down hill smoothly.

Vortex, I read and please correct me if I am wrong, that you are effectively stating that Billings is a down hill skier who only tries when things go his way, such as he "picks & chooses".

Can you give examples of when he has given up when the game is in the balance or when he has chosen not to have a crack or try?
I'm not talking a bad game, I ask when has he thrown in the towel and not had a crack.

Specific games and incidents within matches that you can refer would be useful to support this assessment.

[Vortex]

"When he's on"

That's his challenge right there.

There was this perception that he was playing ok in the first half of last season but his stats are interesting during that period, especially the games where we put up the white flag.

His challenge is not to pick and choose "when he's on".

He needs to stand up when the game is in the balance, when things aren't rolling down hill smoothly.

Vortex, I read and please correct me if I am wrong, that you are effectively stating that Billings is a down hill skier who only tries when things go his way, such as he "picks & chooses".

Can you give examples of when he has given up when the game is in the balance or when he has chosen not to have a crack or try?
I'm not talking a bad game, I ask when has he thrown in the towel and not had a crack.

Specific games and incidents within matches that you can refer would be useful to support this assessment.

2020, R13 v Lions, R17 v Eagles, lose by 2 and 5 points.

Win those 2 and the double chance is assured.

Billings made me very upset in those two games.

Let me know if you want more specifics than a vague recollection of my emotions after a close loss in an important game.

[B.M]

The reason why it’s a vague recollection is because it’s folly

Can tell you with certainty
Billings has had average games, even poor ones (like most AFL players)

But would never have given up, not tried or shirked!!!

That’s rubbish

He’s actually quite courageous

He’s not Aaron Hamill - clearly
That’s not his role

He’s a HFF/winger and always has been! That’s what we recruited, if there’s an issue with that, it’s a recruiting error.

Having said that - he was the CLEAR choice at pick 3

In hindsight NO

But at the time he was the consensus

[D.B.Cooper]

2020, R13 v Lions, R17 v Eagles, lose by 2 and 5 points.

Win those 2 and the double chance is assured.

Billings made me very upset in those two games.

Let me know if you want more specifics than a vague recollection of my emotions after a close loss in an important game.

And I'm sure one of his greatest career regrets is upsetting you

I just disagree with you.

He is not Lenny Hayes but he does not shirk the contest or chose to play only when the going is easy IMO.

[Vortex]

The reason why it’s a vague recollection is because it’s folly

Can tell you with certainty
Billings has had average games, even poor ones (like most AFL players)

But would never have given up, not tried or shirked!!!

That’s rubbish

He’s actually quite courageous

He’s not Aaron Hamill - clearly
That’s not his role

He’s a HFF/winger and always has been! That’s what we recruited, if there’s an issue with that, it’s a recruiting error.

Having said that - he was the CLEAR choice at pick 3

In hindsight NO

But at the time he was the consensus

The stats for his poor games seem to suggest he goes missing in games where a little bit of extra output could be the difference between winning and losing.

Should a HFF/ winger tackle and provide defensive effort?

[saintsRrising]

Billings is a good player. He is however not flashy, or game breaking in style. He gets the job done, and is an accumulator. Often when you review the game stats you are surprised with his numbers as they are normally always higher than you think. His only real flaw for mine is that he should ice more set shot goals than he does.

People who rate him low are often doing it more based on the player drafted after him, than on Billings own impact.

If you redid the draft now Billings would still be within the top 8 or so players.

[saynta]

Billings is a good player. He is however not flashy, or game breaking in style. He gets the job done, and is an accumulator. Often when you review the game stats you are surprised with his numbers as they are normally always higher than you think. His only real flaw for mine is that he should ice more set shot goals that he does.

People who rate him low are often doing it more based on the player drafted after him, than on Billings own impact.

If you redid the draft now Billings would still be within the top 8 or so players.

Good post, as per usual.

[shanegrambeau]

Personally I cannot believe that Saints supporters think Billings has not met expectation as a #3 pick.
26YO, almost 150 games, good AFL player who is A grade on his day.
He is not a champion, but would get a game in every AFL team and will probably play 250+ AFL games.

The BONT comparison is BS.
What about Trengove & Scully over Martin, every club has them and they're garbage in my humble opinion.
It is not like we ignored the obvious selection of Bont, as we did with Petracca.

If you take a sample size of the top 3 draft picks in the 4 drafts pre & post Billings I think you'll see his selection and performance stand up pretty well.

2009 – Scully, Trengove, Martin
2010 – Swallow, Bennell, Day
2011 – Patton, Coniglio, Tyson
2012 - Whitfield, O’Rourke, Plowman
2013 - Boyd, Kelly, BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Of the 26 other players chosen in that period I'd put the highlighted group ahead of Billings.

He plays a hard position as a high half forward and can be damaging when he's on.
He still has a bit of upside and I think his hardness is also unfairly maligned.

Good AFL player, good selection IMO.
He's no Bont, but either are Boyd or Kelly!
And he's no McCartin over Petracca by any stretch of the imagination.

How many of those non-highlighted players are still playing, on big money like Billings? not knocking him, I am a fan, just curious though.

Let's look at that list again, taking out the gonskies.

2009 – Martin
2010 – Swallow, Day
2011 –
2012 - Whitfield, Plowman
2013 - BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Then read that MOngral Punt review of our trash against Carlton lastr year, especially in light of our discussion about Ratts and our average midfield

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2 ... -released/

I think it's a brilliant piece, scathing and insightful..regardless of my disagreements/contentions

Thanks for the response Shane, I'm not really sure what you are stating though.

The players referred as "gonski' in my opinion backs up that Billings has been a successful pick as you point out many of those top #3 picks are no longer in the game.

I have no idea about Billings remuneration, but if I was a betting man I'd wager it was less than Hannebery & Hill are paid and he is worth far more than both to the Saints.

The saints have often been woeful, an I have never drunk the coolade or hero worshiped the club, but I can't agree that a biased post on mongrel punt that suggests Walsh is the best midfielder in the game and pumps up Silvagni, while effectively bagging King (when he had a bad groin and had kicked 3 in a quarter against AA backman Weitering) is brilliant & insightful.

I’m a JB fan, (maybe just) but the point I was making is that JB has been clearly inferior to those highlighted, and the as for those remaining players you didn’t highlight, they haven’t played as many games as Billings combined..they are really skid row.

[shanegrambeau]

Personally I cannot believe that Saints supporters think Billings has not met expectation as a #3 pick.
26YO, almost 150 games, good AFL player who is A grade on his day.
He is not a champion, but would get a game in every AFL team and will probably play 250+ AFL games.

The BONT comparison is BS.
What about Trengove & Scully over Martin, every club has them and they're garbage in my humble opinion.
It is not like we ignored the obvious selection of Bont, as we did with Petracca.

If you take a sample size of the top 3 draft picks in the 4 drafts pre & post Billings I think you'll see his selection and performance stand up pretty well.

2009 – Scully, Trengove, Martin
2010 – Swallow, Bennell, Day
2011 – Patton, Coniglio, Tyson
2012 - Whitfield, O’Rourke, Plowman
2013 - Boyd, Kelly, BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Of the 26 other players chosen in that period I'd put the highlighted group ahead of Billings.

He plays a hard position as a high half forward and can be damaging when he's on.
He still has a bit of upside and I think his hardness is also unfairly maligned.

Good AFL player, good selection IMO.
He's no Bont, but either are Boyd or Kelly!
And he's no McCartin over Petracca by any stretch of the imagination.

How many of those non-highlighted players are still playing, on big money like Billings? not knocking him, I am a fan, just curious though.

Let's look at that list again, taking out the gonskies.

2009 – Martin
2010 – Swallow, Day
2011 –
2012 - Whitfield, Plowman
2013 - BILLINGS
2014 – McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw
2015 – Weitering, Schache, Mills
2016 – McGrath, Taranto, McCluggage
2017 – Raynor, Brayshaw, Dow

Then read that MOngral Punt review of our trash against Carlton lastr year, especially in light of our discussion about Ratts and our average midfield

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2 ... -released/

I think it's a brilliant piece, scathing and insightful..regardless of my disagreements/contentions

Thanks for the response Shane, I'm not really sure what you are stating though.

The players referred as "gonski' in my opinion backs up that Billings has been a successful pick as you point out many of those top #3 picks are no longer in the game.

I have no idea about Billings remuneration, but if I was a betting man I'd wager it was less than Hannebery & Hill are paid and he is worth far more than both to the Saints.

The saints have often been woeful, an I have never drunk the coolade or hero worshiped the club, but I can't agree that a biased post on mongrel punt that suggests Walsh is the best midfielder in the game and pumps up Silvagni, while effectively bagging King (when he had a bad groin and had kicked 3 in a quarter against AA backman Weitering) is brilliant & insightful.

I’m a JB fan, (maybe just) but the point I was making is that JB has been clearly inferior to those highlighted, and the as for those remaining players you didn’t highlight, they haven’t played as many games as Billings combined..they are really skid row.

[B.M]

Inferior to David Swallow?