Wealthy St Kilda figure Gerry Ryan and former coach Grant Thomas endorse Larry Benge to join Saints board

[samuraisaint]

……could be… AA…Marshall, King and Hunter Clark.

At this time last year none of the so called experts thought Melbourne could make the eight let alone win the flag.

Yep, for sure. I thought Ross Lyon would coach Melbourne in 2023.

What makes Melbourne so good it was it a flash in the pan? Leicester City?

Thing is, if we do get sixth, win a final, some will say we ain’t much better than 2020 and it’s two years on, and then those guys are 30ish.

Safe to say we aren’t at all sure of where we are now. Less sure than a year before…so does that mean much? The fact that we don’t know our value on the scale. I think we’ve from a 6th to 10th team to a 4th to 12th..

Anything could happen in ‘22.

Leicester City were handy again this season, not that I follow EPL too closely.

The 'Dogs had a couple of down years, and a couple more disappointing finals appearances since their premiership, but looked around the mark again this season. It did take them five years to get back into the Big Dance though, so it shows you how hard it can be. Melbourne's first GF appearance in 21 years, and only their third in 57 seasons. On past form nobody suspected that.

It wil be a while before Marshall, King and Clark are 30-ish. We need to make finals again next season though, and a win in one of them is a pass mark.

I think we uncovered a few players this year, and got games into the yute which we may not have done had we had a healthy list and made finals again.

The retirement of Jake and Jack L., and Luke leaving has refreshed the list, and given a reasonable run with injury and a friendly fixture we will be a handy side in '22, I think.

[Teflon]

It seems like Bassat has listened to the Gerry and GT view and then in conjuction with his board they have picked their own candidates for board positions.

It also seems like all this GT paranoia is for sweet FA, but don't let it stop ya.

It be also seems Bassat and Board don’t enjoy having guns held to their head
Fair enough
Clever response
They too mustn’t have liked what they saw
Maybe Board stopping GT in his tracks isn’t paranoid...it’s smart business

[Teflon]

I repeat what I said a while ago, both Richmond and Melbourne had their dirty washing aired publicly in past years, and look at what those 2 teams have achieved since then!

I'm no fan of Grant Thomas, far from it, but in this instance I firmly believe he is merely saying what I and many others have been thinking for quite a long time, which is that some things have to change, and remaining complacent is no longer acceptable.

No dramas sancto but I cannot see how airing "dirty washing" as you put it equates to winning a Premiership. The two clubs you use as examples have aired plenty of "dirty washing", some of that causing fractures within that held them back. Include St Kilda in that, we have had numerous airings, yet here we are.

This is the point or conjecture about Thomas's timing, it would have made more sense 4 or 5 years ago. Plus I do not believe the reasoning behind this is because Thomas fears we've become complacent. Again, the quote "one good fight left" is not the quote of a person merely wanting a new Board member is it?

Professional well run clubs don’t need Board ultimatums via the media - that’s never an acceptable way to conduct business
Thomas own language gives him away
My bet?
He ain’t done whingeing yet....will soon come out with
“Board have stopped listening ...”. (cause they don’t agree with him) .....”we can’t accept mediocrity anymore...” “we must have innovation, intent, integrity and a supporting culture..”
Blah blah blah
All sheep will nod and bleat vigorously
Those who’ve seen these corporate platitudes before will know it’s hollow grandstanding by someone after control
We need to stay the course Bassat and Co have set.

[Sanctorum]

I repeat what I said a while ago, both Richmond and Melbourne had their dirty washing aired publicly in past years, and look at what those 2 teams have achieved since then!

I'm no fan of Grant Thomas, far from it, but in this instance I firmly believe he is merely saying what I and many others have been thinking for quite a long time, which is that some things have to change, and remaining complacent is no longer acceptable.

No dramas sancto but I cannot see how airing "dirty washing" as you put it equates to winning a Premiership. The two clubs you use as examples have aired plenty of "dirty washing", some of that causing fractures within that held them back. Include St Kilda in that, we have had numerous airings, yet here we are.

This is the point or conjecture about Thomas's timing, it would have made more sense 4 or 5 years ago. Plus I do not believe the reasoning behind this is because Thomas fears we've become complacent. Again, the quote "one good fight left" is not the quote of a person merely wanting a new Board member is it?

I'm not a mind reader GL but I imagine that when Richardson was sacked and replaced by Ratten in 2019 influential Sainters such as Ryan and Thomas felt, as most of us did, that the team was back on track.

Nor do I pretend to know the reasoning behind this intervention by Ryan and Thomas, other than that the team underperformed in 2021 - maybe it was the drafting of another 3 hacks (Frawley, McKernan, Hunter) on top of Hannebery and Hill, instead of kids, and/or an abysmal record in developing young players.

The "one good fight left" comment by Thomas is just hyperbole to grab attention, that's the way he operates, but I don't really believe it will get to that if the team goes well in 2022. The thing is that someone needed to lob a grenade into the place to stir things along, at least that's the way I see it.

If however 2022 sees a repeat of this season then there will definitely be a "fight" of some sort, and rightly so....

[Devilhead]

....you somehow feel Board upheaval is the tonic?

By any measure, you can hardly call the nomination of one individual to contest a seat on the St Kilda FC Board of Directors an "upheaval".

Since this drama has unfolded in the media (and on this forum), it has got Bassat and Finnis off their backsides to rally support and make the following points:

"We became aware of areas we needed to improve. Those diagnostics said to us we had some more work to do around the how we go about it, as much as what we do. And they were things like standards around our preparation, are we team-first enough? Even just some of our communication. Relationships were really high.

"But other things, when we shone the torch on ourselves, we weren't where we needed to be, and that led to a program of work around bridging the gap, where we honestly thought where we were against the teams competing for flags, year in, year out.

"The non-negotiable now is that we are competitive to the end, that's the ingredient we are missing."

It has also triggered the resignation of Danni Roche and the nomination of Jason Blake to take her place.

We'll never know, but I would be surprised if either Finnis, Lethlean, Bassat and the Board consider the action by Ryan and Thomas, including the latter's media appearances, anywhere near as dramatically or ill-tempered as supporters on this forum.

It really is nothing more than a wake-up call after a poor season and the 55 year premiership drought!

Errrr ..... I am pretty sure the board knew of areas that needed to be fixed well before Thomas went to the media

So we can expect more trades from Lethlean and recruiting of senior players like the Hannebery deal and more mortgaging the future rubber stamped by an incompetent board for any player out there like Brad Hill who has a full belly and wants a nice retirement package

So Lethlaen and co (who were behind these ridiculous trades) are going to be the group that ‘fixes’ things that they have already stuffed up.

Noice

What did Hannebery cost in terms of trade?

Who else was available to spend the money on .....at that time?

Is it impossible to think that the Hannebery trade might have piqued interest in other players considering St Kilda as a destination club?

Did we win Final last year with Hannebery & Hill playing?

What other trades by Gallagher overseen by Leathlean have been useless?

Howard? Ryder? Butler? Jones? Higgins? Crouch (freebie)?

These trades got the ball rolling from a point of stagnation where we were absolute going nowhere due to previous decisions made years before - Bassat & Leathlean had to get things moving and be aggressive and out of nowhere we won a Final last year only to be smashed by injuries and the hardest fixture in the league this year yet this is all part of the learning process for a very young core who are most likely gaining great benefit from having experienced campaigners like Hannebery Hill Ryder around them

If you can't see the blinding obvious then I can't help you

[Ghost Like]

I repeat what I said a while ago, both Richmond and Melbourne had their dirty washing aired publicly in past years, and look at what those 2 teams have achieved since then!

I'm no fan of Grant Thomas, far from it, but in this instance I firmly believe he is merely saying what I and many others have been thinking for quite a long time, which is that some things have to change, and remaining complacent is no longer acceptable.

No dramas sancto but I cannot see how airing "dirty washing" as you put it equates to winning a Premiership. The two clubs you use as examples have aired plenty of "dirty washing", some of that causing fractures within that held them back. Include St Kilda in that, we have had numerous airings, yet here we are.

This is the point or conjecture about Thomas's timing, it would have made more sense 4 or 5 years ago. Plus I do not believe the reasoning behind this is because Thomas fears we've become complacent. Again, the quote "one good fight left" is not the quote of a person merely wanting a new Board member is it?

I'm not a mind reader GL but I imagine that when Richardson was sacked and replaced by Ratten in 2019 influential Sainters such as Ryan and Thomas felt, as most of us did, that the team was back on track.

Nor do I pretend to know the reasoning behind this intervention by Ryan and Thomas, other than that the team underperformed in 2021 - maybe it was the drafting of another 3 hacks (Frawley, McKernan, Hunter) on top of Hannebery and Hill, instead of kids, and/or an abysmal record in developing young players.

The "one good fight left" comment by Thomas is just hyperbole to grab attention, that's the way he operates, but I don't really believe it will get to that if the team goes well in 2022. The thing is that someone needed to lob a grenade into the place to stir things along, at least that's the way I see it.

If however 2022 sees a repeat of this season then there will definitely be a "fight" of some sort, and rightly so....

The "not a mind reader" or "pretending to be" appears to be exactly what you are. The players you mentioned were all after the fact, back up, non future players. Hannebery is the only liability. Hill is fine.

Thomas is a grandstander, it's a win win for him at the moment. Again, why not this outrage 4 to 5 years ago?

[Devilhead]

If we do well next year ....odds on that GT will say that it was due to him speaking up and the Board embracing his vision

Anyone wanna take a guess when we here from him next?

[Scollop]

....you somehow feel Board upheaval is the tonic?

By any measure, you can hardly call the nomination of one individual to contest a seat on the St Kilda FC Board of Directors an "upheaval".

Since this drama has unfolded in the media (and on this forum), it has got Bassat and Finnis off their backsides to rally support and make the following points:

"We became aware of areas we needed to improve. Those diagnostics said to us we had some more work to do around the how we go about it, as much as what we do. And they were things like standards around our preparation, are we team-first enough? Even just some of our communication. Relationships were really high.

"But other things, when we shone the torch on ourselves, we weren't where we needed to be, and that led to a program of work around bridging the gap, where we honestly thought where we were against the teams competing for flags, year in, year out.

"The non-negotiable now is that we are competitive to the end, that's the ingredient we are missing."

It has also triggered the resignation of Danni Roche and the nomination of Jason Blake to take her place.

We'll never know, but I would be surprised if either Finnis, Lethlean, Bassat and the Board consider the action by Ryan and Thomas, including the latter's media appearances, anywhere near as dramatically or ill-tempered as supporters on this forum.

It really is nothing more than a wake-up call after a poor season and the 55 year premiership drought!

Errrr ..... I am pretty sure the board knew of areas that needed to be fixed well before Thomas went to the media

So we can expect more trades from Lethlean and recruiting of senior players like the Hannebery deal and more mortgaging the future rubber stamped by an incompetent board for any player out there like Brad Hill who has a full belly and wants a nice retirement package

So Lethlaen and co (who were behind these ridiculous trades) are going to be the group that ‘fixes’ things that they have already stuffed up.

Noice

What did Hannebery cost in terms of trade?

Who else was available to spend the money on .....at that time?

Is it impossible to think that the Hannebery trade might have piqued interest in other players considering St Kilda as a destination club?

Did we win Final last year with Hannebery & Hill playing?

What other trades by Gallagher overseen by Leathlean have been useless?

Howard? Ryder? Butler? Jones? Higgins? Crouch (freebie)?

These trades got the ball rolling from a point of stagnation where we were absolute going nowhere due to previous decisions made years before - Bassat & Leathlean had to get things moving and be aggressive and out of nowhere we won a Final last year only to be smashed by injuries and the hardest fixture in the league this year yet this is all part of the learning process for a very young core who are most likely gaining great benefit from having experienced campaigners like Hannebery Hill Ryder around them

If you can't see the blinding obvious then I can't help you

Nothing is free. Crouch takes up a spot and he also commands a top end salary relative to others on our list. I'm not convinced that he'll be a premiership player for St Kilda

I commend you for trying to put a positive spin on the Hannebery deal.

We have had some good wins with trades and recruiting, but jees...you'd want to have some good ones when you are turning over the list at the rate we have been over the last 3 years. Hats off to Libba and his team.

The reason we had on field success in 2020 probably had close to zero to do with Lethlean and Finnis. We were fortunate enough to gain the services of Brett Ratten. As far as Matt Finnis is concerned...weird how someone can survive for so long when he's achieved didley squat as far as success on field for the St Kilda football club.

The question remains. Did Lethlean take short cuts or will we see this group do it again in 2022 or 2023?

I reckon one of either Lethlean or Finnis are surplus after the appointment of Ratten.

The next question (which is crucial in determining if this admin is fair dinkum about winning a flag ) is whether the focus for the footy club is again on short term needs (to save people's jobs) or on a plan for the longer term benefit of the football club.

[Devilhead]

Nothing is free. Crouch takes up a spot and he also commands a top end salary relative to others on our list. I'm not convinced that he'll be a premiership player for St Kilda

I commend you for trying to put a positive spin on the Hannebery deal.

The reason we had on field success has nothing to do with Lethlean and Finnis.

We were fortunate enough to gain the services of Brett Ratten. As far as Matt Finnis is concerned...weird how someone can survive for so long when he's achieved didley squat as far as success on field for the St Kilda football club.

The question remains. Did Lethlean take short cuts or will we see this group do it again in 2022 or 2023? I reckon both Lethlean and Finnis are surplus after the appointment of Ratten.

The next question (which is crucial in determining if this admin is fair dinkum about winning a flag ) is whether the focus for the footy club is again on short term needs or on a plan for the longer term benefit of the football club.

So.which top end middle aged mid should have we got instead of Crouch that would not have cost us draft picks??

And Lethlean had nothing to.do with the appointment of Ratten as Coach?

From the Age below

Lethlean (General Manager of Football) brought Ratten into the coaching panel to support the since-departed Alan Richardson.

He also appointed James Gallagher as the List Manager and promoted Chris Liberatore to oversee the recruiting portfolio (the structure and resourcing)

Yet according to you .... Lethers had nothing to with making the Finals last year even though he was instrumental in these appointments??

As far as Finnis achieving diddly squat .... well its pretty clear his remit as CEO is focused primarily on off field success ...... I am not sure if you know but our Club have left Seaford and are now stable back home at a revitalised Moorabbin and we have a brand spanking new state art training facility ..... but hey Finnis has had nothing to do with that and he probably had nothing to with our record membership drive or the new Etihad Stadium deal which is a bit better than the last one

As for Ratten taking over the General Manager of Football position (from Lethlean) and the role of CEO (from Finnis) ...... and coaching ...... well why not ...... I mean if GT can do it and fail anyone can

Lastly the long term or short term ...... I would say we are very very well set up for the long term .... both on and off the field ...... and I would 90 to 95% of supporters would agree with me

So I am not sure what you are smoking but I would advise you to stop

[Scollop]

Nothing is free. Crouch takes up a spot and he also commands a top end salary relative to others on our list. I'm not convinced that he'll be a premiership player for St Kilda

I commend you for trying to put a positive spin on the Hannebery deal.

The reason we had on field success has nothing to do with Lethlean and Finnis.

We were fortunate enough to gain the services of Brett Ratten. As far as Matt Finnis is concerned...weird how someone can survive for so long when he's achieved didley squat as far as success on field for the St Kilda football club.

The question remains. Did Lethlean take short cuts or will we see this group do it again in 2022 or 2023? I reckon both Lethlean and Finnis are surplus after the appointment of Ratten.

The next question (which is crucial in determining if this admin is fair dinkum about winning a flag ) is whether the focus for the footy club is again on short term needs or on a plan for the longer term benefit of the football club.

So.which top end middle aged mid should have we got instead of Crouch that would not have cost us draft picks??

And Lethlean had nothing to.do with the appointment of Ratten as Coach?

From the Age below

Lethlean (General Manager of Football) brought Ratten into the coaching panel to support the since-departed Alan Richardson.

He also appointed James Gallagher as the List Manager and promoted Chris Liberatore to oversee the recruiting portfolio (the structure and resourcing)

Yet according to you .... Lethers had nothing to with making the Finals last year even though he was instrumental in these appointments??

As far as Finnis achieving diddly squat .... well its pretty clear his remit as CEO is focused primarily on off field success ...... I am not sure if you know but our Club have left Seaford and are now stable back home at a revitalised Moorabbin and we have a brand spanking new state art training facility ..... but hey Finnis has had nothing to do with that and he probably had nothing to with our record membership drive or the new Etihad Stadium deal which is a bit better than the last one

As for Ratten taking over the General Manager of Football position (from Lethlean) and the role of CEO (from Finnis) ...... and coaching ...... well why not ...... I mean if GT can do it and fail anyone can

Lastly the long term or short term ...... I would say we are very very well set up for the long term .... both on and off the field ...... and I would 90 to 95% of supporters would agree with me

So I am not sure what you are smoking but I would advise you to stop

Always respected your posts Devilhead but you’ve thrown in a few personal digs and sledges at times which implies (in my opinion anyway) that you probably don’t believe some of the forward looking statements that you’ve made.

Let’s wait and see how we go next year. If we make top 8 and if this management (Finnis/Lethlean) can lead the club and guide the playing group towards becoming a contender, then I’ll be first to apologise for doubting them

[samoht]

Crouch has been good, but he is virtually the same player as Dunstan. We recruited yet another "inside" midfielder.

One of the two had to go.

And the younger player Dunstan was quickly snapped up by the premiers.

We just keep doubling and tripling up on the same types... how many small forwards, inside midfielders, half back flankers do we need?
We have stretched our salary cap by having all these extra players that are superfluous to our needs. And then there's Hanneberry and Hill stretching it to breaking point.

Meanwhile, we keep overlooking the young midfielders with outside run ... what we really do need ...with our first draft picks.

Mistake after rookie mistake ... we are still making them.

Let's see who we recruit with our first draft pick.

We need to change things up ...

[Scollop]

We got Crouch because the Hannebery trade failed.

[samoht]

And Hind is a reminder of how poorly we develop players.

Our club has been making the same rookie mistakes for most of its 150 year history.

[cwrcyn]

Here we go again about HInd. He's 27 years old! Stop writing about him as if he came out of the U18s. How is Byrnes developing? Very well, I'd say. And Connolly? Also very well. That Rowan Marshall guy we got as a rookie developed pretty well at St Kilda. Gee, what a player Jack Steele has become since leaving GWS. That Gresham kid developed into a pretty good player, didn't he? So did that Paton kid.

[cwrcyn]

How about these other mistakes. Dougall Howard, Callum Wilkie, Cooper Sharman, Hunter Clark, Dan Butler, Max King, Paddy Ryder, Tom Highmore. Shocking......just shocking

[samoht]

Our biggest mistake is recruiting players that are superfluous to our needs ... the same types over and over ... of average to good ability.

We had to let Dunstan go because Crouch is virtually the same player.

We need quality, not quantity and to finally start to recruit to our needs.

How about we finally do that?

We need a couple of quality outside midfielders ... let's see what we do with our first draft pick?

[saynta]

Love Grant but I will be voting for the Blake.

[samoht]

Who cares who it is ... as long as complacency is out the door and we improve in the areas we definitely need to improve in, and as long as we recognise, learn from and are determined not to repeat our rookie mistakes, I will be a fan of the whole board.

[Devilhead]

Was us winning a final year due to our rookie mistakes?

Was our shocking injury run this year due to our rookie mistakes?

[Devilhead]

Nothing is free. Crouch takes up a spot and he also commands a top end salary relative to others on our list. I'm not convinced that he'll be a premiership player for St Kilda

I commend you for trying to put a positive spin on the Hannebery deal.

The reason we had on field success has nothing to do with Lethlean and Finnis.

We were fortunate enough to gain the services of Brett Ratten. As far as Matt Finnis is concerned...weird how someone can survive for so long when he's achieved didley squat as far as success on field for the St Kilda football club.

The question remains. Did Lethlean take short cuts or will we see this group do it again in 2022 or 2023? I reckon both Lethlean and Finnis are surplus after the appointment of Ratten.

The next question (which is crucial in determining if this admin is fair dinkum about winning a flag ) is whether the focus for the footy club is again on short term needs or on a plan for the longer term benefit of the football club.

So.which top end middle aged mid should have we got instead of Crouch that would not have cost us draft picks??

And Lethlean had nothing to.do with the appointment of Ratten as Coach?

From the Age below

Lethlean (General Manager of Football) brought Ratten into the coaching panel to support the since-departed Alan Richardson.

He also appointed James Gallagher as the List Manager and promoted Chris Liberatore to oversee the recruiting portfolio (the structure and resourcing)

Yet according to you .... Lethers had nothing to with making the Finals last year even though he was instrumental in these appointments??

As far as Finnis achieving diddly squat .... well its pretty clear his remit as CEO is focused primarily on off field success ...... I am not sure if you know but our Club have left Seaford and are now stable back home at a revitalised Moorabbin and we have a brand spanking new state art training facility ..... but hey Finnis has had nothing to do with that and he probably had nothing to with our record membership drive or the new Etihad Stadium deal which is a bit better than the last one

As for Ratten taking over the General Manager of Football position (from Lethlean) and the role of CEO (from Finnis) ...... and coaching ...... well why not ...... I mean if GT can do it and fail anyone can

Lastly the long term or short term ...... I would say we are very very well set up for the long term .... both on and off the field ...... and I would 90 to 95% of supporters would agree with me

So I am not sure what you are smoking but I would advise you to stop

Always respected your posts Devilhead but you’ve thrown in a few personal digs and sledges at times which implies (in my opinion anyway) that you probably don’t believe some of the forward looking statements that you’ve made.

Let’s wait and see how we go next year. If we make top 8 and if this management (Finnis/Lethlean) can lead the club and guide the playing group towards becoming a contender, then I’ll be first to apologise for doubting them

Gee .... I only comprehensively & convincingly debated your arguments ...... and then asked what you were smoking

There is some bad stuff out there so just checking you are ok

[saynta]

Who cares who it is ... as long as complacency is out the door and we improve in the areas we definitely need to improve in, and as long as we recognise, learn from and are determined not to repeat our rookie mistakes, I will be a fan of the whole board.

I am a fan of the current board hence I will be voting for the Blake.

[saintly]

Crouch has been good, but he is virtually the same player as Dunstan. We recruited yet another "inside" midfielder.

One of the two had to go.

And the younger player Dunstan was quickly snapped up by the premiers.

We just keep doubling and tripling up on the same types... how many small forwards, inside midfielders, half back flankers do we need?
We have stretched our salary cap by having all these extra players that are superfluous to our needs. And then there's Hanneberry and Hill stretching it to breaking point.

Meanwhile, we keep overlooking the young midfielders with outside run ... what we really do need ...with our first draft picks.

Mistake after rookie mistake ... we are still making them.

Let's see who we recruit with our first draft pick.

We need to change things up ...

seriously doubt he was snapped up. noone else was looking at him except Gold Coast who would only rookie him. if was sanpped up he would have gotten a 3 year contract with lots of clubs wanting him.

if the salary cap was at breaking point we would not be int he positions we are.

[Sanctorum]

The "not a mind reader" or "pretending to be" appears to be exactly what you are. The players you mentioned were all after the fact, back up, non future players. Hannebery is the only liability. Hill is fine.

Thomas is a grandstander, it's a win win for him at the moment. Again, why not this outrage 4 to 5 years ago?

I can't answer that GL, maybe an alert journo can pose that question to Thomas, but if you read the following article published in May on the AFL website in May it might explain why Ryan and Thomas have come out recently:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/620556/dama ... to-members

None of us enjoy seeing our footy team getting criticised in the media, but after so much promise in 2020 and the decline in 2021 it is hardly surprising.

Anyhow, this debate is going around in circles and we all have our own opinions, best to say that we will find out soon enough in season 2022 whether or not the team can turn things around - I think they can, but not sure they will!

[Impatient Sainter]

I cant believe this thread is 16 pages long, it must be a record for Saintsational?

There is no doubt the club are in a much better positioned for sustained sucess now than they have ever been in their history. There has been a couple of hickups in trading eg Hannebrey & potentially Hill. Otherwise Finnis, Leathlean, Gallagher & Ratten are exactly the right group to lead the club forward.

Have faith now is not the time to listen to an egotistical individual in Thomas. He may even mean well, but its all about GT as it always has been.

[Ghost Like]

Anyhow, this debate is going around in circles and we all have our own opinions, best to say that we will find out soon enough in season 2022 whether or not the team can turn things around - I think they can, but not sure they will!

Very true sancto & what's highlighted is the true, but sad, mindset of a dyed in the wool saint supporter.