Wealthy St Kilda figure Gerry Ryan and former coach Grant Thomas endorse Larry Benge to join Saints board

[Ghost Like]

Last 3 games of 21. Flogged Freo in a canter; they were fringe 8 with big scalps and had everything to play for. Got big lead on Geelong at Geelong and got run over by experience on home ground - 14 points. Gave Sydney a hiding.

Sharman and King emerge as class scoring acts. We have recruited exceptionally well; see Highmore and Higgins. Crouch will get better. Improvement will come naturally as injured players with class will be available and fit in 22 whereas they were not in 21.

GT what's the problem. The first half of season poor efforts had become history. And why do you see yourself as the answer to selective issues you have raised. Haven't won a premiership so off with everyone's head. This is the high priest of process: follow the process and results will come was his mantra - now he is into magic wands and has found a footy genius hiding as a dentist for all this time. Ratts will be in third year, for pete's sake, fair suck of the impatient sausage - he had us in two finals and on the cusp in 21 when we had to come from rock bottom form.

If Grant can be specific about Matt Finnis' weaknesses and Leathlean's and how he will guarantee to bring in people with none that will hit the ground running, spell it/them out Grant. Generalised character white anting is not edifying. Everyone that makes high stakes calls and plenty of them makes wrong calls, luck and fate influence outcomes. Are you claiming you can take all those external factors out of the equation.

Rhetorical, opportunistic, vague and unrealistic bulls***, GT. The axiom all change is good was made up by Machiavelli when he wanted to rock the boat so he could take the wheel. Perhaps you are being paid by Carlton and Essendon to derail us as we will be contesting one position in the 8 with them. We are already changing for the better.

Think you and the dentist are the only ones that dearly want a flag and have the magic formula. Trying to fix a problem that does not exist can't help us. Unnecessary distractions from the main game can hurt though. Go away.

But we finished 10th,we always have excuses we need a vision ala B.Gale can the current board provide us with that or do they need a nudge ,I’m a GT fan & yes he’s got a huge gob on him but I don’t think he would do anything to hurt the saints & neither would Gerry Ryan they just want the club to go huge & improve & why not !

I think we all sipped from kool aid back in the 2001 to 2004 era, it was an exciting period. PADDLEPOP you did make me think when you said, "we always have excuses". There's been a constant of poor decisions, poor executions, poor management, poor administration and poor coaching over the decades.

Thomas has also been a constant in those decades, drifting in and out without success, without any meaningful change only further divisiveness. Now it is the time for others to create their St Kilda history. We are now under the stewardship of Bassat - he's not a silly man, he's infinitely more successful in business and building big companies than others. I think this is his time.

It is not time for another cameo by Thomas in the history of St Kilda. Perhaps he should simply buy $15 million dollars of membership votes just in case.

[sunsaint]

]

GT worked within his budget which was a shoe string. He prioritised staff he believed in and did extra jobs where he thought people were weak He paid more for those he believed in which is the opposite of a control freak.
.

Gee that's a nice flip on the definition of control freak. Prioritised staff...did extra jobs for those he thought were weak??? He paid more...for who & with whose money? How does that make sense after your first sentence about a shoe string budget?

Wasn't it that shoestring budget that paid out the promise to Blight and took our players on overseas leadership contiki tours?

A shoestring budget weakened by turning its back on Tassie. A shoestring budget that could afford to sued for holiday pay. Sorry shaggy, none of that makes sense.

He was a control freak who now requires periodic validation through the media using St Kilda, yet again. I wish he'd just do a KB and disappear altogether!

the club was broke before they took control
IF you dont know that there is no use in a discussion
They turned finances around & introduced some unique & ground breaking ideas

PS Im quite sure there is an adjective above you are going to twist to suit

Doesn't seem much point in the discussion then.

Have I said the club was rolling in it? The claim was Thomas worked within a shoestring budget and did extra jobs because people were weak, does not sound like he did them because we had no money.

This "broke" club lures Blight in for a million dollars, attracts players of the calibre of Hamill & Gehrig. Those finances that got turned around did not find its way to player services. The same finances that got structured to pay 10 players the lion's share of the salary cap plus give Thomas a nice pay rise for all these hats he was reluctant to give up but still wished to be compensated for.

Nothing there to twist, simply disagree with your take. I won't get into those unique and ground breaking ideas simply because you didn't.

ok so seeing how its you guys that seem the most upset about all of this
Can I ask you a question

Is Thomas running for election?

Think this probably ends the discussion

[Ghost Like]

]

GT worked within his budget which was a shoe string. He prioritised staff he believed in and did extra jobs where he thought people were weak He paid more for those he believed in which is the opposite of a control freak.
.

Gee that's a nice flip on the definition of control freak. Prioritised staff...did extra jobs for those he thought were weak??? He paid more...for who & with whose money? How does that make sense after your first sentence about a shoe string budget?

Wasn't it that shoestring budget that paid out the promise to Blight and took our players on overseas leadership contiki tours?

A shoestring budget weakened by turning its back on Tassie. A shoestring budget that could afford to sued for holiday pay. Sorry shaggy, none of that makes sense.

He was a control freak who now requires periodic validation through the media using St Kilda, yet again. I wish he'd just do a KB and disappear altogether!

the club was broke before they took control
IF you dont know that there is no use in a discussion
They turned finances around & introduced some unique & ground breaking ideas

PS Im quite sure there is an adjective above you are going to twist to suit

Doesn't seem much point in the discussion then.

Have I said the club was rolling in it? The claim was Thomas worked within a shoestring budget and did extra jobs because people were weak, does not sound like he did them because we had no money.

This "broke" club lures Blight in for a million dollars, attracts players of the calibre of Hamill & Gehrig. Those finances that got turned around did not find its way to player services. The same finances that got structured to pay 10 players the lion's share of the salary cap plus give Thomas a nice pay rise for all these hats he was reluctant to give up but still wished to be compensated for.

Nothing there to twist, simply disagree with your take. I won't get into those unique and ground breaking ideas simply because you didn't.

ok so seeing how its you guys that seem the most upset about all of this
Can I ask you a question

Is Thomas running for election?

Think this probably ends the discussion

For someone who does not appear to want any discussion, you are doing a lot of quoting and questioning.

The answer is "No" but why is that your question? I'm more intrigued about this "one fight left in me" quote. Why would someone simply backing a candidate say that? Why can't Thomas have the grace of Ryan? Is it too hard to suggest a board candidate? Or isn't there enough spotlight in that tactic?

It's up to you if you wish to end the discussion sunsaint.

[Teflon]

As my mates who I meet with regularly will attest, I was disgusted when the club sacked Malcolm Blight and replaced him with Grant Thomas - I always suspected that GT engineered this quite mischievously. As it turned out, Thomas achieved considerable success with the team in the years 2001 - 2006 but ultimately he failed to get the team into a GF, and so I was quite happy that he was sacked and replaced by Ross Lyon.

Since that time, Thomas has been in and out in the media at different times and commented on the performance of St Kilda, which is only natural given his long association with our club, not all of which I have agreed with but I never considered it a big deal as he is far from the only one doing so - notably Jeff Kennett.

I am very much a "glass 3/4 full" when it comes to St Kilda's prospects, indeed I commented recently that I consider the current list to be capable of playing finals in 2022. Nonetheless, for all of my optimism I am also a realist and understand that better judges than me don't share my hopes, with most commentators predicting St Kilda to be unlikely to live up to our hopes and expectations.

Insofar as his latest foray is concerned (which I'm sure is fully backed by Gerry Ryan), I am not going to allow my personal prejudices to cloud my judgement.

Teflon and others claim that the team's horror first half of the 2021 season was due to poor preparation during the pre-season - that may be so but I have not seen that openly acknowledged by either Finnis, Lethlean or Ratten, let alone the Club President. In any event, if that is 100% correct it reflects equally poorly on those three individuals because I would find it incredible that the head of fitness bears sole responsibility for such a massive blunder. Pre-season preparation is fundamental to a footy team's success - stuff it up, as Adelaide did a few years ago, and you've wasted a whole season, if not more....

I won't list them all, but there were at least 3 losing games in 2021 in which St Kilda were clearly the better team - the most glaring one in Cairns where Adelaide came from a long way behind to overhaul the Saints in the dying minutes of the game. I agree 100% with Thomas when he claims it was lack of attitude and effort, rather than injuries, that brought about the massive thrashings inflicted on St Kilda by Essendon, Richmond, Port Adelaide and Footscray which led to the team's poor percentage from which it never really recovered.

So, as I stated in earlier posts, in view of such a poor season, I see nothing wrong with Gerry Ryan and Grant Thomas demanding a change in direction, starting with introducing new blood to the Board, and as for this playing out in the media I refer to the old saying: "you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs"!

So let’s get this right (maybe raise it with your mates too..)

1. We play finals in 2020
2. Win one first time in 10 years after Richo wilderness
3. In 2021 we are No 1 on the AFL list for most critical injuries to key players (we had Marshall and Ryder for just 11 games...fairly important to our structure)
4. Undisputed toughest draw (check Bombers if you don’t believe me)
5. We suffer 2-3 heavy losses up to mid year (with all the above playing out and pre season a debacle)
6. We unearth Sharman, Highmore, Connolly (with eff all early picks) and see growth from Bytel, Byrnes, King
7. We miss finals by just 1 game and %

And cause Grant comes out and says “we need change at Board level ....if I don’t get it I will consider my options..” (ALL played out embarrassingly via the media) - YOU jump on board the GT train like it’s a good idea and he’s actually offered up a problem....let alone a half decent solution other than grandiose statements with eff all substance??

FWIW - Melbourne missed finals by half a game and % in 2020....their coach u der immense pressure coming into 2021.....they didn’t Shyte the bed or allowed some egotistical nut job to come in and de-rail what they were building .....they stuck fat and won a flag.
And STILL we have mediocrity loving Saints fans just “hankering” for a good ole fashioned GT media Board fight to de-stabilise the club and return us to the good old days...when times were bad....
Just gobsmacked.

[Teflon]

]

GT worked within his budget which was a shoe string. He prioritised staff he believed in and did extra jobs where he thought people were weak He paid more for those he believed in which is the opposite of a control freak.
.

Gee that's a nice flip on the definition of control freak. Prioritised staff...did extra jobs for those he thought were weak??? He paid more...for who & with whose money? How does that make sense after your first sentence about a shoe string budget?

Wasn't it that shoestring budget that paid out the promise to Blight and took our players on overseas leadership contiki tours?

A shoestring budget weakened by turning its back on Tassie. A shoestring budget that could afford to sued for holiday pay. Sorry shaggy, none of that makes sense.

He was a control freak who now requires periodic validation through the media using St Kilda, yet again. I wish he'd just do a KB and disappear altogether!

the club was broke before they took control
IF you dont know that there is no use in a discussion
They turned finances around & introduced some unique & ground breaking ideas

PS Im quite sure there is an adjective above you are going to twist to suit

Doesn't seem much point in the discussion then.

Have I said the club was rolling in it? The claim was Thomas worked within a shoestring budget and did extra jobs because people were weak, does not sound like he did them because we had no money.

This "broke" club lures Blight in for a million dollars, attracts players of the calibre of Hamill & Gehrig. Those finances that got turned around did not find its way to player services. The same finances that got structured to pay 10 players the lion's share of the salary cap plus give Thomas a nice pay rise for all these hats he was reluctant to give up but still wished to be compensated for.

Nothing there to twist, simply disagree with your take. I won't get into those unique and ground breaking ideas simply because you didn't.

ok so seeing how its you guys that seem the most upset about all of this
Can I ask you a question

Is Thomas running for election?

Think this probably ends the discussion

For someone who does not appear to want any discussion, you are doing a lot of quoting and questioning.

The answer is "No" but why is that your question? I'm more intrigued about this "one fight left in me" quote. Why would someone simply backing a candidate say that? Why can't Thomas have the grace of Ryan? Is it too hard to suggest a board candidate? Or isn't there enough spotlight in that tactic?

It's up to you if you wish to end the discussion sunsaint.

Great post and THIS is the question for sure
It ain’t real hard to see his motivation....blind Freddy can see it ....ain’t nothing to do with Larry either
He’s a puppet in Thomas’s eyes.

[Teflon]

Last 3 games of 21. Flogged Freo in a canter; they were fringe 8 with big scalps and had everything to play for. Got big lead on Geelong at Geelong and got run over by experience on home ground - 14 points. Gave Sydney a hiding.

Sharman and King emerge as class scoring acts. We have recruited exceptionally well; see Highmore and Higgins. Crouch will get better. Improvement will come naturally as injured players with class will be available and fit in 22 whereas they were not in 21.

GT what's the problem. The first half of season poor efforts had become history. And why do you see yourself as the answer to selective issues you have raised. Haven't won a premiership so off with everyone's head. This is the high priest of process: follow the process and results will come was his mantra - now he is into magic wands and has found a footy genius hiding as a dentist for all this time. Ratts will be in third year, for pete's sake, fair suck of the impatient sausage - he had us in two finals and on the cusp in 21 when we had to come from rock bottom form.

If Grant can be specific about Matt Finnis' weaknesses and Leathlean's and how he will guarantee to bring in people with none that will hit the ground running, spell it/them out Grant. Generalised character white anting is not edifying. Everyone that makes high stakes calls and plenty of them makes wrong calls, luck and fate influence outcomes. Are you claiming you can take all those external factors out of the equation.

Rhetorical, opportunistic, vague and unrealistic bulls***, GT. The axiom all change is good was made up by Machiavelli when he wanted to rock the boat so he could take the wheel. Perhaps you are being paid by Carlton and Essendon to derail us as we will be contesting one position in the 8 with them. We are already changing for the better.

Think you and the dentist are the only ones that dearly want a flag and have the magic formula. Trying to fix a problem that does not exist can't help us. Unnecessary distractions from the main game can hurt though. Go away.

Said brilliantly

[Devilhead]

Does anyone know what GTs excuses were for his failure as coach/administrator to win a flag?

[Teflon]

Does anyone know what GTs excuses were for his failure as coach/administrator to win a flag?

Apparently lacked “daring, belief and a dash of innovation”
But he and Rod fixed the culture....

[Scollop]

What's going to change when you have the same people in charge?

In 2016/2017 we were a team that finished just outside the top 8 and Matt Finnis and the board of St Kilda promised the Saints fan base that we'd have success if we had stability...

A lot of teams went past us from 2017 until 2019.

So here we are in 2021 (a team that finished just outside the top 8) and Matt Finnis and the board are promising Saints fans that there'll be success if we have stability...

So... the obvious things to look at apart from the change in coaches is the quality of our playing list and also most importantly, whether these players we have are good enough or better than other top 8 contenders.


Is Brad Crouch or Hannas or Hill going to knock off someone out of the All Australian squad in 2022?

Are we headed for a premiership or are we just making up the numbers?

I don't believe Hannebery, Hill and Crouch are going to be St Kilda premiership players.

I don't think the people like Lethlean and Finnis and others who backed getting these guys (and what it cost in terms of picks and salary) should be in charge.

It's not just the fact that some of these recruits have 'full bellies' as Roo has said, but also the opportunity cost. E.g We could have had Treloar if we weren't paying huge salaries to these blokes



..................................................So ......................................

What's going to change when you have the same people in charge? Oh yeah, but they won't make those mistakes again....bs...who says?

What if Lethlean and Finnis go for ready made mature recruits again at the end of 2022 just to save their own bacon and make us middle of the road again for another 5 years?

One poster (Waltzing St Kikda) said that maybe they should get another year. I reckon Finnis and Lethers should BOTH announce that it will definitely be ...their last year

[cwrcyn]

Treloar? Another player who can't kick for sh#t. At the same level as Dunstan in that regard. Not the answer

[saynta]

Treloar? Another player who can't kick for sh#t. At the same level as Dunstan in that regard. Not the answer

Who ended up with the bikkies. Not the doggies and certainly not Treloar.

[Scollop]

Treloar? Another player who can't kick for sh#t. At the same level as Dunstan in that regard. Not the answer

You obviously haven’t followed Treloar’s career very closely have you? He’s finished top 5 in the best and fairest 5 or six years running. He had an outstanding first season for Collingwood, playing all 22 games, and lead the club for disposals, tackles, clearances, inside 50s and bounces.

Dunny doesn’t even come close and Dunny hasn’t got the tank or the ability to run the way Adam can. Treloar’s averages and his numbers during 2014 to 2019 are elite. Treloar is the ultimate professional and never jeopardised his career or abused his body.

Also…you mustn’t have watched the Grand Final this year.

Treloar kicked the first 2 goals in the second quarter of GF 2021 which ignited his team and I reckon if the Doggies were as fresh as Melbourne, Adam would have been a Grand Final hero.

[saynta]

Treloar? Another player who can't kick for sh#t. At the same level as Dunstan in that regard. Not the answer

You obviously haven’t followed Treloar’s career very closely have you? He’s finished top 5 in the best and fairest 5 or six years running. He had an outstanding first season for Collingwood, playing all 22 games, and lead the club for disposals, tackles, clearances, inside 50s and bounces.

Dunny doesn’t even come close and Dunny hasn’t got the tank or the ability to run the way Adam can. Treloar’s averages and his numbers during 2014 to 2019 are elite. Treloar is the ultimate professional and never jeopardised his career or abused his body.

Also…you mustn’t have watched the Grand Final this year.

Treloar kicked the first 2 goals in the second quarter of GF 2021 which ignited his team and I reckon if the Doggies were as fresh as Melbourne, Adam would have been a Grand Final hero.

Lets face the real facts. After half time the Dogs were slaughtered. Given the biggest arse whipping I can remember seeing in a grand final.

Teloar was never our answer nor was he the doggies.

[samoht]

Teloar was never our answer.

There's obviously better out there (there always is), but beggars can't be choosers - at least he's a genuine midfielder who could've provided us with the run and spread we desperately need.

And his disposal efficiency of over 72% isn't too shabby.

One of the reasons why Collingwood declined.

[Teflon]

What's going to change when you have the same people in charge?

In 2016/2017 we were a team that finished just outside the top 8 and Matt Finnis and the board of St Kilda promised the Saints fan base that we'd have success if we had stability...

A lot of teams went past us from 2017 until 2019.

So here we are in 2021 (a team that finished just outside the top 8) and Matt Finnis and the board are promising Saints fans that there'll be success if we have stability...

So... the obvious things to look at apart from the change in coaches is the quality of our playing list and also most importantly, whether these players we have are good enough or better than other top 8 contenders.


Is Brad Crouch or Hannas or Hill going to knock off someone out of the All Australian squad in 2022?

Are we headed for a premiership or are we just making up the numbers?

I don't believe Hannebery, Hill and Crouch are going to be St Kilda premiership players.

I don't think the people like Lethlean and Finnis and others who backed getting these guys (and what it cost in terms of picks and salary) should be in charge.

It's not just the fact that some of these recruits have 'full bellies' as Roo has said, but also the opportunity cost. E.g We could have had Treloar if we weren't paying huge salaries to these blokes



..................................................So ......................................

What's going to change when you have the same people in charge? Oh yeah, but they won't make those mistakes again....bs...who says?

What if Lethlean and Finnis go for ready made mature recruits again at the end of 2022 just to save their own bacon and make us middle of the road again for another 5 years?

One poster (Waltzing St Kikda) said that maybe they should get another year. I reckon Finnis and Lethers should BOTH announce that it will definitely be ...their last year

Some Benny Hill music needed when reading this...

“We don’t like Brad Crouch....we shoulda got Treloar!!!”
Seriously comedy hour stuff

Even better....

“What’s going to change when you have the same people in charge....”

Answer??

Let’s Bring backwoods ole failed GT who couldn’t get it done when he was in charge ...,yeah that makes sense...,so he can tell us all how skewed our “belief clouds” (remember that one?) are Or maybe he can “exit Rob Harvey in...” again

Yesterday’s news.
Time to move on we don’t need snake charmers and soothe sayers ...,
Leave Bassat to get on with it

[samoht]

Crouch is a good player, but what we need is an outside midfielder/playmaker with run and spread.

Dunstan played the same role as Crouch. So, it was always either/or.

Treloar would have brought another dimension with his run.
Collingwood might have already got the best out of him - his best year was 2019. But we could have sure used him.

Anyway ...
We can't blame GT for us doubling up, quadrupling up and loading up on half back flankers, small forwards, inside midfielders and ruckmen after ruckmen (VFL standard) - betting our future on battered, past-it players like Hanneberry, etc.. and generally recruiting wastefully, for the short term and outside of our needs.

We need a shake up - to stop the rot and the waste. There are a lot of areas we need to improve in, including player development.

[Teflon]

Crouch is a good player, but what we need is an outside midfielder/playmaker with run and spread.

Dunstan played the same role as Crouch. So, it was always either/or.

Treloar would have brought another dimension with his run.
Collingwood might have already got the best out of him - his best year was 2019. But we could have sure used him.

Anyway ...
We can't blame GT for us doubling up, quadrupling up and loading up on half back flankers, small forwards, inside midfielders and ruckmen after ruckmen (VFL standard) - betting our future on battered, past-it players like Hanneberry, etc.. and generally recruiting wastefully, for the short term and outside of our needs.

We need a shake up - to stop the rot and the waste. There are a lot of areas we need to improve in, including player development.

We’ve turned the list over massively in the past 3 years
We’ve had to bring in mature talent due to the gap in age profile of the list - last year we were world beaters according to the media (well done Gallagher making something out of nothing...I don’t miss Newnes/Acres days....)
We’ve recruited (over powerful clubs who wanted him) an extremely respected Head of Player Development
We have used late draft picks and mid year draft picks to unearth gold (well done Libba thank god Trout gone..)
We will use a top draft pick this year for the first time ages to bring in a quality mid
We will pay down debt by $3m this year
We’ve invested $50m into Moorabbin facilities
We will launch the Danny Frawley Centre in Feb
We have record membership
Bing is on the radar ...

Stop being so god damn dramatic with “we need shake ups” cause GT vomits his cliches all over the media let Bassat and Lethers get on with the job

Now is not the time for distractions that will only take us further away from a flag.

[samoht]

We need someone new and motivated on the board to make sure we are indeed turning the corner and now on a new track.
To keep the incumbents honest.

This is St Kilda we are talking about ... things need to change.

[Sanctorum]

Anyway ...
We can't blame GT for us doubling up, quadrupling up and loading up on half back flankers, small forwards, inside midfielders and ruckmen after ruckmen (VFL standard) - betting our future on battered, past-it players like Hanneberry, etc.. and generally recruiting wastefully, for the short term and outside of our needs.

We need a shake up - to stop the rot and the waste. There are a lot of areas we need to improve in, including player development.

We’ve turned the list over massively in the past 3 years
We’ve had to bring in mature talent due to the gap in age profile of the list - last year we were world beaters according to the media (well done Gallagher making something out of nothing...I don’t miss Newnes/Acres days....)
We’ve recruited (over powerful clubs who wanted him) an extremely respected Head of Player Development
We have used late draft picks and mid year draft picks to unearth gold (well done Libba thank god Trout gone..)
We will use a top draft pick this year for the first time ages to bring in a quality mid
We will pay down debt by $3m this year
We’ve invested $50m into Moorabbin facilities
We will launch the Danny Frawley Centre in Feb
We have record membership
Bing is on the radar ...

Stop being so god damn dramatic with “we need shake ups” cause GT vomits his cliches all over the media let Bassat and Lethers get on with the job

Now is not the time for distractions that will only take us further away from a flag.

Although we can agree to disagree on some of the points you have listed Teflon, I admire your positive outlook on where St Kilda is at and is heading.

I'd be interested to find out what you consider to be a pass mark for the team in 2022?

My view, as I have expressed previously, is nothing less than top 6, which should be within the capacity of the current list but wholly dependant on the players' 'attitude and effort' irrespective of injuries - as Finnis stated this week: "The non-negotiable now is that we are competitive to the end, that's the ingredient we are missing."

He should have said from 'start to the end' because all eyes will be on how the team performs in Round 1......

[Vortex]

The smart person will wait and see how the team performs in 2022, if we rebound strongly and make finals then Thomas doesn't have a leg to stand on and threats of a coup go away.

However if we dish up the same as what was served in 2021 then the ground is fertile for the big bull to waltz on down to the bottom paddock and shag every stranded cow he can find.

[Teflon]

Anyway ...
We can't blame GT for us doubling up, quadrupling up and loading up on half back flankers, small forwards, inside midfielders and ruckmen after ruckmen (VFL standard) - betting our future on battered, past-it players like Hanneberry, etc.. and generally recruiting wastefully, for the short term and outside of our needs.

We need a shake up - to stop the rot and the waste. There are a lot of areas we need to improve in, including player development.

We’ve turned the list over massively in the past 3 years
We’ve had to bring in mature talent due to the gap in age profile of the list - last year we were world beaters according to the media (well done Gallagher making something out of nothing...I don’t miss Newnes/Acres days....)
We’ve recruited (over powerful clubs who wanted him) an extremely respected Head of Player Development
We have used late draft picks and mid year draft picks to unearth gold (well done Libba thank god Trout gone..)
We will use a top draft pick this year for the first time ages to bring in a quality mid
We will pay down debt by $3m this year
We’ve invested $50m into Moorabbin facilities
We will launch the Danny Frawley Centre in Feb
We have record membership
Bing is on the radar ...

Stop being so god damn dramatic with “we need shake ups” cause GT vomits his cliches all over the media let Bassat and Lethers get on with the job

Now is not the time for distractions that will only take us further away from a flag.

Although we can agree to disagree on some of the points you have listed Teflon, I admire your positive outlook on where St Kilda is at and is heading.

I'd be interested to find out what you consider to be a pass mark for the team in 2022?

My view, as I have expressed previously, is nothing less than top 6, which should be within the capacity of the current list but wholly dependant on the players' 'attitude and effort' irrespective of injuries - as Finnis stated this week: "The non-negotiable now is that we are competitive to the end, that's the ingredient we are missing."

He should have said from 'start to the end' because all eyes will be on how the team performs in Round 1......

I’d be wanting top 6 and finals win
I don’t buy the whole “we just need intent and belief and we can overcome anyone...” it’s lazy GT mumbo jumbo
IF we have injuries like this year facts are we’ll struggle to get there
Whilst the club is and has been doing a lot right (it’s not easy changing a list with not much draft picks and not being a destination club after 7 long years in the Richo wilderness..) reality is we are thin depth wise and it’s worse in key spots eg
- ruck, if we can’t get Roma/Ryder on the park often enough in good stretches of games we’ll struggle
- Z Jones/Gresham are our genuine mid running options...lose them like this year for extended periods we struggle
- D Howard should he go down....we might be in strife ..

So to say injuries don’t matter ...it’s all about intent is rubbish. Melb win the flag this year and we’re consistently one of the top sides and had bugger all injuries..no mystery

[freely]

Yes and no. Thing is, if we DON'T have intent and belief, we won't overcome anyone. And unfortunately, our current board and coaching staff are exceptionally light-on for energy, innovation or inspiration. They even look fat. Why is it that you'd always give Bevo's team a half chance - even if they're playing poorly? Likewise Clarko, even with a very ropey Hawthorn last year. Their wins may not have been very likely but they were always seemed a possibility. Conversely...

[shanegrambeau]

Yes and no. Thing is, if we DON'T have intent and belief, we won't overcome anyone. And unfortunately, our current board and coaching staff are exceptionally light-on for energy, innovation or inspiration. They even look fat. Why is it that you'd always give Bevo's team a half chance - even if they're playing poorly? Likewise Clarko, even with a very ropey Hawthorn last year. Their wins may not have been very likely but they were always seemed a possibility. Conversely...

Surely that is bias, based on 'St Kilda Sufference'. We are so used to disappointment we almost expect it. It conforms with our world view, the slope of the earth etc.,

For instance, in those absolute spankings we got last year, I can't believe the players were not trying. I think it is best now, to assume they were simply unfit, even though Cane Cornes etc., say lack of effort, based on some stat or the other.

I do it too.l I accuse Ross of playing by the numbers ....but I see his kms ran and I step back..

It looks like we are gonna lose cause we are St Kilda kinda thing.

I am not saying some players are not down on confidence..cause that really looked like a syndrome this year. And that I think has something to do with with dynamics of teh playing group..Something was iffy.

But when it comes to intent, I believe they do intend to try.

[Sanctorum]

I’d be wanting top 6 and finals win
I don’t buy the whole “we just need intent and belief and we can overcome anyone...” it’s lazy GT mumbo jumbo
IF we have injuries like this year facts are we’ll struggle to get there
Whilst the club is and has been doing a lot right (it’s not easy changing a list with not much draft picks and not being a destination club after 7 long years in the Richo wilderness..) reality is we are thin depth wise and it’s worse in key spots eg
- ruck, if we can’t get Roma/Ryder on the park often enough in good stretches of games we’ll struggle
- Z Jones/Gresham are our genuine mid running options...lose them like this year for extended periods we struggle
- D Howard should he go down....we might be in strife ..

So to say injuries don’t matter ...it’s all about intent is rubbish. Melb win the flag this year and we’re consistently one of the top sides and had bugger all injuries..no mystery

The things you've listed Teflon confirm that the St Kilda Football Department has made some very poor decisions in the past 5 years, especially in the crucial areas of recruiting, fitness and player development.

From 2015 to 2019 the team failed to get a single player named All Australian, and even in 2020 when the team played finals there were only 2, one of whom, Dan Butler, came from Richmond. This year only Jack Steele made AA, which says heaps about the lack of star quality on the list and reflects poorly on the current administration.

With pretty well every single AFL commentator writing off any chance of St Kilda making the top 8 in 2022, it is little wonder that the likes of Gerry Ryan and Grant Thomas have come out to demand a change in direction....

[longtimesaint]

If we play to anywhere near our potential and have a reasonable run with injuries we should easily make the eight.
I think the current administration are doing a good job and stability in the off field areas are what you need.
We have several players that could become AA players in the future including Marshall, King and Hunter Clark.
At this time last year none of the so called experts thought Melbourne could make the eight let alone win the flag.