Clavarino delisted (according to Tony74)

[shanegrambeau]

Does this give Joyce (Hymie the robot) a chance to go on?

[Wayne42]

There is a chance Joyce can continue to rejoice in his Aussie adventure.

[Yorkeys]

Would one back Oscar to neutralize Josh Bruce, Cameron, McDonald, Marshall/Dixon, McStay, Himmelberg et al. Not for mine and I think that's what a 197cm key defender's job is. Very tough.

[bangaulegend]

Feel for Clav, so many injury setbacks, but was nowhere near the level required to be a defender in a top 6 AFL team.

Wish him all the best, but I'll be amazed if he ends up at another AFL club.

Seems just another draftee that has to produce his very best to get a game at AFL level, but that's as far as it goes. Like Ed Phillips, Hugh Goddard, Doulton Langlands, Robbie Young, Bailey Rice, Brandon White, Lewis Pierce, Nathan Wright, Cameron Shenton, Josh Saunders, Brodie Murdoch, Tom Curren.... there's been so many over the last decade that just don't develop up to the next level.

And that's the tip of the iceberg Jason Holmes,Luke Delaney,Ryan Abbott,Spencer White,Logan Austin,Nathan Freeman,Eli Templeton,Dean Polo,Beau Maister,Sam Rowe,Tom Lee,Denis Trent Lane,Jackson Fergison,Dan Archer,Ali Smith,Ryan Gamble,Nick Winmar,Luke Miles,Nick Heyne,Aryn Siposs,Jaryd Allen,Will Johnson,Terry Milera,Sam Dunnell, Tom Symkin,Tom Ledger ,Darren Minchington,Matty Parker & that's only in the last 10 years & there will be some I've missed

[evertonfc]

Feel for Clav, so many injury setbacks, but was nowhere near the level required to be a defender in a top 6 AFL team.

Wish him all the best, but I'll be amazed if he ends up at another AFL club.

Seems just another draftee that has to produce his very best to get a game at AFL level, but that's as far as it goes. Like Ed Phillips, Hugh Goddard, Doulton Langlands, Robbie Young, Bailey Rice, Brandon White, Lewis Pierce, Nathan Wright, Cameron Shenton, Josh Saunders, Brodie Murdoch, Tom Curren.... there's been so many over the last decade that just don't develop up to the next level.

Well said. Nobody wanted Clav to succeed more than me. And I'm so happy that he got to play 5 games - both for him, and for us.

He showed glimpses he could make it, but they were just that. Now, if he's really committed to an AFL career, he should drop to VFL level and seek to dominate in the way that Sam Collins did a few years ago. Look at him now.

Likewise, I expect Blake Schlensog and Sam Skinner to be drafted this year as a mature-age defenders. Late developer Schlensog has been touted in some quarters as a top 30-40 pick after his stunning season for South Fremantle. Skinner would be there at the end of the draft.

FWIW, I would be happy taking Schlensog if he's available at 46, but I suspect he'll be closer to the top 35 - and I suspect we'll need that pick to match a 25-35-ish bid for Marcus Windhager or Mitchito Owens, which would render it a moot point anyway (Windhager and Owens are gifts for us that we have to accommodate) as we actually need to secure some more picks in that range to avoid going into deficit next year.

My gut feel is that Skinner is a better version of Clavarino and will be available at the very end of the draft or as a rookie, although Clav's development this year - at VFL and AFL level - was significant. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get picked up elsewhere.

His development curve could yet continue, although he reminded me of Hugh Goddard: some naturally obvious tools that attract recruiters, but suffered from the dreaded curse of unbearably slow reaction times and very limited mobility which ultimately proved fatal at the highest level. Skinner's mobility isn't premium but his reaction times seem better. You can live with one of those ailments, but not two.

[Impatient Sainter]

What really bothers me about a lot of our recruits is there lack of physical development? Too many of our players and Clavarino was one, who needed to really focus on their body development. He was a guy who needed to work heavily on his core strength and dynamic movement, and the club let him down in this regard. He is now delisted and the cycle starts again another 4 years and draft pick/s wasted.

Clark is another example of someone who needs 1 on 1 training in the gym, his arms and body size haven't changed. I know aerobic fitness is important, but there are no excuse for a complete lack of physical definition (he still looks like Mick McGuane). Then you get kids like Coffield who this year appeared to put on too much bulk and as a result lacked agility .

The same stuff was going on at St Kilda 15 years ago, thankfully the club have finally made some changes. Perhaps the club have identified some of the above issues, as they are making changes with the strength & conditioning and medical staff.

[Wayne42]

I take it you mean Mick McGuane's build when he played football, not the pie eating, Macca's munching, ballooning McGuane of his post footy career.

[saynta]

Feel for Clav, so many injury setbacks, but was nowhere near the level required to be a defender in a top 6 AFL team.

Wish him all the best, but I'll be amazed if he ends up at another AFL club.

Seems just another draftee that has to produce his very best to get a game at AFL level, but that's as far as it goes. Like Ed Phillips, Hugh Goddard, Doulton Langlands, Robbie Young, Bailey Rice, Brandon White, Lewis Pierce, Nathan Wright, Cameron Shenton, Josh Saunders, Brodie Murdoch, Tom Curren.... there's been so many over the last decade that just don't develop up to the next level.

And that's the tip of the iceberg Jason Holmes,Luke Delaney,Ryan Abbott,Spencer White,Logan Austin,Nathan Freeman,Eli Templeton,Dean Polo,Beau Maister,Sam Rowe,Tom Lee,Denis Trent Lane,Jackson Fergison,Dan Archer,Ali Smith,Ryan Gamble,Nick Winmar,Luke Miles,Nick Heyne,Aryn Siposs,Jaryd Allen,Will Johnson,Terry Milera,Sam Dunnell, Tom Symkin,Tom Ledger ,Darren Minchington,Matty Parker & that's only in the last 10 years & there will be some I've missed

Templeton wasn't given a fair opportunity at the Saints and has developed into one of the very best VFL players.

[bangaulegend]

Feel for Clav, so many injury setbacks, but was nowhere near the level required to be a defender in a top 6 AFL team.

Wish him all the best, but I'll be amazed if he ends up at another AFL club.

Seems just another draftee that has to produce his very best to get a game at AFL level, but that's as far as it goes. Like Ed Phillips, Hugh Goddard, Doulton Langlands, Robbie Young, Bailey Rice, Brandon White, Lewis Pierce, Nathan Wright, Cameron Shenton, Josh Saunders, Brodie Murdoch, Tom Curren.... there's been so many over the last decade that just don't develop up to the next level.

And that's the tip of the iceberg Jason Holmes,Luke Delaney,Ryan Abbott,Spencer White,Logan Austin,Nathan Freeman,Eli Templeton,Dean Polo,Beau Maister,Sam Rowe,Tom Lee,Denis Trent Lane,Jackson Fergison,Dan Archer,Ali Smith,Ryan Gamble,Nick Winmar,Luke Miles,Nick Heyne,Aryn Siposs,Jaryd Allen,Will Johnson,Terry Milera,Sam Dunnell, Tom Symkin,Tom Ledger ,Darren Minchington,Matty Parker & that's only in the last 10 years & there will be some I've missed

Templeton wasn't given a fair opportunity at the Saints and has developed into one of the very best VFL players.

Fair call

[Bernard Shakey]

Templeton wasn't given a fair opportunity at the Saints and has developed into one of the very best VFL players.

That's exactually what he ever was. A very good VFL player. Never a good AFL player!

[SAINT-LEE]

would expect us to pick up another ready made tall defender, having discarded Carlisle and Clav.
I assume they have someone in mind

Dan Talia maybe?

I wonder

Yeah, get a 30 year-old with injury issues. Far better long term for the Club. What could possibly go wrong? Look at how well this type of recruiting strategy has worked for Geelong.

Oh!

True it'd be shitzen houzen to finish in the top 4 and go to Grand Finals and prelims EVERY FECKING YEAR. Poor Geelong

Maybe they could take tips from us??? Hehehehe

[Yorkeys]

Our long term failure is down to shocking coaching appointment decisions. The rest follows downhill from that. Selecting 30 year olds is fraught though, even Geelong know that. See how cross Scott was as he tore up the worthless betting ticket after Friday night. Should have recruited responsibly. Handy ageing handicappers don't win at WFA often.

[Trev from the Bush]

would expect us to pick up another ready made tall defender, having discarded Carlisle and Clav.
I assume they have someone in mind

Dan Talia maybe?

I wonder

Yeah, get a 30 year-old with injury issues. Far better long term for the Club. What could possibly go wrong? Look at how well this type of recruiting strategy has worked for Geelong.

Oh!

True it'd be shitzen houzen to finish in the top 4 and go to Grand Finals and prelims EVERY FECKING YEAR. Poor Geelong

Maybe they could take tips from us??? Hehehehe

Laugh all you like but Geelong in recent seasons has chosen to top-up with ageing stars in belief it could squeeze out another flag. That has not worked, has it? Do you reckon they will get lucky with this strategy in 2022?

I keep saying if Geelong wore red, white and black guernseys the media pile-on would stretch beyond our imaginations.

[saynta]

would expect us to pick up another ready made tall defender, having discarded Carlisle and Clav.
I assume they have someone in mind

Dan Talia maybe?

I wonder

Yeah, get a 30 year-old with injury issues. Far better long term for the Club. What could possibly go wrong? Look at how well this type of recruiting strategy has worked for Geelong.

Oh!

True it'd be shitzen houzen to finish in the top 4 and go to Grand Finals and prelims EVERY FECKING YEAR. Poor Geelong

Maybe they could take tips from us??? Hehehehe

Laugh all you like but Geelong in recent seasons has chosen to top-up with ageing stars in belief it could squeeze out another flag. That has not worked, has it? Do you reckon they will get lucky with this strategy in 2022?

I keep saying if Geelong wore red, white and black guernseys the media pile-on would stretch beyond our imaginations.

So true.

[Zed]

Clav’s best bet would appear to be the SANFL if he wants to find a way back to the AFL.
More mature agers recruited out of there than the VFL

[B.M]

Ryder was 33

Was that a mistake??

[B.M]

I would have retained Clavarino - he’s only 21

Highmore and Wilkie were 22 before they were even drafted

Sharman was 21 - when he was 20 he was playing in the bush with mates

Marshall was 23 before he became a regular

[Saints58]

How about a guy called Leek Alleer 196cm plays in the SANFL for central districts he is a key back and 19 years old could be a option.

[CQ SAINT]

How about a guy called Leek Alleer 196cm plays in the SANFL for central districts he is a key back and 19 years old could be a option.

You'd imagine given our recent stocks from SA, the club would be well aware of him. Looks a fantastic intercept mark, but can he wrestle gorillas.

[B.M]

Prefer Alir Alir

[Impatient Sainter]

Earlier this year watching the VFL I thought Clavarino was miles off, but then something clicked and he started taking the huge intercept marks he was recruited for. Shortly after he got his chance to debut and he did look shaky at times, but who doesnt in their earlier games. I like others thought we saw enough for him to be given another year.

We are not at the club and dont know what his work ethic was like, but I hope Gaggs has a better replacement in line after his delisting?

[Saints58]

I agree with you IS its easy to cut someone but its a lot harder to get a replacement how many times did we get caught out due to our undersize CHB it cost us games which it shouldn't have.
We only have Dougal in Defence over 195 now which when you come up against 200cm key forwards who are big bodied wilkie doesn't cut it as much as I like him.
We knew what we were getting with Cav 1 more year until we find a replacement and if it didn't work well cut him.

[SAINT-LEE]

would expect us to pick up another ready made tall defender, having discarded Carlisle and Clav.
I assume they have someone in mind

Dan Talia maybe?

I wonder

Yeah, get a 30 year-old with injury issues. Far better long term for the Club. What could possibly go wrong? Look at how well this type of recruiting strategy has worked for Geelong.

Oh!

True it'd be shitzen houzen to finish in the top 4 and go to Grand Finals and prelims EVERY FECKING YEAR. Poor Geelong

Maybe they could take tips from us??? Hehehehe

Laugh all you like but Geelong in recent seasons has chosen to top-up with ageing stars in belief it could squeeze out another flag. That has not worked, has it? Do you reckon they will get lucky with this strategy in 2022?

I keep saying if Geelong wore red, white and black guernseys the media pile-on would stretch beyond our imaginations.

My only point is whatever they're doing I wish we had their Success. I'd take a failed prelim over a sad season anyday

[Trev from the Bush]

would expect us to pick up another ready made tall defender, having discarded Carlisle and Clav.
I assume they have someone in mind

Dan Talia maybe?

I wonder

Yeah, get a 30 year-old with injury issues. Far better long term for the Club. What could possibly go wrong? Look at how well this type of recruiting strategy has worked for Geelong.

Oh!

True it'd be shitzen houzen to finish in the top 4 and go to Grand Finals and prelims EVERY FECKING YEAR. Poor Geelong

Maybe they could take tips from us??? Hehehehe

Laugh all you like but Geelong in recent seasons has chosen to top-up with ageing stars in belief it could squeeze out another flag. That has not worked, has it? Do you reckon they will get lucky with this strategy in 2022?

I keep saying if Geelong wore red, white and black guernseys the media pile-on would stretch beyond our imaginations.

My only point is whatever they're doing I wish we had their Success. I'd take a failed prelim over a sad season anyday

Cat Lee sounds catchy.

[SAINT-LEE]

would expect us to pick up another ready made tall defender, having discarded Carlisle and Clav.
I assume they have someone in mind

Dan Talia maybe?

I wonder

Yeah, get a 30 year-old with injury issues. Far better long term for the Club. What could possibly go wrong? Look at how well this type of recruiting strategy has worked for Geelong.

Oh!

True it'd be shitzen houzen to finish in the top 4 and go to Grand Finals and prelims EVERY FECKING YEAR. Poor Geelong

Maybe they could take tips from us??? Hehehehe

Laugh all you like but Geelong in recent seasons has chosen to top-up with ageing stars in belief it could squeeze out another flag. That has not worked, has it? Do you reckon they will get lucky with this strategy in 2022?

I keep saying if Geelong wore red, white and black guernseys the media pile-on would stretch beyond our imaginations.

My only point is whatever they're doing I wish we had their Success. I'd take a failed prelim over a sad season anyday

Cat Lee sounds catchy.

Don't favor the Cats but when Frank Costa brought Character First into the club, everyone and everything changed. People weren't perfect but the culture was transformed and they've been legendary ever since.

I hate them there's no doubt, but how can anyone see their success and think they'd NOT want the same?

Read a b.s. article grading Cats season... All these experts gave them an "F". Get to a prelim and you get an F.

Go figure.