The Grand Final - who'll win and why

[saynta]

Yes, Jarman but Allen too. He kicked 4 goals didn't he? A first for him.

I have much more of an issue with Shane Ellen kicking 5 than Jarman. Ellen hadn’t kicked a goal all year, how can you let him kick five in a game?

Yeah. I should have looked it up. It was Shane Ellen that I was referring too. And yes it was 5 goals.

Might upset some but I personally was glad Shanahan never played for the saints again?
.

[remboy]

Yes, Jarman but Allen too. He kicked 4 goals didn't he? A first for him.

I have much more of an issue with Shane Ellen kicking 5 than Jarman. Ellen hadn’t kicked a goal all year, how can you let him kick five in a game?

Yeah. I should have looked it up. It was Shane Ellen thatI I was referring too. And yes it was 5 goals.

Might upset some but I personally was glad Shanahan never played for the saints again?
.

Shanahan was the wrong matchup. They should have made a change, but I don’t blame him for that.

[saynta]

Yes, Jarman but Allen too. He kicked 4 goals didn't he? A first for him.

I have much more of an issue with Shane Ellen kicking 5 than Jarman. Ellen hadn’t kicked a goal all year, how can you let him kick five in a game?

Yeah. I should have looked it up. It was Shane Ellen thatI I was referring too. And yes it was 5 goals.

Might upset some but I personally was glad Shanahan never played for the saints again?
.

Shanahan was the wrong matchup. They should have made a change, but I don’t blame him for that.

He wasn't good enough, quick enough or skilled enough to match it with the half wit, ,I'm afraid.

Blame the coach.

[saynta]

Yes, Jarman but Allen too. He kicked 4 goals didn't he? A first for him.

I have much more of an issue with Shane Ellen kicking 5 than Jarman. Ellen hadn’t kicked a goal all year, how can you let him kick five in a game?

Yeah. I should have looked it up. It was Shane Ellen thatI I was referring too. And yes it was 5 goals.

Might upset some but I personally was glad Shanahan never played for the saints again?
.

Shanahan was the wrong matchup. They should have made a change, but I don’t blame him for that.

He wasn't good enough, quick enough or skilled enough to match it with the half wit, ,I'm afraid.

Blame the coach.

[bangaulegend]

I was at the game Ellen was the trojan horse no one expected him to be a threat so didn't get much attention . He was always a good kick but not that good of player so he was the perfect foil to execute the plan that we didn't see coming. Barry Hall had a blinder in the second quarter & I thought we are going to do this but the Darren Jarman show snuffed out any hope . Shanahan was a goer but no match for Jarman too fast too agile & Mc Clean was outstanding . Our big guns didn't fire Loewe & Winmar (as previously mentioned) Banga & Burky tried their arses off but had no real impact all in all a very sad day & another chapter in the history of the St.Kilda football club

[saynta]

I was at the game Ellen was the trojan horse no one expected him to be a threat so didn't get much attention . He was always a good kick but not that good of player so he was the perfect foil to execute the plan that we didn't see coming. Barry Hall had a blinder in the second quarter & I thought we are going to do this but the Darren Jarman show snuffed out any hope . Shanahan was a goer but no match for Jarman too fast too agile & Mc Clean was outstanding . Our big guns didn't fire Loewe & Winmar (as previously mentioned) Banga & Burky tried their arses off but had no real impact all in all a very sad day & another chapter in the history of the St.Kilda football club

Yeah. I was there too. One of my daughters stayed on the phone until she got through after they decided to release a few thousand MCG members seats in the old Olympic stand to the general public.

I left as soon as the siren blew,. I remember turning round to see a young Saints supporter with tears streaming down her cheeks

I told her not to be so sad and that we would win next year. Silly me.

One of the worst days of my life.

I have been to,all the losing grand finals unfortunately.

[bangaulegend]

I was at the game Ellen was the trojan horse no one expected him to be a threat so didn't get much attention . He was always a good kick but not that good of player so he was the perfect foil to execute the plan that we didn't see coming. Barry Hall had a blinder in the second quarter & I thought we are going to do this but the Darren Jarman show snuffed out any hope . Shanahan was a goer but no match for Jarman too fast too agile & Mc Clean was outstanding . Our big guns didn't fire Loewe & Winmar (as previously mentioned) Banga & Burky tried their arses off but had no real impact all in all a very sad day & another chapter in the history of the St.Kilda football club

Yeah. I was there too. One of my daughters stayed on the phone until she got through after they decided to release a few thousand MCG members seats in the old Olympic stand to the general public.

I left as soon as the siren blew,. I remember turning round to see a young Saints supporter with tears streaming down her cheeks

I told her not to be so sad and that we would win next year. Silly me.

One of the worst days of my life.

I have been to,all the losing grand finals unfortunately.

But you went to a winning one mate so you are lucky I don't think I will ever get to see the Saints hold up the cup but still hopeful

[bangaulegend]

I was at the game Ellen was the trojan horse no one expected him to be a threat so didn't get much attention . He was always a good kick but not that good of player so he was the perfect foil to execute the plan that we didn't see coming. Barry Hall had a blinder in the second quarter & I thought we are going to do this but the Darren Jarman show snuffed out any hope . Shanahan was a goer but no match for Jarman too fast too agile & Mc Clean was outstanding . Our big guns didn't fire Loewe & Winmar (as previously mentioned) Banga & Burky tried their arses off but had no real impact all in all a very sad day & another chapter in the history of the St.Kilda football club

I meant McCleod not Mc Clean

[samuraisaint]

I think Melbourne will win it.
Stronger in the ruck department and their backline is very solid.
They have a surplus of forwards, and it could be the day that Brown cements his legacy.

As far as our Grand Finals go, 1997 really came out of nowhere - a young talented list, who after a month of the season were stone motherless last with one win and four losses out of five matches, but by the end of the season finished on top for the first time since 1965 and a month later were playing off in the Big Dance for the first time since 1971.

2009 was a surprise. The year before in 2008 we lost two of our three finals by more than nine goals and only won the other because Collingwood issued club suspensions to their best players for a late night incident. And yet in 2009 we won our first 19 games, finished on top for the first time since 1997 and played off in the Grand Final again for the first time since 1997. Like '97 we found ourselves ahead at half time. but we failed to kick a goal in the last quarter and lost.

2010 was the only time in my life I actually thought we'd win the premiership. A rushed point on the line, a brilliant mark and goal by Goddard, a brilliant goal by Lenny, and the ball bouncing away from Milney, and then inexplicably not turning up the next week for the replay.

Although I think Melbourne will win it, if the Bulldogs do salute, and maybe even if they don't, then hopefully we can use that, like North Melbourne used us winning ours, to put the steps in place so that we can get those extra goals in a last quarter and finally win our second Grand Final.

[minneapolis]

Footscray will unexpectedly beat Melbourne to repeat the 1954 Grand Final.

[saynta]

I’ve never liked Melbourne, and my feeling goes back to the late ‘60s. They seem to be seen as some sort of sentimental favourite, but not in my mind.

There appears to be a fair bit of triumphalism among Demons supporters around town, which is always annoying, and surely has to be tempting fate. Saints fans would know not to do it.

Added to this, it seems that suppliers are running out of Melbourne scarves, beanies etc. Wouldn’t happen if it was us; we already own all that stuff.

Hoping for a narrow Dogs win.

Me either. Melbourne won in 1964 and came into 1965 c**k a hoop. Won their first 6 games from memory, before coming across the saints in a game at the MCG. I remember it well having flown across from Launceston for the match.

That was the game where the Saints swapped their two key position players with Howell lining up at full forward and Bob Murray at full back.

The saints won that game easily and went on to play in a grand final while the down hill skiers were relegated to the wilderness for the next 50 odd years, I also came across for that game too. Unfortunately.

I remember flying back to Tassie after we lost that grannie and running into the doc at the airport. We were both pretty down, sad even.

My hatred goes back years before 1965 when we were a bottom side and we beat the dees by a point . A nephew of big Bob Johnston abused me outside the Civic theater, where I was selling the sporting globe, for following a team of spoilers. He really begrudged the saints for the win. Said we were losers.

I have never forgotten or forgiven.

Bump

I said the Dees had won their first 6 games. Sorry it was 8 straight wins.

From the age.com.au

"WHAT HAPPENED IN 1965?

It’s still not clear, even to those who were there. After winning the 1964 flag with an ageing team, the Demons began 1965 with eight straight wins before a shock 10-goal loss to St Kilda. Five weeks later, Smith was at home in Pascoe Vale on a Friday night, about to watch a movie, when a letter arrived by courier to tell him he was sacked. Though there had been some strain between Smith and the administration that week, no one foresaw this."

Shouldn't have been much of a shock as the Saints were minor premiers that year.

[samuraisaint]

I’ve never liked Melbourne, and my feeling goes back to the late ‘60s. They seem to be seen as some sort of sentimental favourite, but not in my mind.

There appears to be a fair bit of triumphalism among Demons supporters around town, which is always annoying, and surely has to be tempting fate. Saints fans would know not to do it.

Added to this, it seems that suppliers are running out of Melbourne scarves, beanies etc. Wouldn’t happen if it was us; we already own all that stuff.

Hoping for a narrow Dogs win.

Me either. Melbourne won in 1964 and came into 1965 c**k a hoop. Won their first 6 games from memory, before coming across the saints in a game at the MCG. I remember it well having flown across from Launceston for the match.

That was the game where the Saints swapped their two key position players with Howell lining up at full forward and Bob Murray at full back.

The saints won that game easily and went on to play in a grand final while the down hill skiers were relegated to the wilderness for the next 50 odd years, I also came across for that game too. Unfortunately.

I remember flying back to Tassie after we lost that grannie and running into the doc at the airport. We were both pretty down, sad even.

My hatred goes back years before 1965 when we were a bottom side and we beat the dees by a point . A nephew of big Bob Johnston abused me outside the Civic theater, where I was selling the sporting globe, for following a team of spoilers. He really begrudged the saints for the win. Said we were losers.

I have never forgotten or forgiven.

Bump

I said the Dees had won there first 6 games, Sorry it was 8 straight wins.

From the age.com.au

"WHAT HAPPENED IN 1965?

It’s still not clear, even to those who were there. After winning the 1964 flag with an ageing team, the Demons began 1965 with eight straight wins before a shock 10-goal loss to St Kilda. Five weeks later, Smith was at home in Pascoe Vale on a Friday night, about to watch a movie, when a letter arrived by courier to tell him he was sacked. Though there had been some strain between Smith and the administration that week, no one foresaw this."

Shouldn't have been much of a shock as the Saints were minor premiers that year.

My old man told me that that game in 1965 was the game that started building towards the '66 Flag, as that was the first time Bob Murray played at Full Back.

[saynta]

I’ve never liked Melbourne, and my feeling goes back to the late ‘60s. They seem to be seen as some sort of sentimental favourite, but not in my mind.

There appears to be a fair bit of triumphalism among Demons supporters around town, which is always annoying, and surely has to be tempting fate. Saints fans would know not to do it.

Added to this, it seems that suppliers are running out of Melbourne scarves, beanies etc. Wouldn’t happen if it was us; we already own all that stuff.

Hoping for a narrow Dogs win.

Me either. Melbourne won in 1964 and came into 1965 c**k a hoop. Won their first 6 games from memory, before coming across the saints in a game at the MCG. I remember it well having flown across from Launceston for the match.

That was the game where the Saints swapped their two key position players with Howell lining up at full forward and Bob Murray at full back.

The saints won that game easily and went on to play in a grand final while the down hill skiers were relegated to the wilderness for the next 50 odd years, I also came across for that game too. Unfortunately.

I remember flying back to Tassie after we lost that grannie and running into the doc at the airport. We were both pretty down, sad even.

My hatred goes back years before 1965 when we were a bottom side and we beat the dees by a point . A nephew of big Bob Johnston abused me outside the Civic theater, where I was selling the sporting globe, for following a team of spoilers. He really begrudged the saints for the win. Said we were losers.

I have never forgotten or forgiven.

Bump

I said the Dees had won there first 6 games, Sorry it was 8 straight wins.

From the age.com.au

"WHAT HAPPENED IN 1965?

It’s still not clear, even to those who were there. After winning the 1964 flag with an ageing team, the Demons began 1965 with eight straight wins before a shock 10-goal loss to St Kilda. Five weeks later, Smith was at home in Pascoe Vale on a Friday night, about to watch a movie, when a letter arrived by courier to tell him he was sacked. Though there had been some strain between Smith and the administration that week, no one foresaw this."

Shouldn't have been much of a shock as the Saints were minor premiers that year.

My old man told me that that game in 1965 was the game that started building towards the '66 Flag, as that was the first time Bob Murray played at Full Back.

Yes it certainly was. Both Murray and Griffith were recruited as forwards but ended up playing in the back half. But whenever Griffith played in the centre he stared. Didn't get many opportunities there because of Stewart.

[Wayne42]

If Simon Goodwin is still ill on Grand Final day then Richo might have to take over.

[Sanctorum]

If the umpires have anything to do with it then Footscray will win.

As others have said, the umpires have given the Dogs a armchair ride all of this year, as revealed in the stats:

503 FF v 420 FA, which is a staggering difference.

In round 19 when the Dogs beat Melbourne they had 25 FF v 11 FA - that's just not right.

Clayton Oliver in particular has given a lot of frees away at stoppages this year so he needs to work on that if the Demons are going to have a chance.

I hope the head of the AFLs umpiring department (Dan Richardson) as well as the coach (Michaek Jennings) take a close at these stats and instruct the field umpires to be far more even-handed on Saturday night.

[magnifisaint]

I hope it's a draw. Well it will be the 1st GF to go into extra time. Melbourne will win.

[Trev from the Bush]

Right. Physical fitness shouldn't be an issue going into the game, mental fitness may be though. My observations over the past two weeks suggest the Dees may have been taking a sip of their own bathwater. I heard Mike Sheehan interviewed on ABC radio last weekend, he's a lifelong Demon supporter. He made some interesting points; if Melbourne play up to their Preliminary Final form they will win. If they don't play to that standard they have to get over a very, very good opposition.

The Dogs won three games in three weeks in three states. Given last week was a bye, not having the double chance is no penalty. The Demons have won two from two and are now in the big game with another week off between games. Help or hindrance?

The Dogs didn't risk Keath and Weightman in the Prelim. On paper, those two missing from the team made Port Adelaide appear unbeatable. Ha! They are fit and their inclusion gives the Dogs a huge boost.

It's the Sons of the 'Scray for me. They've even their before and have a much better team now. I feel for Josh Bruce, hard cheese mate, but your move to Whitten Oval has worked for both clubs. And good luck to Bevo who I considered a mulleted knob when he played for both the Dogs and Dees but turned into a gem with the Saints.

Whoever wins the "We should have picked the Bont, not Billings" and the "Why Paddy, why not Petracca" revisionists will be in their element. I'll just have more party pies and another drink. Enjoy the game!

[Josh Battle]

I think Melbourne has the best recruit of 2021 and that person is not going to take the field

Chocco Williams has made a huge difference. They guy deserves his own senior coaching gig, but I’m not sure if he has the drive and commitment or the hunger to take the reigns at another club at his age right now.

He has pushed and driven and motivated and prepared the Melbourne boys for this day. His leadership also complements Goodwins style and I think their whole coaching list and playing list has a wealth of leadership. In contrast, I think at the Dogs that a lot rides on Bevo and I’m not sure if his genius alone is going to be enough to overcome the powerhouse that is the Melbourne team and the Melbourne leaders

I think with Gawn, Viney, Lever and May (in the backline) and Benny Brown in the forward line along with the maturity of guys like Oliver and Petracca that Melbourne are ready to perform at their best and I think they will have more players playing to their potential than the Dogs

The Bullys have been admirable (actually, they’ve been brilliant so far) but I think Melbourne will win in a close game

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

I was at the game Ellen was the trojan horse no one expected him to be a threat so didn't get much attention . He was always a good kick but not that good of player so he was the perfect foil to execute the plan that we didn't see coming. Barry Hall had a blinder in the second quarter & I thought we are going to do this but the Darren Jarman show snuffed out any hope . Shanahan was a goer but no match for Jarman too fast too agile & Mc Clean was outstanding . Our big guns didn't fire Loewe & Winmar (as previously mentioned) Banga & Burky tried their arses off but had no real impact all in all a very sad day & another chapter in the history of the St.Kilda football club

Yeah. I was there too. One of my daughters stayed on the phone until she got through after they decided to release a few thousand MCG members seats in the old Olympic stand to the general public.

I left as soon as the siren blew,. I remember turning round to see a young Saints supporter with tears streaming down her cheeks

I told her not to be so sad and that we would win next year. Silly me.

One of the worst days of my life.

I have been to,all the losing grand finals unfortunately.

But you went to a winning one mate so you are lucky I don't think I will ever get to see the Saints hold up the cup but still hopeful

I’ve given up any hope now after 97,09 and 10. I’m 45 actually today on grand final day and I’ve pretty much conceded I won’t ever see a flag. It’s just easier that way!

[minneapolis]

Bevo is a master and will out-coach Melb.

Melbourne said "we just need to play our own game". If they do that when they are losing - look out!

Doggies by 4 goals.

[spert]

I was at the game Ellen was the trojan horse no one expected him to be a threat so didn't get much attention . He was always a good kick but not that good of player so he was the perfect foil to execute the plan that we didn't see coming. Barry Hall had a blinder in the second quarter & I thought we are going to do this but the Darren Jarman show snuffed out any hope . Shanahan was a goer but no match for Jarman too fast too agile & Mc Clean was outstanding . Our big guns didn't fire Loewe & Winmar (as previously mentioned) Banga & Burky tried their arses off but had no real impact all in all a very sad day & another chapter in the history of the St.Kilda football club

We went into that game without our key rucks, and the Crows rucks dominated.

[spert]

I was at the game Ellen was the trojan horse no one expected him to be a threat so didn't get much attention . He was always a good kick but not that good of player so he was the perfect foil to execute the plan that we didn't see coming. Barry Hall had a blinder in the second quarter & I thought we are going to do this but the Darren Jarman show snuffed out any hope . Shanahan was a goer but no match for Jarman too fast too agile & Mc Clean was outstanding . Our big guns didn't fire Loewe & Winmar (as previously mentioned) Banga & Burky tried their arses off but had no real impact all in all a very sad day & another chapter in the history of the St.Kilda football club

We went into that '97 game without our key rucks, and Blight knew that his rucks would dominate, so they just kept pumping the ball out at clearances and the rest sadly for us was history. With today's match, Melbourne will win if all their top players have a good day, but if they don't all click, the the Dogs will win as they are more balanced across the field.

[spert]

I was at the game Ellen was the trojan horse no one expected him to be a threat so didn't get much attention . He was always a good kick but not that good of player so he was the perfect foil to execute the plan that we didn't see coming. Barry Hall had a blinder in the second quarter & I thought we are going to do this but the Darren Jarman show snuffed out any hope . Shanahan was a goer but no match for Jarman too fast too agile & Mc Clean was outstanding . Our big guns didn't fire Loewe & Winmar (as previously mentioned) Banga & Burky tried their arses off but had no real impact all in all a very sad day & another chapter in the history of the St.Kilda football club

We went into that '97 game without our key rucks, and Blight knew that his rucks would dominate, so they just kept pumping the ball out at clearances and the rest sadly for us was history. With today's match, the Dogs will probably win as they are more balanced across the field.

[Sawf]

If anyone has a link to a stream, it would be most appreciated if you could PM it to me!

Thanks in advance!

[perfectionist]

This is heading towards a bath.