TRUE BELIEVER APPEAL PROCESS AND POLL

[saynta]

If you enjoy saints chatter, take a look at bigfootballer sometime… it's like saintsational but with more that 15 people and no personal agenda behind the moderation.

AFL general thread 2021
SS - 63 replies
BF - 8,000 replies

Trade thread 2021
SS - 199 replies
BF - 13,000 replies

A little disingenuous.
I post on both sites and I have no doubt that there are more posts on BigFooty but they tend to be grouped in to large threads.

In the last week by my count there have been 48 active threads on Saintsational and only 20 on BigFooty. Don't you guys care about Roma's kicking or Jack Steele winning the most courageous award?

In my experience, even in active threads on BF, if you could find one, the posts were either colourless, unimaginative, boring or just plain ignorant.

Much prefer SS, even with a few bed bugs.

[st.byron]

You may be unaware of the process which led us here, but Simon isn't merely following 'best practice' the bloke took over, wrote and enacted his own set of rules based on his personal values, why is he moderating on rules that no-one even asked him to write in the first place?

What is the point in letting a poster continue but making them change their username, an absolute pointless powertrip.

Between implementing a personal agenda and protecting trolls and serial sooks the forum is a shadow of it's former glory.

I only popped in to throw some support behind another long time and highly valued poster who is being subjected to a ridiculous set of rules no-one asked for.

I won't be involved regularly while the place is held hostage.

Simon barely posts here so whats the vested interest? Hand it back mate, enough's enough.

I disagree with a lot of what you've said there Dragit.

When I came on here in 2004 and for many years afterwards the place was a dick swinging competition, pretty much every thread. Abuse - nasty abuse - and bullying was rife. It was horrible. Yep there were more 'characters', more 'entertainment', but a lot more trauma, abuse and discord. What qualifies as 'crossing the line' today wouldn't even have rated a mention some years ago.

The process of letting a poster continue but making them change their Nic arose during the evolution of the site from a cyber warrior free for all into what it is now. It was around 2016. There was clearly a need for the bullying and abuse to stop, but at the same time there was - and speaking from my 3.5 years experience as a mod from 2015 - 2018 - a genuine desire to see the best in people and give them another chance. This was in my experience BFUSA's intention. It had nothing to do with a power trip. "Okay, so and so poster has f***** up again. For the 20th time. What do we do?
A. Slap them on the wrist and let them continue. B. Ban them permanently. C. Give them a chance to start afresh with a different Nic and negotiated conditions/boundaries on participation.

This was also a time when people who were banned were able to just re-register with a new Nic and just carry on as before. It was some time before IP address bans came into use and even then, VPN's rendered them effectively useless if a poster really was intent on coming back on.

Yep I understand that you could see the rules as implementing a personal agenda - but what I ask you is what is the alternative?
How could rules and voluntary moderating be framed differently for an anonymous online forum such as this?
Collective decision making? How else could it happen? And anyone who is in a position to make decisions as an admin or moderator is automatically open to accusations of favouritism and power tripping.

I can also say from my experience as a mod that there is a lot of unseen work that goes on. PM"s, reading posts and discussions with other mods and posters that aren't public take up a good deal of time. I can speak only from my own experience, but I can say that in my time as a mod, from many many PM discussions and emails, I found BFUSA has a genuine intention to make the forum a better place. I didn't find any power tripping or favouritism. It's generally a thankless task, so whilst others might disagree with me, I think BFUSA has done an excellent job in eradicating bullying and abuse.

And I can really understand why he might have come to the place of the rules are the rules and permanent means permanent. There was a hell of a lot of time and energy expended on negotiating and communicating with people who broke the rules and then wanted to argue / justify / complain about it.

He's human. He might make some mistakes, implement some rules or make some decisions that I or others don't agree with, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And I'm curious to know, just when was the site in its' 'former glory' days that you refer to? What years were they? Prior to 2004?

Cheers.

I respect your opinion here mate.

Simon may be a ripping bloke with good intentions but that does not necessarily mean that he is the right fit to run this forum unless it's into the ground.

This poll shines a light on the absurdity of the state of things - "The choice between two types of permanent bans" on the back of posting content in the wrong type of thread…

If the aim of the site take over was to revitalize the place, then I reckon we can stick a fork in it, the last game day thread says it all… I can see one or two posters who have joined in the last 3 years, possibly old banned posters who have re-registered anyway.

People vote with their feet and this place is like an old abandoned amusement park, moderated like a kindergarten only the creepiest pedos are protected.

All the best.

Okay mate I can see you have a very different view. Am curious to know when was it that SS was in its heyday for you? The time you referred to as its glory days?

[Wayne42]

He might come back to the forum as Dis Believer.

[Ghost Like]

I'd go with Beggars Belief personally.

[Dave McNamara]

A few fellow posters have raised some good points as to why this place is a better place now than in the past. And in some ways it certainly is. So kudos. But overall, this doesn't seem to be the impression being expressed by 'the numbers'.


Glory days?
Pre about Sept 2011. The decline started about then IMHO.



Numbers? SS vs Big Flaccid?
I'm not sure what "tend to be grouped in to large threads" means, but out of interest I did have a quick look (not quick enough ) at the numbers for the respective Round 23 match day threads. Thats...
Scary.
Ominous.
Damning even.

Those numbers used to be pretty much the opposite way around.



SS now 'more friendly'?
In no particular order...
Dan Warna.
Sainter K. (IMHO, it would be nice if certain poster who has relatively recently returned, apologised for issuing the 'travel and what to do when you get there' advice. I know you're big enough to do so. Besides, I mean, we all lose-it and 'say stuff'... that's a bloody big club.)
Grumpy One.
That surfer dude.
Nymeria.
Con G.
bungiton
Satchmo
aok
barks4eva
back pocket
the boys from gronggrong
cowboy18
jeff dunne
The Clarkys.
City West and his 'connections'.
The good Doctor Spaceman.
Joffa Burns.
Joffaboy.
TotheTop
Bakes Fan
Krabby
Holly Vallance
Spelly
Simon Templar. (Even though you beat me to the nick I wanted.)
Cairnsman.
Rodger Fox.
Teddy.
Pluggsy.
Lazar
Linton Lodger/ Captain Marvel
HIt the Boundary
Enrico
Big Balls.
Bob Murray.
Grant Thomas.
Borat.
RogerWA.
Heaps more whom I've temporarily (shamefully ) forgotten.

These are just some of the poster nics we're missing, for whatever reason/s. (Well, I'm missing them.)



So, in summary. No. Regardless of the well meaning intentions. I do not believe this site is better now overall. And Stalkerbook and Big Flotsam are not alternatives to this place!

So please, don't let this community slowly wither and die. Let new members in. (What team ever stops 'recruiting?) Let posters maintain their iconic nic. And, don't a waste of all the effort, time and (yes) love that Simon has put in so far.

Thank you.

- Dave.





PS: Simon. Don't forget that there are many many of your fellow Saintsationalist who are ready and willing to chip-in to help out with the time and $$$ required to keep this show running. You aren't alone here. You don't have to shoulder all of the responsibility all on your own.

[asiu]

thanx everyone

PS: Simon. Don't forget that there are many many of your fellow Saintsationalist who are ready and willing to chip-in to help out with the time and $$$ required to keep this show running. You aren't alone here. You don't have to shoulder all of the responsibility all on your own.

2nd that


'n thanx

go us
go saints

[BackFromUSA]

Tomorrow True Believer can write to saintsationalentry@gmail.com to arrange his re-admission under a new nic.

[asiu]

post match interview

[The Fireman]

welcome back "True Believer"

[Ghost Like]

TB or not TB, congratulations! Fingers crossed they do return

[Dis Believer]

Hi all, I'm back.

A big thank you to all those that supported via their votes, and I must say, I was very touched by the strong support that many also expressed directly via posts. That was very unexpected and I greatly appreciate it. Don't be misled by this maudlin display of public emotion, I am still the same demanding, hard-arsed Death Metaller, but I think you all earned the right to see me expose my soft, gooey innards !!!

[saynta]

Hi all, I'm back.

A big thank you to all those that supported via their votes, and I must say, I was very touched by the strong support that many also expressed directly via posts. That was very unexpected and I greatly appreciate it. Don't be misled by this maudlin display of public emotion, I am still the same demanding, hard-arsed Death Metaller, but I think you all earned the right to see me expose my soft, gooey innards !!!

Welcome back mate. A wrong has been righted.

[ace]

There are lots of us who have become more cranky over the last 18 months.
I know I have.
I can't say why because that would make this a political post.
But I can say that getting cranky is fully justified and so should be taken into account in determining penalties.

[desertsaint]

Hi all, I'm back.

A big thank you to all those that supported via their votes, and I must say, I was very touched by the strong support that many also expressed directly via posts. That was very unexpected and I greatly appreciate it. Don't be misled by this maudlin display of public emotion, I am still the same demanding, hard-arsed Death Metaller, but I think you all earned the right to see me expose my soft, gooey innards !!!

Allright, allright. Get back in your box.

[asiu]

[The Fireman]

To the magnificent 7.

Suffer in your jocks

[Dis Believer]

To the magnificent 7.

Suffer in your jocks

Is that a direct quote from "The Castle"....???

[The Fireman]

To the magnificent 7.

Suffer in your jocks

Is that a direct quote from "The Castle"....???

Yes it True Believer

[Wayne42]

Hi all, I'm back.

A big thank you to all those that supported via their votes, and I must say, I was very touched by the strong support that many also expressed directly via posts. That was very unexpected and I greatly appreciate it. Don't be misled by this maudlin display of public emotion, I am still the same demanding, hard-arsed Death Metaller, but I think you all earned the right to see me expose my soft, gooey innards !!!

Good name

[saynta]

There are lots of us who have become more cranky over the last 18 months.
I know I have.
I can't say why because that would make this a political post.
But I can say that getting cranky is fully justified and so should be taken into account in determining penalties.

Know the feeling mate.

[Vortex]

Just a footnote to this ridiculous event.

If ever the SS community wanted to take over control of SS then all that is needed is for the community to register a Web address called saintsatuonal.com.au and come up with the very small funds required to run the site.

And Simon is booted out of tbe house.

It's that easy.

[Ghost Like]

Just a footnote to this ridiculous event.

If ever the SS community wanted to take over control of SS then all that is needed is for the community to register a Web address called saintsatuonal.com.au and come up with the very small funds required to run the site.

And Simon is booted out of tbe house.

It's that easy.

Why?

I really cannot see the point in that. There are already other places people can. I do not agree with the reason TB got the Khyber but I respect the work of BfUSA, his efforts with this site and the fact he allowed this appeal process to work.

All the others who have been permanently banned had the same opportunity. Some were able to circumvent it before that avenue was cut off.

I'd like to see some like Joffa Burns given the opportunity to return. Many and varied opinions can only make a forum better - if we could only limit the amount of requotes.

[Vortex]

Just a footnote to this ridiculous event.

If ever the SS community wanted to take over control of SS then all that is needed is for the community to register a Web address called saintsatuonal.com.au and come up with the very small funds required to run the site.

And Simon is booted out of tbe house.

It's that easy.

Why?

I really cannot see the point in that. There are already other places people can. I do not agree with the reason TB got the Khyber but I respect the work of BfUSA, his efforts with this site and the fact he allowed this appeal process to work.

All the others who have been permanently banned had the same opportunity. Some were able to circumvent it before that avenue was cut off.

I'd like to see some like Joffa Burns given the opportunity to return. Many and varied opinions can only make a forum better - if we could only limit the amount of requotes.

My answer to your question is also answered by yourself in your last paragraph, and that is so many and varied opinions can return to make the forum better.

I know Simon likes to threaten he can shut this site down whenever he may feel the urge however I just want everyone to know that it would fire back up almost the very next day with the same name and the same look and the same phpBB software. He even makes it sound like it would be doing him a favour so I'd imagine Simon wouldn't care too much if we gave him a permanent ban.

[Ghost Like]

Again Vortex, why? There are other places already that people can go.

Sounds like you want to do it. It all sounds very easy, perhaps you should just do it now, unless you are just testing the waters for a good ol' Fijian style coup.

I'm sure Cairnsman, Highettman and Secret Kiel would enjoy the opportunity to be Generals in a new regime.

[asiu]

so I'd imagine Simon wouldn't care too much if we gave him a permanent ban.

but you do care !!!
(if u are banned)


***

can i just say in relationship to this drift

we all love SS
its 'our place'

simon is one of ours
as i am one of yours


(i'd never be any part of any 'process'
that could be construed as a hostile takeover)

to become
what 'we' fight against , IS THE TRAP.