Grant Thomas

[Teflon]

Does Lucifer have more relevance than God?

Could Satan exist without God the creator

Are the stories and myths true about the devil and is his grip on his disciples more powerful than the love and worship shown to God?

Lyon inherited a team of champions. They made it work because they had to in order to be successful. They believed in him because Not doing so was not an option. Unfortunately he was a failure and the team didn't achieve it's potential

Lmao what’s that make GT then....the false prophet???
Shall keep you in my prayers but I fear it may take a lot of Hail Marys for a fix...

[Teflon]

I'm an atheist by the way

I’ve never had you down as a true believer...

In Ross we trust

[Wayne42]

If it wasn't for GT and Mark Harvey Lyin may well have had an entirely different coaching career because he has NO idea how to build a list.

That's been proven...Twice.

Both clubs he coached so well are still trying to rebuild, years after he sashayed out of them both .

Geez Wayne I had you as a little sharper...
Yes both us and Freo took hits after Lyon left we all know why - we had a crack at our first failed prelim under GT in 04...point is you can’t stay up forever no one can
Ross sashayed out after getting both clubs into GFs
GT ran out while stuffing as much cash from leave entitlements in his pockets as he could... (that he’d agreed to forfeit ...later claiming duress)..all from the man who “ate pressure for breakfast..”

I thought GT got booted out because him and his drug addled mate had a falling out but not just over borrowed money.

GT was better than you like to admit and Ross let the river flow the wrong way when it came to player development.
I think the Cobbler has been cobbled.

Next time you speak to Ross can you tell him what a process is.

[Scollop]

I'm an atheist by the way

I’ve never had you down as a true believer...

In Ross we trust

In years to come when we look back at Rossy and people ask; Is there perhaps one word you could describe him with?

… I don’t think anyone will be saying ‘Trust’

The gullible amongst the flock will always have blind faith

Without any silverware he will just be remembered as a coach failure

[saynta]

Sure R. Lyon has a good coaching record but dated now and arguably he is successful in only limited and rare circumstances.

To find a process beneath him shows insecurity, why not respect it and ace it. Because he thinks he would flunk?

Auditioning for 13 years? But fluffing lines on the big stages?

Lot of bluster Ross any serious offers or crickets?

Poor coaching cost him the flag in 2009 and as a result of losing a disgruntled player, the 2010 flag too.

[saynta]

Do you reckon every player at StK had the same opinion as Roo?

You would only have to talk to Max and Luke Ball to blow that myth sky high.

Some players at Freo obviously disliked Lyon and leopards never change their spots.

[Yorkeys]

Irony being if Ross had developed a deeper list his teams would not have been caught short with a couple of bottom end players who tried hard but were found wanting in the big time.

Conversely GT seemed to give player and team development high priority. I see a lot of race horses are now listed as being trained by people in partnership. Can you picture Ross and GT working together - odd couple, eat your heart out.

I guess no one is perfect, except for Jeansy in '66. But Brett is of course getting there - fingers crossed.

[skeptic]

Sure R. Lyon has a good coaching record but dated now and arguably he is successful in only limited and rare circumstances.

To find a process beneath him shows insecurity, why not respect it and ace it. Because he thinks he would flunk?

Auditioning for 13 years? But fluffing lines on the big stages?

Lot of bluster Ross any serious offers or crickets?

Poor coaching cost him the flag in 2009 and as a result of losing a disgruntled player, the 2010 flag too.

The 2009 GF remains one of the most bizarre coaching performances I reckon I’ve ever seen both in terms of team selection and match day decisions
From going too tall in the wet (with rain forecasted) (out of form King and Gardiner), + Kosi and noting the reports of Roos pre-match injury
Having an out of form Dempster play defensive tagger
Not tagging Chapman
Not having enough run in the middle heightened by the fact that they didn’t believe Luke Ball could run out a game
To benching Ball for the second half
To Dawson over Hudghton (which I know you’re very passionate about though I’m less so)

And so on.

In the day, I saw the Saints dominate the first quarter and Geelong make some absolutely match winning moves in the coaches box to stem the flow and turn it around. Bartel to Hayes was a master stroke. We had no answers.

[Teflon]

If it wasn't for GT and Mark Harvey Lyin may well have had an entirely different coaching career because he has NO idea how to build a list.

That's been proven...Twice.

Both clubs he coached so well are still trying to rebuild, years after he sashayed out of them both .

Geez Wayne I had you as a little sharper...
Yes both us and Freo took hits after Lyon left we all know why - we had a crack at our first failed prelim under GT in 04...point is you can’t stay up forever no one can
Ross sashayed out after getting both clubs into GFs
GT ran out while stuffing as much cash from leave entitlements in his pockets as he could... (that he’d agreed to forfeit ...later claiming duress)..all from the man who “ate pressure for breakfast..”

I thought GT got booted out because him and his drug addled mate had a falling out but not just over borrowed money.

GT was better than you like to admit and Ross let the river flow the wrong way when it came to player development.
I think the Cobbler has been cobbled.

Next time you speak to Ross can you tell him what a process is.

I’ll get Grant to take him through the process he went through.....think they call it “the Putin” method...

[Teflon]

I'm an atheist by the way

I’ve never had you down as a true believer...

In Ross we trust

In years to come when we look back at Rossy and people ask; Is there perhaps one word you could describe him with?

… I don’t think anyone will be saying ‘Trust’

The gullible amongst the flock will always have blind faith

Without any silverware he will just be remembered as a coach failure

And yet still with a better coaching record than “GT”
The other bloke with “trust” issues ?????
I once heard him called Cornflakes cause he was turfed out of so many coaches boxes ...all cause he was so trustworthy....

[Teflon]

Do you reckon every player at StK had the same opinion as Roo?

You would only have to talk to Max and Luke Ball to blow that myth sky high.

Some players at Freo obviously disliked Lyon and leopards never change their spots.

Like Ball Collingwood Premiership player who gives a rats toss bag what he thinks???

[Teflon]

Sure R. Lyon has a good coaching record but dated now and arguably he is successful in only limited and rare circumstances.

To find a process beneath him shows insecurity, why not respect it and ace it. Because he thinks he would flunk?

Auditioning for 13 years? But fluffing lines on the big stages?

Lot of bluster Ross any serious offers or crickets?

Poor coaching cost him the flag in 2009 and as a result of losing a disgruntled player, the 2010 flag too.

The 2009 GF remains one of the most bizarre coaching performances I reckon I’ve ever seen both in terms of team selection and match day decisions
From going too tall in the wet (with rain forecasted) (out of form King and Gardiner), + Kosi and noting the reports of Roos pre-match injury
Having an out of form Dempster play defensive tagger
Not tagging Chapman
Not having enough run in the middle heightened by the fact that they didn’t believe Luke Ball could run out a game
To benching Ball for the second half
To Dawson over Hudghton (which I know you’re very passionate about though I’m less so)

And so on.

In the day, I saw the Saints dominate the first quarter and Geelong make some absolutely match winning moves in the coaches box to stem the flow and turn it around. Bartel to Hayes was a master stroke. We had no answers.

Nice re-write but wrong
Did you actually watch the game??
Where you there ? I was
What a load of nonsense to suggest we lost the match due to coaching
We had and were ALL over Geelong in the first half and should have been 5/6 goals in front
To completely ignore the terrible skill execution of players to kick goals when it mattered is the worst analysis of the game I’ve ever read
I’d argue had players , like Schneider in the goal square !,taken their chances the Cats were not coming back
Here’s a little snippet out the paper just refresh your clearly weary memory of what happened on that day:

The Saints probably should have won. They laid more tackles than any side in the history of the game. They had 19 more inside-50s. They butchered a succession of easy shots.


I don’t mind the fact you hate Ross but let’s not re-write history with poorly thought through dribble.
We won 19-0 in 2019 went into that GF with Riewoldt having done a hip flexor before the match and still should’ve won it.
Please stop making stuff up.
Now....let’s analyse those GT Grand Final losses...

[skeptic]

Sure R. Lyon has a good coaching record but dated now and arguably he is successful in only limited and rare circumstances.

To find a process beneath him shows insecurity, why not respect it and ace it. Because he thinks he would flunk?

Auditioning for 13 years? But fluffing lines on the big stages?

Lot of bluster Ross any serious offers or crickets?

Poor coaching cost him the flag in 2009 and as a result of losing a disgruntled player, the 2010 flag too.

The 2009 GF remains one of the most bizarre coaching performances I reckon I’ve ever seen both in terms of team selection and match day decisions
From going too tall in the wet (with rain forecasted) (out of form King and Gardiner), + Kosi and noting the reports of Roos pre-match injury
Having an out of form Dempster play defensive tagger
Not tagging Chapman
Not having enough run in the middle heightened by the fact that they didn’t believe Luke Ball could run out a game
To benching Ball for the second half
To Dawson over Hudghton (which I know you’re very passionate about though I’m less so)

And so on.

In the day, I saw the Saints dominate the first quarter and Geelong make some absolutely match winning moves in the coaches box to stem the flow and turn it around. Bartel to Hayes was a master stroke. We had no answers.

Nice re-write but wrong
Did you actually watch the game??
Where you there ? I was
What a load of nonsense to suggest we lost the match due to coaching
We had and were ALL over Geelong in the first half and should have been 5/6 goals in front
To completely ignore the terrible skill execution of players to kick goals when it mattered is the worst analysis of the game I’ve ever read
I’d argue had players , like Schneider in the goal square !,taken their chances the Cats were not coming back
Here’s a little snippet out the paper just refresh your clearly weary memory of what happened on that day:

The Saints probably should have won. They laid more tackles than any side in the history of the game. They had 19 more inside-50s. They butchered a succession of easy shots.


I don’t mind the fact you hate Ross but let’s not re-write history with poorly thought through dribble.
We won 19-0 in 2019 went into that GF with Riewoldt having done a hip flexor before the match and still should’ve won it.
Please stop making stuff up.
Now....let’s analyse those GT Grand Final losses...

I was there...

Now forgive me, but where did I say we lost the game due to coaching?

I said the coaching was poor on the day and I didn’t raise GT.

Yes we failed to execute skills and should have won the game. No argument there. Regardless, the coaching was incredibly poor and we gained no advantage there.

Don’t know what I’ve re-written either

Did Chapman wear a hard tag?
Did an out of form, unestablished Sean Dempster not come in as a defensive forward?
Did Luke Ball not spend the second half predominantly on the bench?

Did we go into the game against a team that chased down a 5-6 goal lead against us 3 months earlier with an out of form King+ Gardiner, an injured Riewoldt and Kosi... plus a midfielder that couldn’t run out the second half (apparently) in a game where rain was forecasted?

How would you rate the coaching effort in that game?
Perhaps you could impress me with the incredible coaching moves that were executed because I’ve listed a bunch of bad ones... or is this a case where RL gets credit for the players dominance but excused for the lack of execution?

[Teflon]

Sure R. Lyon has a good coaching record but dated now and arguably he is successful in only limited and rare circumstances.

To find a process beneath him shows insecurity, why not respect it and ace it. Because he thinks he would flunk?

Auditioning for 13 years? But fluffing lines on the big stages?

Lot of bluster Ross any serious offers or crickets?

Poor coaching cost him the flag in 2009 and as a result of losing a disgruntled player, the 2010 flag too.

The 2009 GF remains one of the most bizarre coaching performances I reckon I’ve ever seen both in terms of team selection and match day decisions
From going too tall in the wet (with rain forecasted) (out of form King and Gardiner), + Kosi and noting the reports of Roos pre-match injury
Having an out of form Dempster play defensive tagger
Not tagging Chapman
Not having enough run in the middle heightened by the fact that they didn’t believe Luke Ball could run out a game
To benching Ball for the second half
To Dawson over Hudghton (which I know you’re very passionate about though I’m less so)

And so on.

In the day, I saw the Saints dominate the first quarter and Geelong make some absolutely match winning moves in the coaches box to stem the flow and turn it around. Bartel to Hayes was a master stroke. We had no answers.

Nice re-write but wrong
Did you actually watch the game??
Where you there ? I was
What a load of nonsense to suggest we lost the match due to coaching
We had and were ALL over Geelong in the first half and should have been 5/6 goals in front
To completely ignore the terrible skill execution of players to kick goals when it mattered is the worst analysis of the game I’ve ever read
I’d argue had players , like Schneider in the goal square !,taken their chances the Cats were not coming back
Here’s a little snippet out the paper just refresh your clearly weary memory of what happened on that day:

The Saints probably should have won. They laid more tackles than any side in the history of the game. They had 19 more inside-50s. They butchered a succession of easy shots.


I don’t mind the fact you hate Ross but let’s not re-write history with poorly thought through dribble.
We won 19-0 in 2019 went into that GF with Riewoldt having done a hip flexor before the match and still should’ve won it.
Please stop making stuff up.
Now....let’s analyse those GT Grand Final losses...

I was there...

Now forgive me, but where did I say we lost the game due to coaching?

I said the coaching was poor on the day and I didn’t raise GT.

Yes we failed to execute skills and should have won the game. No argument there. Regardless, the coaching was incredibly poor and we gained no advantage there.

Don’t know what I’ve re-written either

Did Chapman wear a hard tag?
Did an out of form, unestablished Sean Dempster not come in as a defensive forward?
Did Luke Ball not spend the second half predominantly on the bench?

Did we go into the game against a team that chased down a 5-6 goal lead against us 3 months earlier with an out of form King+ Gardiner, an injured Riewoldt and Kosi... plus a midfielder that couldn’t run out the second half (apparently) in a game where rain was forecasted?

How would you rate the coaching effort in that game?
Perhaps you could impress me with the incredible coaching moves that were executed because I’ve listed a bunch of bad ones... or is this a case where RL gets credit for the players dominance but excused for the lack of execution?

A coaches job is to get his side into the best possible position to win the game
On a wet miserable day with an injured gun in Riewoldt Lyon did more than enough to ensure his players had ample opportunity to win that match - the stats support that.
I knew watching that at half time we had not taken our chances and it would bite - it did
Don’t compare a 6 goal lead under an air conditioned roof at Etihad to a blustery freezing wet MCG where, had we taken our chances, a 5/6 goal cone back was extremely unlikely
Sorry none of those after the fact coaching moves do anything to outweigh the fact that Lyons side , his structures on the day were working....but very established players failed to execute when it mattered and a coach can’t kick the ball for them.
Still though....was at least nice to make it to a GF.....

[skeptic]

Sure R. Lyon has a good coaching record but dated now and arguably he is successful in only limited and rare circumstances.

To find a process beneath him shows insecurity, why not respect it and ace it. Because he thinks he would flunk?

Auditioning for 13 years? But fluffing lines on the big stages?

Lot of bluster Ross any serious offers or crickets?

Poor coaching cost him the flag in 2009 and as a result of losing a disgruntled player, the 2010 flag too.

The 2009 GF remains one of the most bizarre coaching performances I reckon I’ve ever seen both in terms of team selection and match day decisions
From going too tall in the wet (with rain forecasted) (out of form King and Gardiner), + Kosi and noting the reports of Roos pre-match injury
Having an out of form Dempster play defensive tagger
Not tagging Chapman
Not having enough run in the middle heightened by the fact that they didn’t believe Luke Ball could run out a game
To benching Ball for the second half
To Dawson over Hudghton (which I know you’re very passionate about though I’m less so)

And so on.

In the day, I saw the Saints dominate the first quarter and Geelong make some absolutely match winning moves in the coaches box to stem the flow and turn it around. Bartel to Hayes was a master stroke. We had no answers.

Nice re-write but wrong
Did you actually watch the game??
Where you there ? I was
What a load of nonsense to suggest we lost the match due to coaching
We had and were ALL over Geelong in the first half and should have been 5/6 goals in front
To completely ignore the terrible skill execution of players to kick goals when it mattered is the worst analysis of the game I’ve ever read
I’d argue had players , like Schneider in the goal square !,taken their chances the Cats were not coming back
Here’s a little snippet out the paper just refresh your clearly weary memory of what happened on that day:

The Saints probably should have won. They laid more tackles than any side in the history of the game. They had 19 more inside-50s. They butchered a succession of easy shots.


I don’t mind the fact you hate Ross but let’s not re-write history with poorly thought through dribble.
We won 19-0 in 2019 went into that GF with Riewoldt having done a hip flexor before the match and still should’ve won it.
Please stop making stuff up.
Now....let’s analyse those GT Grand Final losses...

I was there...

Now forgive me, but where did I say we lost the game due to coaching?

I said the coaching was poor on the day and I didn’t raise GT.

Yes we failed to execute skills and should have won the game. No argument there. Regardless, the coaching was incredibly poor and we gained no advantage there.

Don’t know what I’ve re-written either

Did Chapman wear a hard tag?
Did an out of form, unestablished Sean Dempster not come in as a defensive forward?
Did Luke Ball not spend the second half predominantly on the bench?

Did we go into the game against a team that chased down a 5-6 goal lead against us 3 months earlier with an out of form King+ Gardiner, an injured Riewoldt and Kosi... plus a midfielder that couldn’t run out the second half (apparently) in a game where rain was forecasted?

How would you rate the coaching effort in that game?
Perhaps you could impress me with the incredible coaching moves that were executed because I’ve listed a bunch of bad ones... or is this a case where RL gets credit for the players dominance but excused for the lack of execution?

A coaches job is to get his side into the best possible position to win the game
On a wet miserable day with an injured gun in Riewoldt Lyon did more than enough to ensure his players had ample opportunity to win that match - the stats support that.
I knew watching that at half time we had not taken our chances and it would bite - it did
Don’t compare a 6 goal lead under an air conditioned roof at Etihad to a blustery freezing wet MCG where, had we taken our chances, a 5/6 goal cone back was extremely unlikely
Sorry none of those after the fact coaching moves do anything to outweigh the fact that Lyons side , his structures on the day were working....but very established players failed to execute when it mattered and a coach can’t kick the ball for them.
Still though....was at least nice to make it to a GF.....

They’re not really after the fact.

I think where I disagree with you is that the Geelong coaches made moves that curbed our dominance over the match... Bartel to Hayes after 1/4 time was a big one. Exploiting the Chapman match up was another.
I don’t think we reacted

And regardless of how you spin it, keeping Luke Ball off the ground after half time was a disastrous and completely bizarre decision. To go from one of the better players in conditions that suited him to shelved without injury IMO pbly did contribute to our inability to put them away.

[Wayne42]

I'm an atheist by the way

I’ve never had you down as a true believer...

In Ross we trust

In years to come when we look back at Rossy and people ask; Is there perhaps one word you could describe him with?

… I don’t think anyone will be saying ‘Trust’

The gullible amongst the flock will always have blind faith

Without any silverware he will just be remembered as a coach failure

And yet still with a better coaching record than “GT”
The other bloke with “trust” issues ?????
I once heard him called Cornflakes cause he was turfed out of so many coaches boxes ...all cause he was so trustworthy....

It was GT's "buddy" Patrick Smith that called him cornflakes.

[Scollop]

I knew watching that at half time we had not taken our chances and it would bite - it did
Don’t compare a 6 goal lead under an air conditioned roof at Etihad to a blustery freezing wet MCG where, had we taken our chances, a 5/6 goal cone back was extremely unlikely


Still though....was at least nice to make it to a GF.....

So we would have been 5-6 goals up at half time if we kicked straight...Are you sure?

Is that 5 to 6 goals guaranteed or could it be maybe 3-4 guaranteed?

Basically...All of your fairy stories belong in a Furphy ad.

Furphy like those make believe, made up myths and legends

Did you ALSO want them to blow the whistle at half time or in your tale would you settle for the 3rd quarter?

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2 ... 90926.html

A game needed to be won in the second half and Rossy made the gullible believe that it was the players bad kicking in the first half that cost us. What about the fact we didn't score a single goal in that last quarter! Well played super coach

The legend of the coach that got us into a GF...what a croc!!

Everyone knows about players being passengers in a game. Well, what about dear ol Rossy. What a passenger of a coach.

What a legend with his 19 home and away wins and his McLelland Trophy

https://www.lbbonline.com/news/furphy-a ... hinkerbell

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Raph Clarke. One of Rossy's "role players".

Scored by pundits as the WOG -- Worst on Ground -- in the 2009 GF.

As if anyone couldn't see it coming.

ANY defender would have been better. Gwilt. Hudghton. Even Maguire.

But you know what?

Every St kilda coach in my lifetime has made bewildering selection decisions.

Every one of them has pet players who inexplicably get a game.

Ratts has Kent, for one.

So I cut Ross some slack. And as I've said elsewhere, he's the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs.

[saynta]

I knew watching that at half time we had not taken our chances and it would bite - it did
Don’t compare a 6 goal lead under an air conditioned roof at Etihad to a blustery freezing wet MCG where, had we taken our chances, a 5/6 goal cone back was extremely unlikely


Still though....was at least nice to make it to a GF.....

So we would have been 5-6 goals up at half time if we kicked straight...Are you sure?

Is that 5 to 6 goals guaranteed or could it be maybe 3-4 guaranteed?

Basically...All of your fairy stories belong in a Furphy ad.

Furphy like those make believe, made up myths and legends

Did you ALSO want them to blow the whistle at half time or in your tale would you settle for the 3rd quarter?

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2 ... 90926.html

A game needed to be won in the second half and Rossy made the gullible believe that it was the players bad kicking in the first half that cost us. What about the fact we didn't score a single goal in that last quarter! Well played super coach

The legend of the coach that got us into a GF...what a croc!!

Everyone knows about players being passengers in a game. Well, what about dear ol Rossy. What a passenger of a coach.

What a legend with his 19 home and away wins and his McLelland Trophy

https://www.lbbonline.com/news/furphy-a ... hinkerbell

When the master coach was asked why he left Ball on the bench in the last quarter, his weak as piss answer was, "I forgot he was there."

And you wonder why I call that miserable s*** "Lyin".

[Scollop]

Raph Clarke. One of Rossy's "role players".

Scored by pundits as the WOG -- Worst on Ground -- in the 2009 GF.

As if anyone couldn't see it coming.

ANY defender would have been better. Gwilt. Hudghton. Even Maguire.

But you know what?

Every St kilda coach in my lifetime has made bewildering selection decisions.

Every one of them has pet players who inexplicably get a game.

Ratts has Kent, for one.

So I cut Ross some slack. And as I've said elsewhere, he's the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs.

Cut him some slack for being a novice - I’m ok with that but what irritated me from Lyon (* at the time) was the scapegoating of our players and trying to pretend that he as senior coach did everything right. He obviously didn’t when you look at the legacy of his time with us and the lost opportunity when we had a team that should have won in 2009

Did you look at the afltables link? What about Luke Ball only playing 46% game time?

What about Rossy thrashing the team to try and win the McLellan cup, meanwhile he’s got both ruckman cooked in the Grand Final and some of our players just couldn’t play at their best even before the finals started?

There was a lack of criticism from the so called experts and zero critical analysis in the media during his time with the Saints. This led to an unhealthy adulation from those within the club and far too many mistakes from Lyon which unfortunately proved very costly.

Once again, we all cut him slack when the team made a Grand Final the following year, but the effort and the results of getting there were not due to Rossy. They were due to the brilliance of the squad and the list that was assembled prior to Ross. The list that had players maturing in the 24-29 year old age bracket. History tells you that you assemble a squad and that should be when they hit their prime

Yeah, Rossy was very clever at deflecting the blame onto the players and looking outward rather than inward?

… ’looking outward rather than inward’

asiu; Do you like it? Does it qualify as a zen type a thing?


* Ross has admitted in interviews in recent years that he had made errors during his early years as senior coach at St Kilda

[asiu]

the 'inner'
creates
the outer

in sane land

[skeptic]

Raph Clarke. One of Rossy's "role players".

Scored by pundits as the WOG -- Worst on Ground -- in the 2009 GF.

As if anyone couldn't see it coming.

ANY defender would have been better. Gwilt. Hudghton. Even Maguire.

But you know what?

Every St kilda coach in my lifetime has made bewildering selection decisions.

Every one of them has pet players who inexplicably get a game.

Ratts has Kent, for one.

So I cut Ross some slack. And as I've said elsewhere, he's the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs.

Cut him some slack for being a novice - I’m ok with that but what irritated me from Lyon (* at the time) was the scapegoating of our players and trying to pretend that he as senior coach did everything right. He obviously didn’t when you look at the legacy of his time with us and the lost opportunity when we had a team that should have won in 2009

Did you look at the afltables link? What about Luke Ball only playing 46% game time?

What about Rossy thrashing the team to try and win the McLellan cup, meanwhile he’s got both ruckman cooked in the Grand Final and some of our players just couldn’t play at their best even before the finals started?

There was a lack of criticism from the so called experts and zero critical analysis in the media during his time with the Saints. This led to an unhealthy adulation from those within the club and far too many mistakes from Lyon which unfortunately proved very costly.

Once again, we all cut him slack when the team made a Grand Final the following year, but the effort and the results of getting there were not due to Rossy. They were due to the brilliance of the squad and the list that was assembled prior to Ross. The list that had players maturing in the 24-29 year old age bracket. History tells you that you assemble a squad and that should be when they hit their prime

Yeah, Rossy was very clever at deflecting the blame onto the players and looking outward rather than inward?

… ’looking outward rather than inward’

asiu; Do you like it? Does it qualify as a zen type a thing?


* Ross has admitted in interviews in recent years that he had made errors during his early years as senior coach at St Kilda

I’m fairness Scallop… even though I 100% agree with you that I reckon that the quality of the list contributed a hell of a lot more then is generally acknowledged…
I don’t think it’s genuinely fair to say that RL didn’t contribute anything at all.

I think his clearly defined defined structures and roles worked very well for some players…
Stephen Milne in particular elevated his game and consistency to levels not previously seen by him

I think his approach of focusing, backing and relying on his stars makes a degree of sense because they got it done more often then not… though yes he could have done that and focused on developing the bottom half on the list. Not doubt that would have been better
More focus and attention on David Armitage and Jack Steven in 09-10 may have seen them not get injured and been the difference.
Hard to believe Armitage didn’t play in 09… seems like he’d have been very suited
Harder still to imagine that Steven only played a handful of games in 2010…

And his ability to keep his team psychologically strong and focused is admirable too. The group overcame a lot of adversity together.

However… that said, I very much agree with the general sense of what you’ve written

The smoking gun with RL for me is look at the results he got at Freo without a superstar list… there was no magic then
His recipe for success focuses on leaning on superstars and that’s what he did

[takeaway]

Raph Clarke. One of Rossy's "role players".

Scored by pundits as the WOG -- Worst on Ground -- in the 2009 GF.

As if anyone couldn't see it coming.

ANY defender would have been better. Gwilt. Hudghton. Even Maguire.

But you know what?

Every St kilda coach in my lifetime has made bewildering selection decisions.

Every one of them has pet players who inexplicably get a game.

Ratts has Kent, for one.

So I cut Ross some slack. And as I've said elsewhere, he's the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs.

Cut him some slack for being a novice - I’m ok with that but what irritated me from Lyon (* at the time) was the scapegoating of our players and trying to pretend that he as senior coach did everything right. He obviously didn’t when you look at the legacy of his time with us and the lost opportunity when we had a team that should have won in 2009

Did you look at the afltables link? What about Luke Ball only playing 46% game time?

What about Rossy thrashing the team to try and win the McLellan cup, meanwhile he’s got both ruckman cooked in the Grand Final and some of our players just couldn’t play at their best even before the finals started?

There was a lack of criticism from the so called experts and zero critical analysis in the media during his time with the Saints. This led to an unhealthy adulation from those within the club and far too many mistakes from Lyon which unfortunately proved very costly.

Once again, we all cut him slack when the team made a Grand Final the following year, but the effort and the results of getting there were not due to Rossy. They were due to the brilliance of the squad and the list that was assembled prior to Ross. The list that had players maturing in the 24-29 year old age bracket. History tells you that you assemble a squad and that should be when they hit their prime

Yeah, Rossy was very clever at deflecting the blame onto the players and looking outward rather than inward?

… ’looking outward rather than inward’

asiu; Do you like it? Does it qualify as a zen type a thing?


* Ross has admitted in interviews in recent years that he had made errors during his early years as senior coach at St Kilda

Ross thrashed the team to try to win the McLelland cup? Rubbish. Another Scollopism.

Anyway, in '71 what was did the messiah Jeans do in the last quarter to stop Keddie?

What on earth was Alves doing sending a runner out to ask Shanahan if he could handle Jarman in '97? What else could Shanahan say but "yeah". The coach should have made the move.

Supporters of all teams could raise similar issues with every single game played.

If a couple of kicks had been executed even reasonably, or with a normal bounce, Ross would have been worshipped as a premiership coach. Took a good side who had lost a few experienced players in Gehrig, Hamill, Peckett, Thompson etc, plugged some gaps with role players, developed a game plan and ethic which took the Saints all the way in one of our best periods in history. Never had that chance with GT - had the best side Saints ever assembled, developed an attacking game style which many doubted would take the team to the GF, .......and so it proved.

Ross is still very much respected as a coach, and as stated above, is the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs. GT ?????. Nope.

[Scollop]

Raph Clarke. One of Rossy's "role players".

Scored by pundits as the WOG -- Worst on Ground -- in the 2009 GF.

As if anyone couldn't see it coming.

ANY defender would have been better. Gwilt. Hudghton. Even Maguire.

But you know what?

Every St kilda coach in my lifetime has made bewildering selection decisions.

Every one of them has pet players who inexplicably get a game.

Ratts has Kent, for one.

So I cut Ross some slack. And as I've said elsewhere, he's the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs.

Cut him some slack for being a novice - I’m ok with that but what irritated me from Lyon (* at the time) was the scapegoating of our players and trying to pretend that he as senior coach did everything right. He obviously didn’t when you look at the legacy of his time with us and the lost opportunity when we had a team that should have won in 2009

Did you look at the afltables link? What about Luke Ball only playing 46% game time?

What about Rossy thrashing the team to try and win the McLellan cup, meanwhile he’s got both ruckman cooked in the Grand Final and some of our players just couldn’t play at their best even before the finals started?

There was a lack of criticism from the so called experts and zero critical analysis in the media during his time with the Saints. This led to an unhealthy adulation from those within the club and far too many mistakes from Lyon which unfortunately proved very costly.

Once again, we all cut him slack when the team made a Grand Final the following year, but the effort and the results of getting there were not due to Rossy. They were due to the brilliance of the squad and the list that was assembled prior to Ross. The list that had players maturing in the 24-29 year old age bracket. History tells you that you assemble a squad and that should be when they hit their prime

Yeah, Rossy was very clever at deflecting the blame onto the players and looking outward rather than inward?

… ’looking outward rather than inward’

asiu; Do you like it? Does it qualify as a zen type a thing?


* Ross has admitted in interviews in recent years that he had made errors during his early years as senior coach at St Kilda

Ross thrashed the team to try to win the McLelland cup? Rubbish. Another Scollopism.

Anyway, in '71 what was did the messiah Jeans do in the last quarter to stop Keddie?

What on earth was Alves doing sending a runner out to ask Shanahan if he could handle Jarman in '97? What else could Shanahan say but "yeah". The coach should have made the move.

Supporters of all teams could raise similar issues with every single game played.

If a couple of kicks had been executed even reasonably, or with a normal bounce, Ross would have been worshipped as a premiership coach. Took a good side who had lost a few experienced players in Gehrig, Hamill, Peckett, Thompson etc, plugged some gaps with role players, developed a game plan and ethic which took the Saints all the way in one of our best periods in history. Never had that chance with GT - had the best side Saints ever assembled, developed an attacking game style which many doubted would take the team to the GF, .......and so it proved.

Ross is still very much respected as a coach, and as stated above, is the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs. GT ?????. Nope.

If

If

If….

What sort of idiot ( sorry genius/ Ross the boss / the Great one) just keeps playing for wins when it’s virtually impossible to lose top spot?

When you are 15 zip and 16 zip, the plan should be all about what is best for the club to win the Grand Final. We were 2 games clear after Round 16 and he let individuals and his favoured star players get extra match payments instead of ‘managing’ the list and progressively getting them hungry…and getting them to compete with one another for spots? Well done super coach

By the way, you’re just repeating most of the things Teffers said. Even your writing style and your multiple ????? are just like Teflon

[takeaway]

Raph Clarke. One of Rossy's "role players".

Scored by pundits as the WOG -- Worst on Ground -- in the 2009 GF.

As if anyone couldn't see it coming.

ANY defender would have been better. Gwilt. Hudghton. Even Maguire.

But you know what?

Every St kilda coach in my lifetime has made bewildering selection decisions.

Every one of them has pet players who inexplicably get a game.

Ratts has Kent, for one.

So I cut Ross some slack. And as I've said elsewhere, he's the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs.

Cut him some slack for being a novice - I’m ok with that but what irritated me from Lyon (* at the time) was the scapegoating of our players and trying to pretend that he as senior coach did everything right. He obviously didn’t when you look at the legacy of his time with us and the lost opportunity when we had a team that should have won in 2009

Did you look at the afltables link? What about Luke Ball only playing 46% game time?

What about Rossy thrashing the team to try and win the McLellan cup, meanwhile he’s got both ruckman cooked in the Grand Final and some of our players just couldn’t play at their best even before the finals started?

There was a lack of criticism from the so called experts and zero critical analysis in the media during his time with the Saints. This led to an unhealthy adulation from those within the club and far too many mistakes from Lyon which unfortunately proved very costly.

Once again, we all cut him slack when the team made a Grand Final the following year, but the effort and the results of getting there were not due to Rossy. They were due to the brilliance of the squad and the list that was assembled prior to Ross. The list that had players maturing in the 24-29 year old age bracket. History tells you that you assemble a squad and that should be when they hit their prime

Yeah, Rossy was very clever at deflecting the blame onto the players and looking outward rather than inward?

… ’looking outward rather than inward’

asiu; Do you like it? Does it qualify as a zen type a thing?


* Ross has admitted in interviews in recent years that he had made errors during his early years as senior coach at St Kilda

Ross thrashed the team to try to win the McLelland cup? Rubbish. Another Scollopism.

Anyway, in '71 what was did the messiah Jeans do in the last quarter to stop Keddie?

What on earth was Alves doing sending a runner out to ask Shanahan if he could handle Jarman in '97? What else could Shanahan say but "yeah". The coach should have made the move.

Supporters of all teams could raise similar issues with every single game played.

If a couple of kicks had been executed even reasonably, or with a normal bounce, Ross would have been worshipped as a premiership coach. Took a good side who had lost a few experienced players in Gehrig, Hamill, Peckett, Thompson etc, plugged some gaps with role players, developed a game plan and ethic which took the Saints all the way in one of our best periods in history. Never had that chance with GT - had the best side Saints ever assembled, developed an attacking game style which many doubted would take the team to the GF, .......and so it proved.

Ross is still very much respected as a coach, and as stated above, is the only St Kilda coach in forty years who's been headhunted by other clubs. GT ?????. Nope.

If

If

If….

What sort of idiot ( sorry genius/ Ross the boss / the Great one) just keeps playing for wins when it’s virtually impossible to lose top spot?

When you are 15 zip and 16 zip, the plan should be all about what is best for the club to win the Grand Final. We were 2 games clear after Round 16 and he let individuals and his favoured star players get extra match payments instead of ‘managing’ the list and progressively getting them hungry…and getting them to compete with one another for spots? Well done super coach

By the way, you’re just repeating most of the things Teffers said. Even your writing style and your multiple ????? are just like Teflon

Check the posting history, I have always had the views expressed above. Maybe some of the thoughts match Teffers because they are right? Come on, you know in the back of your mind they are, your hindsight bias is just kicking in because we lost in '09 & '10, and some people just need to take the simple solution and twist the facts to pin the blame on one person.