TRUE BELIEVER APPEAL PROCESS AND POLL

[BackFromUSA]

This week True Believer received a permanent ban because he / she had accumulated 3 x 1 week bans.

At question here is not whether those bans were deserved as that has already been determined - they were severe breaches of the rules and thus deserving of a weeks ban each time.

For clarity the most recent breach, not only was a political post in the fan forum (an automatic one week ban) but advocated a violent action. Joke or not.

What is at question here and up for consideration is whether True Believer should be allowed back onto the forum after this permanent ban.

Past serial offenders are NOT allowed back on.

There IS a clause within the rules that True Believer can be re-admitted to the forum BUT under a new nic.

Thus his / her penalty for 3 x 1 week bans (as outlined in the rules) would be a permanent ban of the nic True Believer, but the poster would be allowed back onto the forum under a new nic.

So this poll is simply a choice btween 2 options.

The poll will run for three days.

[desertsaint]

hmm.
how about c. given a weeks ban and have the other two bans wiped given the time duration between bans. if there's a bond process he's well and truly over it. option 2 exists already. there is no way of stopping anyone with half a bit of nous logging in under a new nic.
the appeal process is about the poster true believer and his long history on this site, keeping that history, and recognising that the ban was overreach and backing away towards a more reasonable ban.

[asiu]

There IS a clause ...

where was that written ?

or was it just written this afternoon

jeezus wept



at the very least
this thread could be stickied
(in the Fan Forum)

so it is advertised for THE 3 days

[desertsaint]

keeping it up. keep our numbers alive. keep the true believers .

[roskilde]

Bump.

[asiu]

(thats what i was talking about)

it will fall off the front page
of the Fan Forum
coz its only a shadow link

bumping won't help

[SaintPav]

Bans for political posts shouldn't be part of the permanent banning process, especially in this day and age when we are all locked up.

TB is one of the more interesting and entertaining posters on here.

[BackFromUSA]

There IS a clause ...

where was that written ?

or was it just written this afternoon

jeezus wept



at the very least
this thread could be stickied
(in the Fan Forum)

so it is advertised for THE 3 days

Since February 2019:

Three 1 WEEK bans will result in that poster nic being banned from posting in the Saintsational Fan Forum under that username / nic, although they will retain access to read the Fan Forum and post in the closed forums such as Animal Enclosure, General Forum etc. They can re-register under a NEW username / nic and then continue posting football related matters in the Saintsational Fan Forum. If a poster continues to offend under the new username / nic, the administrator may decide to ban them from ALL forum access.

[BackFromUSA]

hmm.
how about c. given a weeks ban and have the other two bans wiped given the time duration between bans. if there's a bond process he's well and truly over it. option 2 exists already. there is no way of stopping anyone with half a bit of nous logging in under a new nic.
the appeal process is about the poster true believer and his long history on this site, keeping that history, and recognising that the ban was overreach and backing away towards a more reasonable ban.

A weeks ban is a severe penalty and does not get wiped.

A one day ban does get wiped.

3 strikes and you are out.

How about you try and regsiter a new nic and post successfully ... I assume you believe that you have at least half a bit of nous?

I rightly do not look at the poster before detrmining a penalty if there is a breach.

Simple fact is it was a breach and a severe breach with a prescibed penalty of one week ban. As the third 1 week ban, the permanent ban is automatic.

And if I did it any other way there would be cries of favourtism.

Importantly there is a mechanism for him / her to return - if I approve a new registration and permit posting - under a new nic.

The penalty of a nic ban means he / she loses his nic and posting history, but can start fresh.

[HardSaint]

Bans for political posts shouldn't be part of the permanent banning process, especially in this day and age when we are all locked up.

TB is one of the more interesting and entertaining posters on here.

Whn our forum is administered ny an arch Zioinst, who when you happen to bring up huamn rights in Palestine, bans you and then offers you free tickets to holocaust museum to "correct your thinking and balance" what do you expect?

can someone tell me what TB said or did?

Remember that time when you trid to eradicate me Simon?
Banned me and never let me back in until a few true believers took it up to you?

[BackFromUSA]

Bans for political posts shouldn't be part of the permanent banning process, especially in this day and age when we are all locked up.

TB is one of the more interesting and entertaining posters on here.

Whn our forum is administered ny an arch Zioinst, who when you happen to bring up huamn rights in Palestine, bans you and then offers you free tickets to holocaust museum to "correct your thinking and balance" what do you expect?

can someone tell me what TB said or did?

Remember that time when you trid to eradicate me Simon?
Banned me and never let me back in until a few true believers took it up to you?

A complete misrepresentation of everything relating to this incident.

You were not banned for your opinion.

You were banned (NOT permanently banned) for your response to another poster that was a severe breach of rules.

If I wanted you gone - you would be gone! I have the means.

Ask all those souls who have been permanently banned and now frequent BigFooty and cannot get back in.

However you are welcome to keep your version of your story.

It has zero impact on me.

I have much more importnt things to worry about in my life.

Enjoy posting here.

[CQ SAINT]

Hi Simon,

While this process is appreciated, thank you, it differs greatly to the process you posted when I last asked.

Don't you find it a little arbitrary that the admin who bans a poster in the first place, is also the person to judge the merit of an appeal and can refuse the condition of a turnover of the decision by poll?

Are you not prepared to have your opinion of the severity of the breach tested by the majority of voters?

You have stated here in no uncertain terms that he cannot appeal his last 1 week ban because the reporter of the breach and the admin agree. Where is the right to natural justice in that? Is this purely a dictatorship?

I dont understand and am unclear what process we are using.. I thought the purpose of the poll was to let the members vote on a turnover of the ban.

You have implied in the past that there will be no new members, because they are never new, just trouble makers. Was that your view before or after the new rules were drafted? Do you think True Believer is not a troublemaker?

A fellow forumite once made me aware of the following quote, written by a former admin. It appealed to my sense of justice.

'Moderating this site is not a simple task. It requires sustained commitment, dedication and balancing applying the rules with allowing for human diversity. The kind of moderation oversight you’re talking about would require a whole different level of attention and approach than is reasonable to expect on a voluntary basis and might actually suffocate the forum if it was too heavy handed. It’s about balance.'

I agree and believe, even with your clearly stated rules, that there is still a need for balance as this process ignores the opportunity for redemption for the banished that your documented appeal process provides.

And, it appears there is no mechanism for balance/fairness if there actually was a previous conflict between the banished member and the banning admin which might create a conflict in interests/motives for a ban..

The details pertaining to the reason for the ban and the actual post are there for everyone to see. Let the members judge, please.

So far, it appears that TB has the majority of support to return with a new nic (a condition not mentioned in your appeal process as describedin the rules) and I'd assume that if it was tested, that that support could also count for having this most recent ban overturned as well.

Your thoughts please?

Edit: specifically, there is no mention of the word permanent in the rules pertaining to an appeal of a ban.

[markp]

Voted for the second option, but I had assumed that was always the case.

Though stripping a familiar nic so as to have a 'fresh start' has always seemed a bit absurd to me. And in this case especially he should be allowed to keep it.

I understand TB's prevoius 1 week bannings were both for using the term "cho"? And this one was for making a lame dad joke about a politician. C'mon.

And why is the toby greene thread (still) in the main footy forum anyway? It belongs in the oppo forum, likely where the same stringent rules don't even apply (...or maybe it's still there bc all rules and guidelines are discretionary, as they should be).

So as Johnnie Cochran would conclude; "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit."

Or Lleyton Hewitt; "C'mon!"

And Paul Keating; "This one is for the True Believer."

[The Fireman]

waiting for the 3rd option.

and remove the anonymity , I'd like to have an idea of the sort of people I'm dealing with here on this forum especially those 5.

[asiu]

haha

just saw that



'they' could be the next hand picked mods


edit :

check this out Firery

outrageous



hey Senseye

[SENsei]

Voted for option two.

I stopped posting here around six years ago when it was clear the most divisive, aggressive and abusive poster received special treatment. And it astounds me to catch up on things and find out that that poster STILL is in the middle of arguments. Not this one but on a connected thread. Goes to the root of the problem here for what ot is worth. Have a great day!

[saynta]

hmm.
how about c. given a weeks ban and have the other two bans wiped given the time duration between bans. if there's a bond process he's well and truly over it. option 2 exists already. there is no way of stopping anyone with half a bit of nous logging in under a new nic.
the appeal process is about the poster true believer and his long history on this site, keeping that history, and recognising that the ban was overreach and backing away towards a more reasonable ban.

Option 2 does not already exist. the mod is giving TB a way back in and for that I am grateful.

[CQ SAINT]

hmm.
how about c. given a weeks ban and have the other two bans wiped given the time duration between bans. if there's a bond process he's well and truly over it. option 2 exists already. there is no way of stopping anyone with half a bit of nous logging in under a new nic.
the appeal process is about the poster true believer and his long history on this site, keeping that history, and recognising that the ban was overreach and backing away towards a more reasonable ban.

Option 2 does not already exist.

Sorry Saynta, it does exist. Simon reminded us with this:

Since February 2019:

Three 1 WEEK bans will result in that poster nic being banned from posting in the Saintsational Fan Forum under that username / nic, although they will retain access to read the Fan Forum and post in the closed forums such as Animal Enclosure, General Forum etc. They can re-register under a NEW username / nic and then continue posting football related matters in the Saintsational Fan Forum. If a poster continues to offend under the new username / nic, the administrator may decide to ban them from ALL forum access.

Simon is mixing processes and this appeal has nothing to do with an appeal.

Simon has also stated previously that no new nics would be allowed.

So its seems rather than an appeal to have his last ban overturned, TB is appealing to have his new nic accepted. Bit of a cluster f*** really. But here we are.

[saynta]

hmm.
how about c. given a weeks ban and have the other two bans wiped given the time duration between bans. if there's a bond process he's well and truly over it. option 2 exists already. there is no way of stopping anyone with half a bit of nous logging in under a new nic.
the appeal process is about the poster true believer and his long history on this site, keeping that history, and recognising that the ban was overreach and backing away towards a more reasonable ban.

Option 2 does not already exist.

Sorry Saynta, it does exist. Simon reminded us with this:

Since February 2019:

Three 1 WEEK bans will result in that poster nic being banned from posting in the Saintsational Fan Forum under that username / nic, although they will retain access to read the Fan Forum and post in the closed forums such as Animal Enclosure, General Forum etc. They can re-register under a NEW username / nic and then continue posting football related matters in the Saintsational Fan Forum. If a poster continues to offend under the new username / nic, the administrator may decide to ban them from ALL forum access.

Simon is mixing processes and this appeal has nothing to do with an appeal.

Simon has also stated previously that no new nics would be allowed.

So its seems rather than an appeal to have his last ban overturned, TB is appealing to have his new nic accepted. Bit of a cluster f*** really. But here we are.

I think re registering requires the mods approval, as the forum is presently closed to new members. but I could be wrong.

[CQ SAINT]

hmm.
how about c. given a weeks ban and have the other two bans wiped given the time duration between bans. if there's a bond process he's well and truly over it. option 2 exists already. there is no way of stopping anyone with half a bit of nous logging in under a new nic.
the appeal process is about the poster true believer and his long history on this site, keeping that history, and recognising that the ban was overreach and backing away towards a more reasonable ban.

Option 2 does not already exist.

Sorry Saynta, it does exist. Simon reminded us with this:

Since February 2019:

Three 1 WEEK bans will result in that poster nic being banned from posting in the Saintsational Fan Forum under that username / nic, although they will retain access to read the Fan Forum and post in the closed forums such as Animal Enclosure, General Forum etc. They can re-register under a NEW username / nic and then continue posting football related matters in the Saintsational Fan Forum. If a poster continues to offend under the new username / nic, the administrator may decide to ban them from ALL forum access.

Simon is mixing processes and this appeal has nothing to do with an appeal.

Simon has also stated previously that no new nics would be allowed.

So its seems rather than an appeal to have his last ban overturned, TB is appealing to have his new nic accepted. Bit of a cluster f*** really. But here we are.

I think re registering requires the mods approval, as the forum is presently closed to new members. but I could be wrong.

That is correct. But this decision is being left to the majority, nothing is being overturned as stated in the rules in regards to an appeal.
Some might call it rules on the run. Simon's prerogative, I'm assuming.

He won't change his ban decision via a poll but will change his no new registration rule via a poll. Some might call it a compromise.

[saynta]

hmm.
how about c. given a weeks ban and have the other two bans wiped given the time duration between bans. if there's a bond process he's well and truly over it. option 2 exists already. there is no way of stopping anyone with half a bit of nous logging in under a new nic.
the appeal process is about the poster true believer and his long history on this site, keeping that history, and recognising that the ban was overreach and backing away towards a more reasonable ban.

Option 2 does not already exist.

Sorry Saynta, it does exist. Simon reminded us with this:

Since February 2019:

Three 1 WEEK bans will result in that poster nic being banned from posting in the Saintsational Fan Forum under that username / nic, although they will retain access to read the Fan Forum and post in the closed forums such as Animal Enclosure, General Forum etc. They can re-register under a NEW username / nic and then continue posting football related matters in the Saintsational Fan Forum. If a poster continues to offend under the new username / nic, the administrator may decide to ban them from ALL forum access.

Simon is mixing processes and this appeal has nothing to do with an appeal.

Simon has also stated previously that no new nics would be allowed.

So its seems rather than an appeal to have his last ban overturned, TB is appealing to have his new nic accepted. Bit of a cluster f*** really. But here we are.

I think re registering requires the mods approval, as the forum is presently closed to new members. but I could be wrong.

That is correct. But this decision is being left to the majority, nothing is being overturned as stated in the rules in regards to an appeal.
Some might call it rules on the run. Simon's prerogative, I'm assuming.

He won't change his ban decision via a poll but will change his no new registration rule via a poll. Some might call it a compromise.

In this instance, compromise is good.

[CQ SAINT]

hmm.
how about c. given a weeks ban and have the other two bans wiped given the time duration between bans. if there's a bond process he's well and truly over it. option 2 exists already. there is no way of stopping anyone with half a bit of nous logging in under a new nic.
the appeal process is about the poster true believer and his long history on this site, keeping that history, and recognising that the ban was overreach and backing away towards a more reasonable ban.

Option 2 does not already exist.

Sorry Saynta, it does exist. Simon reminded us with this:

Since February 2019:

Three 1 WEEK bans will result in that poster nic being banned from posting in the Saintsational Fan Forum under that username / nic, although they will retain access to read the Fan Forum and post in the closed forums such as Animal Enclosure, General Forum etc. They can re-register under a NEW username / nic and then continue posting football related matters in the Saintsational Fan Forum. If a poster continues to offend under the new username / nic, the administrator may decide to ban them from ALL forum access.

Simon is mixing processes and this appeal has nothing to do with an appeal.

Simon has also stated previously that no new nics would be allowed.

So its seems rather than an appeal to have his last ban overturned, TB is appealing to have his new nic accepted. Bit of a cluster f*** really. But here we are.

I think re registering requires the mods approval, as the forum is presently closed to new members. but I could be wrong.

That is correct. But this decision is being left to the majority, nothing is being overturned as stated in the rules in regards to an appeal.
Some might call it rules on the run. Simon's prerogative, I'm assuming.

He won't change his ban decision via a poll but will change his no new registration rule via a poll. Some might call it a compromise.

In this instance, compromise is good.

The rules are being compromised.
Clear, fair and equitable governance would be better.
Fair treatment means people receive non-discriminatory attitudes regardless of their personal conditions.
Equitable treatment means people receive the same opportunity to reach a specific objective while specific considerations are in place.
I thought the appeal rules, as written, were specific and that TB had a fair chance to keep his nic.

[dragit]

This place is staggering towards a sad death and you’re still power tripping Simon, banning long term posters over posting a political post in the footy section? Gotta be f****** kidding mate.

Pretty sure this place is already cooked, but I vote for...

Option C:
No permanent bans for absurd overreaching technicalities and Simon should hand the keys back to give someone a chance at reviving this rotting corpse.

[Sanctorum]

This place is staggering towards a sad death and you’re still power tripping Simon, banning long term posters over posting a political post in the footy section? Gotta be f****** kidding mate.

Pretty sure this place is already cooked, but I vote for...

Option C:
No permanent bans for absurd overreaching technicalities and Simon should hand the keys back to give someone a chance at reviving this rotting corpse.

Beats me why anyone who regards this forum a "rotting corpse" in need of "revival" bothers remaining involved!

Comments such as these only serve to validate Simon's strong stand on maintaining a level of reason and civility of contributions on this forum. As I posted on this subject elsewhere, people should be mindful that it is Simon who has to answer for the conduct of posters on this forum and he is merely following "best practice" guidelines.

Offering True Believer the opportunity to continue participation on Saintsational under a new nic is a reasonable compromise.

[CQ SAINT]

This place is staggering towards a sad death and you’re still power tripping Simon, banning long term posters over posting a political post in the footy section? Gotta be f****** kidding mate.

Pretty sure this place is already cooked, but I vote for...

Option C:
No permanent bans for absurd overreaching technicalities and Simon should hand the keys back to give someone a chance at reviving this rotting corpse.

Beats me why anyone who regards this forum a "rotting corpse" in need of "revival" bothers remaining involved!

Comments such as these only serve to validate Simon's strong stand on maintaining a level of reason and civility of contributions on this forum. As I posted on this subject elsewhere, people should be mindful that it is Simon who has to answer for the conduct of posters on this forum and he is merely following "best practice" guidelines.

Offering True Believer the opportunity to continue participation on Saintsational under a new nic is a reasonable compromise.

Fair opinion Sancto but Simon said it himself, he doesn't care or have the time to monitor the boards.
He responds to complaints, he does not uphold reason or civility until then.
A level of reason is being tested right here and the compromise is reasonable but he ban for a political post was not. This, he can fix easily at request but in this case the process and rules must be obeyed. This seems contradictory to me. I am confused.