Seb's manager apparently testing the market

[The_Dud]

I do rate Cyril

Just don’t rate him as highly as others do - he was a good player playing forward pocket in the best team in the comp for much of his career.

I rate home where his numbers suggest

Somewhere between Jamie Cripps and Stephen Milne.

If Cyril was the superstar he was painted out to be in the media
Why didn’t he win more of the ball?
Why didn’t he kick more goals??

Why didn’t he win B&Fs and Brownlows???

He did make AA

Which is largely influence by the media

He did win a NS medal

Which probably should have gone to chip Frawley

Cyril played well and exposed the zoning and pressing WC defenders out the back

But Frawley neutralised WCs biggest threat (Kennedy) and I believe took 10 marks himself.

So by those measurements...

Cyril > Seb?

[asiu]

I went silent for about 30s and just let what he said hang in the air…
Just wanted to see if he would make the connection.

personal responsibility
is glazed mind country

only every time

[takeaway]

Cyril Rioli is the most overrated footballer I have known

He played 189 games 275 goals 15ppg - considered a champion

Compare that to Stephen Milne

Played 275 games 574 goals

Yet ask most chumps on the street who was the better player (non StK)

I do think Cyril was a good small forward, but not as good as
Betts, Milne, Farmer, Matera, Greene

And certainly not the super star the media peddle

Leigh Matthews (330 games) and Kevin Bartlett (403 games) were champions
They kicked 900+ and 750+ goals
They were superstars

Not someone with less than half their careers

I guess if you look at the cold, hard stats you could form the above view. Using stats to compare Cyril with other peers? Sacrilege.

To me, one Cyril stat, or even near stat, is worth several stats of the other modern day small forwards, except perhaps Betts.

Cyril played football for football's sake, not worried too much about training regimes, skin folds, blocking up space, position on the ladder or even scoreboard. He just played football on instinct. His effect when he was around the ball was electric. Nothing robotic about Cyril.

If you asked relevant backmen who they would LEAST prefer to be their opponent when a floating punt was headed towards them, I bet most would say Cyril.

My favourite player TO WATCH, bar none. And I am not Bruce.

[CQ SAINT]

Yeah, I loved Milne but Cyril was speshoooool.

[saynta]

Also Cyril was not a saint

I must admit I didn't like how over the top Brereton would go on about Cyril, that was ridiculous.

That said, I loved watching Cyril perform, may not get a truckload of it but when he did, wow! His pressure and implied pressure was scary.

All that said, I wish he had been a Saint. If that had been the case, the 2009 Cup would have been ours, possibly even the 2010 Cup.

Yep agree with that. I was ropeable when we overlooked him for the big boy and absolutely distressed when he (big boy) was playing his first game , went for a mark and the ball hit him in the head,

To make matters worse the dorks ended up with both of them.

[B.M]

How can 1 stat be worth several stats

They are either effective or ineffective

Cyril vs Ross
I think Cyril is a better player with the ball in hand
Seb being a mid obviously got more of the footy

It depends, who do you value more

A small forward or a midfielder?!

Interestingly
Cyril got 44 Brownlow votes in 189 games
Seb has got 43 Brownlow votes in 160 games

I would say
Cyril is a far better forward pocket than Seb is a mid
But Mids are more influential
A direct comparison is more difficult due to playing different positions but to me, Cyril gets the nod on pure ability vs Seb with his output.

How about Cyril vs Milne?

[Yorkeys]

The arguments that a player, Seb, is not as good as others in the comp and / or not as good as they were so should therefore leave are flimsy, yes?

Certain replacement known? Value to the team and club?

If the arguments are valid should not Hannebery leave. Seems his agent tested the waters and outgoing tide and read the rip strengthening off shore.
I hope Seb stays.

[saynta]

The arguments that a player, Seb, is not as good as others in the comp and / or not as good as they were so should therefore leave are flimsy, yes?

Certain replacement known? Value to the team and club?

If the arguments are valid should not Hannebery leave. Seems his agent tested the waters and outgoing tide and read the rip strengthening off shore.
I hope Seb stays.

Me too mate, me too.

[CQ SAINT]

The arguments that a player, Seb, is not as good as others in the comp and / or not as good as they were so should therefore leave are flimsy, yes?

Certain replacement known? Value to the team and club?

If the arguments are valid should not Hannebery leave. Seems his agent tested the waters and outgoing tide and read the rip strengthening off shore.
I hope Seb stays.

I think the 'should leave' isn't what is being said. I also think the world and the list, has changed dramatically since Ross was the best player in Richo and Trouts team.

I dont mind if he stays, but his piece of the pie is now crumbs. You don't pay 2021 dividends on 2019 performance. This isn't a romance novel. Seb is an average mid and in his current position, replaceable.

If anyone wants to offer him better than what he have, he should leave. Im a bit of a prick, but if he is testing the waters, tell him not to forget his towel.

[B.M]

Seb wasn’t the best player in ARs team

Jack Steven, Leigh Montagna and Nick Riewoldt were.

In 2017 he just performed the best.

[CQ SAINT]

Seb wasn’t the best player in ARs team

Jack Steven, Leigh Montagna and Nick Riewoldt were.

In 2017 he just performed the best.

Very correct. So, glad I didn't mention 2017. Thanks B.M.

[The Barometer]

How can 1 stat be worth several stats

They are either effective or ineffective

Cyril vs Ross
I think Cyril is a better player with the ball in hand
Seb being a mid obviously got more of the footy

It depends, who do you value more

A small forward or a midfielder?!

Interestingly
Cyril got 44 Brownlow votes in 189 games
Seb has got 43 Brownlow votes in 160 games

I would say
Cyril is a far better forward pocket than Seb is a mid
But Mids are more influential
A direct comparison is more difficult due to playing different positions but to me, Cyril gets the nod on pure ability vs Seb with his output.

How about Cyril vs Milne?

You should watch the games BM rather than analysing stats. Raw stats are very misleading unless you have some actual analysis you are tying them to. Not only can one stat be more impactful than another stat, sometime you can have more impact without getting a stat. Think vision to execute a kick or handball to open up play, knock on without taking advantage. Cyril was great at these. vs Ross flat footed, looping a dinky kick.

[B.M]

You don’t think I watch the game?!

Question
Rioli vs Betts career?

Who would you choose??

[st.byron]

The arguments that a player, Seb, is not as good as others in the comp and / or not as good as they were so should therefore leave are flimsy, yes?

Certain replacement known? Value to the team and club?

If the arguments are valid should not Hannebery leave. Seems his agent tested the waters and outgoing tide and read the rip strengthening off shore.
I hope Seb stays.

I think the 'should leave' isn't what is being said. I also think the world and the list, has changed dramatically since Ross was the best player in Richo and Trouts team.

I dont mind if he stays, but his piece of the pie is now crumbs. You don't pay 2021 dividends on 2019 performance. This isn't a romance novel. Seb is an average mid and in his current position, replaceable.

If anyone wants to offer him better than what he have, he should leave. Im a bit of a prick, but if he is testing the waters, tell him not to forget his towel.

Well summed up.

[WellardSaint]

The arguments that a player, Seb, is not as good as others in the comp and / or not as good as they were so should therefore leave are flimsy, yes?

Certain replacement known? Value to the team and club?

If the arguments are valid should not Hannebery leave. Seems his agent tested the waters and outgoing tide and read the rip strengthening off shore.
I hope Seb stays.

I think the 'should leave' isn't what is being said. I also think the world and the list, has changed dramatically since Ross was the best player in Richo and Trouts team.

I dont mind if he stays, but his piece of the pie is now crumbs. You don't pay 2021 dividends on 2019 performance. This isn't a romance novel. Seb is an average mid and in his current position, replaceable.

If anyone wants to offer him better than what he have, he should leave. Im a bit of a prick, but if he is testing the waters, tell him not to forget his towel.

Very logical and honest appraisal.
Perfectly summarised.
Acknowledgement that he had value but we now have better, younger, options.
Better in output, better in monetary value, and on an upwards trajectory.
Seb's presence on ground can cost goals more likely than the younger guys would.
We've seen Seb's best, in a poor team.
Others have passed him in value now, and he's depth at best.
Best 22 in a bottom team, but now fringe.
Thanks Sebby, but we need to turn players over if we are to get better.

[SaintPav]

That non-marking contest against Dangerfield still annoys me. Don't care if he stays or goes.

[Wayne42]

The arguments that a player, Seb, is not as good as others in the comp and / or not as good as they were so should therefore leave are flimsy, yes?

Certain replacement known? Value to the team and club?

If the arguments are valid should not Hannebery leave. Seems his agent tested the waters and outgoing tide and read the rip strengthening off shore.
I hope Seb stays.

I think the 'should leave' isn't what is being said. I also think the world and the list, has changed dramatically since Ross was the best player in Richo and Trouts team.

I dont mind if he stays, but his piece of the pie is now crumbs. You don't pay 2021 dividends on 2019 performance. This isn't a romance novel. Seb is an average mid and in his current position, replaceable.

If anyone wants to offer him better than what he have, he should leave. Im a bit of a prick, but if he is testing the waters, tell him not to forget his towel.

Thanks Sebby, but we need to turn players over if we are to get better.

That's the most pertinent point in the Ross debate.

[maverick]

That non-marking contest against Dangerfield still annoys me. Don't care if he stays or goes.

Me too
100% agree
Perfect example of the pick and choose

[B.M]

Seb ever been known for his contested marking?!

Let’s say he did contest the mark? Paddy would still have taken it!!! He is a bull and great contested mark!!!

I assume with a 50m kick inside 50 he was expecting a KPP to kill the high ball

From watching it, Seb was 15m in front of Danger, and thought he’d stay down and get the spill - there was no spill. He played the situation like many Mids probably would and stay down.

Mark was uncontested, in the end. Normally the rule is, if it’s your opponent that goes, you go. But he would probably thought with a high entry Wilkie, Howard, Highmore or a ruckman would be in the contest, so he would be better served staying down.

In the end

One poor decision does not define a footballer?!

Has he never made a good decision or can’t we acknowledge that?


Rowan Marshall kicked off one step into the man on the mark - goal.
Jack Steele gave away two centre clearance free kicks - goal

No one is perfect

And playing on Dangerfield i50 makes it pretty difficult I would have thought?

[WellardSaint]

That non-marking contest against Dangerfield still annoys me. Don't care if he stays or goes.

He has a habit of allowing opponents free reign.
Yet another comes to mind- about 2017 vs Power.
Ryder tapped perfectly to a Power mid, Ross was standing on his own heels so couldn't accelerate, i think it was Robbie Gray- kicked an easy goal.
Had Ross been moving and not spectating, he coulda applied pressure.
He goes only when he feels like it, IMHO

[skeptic]

That non-marking contest against Dangerfield still annoys me. Don't care if he stays or goes.

He has a habit of allowing opponents free reign.
Yet another comes to mind- about 2017 vs Power.
Ryder tapped perfectly to a Power mid, Ross was standing on his own heels so couldn't accelerate, i think it was Robbie Gray- kicked an easy goal.
Had Ross been moving and not spectating, he coulda applied pressure.
He goes only when he feels like it, IMHO

I posted somewhere else that if it was a choice to keep one of Dunstan (before his last game) or Ross… at this point I’d prefer Luke for this reason

Luke looks like he’d bust a gut to get a win… throws himself at every contest like a madman and occasionally takes on things he’s not good enough to do.

Lately, Ross looks like he’d barely raise a sweat

Seems content going through the motions, staying on one side of the ground for 20-30min ‘keeping structure’ and letting his man go when suits

Doesn’t look to have the hunger

[B.M]

He played the second half of the year on the wing

[saintbob]

He played the second half of the year on the wing

He would've played the second half of the year at Sandy if it weren't for COVID

[skeptic]

He played the second half of the year on the wing

He would've played the second half of the year at Sandy if it weren't for COVID

Kind of feels like this is the new excuse to justify reduced impact on games

[B.M]

Not really,

It’s just a comment that indicates that on the wing you generally don’t get as much of the ball as you do if you’re playing in the midfield.

On average probably 5-10 possessions less