Battle 'testing the waters'

[shanegrambeau]

Can someone point out a good game Battle has played?

What did he do in that game? What attributes did he show that will develop and why haven’t they? Q

Surely, players have to earn a place based on their talent (King,Hill) or for the more mortal and common player, their accomplishments and efforts (Wilkie, Sinclair)

We don’t just ‘fence off’ a position just to see if player X may develop into a KPP there?

So what has Battle got, besides a great look, a great name and a strong and honest presentation?

[Sainter_Dad]

Can someone point out a good game Battle has played?

Saintsational thought:
v Tigers Rnd 5 2021 worthy of 1/2 a vote
v Dons Rnd 12 2020 worthy of 3 votes
v Tigers Rnd 15 2019 worthy of 3 votes
v Eagles Rnd 8 2019 worthy of 4 votes
v Crows Rnd 6 2019 worthy of 4 votes
v Freo Rnd 3 2019 worthy of 1/2 a vote

[B.M]

All of those games at CHB

probably in losses??

[Sainter_Dad]

All of those games at CHB

probably in losses??

v Tigers Rnd 5 2021 worthy of 1/2 a vote - 48 v 134
v Dons Rnd 12 2020 worthy of 3 votes - 68 v 33
v Tigers Rnd 15 2019 worthy of 3 votes - 70 v 103
v Eagles Rnd 8 2019 worthy of 4 votes - 70 v 88
v Crows Rnd 6 2019 worthy of 4 votes - 68 v 97
v Freo Rnd 3 2019 worthy of 1/2 a vote - 66 v 71

[Sanctorum]

In what position

I have long argued that I believe Josh Battle can be developed into the old "follower" position, such as played by Nat Fyfe, Marcus Bontempelli, Christian Petracca, Jake Stringer and others.

That idea has been rubbished by some on this forum on the grounds that he is too slow and not agile below his knees - I contend that he is young enough for the Saints development team to set up programmes for Battle to gain those levels of fitness and skills.

Imagine how much better St Kilda would be with such a player??? Josh Battle could be that.....

[St Plugger]

So what has Battle got, besides a great look, a great name and a strong and honest presentation?

Josh Battle, along with Ben Long and Dan McKenzie all suffer from being "Whipping Boys" but the all share having "a strong and honest presentation", a quality openly missing in those thrashings we witnessed this season.They are always heavily criticised regardless by some on this forum, when there are other players on this list who consistently offer less in this area. It always amazes me that other players, EG Kent, seem to get a pass mark, when they are vastly inadequate in this quality. In the clinches of tough close finals football, it's Josh Battle and Co that will hold the line when it's needed!

[Ghost Like]

So what has Battle got, besides a great look, a great name and a strong and honest presentation?

Josh Battle, along with Ben Long and Dan McKenzie all suffer from being "Whipping Boys" but the all share having "a strong and honest presentation", a quality openly missing in those thrashings we witnessed this season.They are always heavily criticised regardless by some on this forum, when there are other players on this list who consistently offer less in this area. It always amazes me that other players, EG Kent, seem to get a pass mark, when they are vastly inadequate in this quality. In the clinches of tough close finals football, it's Josh Battle and Co that will hold the line when it's needed!

I actually think Battle has been relatively loved and encouraged from within this site. Kent is your quintessential whipping boy.

Plus, Battle was a participant in those thrashings.

Plus, he's the one searching for his value.

[skeptic]

I would agree that by and large, the reception on Battle has been fairly positive.

Earned a few more detractors this year having not maintained his improvement

[B.M]

He’s overrated IMO

People fascinated with size of players tend to want those players to succeed… like Blake Acres and Nick Coffield… and Battle

Yet… seem to want other players to fail… especially small forwards

Some supporters also believe with size comes aggression, and that’s what’s required to be a good player?!

I lean more towards ability, skill and courage.

Bowling a few people over doesn’t make you a good footballer, especially if you can’t get a kick. Nor does being 190+ if your s***!

[Wayne42]

There's a few Saints players out there testing the water at the moment, when will they get the results back.

The Off season is very slow this year.

[St Plugger]

Yet… seem to want other players to fail… especially small forwards

No, IMO most here have ranked the small forwards with Butler and Higgins at the top of their list, with Long next, followed by Lonie and Kent trailing at the bottom of the list.

It's not wanting them to fail, they do so by their own performances, with Kent consistently being the most disappointing!

If you could fuse both Lonie and Kent into the one player, they would be an excellent small. Imagine Lonies attitude, ball skills and football intelligence with Kents physical attributes. Alas each requires what the other possess!!

[skeptic]

I never get this bizarre logic that bring critical of performance is wanting players to fail.

Why BM hates Battle so much and wills him to fail is beyond me

[Ghost Like]

It's not so much people want players to fail, I hope not anyway. I think it's more about a preconceived bias once an opinion has been shared - sometimes it's hard to come back if it means admitting you were wrong.

It becomes a matter of who you are protective of and who you've gone out on a limb for (or against).

It is quite bizarre how some players can be protected by their past yet others are not allowed to move on from their past.

Let's face it, we are at the end of a decade of having an average list of players that we all have hoped or seen something in a player that gives us belief our list is improving. More often than not that player becomes a false dawn or stagnates.

Players like Battle, Lonie, Long, Kent are likely our current Newnes / Acres. All have played very good games that have become outliers in their careers, we wish they were the norm but have been left frustrated.

DMac is a freak in that he was one of those but pushed through to now become best 25, if not best 22. He is the exception. I do not include Webster, he's always been best 25 (22) when given a good run with injuries.

Our improvement must come from the likes of our mid tier improving that the likes of Ross and Dunstan are pushed down or out. Then our kids need to become that mid tier.

I think we've seen that the past two seasons, hence the movement and whispers in relation to Battle, Ross and Dunstan.

[Beno88]

If Battle played for another side, and was "testing the waters", there'd be a thread on how he fits our needs, is only 22 and has played 40 games and we should go after him.

[skeptic]

If Battle played for another side, and was "testing the waters", there'd be a thread on how he fits our needs, is only 22 and has played 40 games and we should go after him.

Would there be though?

To me… Battle is clearly talented enough to be playing at AFL level.

The issue becomes where does he fit in our side

He’s down the order as a forward behind King, Membrey, a resting ruck and Sharman (for now) + with rumours that we make a play at Bing

He’s not a midfielder and did not excel at that position

As a defender, he’s not big enough for CHB and is behind Coffield and Highmore for the medium tall type

Purely to me that’s the issue.

I don’t see where he fits

[Beno88]

If Battle played for another side, and was "testing the waters", there'd be a thread on how he fits our needs, is only 22 and has played 40 games and we should go after him.

Would there be though?

To me… Battle is clearly talented enough to be playing at AFL level.

The issue becomes where does he fit in our side

He’s down the order as a forward behind King, Membrey, a resting ruck and Sharman (for now) + with rumours that we make a play at Bing

He’s not a midfielder and did not excel at that position

As a defender, he’s not big enough for CHB and is behind Coffield and Highmore for the medium tall type

Purely to me that’s the issue.

I don’t see where he fits

There was a thread on Levi Casboult. There's your answer.

[Yorkeys]

Just by the way, do we know if Josh has expressed a preference for where he would like to play?

[Saints58]

I really like what Battle can bring to the table play him as a forward leave him there for a few games and if he doesn't do well then move him down back.
I remember similar talk about another player who played as a swing man he was not playing well and got a few injury's there was a lot of talk about trading him.
We didn't and he ended up working on his game and being a very good player his name Brendan Goddard so lets see how next season pans out.
Using him to trade for Bing in a deal with picks whatever the club is getting together would be a good move as we get a quality player back.

[Wayne42]

The Saints with a decision on swingman Josh Battle who is expected to stay at Moorabbin after his name was floated in recent trade talks.

"Sometimes your flexibility is your greatest strength but your greatest weakness too," Ratten said.

"He's had some good success on the wing, he's had good success as the second ruck, but he probably hasn't nailed the tall (spot) at either end.

"That's something we're discussing, do we give him a preferred end to go to? We've got to make sure we look after him, he's had a couple of stress fractures, that's probably the talking point as to where we shape him.

"We think we'll still keep him through the midfield at times and pick an end to go to."

[Impatient Sainter]

I rate Ratten but I dont think he is doing Battle any favours attempting to turn him into a wingman. He needs to be settled into defence or trade him IMO.

[Teflon]

The Saints with a decision on swingman Josh Battle who is expected to stay at Moorabbin after his name was floated in recent trade talks.

"Sometimes your flexibility is your greatest strength but your greatest weakness too," Ratten said.

"He's had some good success on the wing, he's had good success as the second ruck, but he probably hasn't nailed the tall (spot) at either end.

"That's something we're discussing, do we give him a preferred end to go to? We've got to make sure we look after him, he's had a couple of stress fractures, that's probably the talking point as to where we shape him.

"We think we'll still keep him through the midfield at times and pick an end to go to."

Pick a spot FFS Brett stop having a bet each way and confusing the guy
I see we have just emphasised development....no wonder the Josh’s of the world go backwards

[Ghost Like]

Seems the water was tepid at best. Perhaps this is a reason Clav got chopped because Battle wasn't going anywhere.

Battle has one year left & appears our back-up for the backline, forwardline, ruck. I cannot see wing as an option, at all.

[CQ SAINT]

The Saints with a decision on swingman Josh Battle who is expected to stay at Moorabbin after his name was floated in recent trade talks.

"Sometimes your flexibility is your greatest strength but your greatest weakness too," Ratten said.

"He's had some good success on the wing, he's had good success as the second ruck, but he probably hasn't nailed the tall (spot) at either end.

"That's something we're discussing, do we give him a preferred end to go to? We've got to make sure we look after him, he's had a couple of stress fractures, that's probably the talking point as to where we shape him.

"We think we'll still keep him through the midfield at times and pick an end to go to."

Pick a spot FFS Brett stop having a bet each way and confusing the guy
I see we have just emphasised development....no wonder the Josh’s of the world go backwards

Josh was pinned as a forward who would develop into a mid in his last few years as a junior because of his size and engine. Ratten has at least explored that.
Josh wasn't going forward ahead of Bruce, Paddy or Marshall, same with Carlisle and Brown and then Wilkie as an intercept rebounder.
His work rate and ability to read the flight of the ball is great but his ability to dominate a key position is sketchy in terms of contested possessions. He is a third banana.

[B.M]

We have excellent 3rd bananas at both ends

Wilkie, Highmore, Coffield

Membrey, Sharman

[CQ SAINT]

We have excellent 3rd bananas at both ends

Wilkie, Highmore, Coffield

Membrey, Sharman

Oh I fully agree. Not sure about Coffield yet but for once Battle, given his junior career, athletic ability and skill, might just have been the best available when selected but has failed to find his niche in the big time so far, acknowledging some unfortunately timed injuries.