Dunstan dropped

[terry smith rules]

I would rate Luke as a poor man’s Oliver (who has questionable foot disposal) . His clearance work is not far behind Oliver’s and his stats overall are just behind his.

Some would say he has had a blessed run at the Saints, I think there are a few questionable omissions in all of that. Round 1 2018 left out after good preseason form. Dropped after rd 1 2020 after scoring Brownlow votes!!

Maybe he wasn’t great v Geelong, but surely he had some credits for the games in rounds 15,16,17 where he scored a total of 23 coaches votes!

Good luck Luke

[takeaway]

He's good at the clearances, but here's a guy who averages 5.6 turnovers per game (stats from Footywire.com), the highest in the team and one of the highest in the league. That's why he wasn't getting a game until injuries forced Ratten's hand. He's been averaging around 26 possessions a game, and he hands it directly back to the opposition 20% of the time. Most of those turnovers are from forward 50 entries, robbing us of scoring opportunities. Those turnovers cost goals, cost team morale, and sometimes cost games.

That's where stats are misleading. When Dunstan "wasn't getting a game" his turnover rate was 2.7, so hardly a reason for non selection. It is true his disposal by foot is iffy, and that is his main issue. However, the fact that his turnover rate this season is 5.4 I think is a side effect of his impressive run of games. High turnover rates are the norm for mids in the heat of contested ball, for example this year the best inside mids turnovers - Petracca 6.6, Oliver 5.4, Wines 6.0.

I agree with some posters that Dunstan has been treated harshly by the Saints selection wise. He has played plenty of good games for the Saints in addition to this year, especially early in his career when he had to shoulder a big burden in the midfield. Had some injuries, and some poor games, but I recall being surprised at times when he was dropped, when there were certainly far worse performers in the side. I don't blame him if he is disgruntled, and wish him well if he is indeed gone.

Too late now but based on what I have seen to date, and Dunstan being only 26, I know who I would prefer between Dunstan & Bytel in the near future - Dunstan. Bytel has not shown much to me, I hope he improves. It looks like Dunstan is gone, but I would have preferred Ross to go rather than Dunstan.

How many Trevor Barker awards has Dunny won?

Two less than Ross, I believe. I like Ross, but looking at current form, age, and our needs I would prefer Dunstan in there competing for the congested ball rather Ross. Irrelevant now though, I guess.

[B.M]

You would take Dunstan over Ross?!

Why?

Ross is out of the centre square because he has the capacity to play elsewhere

Does Dunstan??

Another question, probably more poignant

Crouch or Dunstan?

[takeaway]

You would take Dunstan over Ross?!

Why?

Ross is out of the centre square because he has the capacity to play elsewhere

Does Dunstan??

Another question, probably more poignant

Crouch or Dunstan?

The way Dunstan is (or was) playing suits our attacking style more (even allowing for a few errors), better extractor than Ross. Ross tends to prop and stop too often.

Hope Ross can get back to better form with more time in the midfield.

Crouch or Dunstan? - Crouch.

[skeptic]

Can he though…
Yeah Ross can do a tag job on the not so elite mods from time to time but he’s susceptible to being blown out of the water to

He doesn’t start in the middle not because he’s super flexible… he’s just not that good at it anymore . All of Steele, Crouch, Dunstan and arguably Jones have overtaken him

Reality is Seb is 28 and on the decline…
If forced to pick between Ross and Dunstan, purely on performance I’d take Luke as he’s pbly got 5 years in him and is improving
Ross has pbly 2-3 but he’s really past his best these days

Only issue muddying the waters is attitude in which Ross leaves him for dead and Dunstan looks very poor atm

[B.M]

How many ‘extractors’ do we need (inside Mids)

We have Steele, Crouch, Jones, Bytel

Hannebery and Ross can play inside.

Gresham is to return

Clark and Byrnes can also play centre square

What Dunstan was actually doing was playing on the oppositions best inside mid. Worked really well for a month.
Well beaten last few games

[skeptic]

I love how your praise of Ross generally tends to focus less on his great games and more on the failings of others.

Always a great sign

And of course let’s not forget the intangibles… always sacrificing his own game, showing leadership, how off the ball work etc etc
I’ve heard this all before for some many players

Geeeez I hope we don’t lose him because if rival clubs are chasing Dunstan… imagine the godfather offers being made for Seb

[takeaway]

How many ‘extractors’ do we need (inside Mids)

We have Steele, Crouch, Jones, Bytel

Hannebery and Ross can play inside.

Gresham is to return

Clark and Byrnes can also play centre square

What Dunstan was actually doing was playing on the oppositions best inside mid. Worked really well for a month.
Well beaten last few games

Dunstan played on the opposition's best mid for the first couple of games, after that, more a general mid role. Don't recall him being well beaten. He did, as well as the other mids (including Steele), let Dangerfield get off the leash a bit much last game.

Bytel hasn't proved to me (yet) he is a good extractor, I'm not counting Hannebery, if he plays should be more on the outside, Gresham should be receiving more than extracting, as should Jones.

Plenty can go in the centre, but not many are as effective in the packs as Dunstan.

[B.M]

Seb will go as a free agent IMO

Which will make everyone happy

I think Billings will go to North 2nd round pick
Ross will go elsewhere third round pick
Dunstan to GC or Adelaide end of third round

But at least we’ve got Geary to play the ‘defensive forward’ role

Possible Trades
Long, Battle, Coffield

Side will look a lot different in 2022 - most likely be worse!

[magnifisaint]

Seb will go as a free agent IMO

Which will make everyone happy

I think Billings will go to North 2nd round pick
Ross will go elsewhere third round pick
Dunstan to GC or Adelaide end of third round

But at least we’ve got Geary to play the ‘defensive forward’ role

Possible Trades
Long, Battle, Coffield

Side will look a lot different in 2022 - most likely be worse!

I think u are wrong.

[saynta]

Hope Seb and Billings both stay. Side is better with them than not. Don't really give a f*** about Dunstan if he really wants to go.

There are some f****** ignorant comments posted about Seb and Jack. Truly nauseating at times.

But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how shitty that opinion is.

[skeptic]

I don’t think many if any want Seb to go

Just the carry on as though he’s a secret elite class mid that we’re all too dumb to see but you and one other guy notice it, gets very tedious

Much like in the Carlton game how you endlessly sang his praises in a badly beaten midfield for his “amazing sacrificial leadership” and then when multiple chimed highlighting why his game was poor…
Well you just stopped talking about him. Ripped into all the other mids you did then let Seb off the hook until you couldn’t.

Carry on like that actually destroys by forcing people to really have to emphasise the criticism to make the point

End of the day… sometimes Ross gets beaten like all our mids do. That’s fine, it happens.
This… his performance is beyond criticism mantra that you forcefeed here has done him no favours. It’s ok to acknowledge sometimes he could do better

[saynta]

Hope Seb and Billings both stay. Side is better with them than not. Don't really give a f*** about Dunstan if he really wants to go.

There are some f****** ignorant comments posted about Seb and Jack. Truly nauseating at times.

But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how shitty that opinion is.

bump.

I should have said "shitty and f****** wrong".'cause that is what I meant.

[B.M]

If he could do better he would

Do you think he doesn’t try?

Against Carlton he was pitted against Sam Walsh for some of the game (poor match up and well beaten)

Sam Walsh averages over 30 per game will be AA finish top 3 in the Brownlow and is elite. He has beaten better players than Seb Ross this season.

BTW
How do you rate Sebs career to date??

[spert]

A problem with Dunny and Ross is that they are slow to move the ball on when they get it- their first reaction is to stop and prop. I guess neither have elite foot skills and don't trust themselves to do a quick sharp kick to pick a teammate out, as it could go anywhere, and probably a turnover..mind you, Hill is in that category recently.

[saynta]

A problem with Dunny and Ross is that they are slow to move the ball on when they get it- their first reaction is to stop and prop. I guess neither have elite foot skills and don't trust themselves to do a quick sharp kick to pick a teammate out, as it could go anywhere, and probably a turnover..mind you, Hill is in that category recently.

Hard not to notice that.

[skeptic]

If he could do better he would

Do you think he doesn’t try?

Against Carlton he was pitted against Sam Walsh for some of the game (poor match up and well beaten)

Sam Walsh averages over 30 per game will be AA finish top 3 in the Brownlow and is elite. He has beaten better players than Seb Ross this season.

BTW
How do you rate Sebs career to date??

If he could do better he would

Do you think he doesn’t try?

Against Carlton he was pitted against Sam Walsh for some of the game (poor match up and well beaten)

Sam Walsh averages over 30 per game will be AA finish top 3 in the Brownlow and is elite. He has beaten better players than Seb Ross this season.

BTW
How do you rate Sebs career to date??

I think he’s had a good career and one one that he can certainly look back on and be proud of.

At his best, he sustained form that had him consistently close to our best and looked set to elevate his game to the A-Grade category.
He had a few patches where in addition to getting 25-35 possessions, he kicked goals and was clearly the dominant player on the ground.
Maybe not to the level of Jack Steele now but not too far off either…

2016-18 was his best seasons, consistently averaging close to if not more than 30 possessions but it’s been head and shoulders statistically above his other ones

was looking like a beast but…

He never got there. Never consistently the guy leading the way from the front and never consistently a match winner. Compare him to a peer like Jack Steven who won more ball, stood up in the bigger moments more often and had 3-4+years of consistently being our best.
Ross has got something like 40 career Brownlow votes, Steven got over 70

In that regard I’m disappointed for him because I think Ross could have been just as good albeit in a different way. Instead he’s a guy that’s been a good, consistent contributor that never really excelled at any one thing and generally is falling further and further off the pace

Good leader, not a great one
Professional, but never set the standard
Consistently best 22, couple of B&F wins but never elite
Doubtful opposition clubs have ever seriously chased him

Has had a good career… maybe a great one… far better than any of us could even dare to dream but…
Not untouchable either
Has had patches where his form has been average… almost deserved to be dropped at times last year… which again is fine. Most players that play for 10+ years have bad patches but he is far from uncriticisable

[B.M]

Good write up

Now rate Dunstan’s career in comparison

[The_Dud]

The year is 2021, not 2017

In 2021 Dunstan is a better player than Ross. Look at the coaches votes, look at the votes on here, look at any metrics you want, and he’s done it in a lot less games.

Some weird logic being thrown around that Dunstan has replaced Ross in the midfield because Ross is actually a better player… Usually when someone takes your job it’s because they’re doing it better.

Ross is a vanilla player, not great at anything in particular, handy depth, easily replaceable. Word is Ross has chosen to test the market this offseason, are we questioning his loyalty? Be interesting to see what comes of it.

[wally]

We traded McEvoy for Dunstan and Savage Maybe we could a reverse swap if you got 2 years out of Big boy Ben that would do

[WellardSaint]

Our midfield got well-beaten against Geelong in the end, so someone had to go. Dunstan made a few bad decisions in that game which didn't help us, and Byrnes is a young gun still learning and will be better next season.

Am I mistaken, or was there one glaring error where Dunstan had plenty of time to handball to a teammate in defence (vs Cats) cos there were 3 guys nearby, but he ended up getting tackled and pinged for HTB?

[saynta]

Our midfield got well-beaten against Geelong in the end, so someone had to go. Dunstan made a few bad decisions in that game which didn't help us, and Byrnes is a young gun still learning and will be better next season.

Am I mistaken, or was there one glaring error where Dunstan had plenty of time to handball to a teammate in defence (vs Cats) cos there were 3 guys nearby, but he ended up getting tackled and pinged for HTB?

Yep. Cost us. Not his only glaring error on the night .

[Impatient Sainter]

In a perfect world we keep them all, but managing salary caps mean older marginal players get pushed out. Our problem is we have spent mega $$$ on the wrong players in Hill & Hannebrey, which has caused cap issues that effects other players.

Dunstan will leave solely to get some career longevity.
Ross I hope he stays but on the right money.
Billings hope he stays but on the right money.

If Battle leaves it will be on our terms as he is contracted.

[B.M]

Dunstan so much better in 2021

Why is he out of the team - again??

[bangaulegend]

Dunstan so much better in 2021

Why is he out of the team - again??

I think its pretty obvious not playing because he is going & winning means very little to us ATM . If we were still a chance he would be playing IMO anyway