Hickey, Bruce and Hind

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Scollop
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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1911440Post Scollop »

desertsaint wrote: Wed 30 Jun 2021 4:02pm is hind having a better season than sinclair. possibly. but not much in it.
haven't seen enough of him to base it on any more than a few games and their comparative stats for the season.
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S
Thanks for the footywire link

I just did a comparison between Hind and Hill…just for shitsandgiggles

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

Hmmm…interesting that Hind is apparently worth $607,000 for AFL Fantasy and Hill is worth just $465,000

Does that mean we got screwed?


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1911442Post shanegrambeau »

I wonder what sort of values Rioli senior (Hawthorn) Sean Burgoyne and other low possession but impactful players got on the kind of metrics those fantasy games use?


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1911473Post desertsaint »

pretty sure scollop was very much to gue in cheek, but yes, i'd ignore the fantasy ratings and values and just concentrate on the game stats. even they are open to some debate, but at least its a more objective measure.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1912500Post Scollop »

desertsaint wrote: Thu 01 Jul 2021 9:48pm pretty sure scollop was very much to gue in cheek, but yes, i'd ignore the fantasy ratings and values and just concentrate on the game stats. even they are open to some debate, but at least its a more objective measure.
I was going to let this thread die, but after watching Foxfooty, it’s time to revive the discussion and re-examine a genuine comparison of Hill versus Hind in season 2021. It’s significant and pertinent in terms of where St Kilda has been playing Hill for the majority of this year.

I wonder whether people actually looked at the website to see the comparison between Hind and Hill (based on stats for the current season). Here’s the link again;

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

On The Couch (Foxfooty) showed the top 5 kicks so far this year - where they get the footy inside 50 - and a mark is taken by their teammate. These were the best 5 kicks inside 50 starting with McLuggage who hits a target 36% of the time. Next was David Mundy at 33% followed by Tim Kelly at 32% and last was Jarrod Lyons (Brisbane) who went at 25%. The fourth spot was Nick Hind.

Hind hit a target and a teammate marked the footy inside 50 with 31% of Nick’s passes. That’s impressive! Hind is definitely going to be high up in Essendon’s Best and Fairest too

Last two years at St Kilda it was always Hind that was finding himself on the outer. You could see that this kid had an asset that was a weapon and somehow St Kilda couldn’t develop and nurture and utilise his speed and allow him to flourish. It’s disappointing and it highlights again with a guy like Dunny that we always had the asset there and we went and picked up Crouch even though we had a player with similar ability right under our nose

No doubt that when Geary is fit they’ll find a spot for him in the team. Seb Ross and Jack Billings somehow get slotted in ahead of others, even when there’s no perfect role for them to play. When Brad Hill had 2 or 3 stinkers the coach and Simon Lethlean came out and publicly declared that Hill was not going to be dropped.

The thing that coaches need to learn is that a team has to evolve and change and you can’t rely on the same players getting the job done each week if they’ve shown time and time again that they’re not up to it.

It annoys me that team selection is based on past history of a player or his reputation or his draft pick or his current salary.

I’d love for DMac and Long to cement their place in the side. Both are tough. Both have speed and both have unique assets that need to be utilised for St Kilda to get back into finals.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1912518Post skeptic »

I don’t get it Scollop.

A fairly constant pattern of this football club over at least the last 10-12 years or so and pbly longer has been persisting with incredibly out of form, mediocre players for ages.
Phrases such as ‘he’s playing a role’, ‘guarding space’, ‘blocking’, ‘applies pressure’, ‘has good attack’, ‘has good leadership’ etc are and have been prevalent on this forum for what feels like an eternity.

I know because I’ve been complaining for years about the metrics that people use to rationalise performance that has nothing to do with what a player does on the field that actually effects the game.

McQualter in 2010
Schneider, Gwilt, Jones and Gilbert in later years
Weller
Newnes
Longer
Kent
Etc etc

At least 2 forumites have told me that I’ve been obsessive on the topic

All of them played mediocre game after mediocre game with the odd delight in the lead up to the end and most ahead of guys like a Hind that had good qualities but were horribly underdeveloped and inconsistent.

But why the fascination with Hill beyond the fact that he gets paid a lot. He’s clearly top 22 and churning out regular good to excellent performances even if he’s had patches of really bad form. He’s certainly surpassed all of those in terms of contribution in say their last 2-3 years on the list above whilst getting substantially more heat.
And the connection to Hind is odd to me to.

Hill didn’t keep Hind out of the time - the blunder clearly was made by the coaches who once again incorrectly identified how to best use a player and their overall quality.

It’s starting to feel like the perception on this forum is that everything is Hill’s fault. Heaven forbid he misses a tall target these days because every mistake gets highlighted to death


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1917455Post samuraisaint »

Tonight is proof positive we should have held on to all three of these guys.
All three.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919002Post samuraisaint »

Well, I am extremely happy to say - a second gamer outrucked him in the forward line tonight!!!!
And Marshall was no slouch either.
Looks like we kept the right ruckman after all :D
I love to be wrong sometimes!!!

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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919008Post magnifisaint »

Hickey got smashed by Marshall.
Marshall was a beast tonight.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919012Post Ghost Like »

Yep, Hind is the only one we miss out of those 3 & that's only because we never played him off half back.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919017Post samuraisaint »

magnifisaint wrote: Sat 07 Aug 2021 11:37pm Hickey got smashed by Marshall.
Marshall was a beast tonight.
Sharman was great too.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919028Post CURLY »

Ghost Like wrote: Sat 07 Aug 2021 11:40pm Yep, Hind is the only one we miss out of those 3 & that's only because we never played him off half back.
Do we though?

Sinclair was brilliant again

Webster smashed Paton another big scalp

Coffield smashed Heeney


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919040Post Ghost Like »

CURLY wrote: Sat 07 Aug 2021 11:52pm
Ghost Like wrote: Sat 07 Aug 2021 11:40pm Yep, Hind is the only one we miss out of those 3 & that's only because we never played him off half back.
Do we though?

Sinclair was brilliant again

Webster smashed Paton another big scalp

Coffield smashed Heeney
Hind has had a great year, the equal of Sinclair's, better than Webster's & Coffield's. The other two, Hickey & Bruce should not even be thought about.

Better off putting Acres, Newnes, McEvoy's & Cripps' names there.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919041Post CURLY »

Ghost Like wrote: Sat 07 Aug 2021 11:58pm
CURLY wrote: Sat 07 Aug 2021 11:52pm
Ghost Like wrote: Sat 07 Aug 2021 11:40pm Yep, Hind is the only one we miss out of those 3 & that's only because we never played him off half back.
Do we though?

Sinclair was brilliant again

Webster smashed Paton another big scalp

Coffield smashed Heeney
Hind has had a great year, the equal of Sinclair's, better than Webster's & Coffield's. The other two, Hickey & Bruce should not even be thought about.

Better off putting Acres, Newnes, McEvoy's & Cripps' names there.

Webster has been far better than Hind.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919050Post Ghost Like »

If you say so, I don't agree. Not a huge difference but Hind's run & dash tears zoning defence apart. He makes a slow midfield look quicker.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919059Post CURLY »

Ghost Like wrote: Sun 08 Aug 2021 12:11am If you say so, I don't agree. Not a huge difference but Hind's run & dash tears zoning defence apart. He makes a slow midfield look quicker.
Webster playing on Martin Papley Cameron and so on. Hasn’t been beaten.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919078Post B.M »

Hind doesn’t play Webster’s role

He plays as a running back, like Hill and Sinclair


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919080Post CURLY »

B.M wrote: Sun 08 Aug 2021 1:01am Hind doesn’t play Webster’s role

He plays as a running back, like Hill and Sinclair
Well we have Hill and Sinclair


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919122Post kosifantutti »

Hickey was instrumental in Swans getting it out of the centre last night. Marshall beat him around the ground.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919219Post samuraisaint »

kosifantutti wrote: Sun 08 Aug 2021 9:32am Hickey was instrumental in Swans getting it out of the centre last night. Marshall beat him around the ground.
Marshall 8 clearances - not bad
25 disposals
29 hit outs

Definitely beat him around the ground.

How many hit outs did Sharman get in ruck contests in the forward line?


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919221Post Ghost Like »

Marshall is the mobile, marking half of our ruck. Paddy is the one we need in the centre bounces, especially now the AFL have their very own netball rule in place.

I really hope Max Heath has a thirst for knowledge, tactics and inspiration whilst he's lucky enough to have Ryder at training.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919264Post Scollop »

kosifantutti wrote: Sun 08 Aug 2021 9:32am Hickey was instrumental in Swans getting it out of the centre last night. Marshall beat him around the ground.
Agreed

Haven’t looked at the stats but RoMa would have probably doubled Tom’s contested possessions

Marshall was also crucial at times for us to take control in the back half with his contested marks


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919281Post B.M »

Can’t teach what Ryder can do in the centre square ruck contest

It’s innate, having deft touch is down to pure talent - otherwise every ruckman could do it

It’s like teaching someone to pitch in golf

They can learn the mechanics but distance control is a feel thing and can’t be taught


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919306Post Ghost Like »

B.M wrote: Sun 08 Aug 2021 6:49pm Can’t teach what Ryder can do in the centre square ruck contest

It’s innate, having deft touch is down to pure talent - otherwise every ruckman could do it

It’s like teaching someone to pitch in golf

They can learn the mechanics but distance control is a feel thing and can’t be taught
Try a different analogy, you can teach a person to chip. In fact you can teach someone many different ways to chip. Feel comes from practice and understanding of the many different variables that can come into play with each chip.

What Paddy cannot teach, which is a god given talent, is his sublime leap. Body positioning, using your strength and understanding the oppositions strength as well as working with a midfield can be lessons learned.

Who would you rather he spend time with, Paddy Ryder or Hunter?


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919317Post saynta »

Bruce, suspected ruptured ACL.


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Re: Hickey, Bruce and Hind

Post: # 1919318Post B.M »

Ghost

I know people who have played for 20 years and are single figures and can’t pitch.

Pitching and chipping action can be taught (as I alluded to)

Distance control cannot be taught - that is straight from the head coach at MGA.

But hey

You’d know better than him


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