Junction Oval in funding crisis.

[shanegrambeau]

Everyone will hate on me for saying it…

1) I sincerely believe that ultimately St Kilda will be a powerhouse at the JO
2) Moorabbin is a quiet backwater (no longer has the energy it had in the 1960s with boomers and HR Holdens)
3) Victorian Cricket is in crisis financially and their JO funding is hurting them even more than ever with COVID, loss of sponsors, exit of big personalities from Big Bash like Dunsatll and McGuire.
4) it might not happen in my lifetime. (57 now)

5) we should urge for one home game there a year. (And not NZ or China)
6) Remember attendance of 7000-12000 were not uncommon for minor games just a few decades ago, and yet footy was bigger.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/cric ... ts-1221979

Barker, a consensus choice as chairman, is facing a likely further erosion of his support on the CV board itself later this year, with longtime directors Paul Jackson and Claudia Fatone facing re-election in the face of mounting opposition from delegates. The CV board is composed of six delegate-elected directors and three independently appointed directors. At the same time the construction of the A$40 million Junction Oval training and administration hub offered Victoria some of the best facilities in the country but also added significantly to the association's cost base.

[Wayne42]

No point reheating the J.O. Souffle.
The club has already had a go at the Junction Oval and failed big time, couldn't wait to get into debt and move to Moorabbin.

[Trev from the Bush]

So, the truth has come out.

Shanegrambeau is actually Dave McNamara!

[WellardSaint]

This is an idea from left field.
And will stay there.

Why would the Saints become a powerhouse just by relocating?

There's salary cap for players, soft cap for club admin...
For various reasons, we've tasted some good eras under Sheldon, Alves, Thommo, Lyon...
But couldn't get the ultimate.
Changing training premises ain't gonna help

[ace]

This is an idea from left field.
And will stay there.

Why would the Saints become a powerhouse just by relocating?

There's salary cap for players, soft cap for club admin...
For various reasons, we've tasted some good eras under Sheldon, Alves, Thommo, Lyon...
But couldn't get the ultimate.
Changing training premises ain't gonna help

Actually when you look at a map of the Albert Park sports complex, the JO is way out RIGHT field.
Left field would be the running track that has replaced the Swans old ground and the MSAC swimming pools.

[Impatient Sainter]

Moorabbin has been developed and is a cutting edge facility, which everyone is happy with. There is no reason to move!

[ace]

Moorabbin has been developed and is a cutting edge facility, which everyone is happy with. There is no reason to move!

If the club does not move it may not go into bankruptcy.
How else is the AFL going to get rid of the club ?

[shanegrambeau]

Moorabbin has been developed and is a cutting edge facility, which everyone is happy with. There is no reason to move!

Please understand, I say this knowing well that people are mostly fed up of this JO talk. May I ask objectively, and there is no urgency.

I contend that we would need to play one home game there for ten years…and then, if the stars align, we move. If we don’t, we play one or two games there a year, as part of the St Kilda cultural activities weekends etc.,

So let’s get down to nitty gritty.

Sorry Moorabbin folks, but Moorabbin is now a lovely leafy family suburb. A great place to raise kids or live a quite suburban life.

But it is dead culturally. It is irrelevant geographically except for the old school base of supporters , the baby boomers who joined the push away from the nasty, dirty gritty and dangerous ‘infested’ inner city suburbs in the post-war era.

St Kilda, on the other hand is a magnet. An iconic magnet for tourists, and when I mean tourists, I mean people from Parkdale to Peru! , Chelsea to China!

They WILL try to see an AFL game in St Kilda, and they will book online six months ahead to do it.

St Kilda is prosperous and extravagant, porous, accessible, visual, stimulating the senses as well as being rich in history.

History means nothing?
Absolutely not…look at the EPL Clubs in England and how they have taken the world by storm. And it’s all based on their ‘superficial historic image’.

I also content that the old folks from the Moorabbin days will enjoy a trip to St Kilda as much as one to Marvell or the MCG.

Now, what about these ideas of ‘cutting edge’ facilities developed at Moorabbin? Or about the idea Cricket Victoria and it’s ‘cutting edge’ facilities.

I say meh….we had ‘em at Seaford too. And we can move em at a drop of a hat as they regularly are at other clubs.
Noe Cricket Victoria and their JO team. Yes, they are like Gold Coast, they are a gang with an agenda, promises, hard won political victories, grim compromises and a slick PR campaign….they are also pretty broke.

I see the biggest obstacle being their ingrained political connections, and the wheeling and dealing done by Collingwood and co to get cricket out of the MCG…that’s right, keep cricket out of the MelbourneCricket Ground. And put it at the JO, based on the promise that football (disgracefully) in my humble opinion, is tipped out of there and banned.

By the way, footy is dying in Melbourne’s heartland and instead of pursuing fans in China (cynical political posturing and fake IMO) they should pay more attention to the suburbs that made footy work..basically anywhere where a tram still runs.

That’s where I stand.

All these arrangements can change…but we can count on a lot of bluff by stake holders trying to defend their patch.

And any talk of JO being a sh#t hole etc., that is easily dealt with. Improve it…we have seen trillions pumped into inner development since the Kate ‘80s, including footy facilities.

[saynta]

Moorabbin has been developed and is a cutting edge facility, which everyone is happy with. There is no reason to move!

Please understand, I say this knowing well that people are mostly fed up of this JO talk. May I ask objectively, and there is no urgency.

I contend that we would need to play one home game there for ten years…and then, if the stars align, we move. If we don’t, we play one or two games there a year, as part of the St Kilda cultural activities weekends etc.,

So let’s get down to nitty gritty.

Sorry Moorabbin folks, but Moorabbin is now a lovely leafy family suburb. A great place to raise kids or live a quite suburban life.

But it is dead culturally. It is irrelevant geographically except for the old school base of supporters , the baby boomers who joined the push away from the nasty, dirty gritty and dangerous ‘infested’ inner city suburbs in the post-war era.

St Kilda, on the other hand is a magnet. An iconic magnet for tourists, and when I mean tourists, I mean people from Parkdale to Peru! , Chelsea to China!

They WILL try to see an AFL game in St Kilda, and they will book online six months ahead to do it.

St Kilda is prosperous and extravagant, porous, accessible, visual, stimulating the senses as well as being rich in history.

History means nothing?
Absolutely not…look at the EPL Clubs in England and how they have taken the world by storm. And it’s all based on their ‘superficial historic image’.

I also content that the old folks from the Moorabbin days will enjoy a trip to St Kilda as much as one to Marvell or the MCG.

Now, what about these ideas of ‘cutting edge’ facilities developed at Moorabbin? Or about the idea Cricket Victoria and it’s ‘cutting edge’ facilities.

I say meh….we had ‘em at Seaford too. And we can move em at a drop of a hat as they regularly are at other clubs.
Noe Cricket Victoria and their JO team. Yes, they are like Gold Coast, they are a gang with an agenda, promises, hard won political victories, grim compromises and a slick PR campaign….they are also pretty broke.

I see the biggest obstacle being their ingrained political connections, and the wheeling and dealing done by Collingwood and co to get cricket out of the MCG…that’s right, keep cricket out of the MelbourneCricket Ground. And put it at the JO, based on the promise that football (disgracefully) in my humble opinion, is tipped out of there and banned.

By the way, footy is dying in Melbourne’s heartland and instead of pursuing fans in China (cynical political posturing and fake IMO) they should pay more attention to the suburbs that made footy work..basically anywhere where a tram still runs.

That’s where I stand.

All these arrangements can change…but we can count on a lot of bluff by stake holders trying to defend their patch.

And any talk of JO being a sh#t hole etc., that is easily dealt with. Improve it…we have seen trillions pumped into inner development since the Kate ‘80s, including footy facilities.

Well, you got it right in the end. The JO is a shithole.

[skeptic]

As someone whose not overly invested one way or another…

How would address the issue of other stake holders and sharing the grounds?

And… I’m what way are you perceiving there’ll be a benefit?
More attendance/members? More players wanting to come to St.Kilda? Not being critical, would just like to understand

[shanegrambeau]

As someone whose not overly invested one way or another…

How would address the issue of other stake holders and sharing the grounds?

And… I’m what way are you perceiving there’ll be a benefit?
More attendance/members? More players wanting to come to St.Kilda? Not being critical, would just like to understand

1) survival….that St Kilda survives….as a club, as an entity. St Kilda profile….must expand into the kind of supporters we used to have….come and go…casual…happy go lucky…fringe perhaps…

2) It will be tough for St Kilda to build an identity going forward at Moorabbin and shared stadium at Marvell for Sunday twilight games…

3) St Kilda is St Koda is St Kilda kinda thing…if you get my drift…

It’s not Cheltenham is Cheltenham is Cheltenham…

Saynta!
Ha!
I thought you might chime in with your sh#those statement. Once a sh#thole, always a sh#thole hey? I guess the real estate developers that turned inner Melbourne terrace dumps into 4 million dollar yuppies pads weren’t listening….more power to them! And their Porches.

[roskilde]

Moorabbin has been developed and is a cutting edge facility, which everyone is happy with. There is no reason to move!

History means nothing?
Absolutely not…look at the EPL Clubs in England and how they have taken the world by storm. And it’s all based on their ‘superficial historic image’.

Its a nice romantic idea but let's be honest that has literally nothing to do with the epl success. The epl clubs owe their success to dodgy billionaires and a massively lucrative TV deal and nothing more. No one -- or few -- cares about the Busby babe's or Manchester's role in the industrial revolution and no one but my old dad follows Liverpool just because it's the home of the Beatles. The clubs are rich.

We aren't right now and the JO and nostalgia can't help that.

[shanegrambeau]

Moorabbin has been developed and is a cutting edge facility, which everyone is happy with. There is no reason to

History means nothing?
Absolutely not…look at the EPL Clubs in England and how they have taken the world by storm. And it’s all based on their ‘superficial historic image’.

Its a nice romantic idea but let's be honest that has literally nothing to do with the epl success. The epl clubs owe their success to dodgy billionaires and a massively lucrative TV deal and nothing more. No one cares about the busy babe's or Manchester's role in the industrial revolution and no one but my old dad follows Liverpool just because it's the home of the Beatles. The clubs are rich.

We aren't right now and the JO and nostalgia can't help that.

Rock!
How did you do that…it looks like your quote was written by me!

Well I’m done …lol…

Dodgy billionaires buy these clubs for one reason….they are known global entities with ‘romance’ attached to their superficial image. They billionaires do it for prestige among their peers and giggles I suppose…power…status…get the beautiful wife. Etc., etc.. yep, it’s dodgy but it is certainly very human.

Liverpool is a name….and a place…it has currency. Everton is not. The only power Everton has is b6 wa6 of association with Liverpool.

St Kilda is also a known place. It’s all relative of course….and AFL being seen a quirky and violent game rather than a world game of course counts…
But within Australia, and the diaspora of travelers, one year work visa people etc..it is gradually more well known.

I think there is more chance, a billionaire visiting Melbourne will be inclined to visit training facilities and dine around St Kilda than Moorabbin. Although I did like the steamed dimmies behind Moorabbin station for a while.

[shanegrambeau]

Moorabbin has been developed and is a cutting edge facility, which everyone is happy with. There is no reason to

History means nothing?
Absolutely not…look at the EPL Clubs in England and how they have taken the world by storm. And it’s all based on their ‘superficial historic image’.

Its a nice romantic idea but let's be honest that has literally nothing to do with the epl success. The epl clubs owe their success to dodgy billionaires and a massively lucrative TV deal and nothing more. No one cares about the busy babe's or Manchester's role in the industrial revolution and no one but my old dad follows Liverpool just because it's the home of the Beatles. The clubs are rich.

We aren't right now and the JO and nostalgia can't help that.

Rock!
How did you do that…it looks like your quote was written by me!

Well I’m done …lol…

Dodgy billionaires buy these clubs for one reason….they are known global entities with ‘romance’ attached to their superficial image. They billionaires do it for prestige among their peers and giggles I suppose…power…status…get the beautiful wife. Etc., etc.. yep, it’s dodgy but it is certainly very human.

Liverpool is a name….and a place…it has currency. Everton is not. The only power Everton has is b6 wa6 of association with Liverpool.

St Kilda is also a known place. It’s all relative of course….and AFL being seen a quirky and violent game rather than a world game of course counts…
But within Australia, and the diaspora of travelers, one year work visa people etc..it is gradually more well known.

I think there is more chance, a billionaire visiting Melbourne will be inclined to visit training facilities and dine around St Kilda than Moorabbin. Although I did like the steamed dimmies behind Moorabbin station for a while.

Ffs

I just did the same!

[roskilde]

Haha sorry. I'm on my phone and will edit when I get home so it doesn't look like I'm putting words in your mouth.

[shanegrambeau]

Haha sorry. I'm on my phone and will edit when I get home so it doesn't look like I'm putting words in your mouth.

We should be all good..

[spert]

Should have a one off match at JO similar to 3RRR Community Cup. Bands playing before match, half time and after the match. We could get Meatloaf to open the show

[WellardSaint]

Having one game a year at JO is gonna magically make us a top 4 team.
Cool story.

[amusingname]

As I have asked every time this topic was raised in the past few years, usually by Dave McNamara, I will ask again now. Why would the club consider pouring money into a ground with the aim of playing a game to draw 15,000 fans max, when the AFL have expressly stated they have no interest in scheduling any games elsewhere in Melbourne than the MCG and the ground that they own, Marvel Stadium?

I also can’t see a huge amount of tourists really embracing the idea of a cold Melbourne day in a very open old school ground regardless of how ‘cool’ people see the suburb of St Kilda being!

[shanegrambeau]

As I have asked every time this topic was raised in the past few years, usually by Dave McNamara, I will ask again now. Why would the club consider pouring money into a ground with the aim of playing a game to draw 15,000 fans max, when the AFL have expressly stated they have no interest in scheduling any games elsewhere in Melbourne than the MCG and the ground that they own, Marvel Stadium?

I also can’t see a huge amount of tourists really embracing the idea of a cold Melbourne day in a very open old school ground regardless of how ‘cool’ people see the suburb of St Kilda being!

I think these are relatively easy to answer.

1) St Kilda doesn't pay directly...St Kilda isn't liquid...it is on the drip already. Is in debt and is subsidized as a club...we are currently a drain on the purse strings of the powerhouse clubs and the AFL in general. That will persist if we stay at Moorabbin and play Sunday twilight at Marvel all things being equal. I would say within 30 years, St Kilda as a club may be gone. So the AFL, other clubs, sponsors and St Kilda itself has an incentive to move toward the JO, at first for 'occasion games' . Local investors, government subsidies (look what Geelong has achieved! A home ground...gift after gift from local and state governments...) the AFL, TV, international inverstors can all pour in.. No oil baron gives a damn about Moorabbin...and it can never be used for matches again because of it's location - St Kilda has trams and light rail and is a place to hang before after the footy too.

2) 15K crowds will be the norm and its TV that matters... I think the days of big crowds are over and crowds at the gate make up a small chunk - already less than 20% (and falling) - of revenue. It is TV etc...

3) St Kilda will not be a powerhouse playing one game there BUT they will vastly improve their standing in Melbourne and among visitors to the area...which are huge numbers..

4) St Kilda will be a destination club.

5) Toursits don't care about the cold day..THey want a picture for snapchat and Instagram to say they went to the 'footy' and saw iconic St Kilda play!

[WellardSaint]

I lived 34 years of my life in Melbourne.
Now in Perth.
I remember the bitterly cold Melb winters.
Any tourist visiting and wanting to have a squiz at a JO game, will do it for the novelty, and head straight back to the warmth of the Air BnB or hotel, and turn on the heater.
SIghtseeing in a cold climate is fine if it's Xmas in New York, or Paris, or London, but Melb is nothing like those drawcards.
It's far too cold, wet and miserable.

I think you've been in the land of the Rising Sun for too long- you've forgotten your roots and have selective amnesia hahaha

[amusingname]

As I have asked every time this topic was raised in the past few years, usually by Dave McNamara, I will ask again now. Why would the club consider pouring money into a ground with the aim of playing a game to draw 15,000 fans max, when the AFL have expressly stated they have no interest in scheduling any games elsewhere in Melbourne than the MCG and the ground that they own, Marvel Stadium?

I also can’t see a huge amount of tourists really embracing the idea of a cold Melbourne day in a very open old school ground regardless of how ‘cool’ people see the suburb of St Kilda being!

I think these are relatively easy to answer.

1) St Kilda doesn't pay directly...St Kilda isn't liquid...it is on the drip already. Is in debt and is subsidized as a club...we are currently a drain on the purse strings of the powerhouse clubs and the AFL in general. That will persist if we stay at Moorabbin and play Sunday twilight at Marvel all things being equal. I would say within 30 years, St Kilda as a club may be gone. So the AFL, other clubs, sponsors and St Kilda itself has an incentive to move toward the JO, at first for 'occasion games' . Local investors, government subsidies (look what Geelong has achieved! A home ground...gift after gift from local and state governments...) the AFL, TV, international inverstors can all pour in.. No oil baron gives a damn about Moorabbin...and it can never be used for matches again because of it's location - St Kilda has trams and light rail and is a place to hang before after the footy too.

2) 15K crowds will be the norm and its TV that matters... I think the days of big crowds are over and crowds at the gate make up a small chunk - already less than 20% (and falling) - of revenue. It is TV etc...

3) St Kilda will not be a powerhouse playing one game there BUT they will vastly improve their standing in Melbourne and among visitors to the area...which are huge numbers..

4) St Kilda will be a destination club.

5) Toursits don't care about the cold day..THey want a picture for snapchat and Instagram to say they went to the 'footy' and saw iconic St Kilda play!

So TV is the future and the crowds don’t matter, so why would the AFL and others put money into a ground when they have their own ground that is basically a TV sound stage at Marvel?

[desertsaint]

i'm not sure too many international tourists would be enticed by the thought of going to a game of footy at a small boutique stadium. be more appealing to experience a massive crowd at the g for those inclined to taste some local sporting flavour.
but i do agree tying st kilda's identity with st kilda is important long term. for future generations of melbourne and australian footy fans rather than tourists. the reasoning is sound, image is very important, tradition is important, the market is wrong.

[Dave McNamara]

Said it then, saying it now. Those people running Cricket Victoria have no vision, and now it's being shown, no competence.

The Junction Oval remains the long game for our club.

And its occupancy was never a zero sum game. It can still be a win/win. Cricket Victoria needs us.







And to posters who may not have liked the state of the ground or the attitude of the cricket club back in the day (and rightly so)... fair enough, but that was the past. The future needs to be, and can be, made better.

I look forward to buying drinks for the likes of Firey, Saynta, Trev and Pluggsy (and definitely you Shane G, if/when you're in the country ) at a Saintas' home game at the JO.

It will happen. Just needs a bit of vision, and a bit of faith.

[Dave McNamara]

As I have asked every time this topic was raised in the past few years, usually by Dave McNamara, I will ask again now. Why would the club consider pouring money into a ground with the aim of playing a game to draw 15,000 fans max, when the AFL have expressly stated they have no interest in scheduling any games elsewhere in Melbourne than the MCG and the ground that they own, Marvel Stadium?

I also can’t see a huge amount of tourists really embracing the idea of a cold Melbourne day in a very open old school ground regardless of how ‘cool’ people see the suburb of St Kilda being!

Hi AM.

The figures, rationale, etc, are all in the Homeward Bound thread.
http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... start=1500

But for starters...

Under the old Dockedlands deal:
We got a crowd of 26,000 against the Swines. We paid Dockedland $73K(!)

The Hillbillies make $820K profit per home game.

Average crowd... yep... 26,000.

A crowd of 15,000 at the JO would be profitable.

And like the Hillbillies, we'd win most of them.

That would mean we'd play finals more often.

That would mean more sponsorship $$$.

And would mean we'd be a destination club. (The likes of Dangerfield and Cameron would come to us and accept unders, as they did to go to Kardinia Park.)