Do you enjoy supporting the Saints?

[terry smith rules]

Right now I feel like if the club folded it would be a huge weight lifted.

I said to my wife this morning that the losses cause far greater anguish than any joy I take from the wins

I feel that the continual seasons of failure are just overwhelming

I was thinking when was the last young player that we recruited that we could follow their full careers and enjoy (yes Max could be that) but before that probably the early 2000s with all those greats . That’s a ridiculous wait for a good player.

Now of course all those emotions are on me and in reality should I expect so much from a sporting club to boost my happiness. However the investment that we put in, it can’t be good for us. But when you look forward to a game all week and then half way through the first quarter you can see the writing on the wall, it’s horrible.

Any FQF is teetering right now

[The_Dud]

I saw a stat the other day that apart from GC, St Kilda have by far the worst win percentage all-time, at below 40%

We’re suckers for punishment!

[B.M]

No I don’t

It’s a constant let down

Can’t wait for Tassie to come in!

[st.byron]

Nope. Cant get the buggers out of my system because of a lifetime spent watching, supporting and caring. But something shifted this year - after the Bummers flogging in particular - and I gave up hoping. Maybe in fact I never will see a flag in my lifetime. You're right Terry having too much emotional investment in them is not a good thing. Not when they're serially mediocre.

[skeptic]

I’m pretty good with the whole thing

Took me a long tome to get over 97, and I don’t think I’m there RE 09-10 yet

The GT era for me was the first and only time we’ve ever capable of shifting the paradigm…
There was a certain ‘why do we need to keep doing things the loser way that we know doesn’t work’ about it which for all his faults I thought was the right thing

Things aren’t working, think out of the box, try different things and take risks.

If only he was a better coach I guess

Since we had RL squander all of the long term building blocks whilst adding SFA new himself and we’ve reverted back to that old school mentality of play it safe, go with what we know and hope things somehow exceed expectations.

It’s been a very hard 10 years watching us persevere with plans that an objective observer knows can quickly surmise won’t work…
And that’s our problem

We’re not objective. I hoped like heck that Ratten could adopt that logical tact but he too seems to want to persevere with idiotic things.

Guess it’s just easier once you lower the expectations

[bangaulegend]

I love the Saints they have pretty much consumed me for nearly 60 years but it's a bloody tough gig being a Saint supporter definitely not enjoyable ATM

[SydneySainter]

On the rare occasion when we have a good win, or at least look like we’re heading north, sure.

But, year after year, nope.

The last 10 years particularly - watching teams like the Cats, Tigers and even the Dogs establish maintained success while we still keep one step north, two steps south.

I actually think as supporters we’ve not only come to accept it, but even embrace it.

How long as Finnis been CEO, yet there seems to be an alarming contentedness with his tenure.

The fact that the move back to Moorabbin seemed to be such a priority just says to me that the club is stuck in the mud.

[damienc]

This thread is both sad and true. Of all the clubs in the AFL this one is the most consistently disappointing. Just when you think we are close, or show something or look as if we finally have a side to go all the way, we are disappointed. One Premiership in 65 years says it all. Bad recruiting ( we're so good at this) Bad administrators , bad coaching, no real game plan that works or an alternative. I sound so negative and don't want to be. But like I said our track record speaks for itself. I feel we are years away of being competitive

[The Peanut]

I will just have to happy with watching Max's development and be willing to wait for Paddy's return next year to see a game that gives me some satisfaction to watch. In the meantime I'll watch the last remaining games just because I feel I'm obliged to.

[st.byron]

I will just have to happy with watching Max's development and be willing to wait for Paddy's return next year to see a game that gives me some satisfaction to watch. In the meantime I'll watch the last remaining games just because I feel I'm obliged to.

Isn't that shyte that that's all you have. Better choice for me to not be so invested. Life is better that way.

[Sanctorum]

I agree that last night's loss as well as others this year have been really difficult to endure, guess it is a consequence of such a good result in 2020 and the expectation by the club, supporters and media commentators that St Kilda's window was definitely opening.

To have it slammed shut so disgracefully last night, against an opponent that was rated well below our team, made it all the harder to bear...

But we've been through this many times before and so we have to put that behind us and hope and pray that 2022 will be better - what choice have we got??

"Dum spiro spero" - "While I breathe, I hope"

[Banger9798]

More pain than pleasure
It's like a maze I can't get out of.
Either we win a premiership, the club folds or I die....then the torment will end...only one of those is a certainty.

[Impatient Sainter]

TBH no - it causes more heart ache than it should!

[skeptic]

I also just find it soooo frustrating that we can’t develop and stick to a long term plan

GT invests in youth, gets sacked after finishes of 4th, 4th and 6th - 5 years later RL runs the list into the ground developing no youth

Saints go to Tassie then leave Tassie after a couple of years
Commit to ventures in NZ and Shanghai and abandon them immediately

Commit to Moorabbin, then go to Seaford, then back to Moorabbin

Align with Casey, abandon Casey, commit to Sandy… all the talk is of own reserves team

About the only thing we’ve persevered with as late was Richo

We just need to have some long term thinking in our wheelhouse

[shanegrambeau]

It’s scary to imagine some kinda co-dependence thang goin on. Like you have an unhealthy relationship with the losing and shambolic side of St Kilda. The horse with a crooked gallop running the wrong way around the course causing havoc and amusement at the same time..In my case, the devastating decline and the shocking performances from 1975 were only reconciled in the mid 80s, with hangman’s humor and when I made a friend and buddy at uni who was a St Kilda tragic but quite unlike me, was a singular and spectacular success at sport, academic stuff, with girls, with society as a whole. The guy ticked every box and we could have a laugh at our consecutive 100+ point losses around then. And then with Plugger and our bevy of heroes…I just never expected to win.. and maybe became a tad too comforted by our derelict state…kind of ‘cool’ ya know.

Of course, that blows up in 1991, in that final at Waverley seeing Plugger miss etc. the ball bouncing off Harding’s chest as we let our lead slip and are overwhelmed. 1997 just shattering.

So I agree with Skeptic, GT s era did change the paradigm for my perspective of St Kilda and even myself! That is ten scary codependent thing.


Hopefully, I am separated and compartmentalized safely now! Notice the use of compartment and mental in that word!

Anyway, yesterday was another ship wreck of a night.

[evertonfc]

It's been very hard to accept the lower expectations and embrace of relative mediocrity after the concerted push for greatness between 2004-11.

It's also tough to deal with the fact that very few of the admin or coaching staff feel like they're going to be the ones who will set us up to succeed. We kind of just exist under the current direction. I really miss that period where we loaded the gun and were prepared to pull the trigger.

[Teflon]

I also just find it soooo frustrating that we can’t develop and stick to a long term plan

GT invests in youth, gets sacked after finishes of 4th, 4th and 6th - 5 years later RL runs the list into the ground developing no youth

Saints go to Tassie then leave Tassie after a couple of years
Commit to ventures in NZ and Shanghai and abandon them immediately

Commit to Moorabbin, then go to Seaford, then back to Moorabbin

Align with Casey, abandon Casey, commit to Sandy… all the talk is of own reserves team

About the only thing we’ve persevered with as late was Richo

We just need to have some long term thinking in our wheelhouse

Sorry don’t want another GT v Lyon thread but let’s stop reinventing the past when it comes to “GT”
The guy had the best balance of youth and hard as nails experienced Saints list we’ve had for decades and couldn’t get it done. When sides played defensively or clamped down on us GT had zero answers and I still don’t forgive him for playing injured players in 2005 prelim. Perhaps if he invested more $$ in “training services” instead of South African junkets so he could “round out young men in his image” we’d have won a flag ????????
Lyon at least instilled the belief in a side that took us to successive GFs and had it not been for poor execution in first half 2009 I believe we’d have won it.
He also reinvented the way AFL was played at the time which Malthouse and co later copied
19 straight inn2009 - the ONLY time I’d go to the footy abs just expect to win cause we were that good
GT could only dream of being half the coach Lyon was and isn’t it surprising.....no one is knocking on GTs door to coach in the AFL
Plenty talk of Lyon still and if he wanted to he could easily accept another gig and with a 60+ win % why would t he??

Back on thread
No relationship with this club is not healthy
I’ve learnt (and it worked last night) to just walk away and at half time I did. It made me feel so much better
I didn’t crack the shytes or have m family notice I’m grumpy after watching another slow St Kikda car crash
Downside of that....,as more supporters do it...,we become less relevant ....Fitzroy like almost

[skeptic]

I also just find it soooo frustrating that we can’t develop and stick to a long term plan

GT invests in youth, gets sacked after finishes of 4th, 4th and 6th - 5 years later RL runs the list into the ground developing no youth

Saints go to Tassie then leave Tassie after a couple of years
Commit to ventures in NZ and Shanghai and abandon them immediately

Commit to Moorabbin, then go to Seaford, then back to Moorabbin

Align with Casey, abandon Casey, commit to Sandy… all the talk is of own reserves team

About the only thing we’ve persevered with as late was Richo

We just need to have some long term thinking in our wheelhouse

Sorry don’t want another GT v Lyon thread but let’s stop reinventing the past when it comes to “GT”
The guy had the best balance of youth and hard as nails experienced Saints list we’ve had for decades and couldn’t get it done. When sides played defensively or clamped down on us GT had zero answers and I still don’t forgive him for playing injured players in 2005 prelim. Perhaps if he invested more $$ in “training services” instead of South African junkets so he could “round out young men in his image” we’d have won a flag ????????
Lyon at least instilled the belief in a side that took us to successive GFs and had it not been for poor execution in first half 2009 I believe we’d have won it.
He also reinvented the way AFL was played at the time which Malthouse and co later copied
19 straight inn2009 - the ONLY time I’d go to the footy abs just expect to win cause we were that good
GT could only dream of being half the coach Lyon was and isn’t it surprising.....no one is knocking on GTs door to coach in the AFL
Plenty talk of Lyon still and if he wanted to he could easily accept another gig and with a 60+ win % why would t he??

Back on thread
No relationship with this club is not healthy
I’ve learnt (and it worked last night) to just walk away and at half time I did. It made me feel so much better
I didn’t crack the shytes or have m family notice I’m grumpy after watching another slow St Kikda car crash
Downside of that....,as more supporters do it...,we become less relevant ....Fitzroy like almost

Thought you might comment and agree that this shouldn’t be a GT v RL…
Few would argue RL wasn’t a better coach… regardless, GT didn’t have an opportunity to finish what he started or readjust and RL didn’t adopt a long term approach at either club he coached

Rather than doing the vs discussion… the point there is that on an admin level we don’t focus past the short term at all

I’m admittedly a bigger GT fan than most and am more critical of RL then most so apologies if I’ve painted that narrative more than intended. We all have our biases

[B.M]

It funny

Training camps

And

Training services (otherwise known as fitness departments)

Both became common place in AFL Footy

As did community camps.

Injuries at the wrong time killed us in 04, 05, 06

Lyon - Much better tactical coach, match day coach, team coach
Equal as leaders and motivators
GT - much better developer of talent, Entire list coach

GT better staff manager
Lyon better at creating a high performance environment

Lyon would go weeks and not speak to players not in the best 22
Often used young players at training as moving witches hats

GT extremely basic game plan and no real defensive strategy

Lyon introduced frontal pressure and half ground press

Both these coaches had massive strengths as senior coaches
Both had one major flaw (in different areas)

[Scollop]

Please can one of the AFL clubs employ Ross Lyon as a senior coach…just not us hopefully - we’ve already been there

His career was built on hard work over an extensive period of time in the industry as an assistant coach. He earnt his chance. No doubt. He was lucky enough to have two blokes close to him who would have a big part in helping him secure his first senior gig. Walls and Roos were influential men in AFL and both assisted him at the start and through his early years in the role

Ross Lyon got the senior job with the St Kilda footy club in 2006 when we’d just played off in finals (and prelim finals in 2004 and 2005) and then when he got his second senior gig at Fremantle he again went to club that had the core of a team that had recently played off in a prelim final.

His overall win loss ratio needs to come down to reflect his true worth and his reputation, which in my opinion is more a tale of timing. You know what they say about being in the right place at the right time.

I’m going to start a “Free Ross Lyon from his media incarceration” website or a GoFundme page to subsidise some of his salary and bloody get Ross Lyon back into coaching. Do it for the true believers. I’m sure Paul Roos and Robert Walls and Luke Darcy will be on board.

Why is it that all these clubs out there don’t understand that he is the best coach in the last 20 years and he’s won multiple McLellan trophies? Don’t stress too much if he’s lost a Grand final or two. Forget about his finals win loss ratio... Just imagine the short term joy that fans will have

Hand him a list that is developed and has proven they are finals experienced and choc full of talent and I guarantee you he is your man. Take the teams who haven’t been able to get over the line…. Surely GWS or Geelong or Adelaide or Collingwood could see that? What is wrong with them!!

[Teflon]

It funny

Training camps

And

Training services (otherwise known as fitness departments)

Both became common place in AFL Footy

As did community camps.

Injuries at the wrong time killed us in 04, 05, 06

Lyon - Much better tactical coach, match day coach, team coach
Equal as leaders and motivators
GT - much better developer of talent, Entire list coach

GT better staff manager
Lyon better at creating a high performance environment

Lyon would go weeks and not speak to players not in the best 22
Often used young players at training as moving witches hats

GT extremely basic game plan and no real defensive strategy

Lyon introduced frontal pressure and half ground press

Both these coaches had massive strengths as senior coaches
Both had one major flaw (in different areas)

1 at 60+% win rate the other not
1 took us to successive GFs the other never even git us there
And before anyone says “yes but we still have no flags”
I’d counter by saying you first have to get to the big dance to have a shot and only Lyon achieved that
I also go off the comments from a highly respected ex Saints assistant coach under GT (who Lyon sacked) who told me directly
“Grant Thomas **** your club” and in the next sentence said “Lyon was the best, most meticulously prepared coach he’s ever seen”
But do go on and tell me how a bunch of SS keyboard warriors know he’s just wrong??????

[B.M]

Who isn’t to say this ‘assistant coach’

Has any idea WTF he’s talking about?!

[Teflon]

Who isn’t to say this ‘assistant coach’

Has any idea WTF he’s talking about?!

Lol yes you’re right he’d know less than “Big Mart on footy website”

[The Fireman]

not fold but I hear ya Terry
The side I follow depresses on a regular basis, can't be healthy.

All hope I had for next year has dissolved, maybe a good thing.. will expect more failure.

Let's not forget we aren't the only ones atm yet we still remain the most unsuccessful. Nth Supporters cant be happy but they do have flags....Carlton supporters haven't been happy but at least they have flags and know the reason why they are suffering atm...cheating.

Just to highlight how pathetic we are , we were so buoyant after a gutsy show against the Eagles...the Skunks are towelling them

[Scollop]

Just to highlight how pathetic we are , we were so buoyant after a gutsy show against the Eagles...the Skunks are towelling them

I gave you the early mail on West Coast this morning Firey. I said ‘whoever plays them will win because they’re not that good’

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