Good Bye Billings

[The Fireman]

belittling of AFL players is the past time of keyboard warriors who could only dream of having the ticker or ability to reach that level.


that aside I'm disappointed in Billings , he just hasn't lived up to his pick position. Not bagging the guy just think we need someone better and if he has the currency we should spend it.

[B.M]

What would you consider as good Compo Firey

Pick 20

[The Fireman]

What would you consider as good Compo Firey

Pick 20

tbh I think 20 would be fair.

He may have collateral in a multiple swap deal ?

[B.M]

We did spend 900k on a winger/running back

Really
That’s power mid money - Steele

Key forwards and Power Mids are what you should be spending coin on.

[Vortex]

If he's a role player at HF then for the past 2 seasons he's been a real battler in that role, 0.5 goals per game and around 2.5 i50s and 300m gained per game.

[bangaulegend]

I've said this before in other posts JB is a good player but not a great player & I don't believe he has the drive or grunt to become one. As a top 3 pick he has been serviceable but not what I hoped he might be . As B.M has said if we get a decent pick for him there's no guarantee we will get anything better in return . I would prefer to keep him but it might be a case he doesn't want to stay anyway

[Scollop]

I've said this before in other posts JB is a good player but not a great player & I don't believe he has the drive or grunt to become one. As a top 3 pick he has been serviceable but not what I hoped he might be . As B.M has said if we get a decent pick for him there's no guarantee we will get anything better in return . I would prefer to keep him but it might be a case he doesn't want to stay anyway

We could always move him to the back line so he can roam around with time and space and get a few extra kicks

Obviously it'll mean that Hill will have to start earning his keep

I'm not worried about moving Sinclair up the ground to a wing or to JB's HF role. I think Sincs is ready

[bangaulegend]

I've said this before in other posts JB is a good player but not a great player & I don't believe he has the drive or grunt to become one. As a top 3 pick he has been serviceable but not what I hoped he might be . As B.M has said if we get a decent pick for him there's no guarantee we will get anything better in return . I would prefer to keep him but it might be a case he doesn't want to stay anyway

We could always move him to the back line so he can roam around with time and space and get a few extra kicks

Obviously it'll mean that Hill will have to start earning his keep

I'm not worried about moving Sinclair up the ground to a wing or to JB's HF role. I think Sincs is ready

Sinclair has been amazing this year definitely ready IMO

[B.M]

Isn’t it interesting

Players seem to perform well in the HB line
Hill, Sinclair, Webster this year Coffield, Paton, Clark last year

Yet on the HF line the goings a bit tougher
StK careers have ended from that position
Acres, Newnes, Weller and now Billings

I think when we judge a player, we need to look at the role they have to play.

[Ghost Like]

You seem to be introducing some contradiction though and it's confusing, can you give some examples of the type of contests he never pulls out of? Sounds like you are describing an inside mid to me and I mostly see Billings running forward of contests to get on the end of distribution.

Can you please explain this question? We've posters stating JB shirks contests, yet cannot give examples. Now we have the question asking for examples of the type of contests he never pulls out of.

Surely if no one can give an example of a contest he shirks then the answer to your question is the same or simply "football contests". Isn't it?

If a backman (McKenzie / Webster) or a forward (Membrey / Lonie) never pull out of contests it does not make them an inside mid.

[Teflon]

I've watched JB since he began with us, perhaps my memory is shot but I'm struggling to remember these contests that he's shirked.

I will wager that same memory will have problems recalling the games Billings grabbed by the scruff of the neck & inspire to get the Saints over the line as well
How bout that game turning pivotal over head contested mark that stopped the oppositions run
I will settle for a match winning goal

The way I see it we have two very well paid players on the wings that rack up possessions looking like superstars because they have plenty of time to dispose playing wide, who dont really influence the game when it counts

Good players - yes - but gee great players dont stuff letting all the good work come undone with a stuff up in the last like Mr Hill

I've not made up anything to suit a narrative nor have I claimed any of those things you wish my memory to recall. That said, I'm very confident he's played some match winning games. Feel free to tell me about all these contests he's alleged to have shirked.

Interesting that Hill's stuff ups have blown back on Billings for the sake of this thread. Only on Saintsational.

How about you list all his match winning games and I’ll give you the Bulldogs game 3 years ago where he kicked 5
While you’re there line that up against a Bontempelli’s match winning games ....who deserves the big money
Billings is an ok outside player who goes missing way to often and his “lazer” foot skills are overrated

[The Barometer]

Isn’t it interesting

Players seem to perform well in the HB line
Hill, Sinclair, Webster this year Coffield, Paton, Clark last year

Yet on the HF line the goings a bit tougher
StK careers have ended from that position
Acres, Newnes, Weller and now Billings

I think when we judge a player, we need to look at the role they have to play.

No, your post is not that interesting. Acres, Newnes, Weller where not up to it. Billing is but people are debating whether we can do even better by getting some value from him. What did we get for Newnes and Weller vs what would we get for Billings?

[mad saint guy]

Billings has looked like he's been struggling with injury since the first two months of the season. Started very well but has no zip or power at the moment. In his position I'd be asking for a one year contract at 550k and then demand big money with an outstanding 2022 season.

Also needs to lift his confidence. His ball use has become very conservative. Needs a bit of Leo Connolly swagger

[BackFromUSA]

Why do posters think we can trade him?

We can't.

He is a restricted free agent.

He can sign with us

OR

He can field offers from other clubs.

If he accepts an offer from another club, THEN we have the option of matching that offer to automatically keep him.

IF we do not match the offer, he goes. NO TRADE.

The AFL then decides the draft pick compensation which is UNLIKELY to be immediately after our first round pick and as we have no second round pick (previously traded) they may give us an end of second round pick or if we are lucky - lower. A terrible return for a very very good AFL footballer with 100+ games left in him.

BUT wait there is another twist - IF we also pick up an unresticted or restricted free agent ... then I believe that we get NOTHING for Billings.

In an environment where the Salary cap is tight due to covid reductions, most caps are tight, but of most clubs other than the bottom 4 we probably have the most wiggle room with players returing or going onto reduced contracts.

Billings is a must keep for now - even if on a 2 year contract with a view to keeping or trading him after next year.

[Ghost Like]

I've watched JB since he began with us, perhaps my memory is shot but I'm struggling to remember these contests that he's shirked.

I will wager that same memory will have problems recalling the games Billings grabbed by the scruff of the neck & inspire to get the Saints over the line as well
How bout that game turning pivotal over head contested mark that stopped the oppositions run
I will settle for a match winning goal

The way I see it we have two very well paid players on the wings that rack up possessions looking like superstars because they have plenty of time to dispose playing wide, who dont really influence the game when it counts

Good players - yes - but gee great players dont stuff letting all the good work come undone with a stuff up in the last like Mr Hill

I've not made up anything to suit a narrative nor have I claimed any of those things you wish my memory to recall. That said, I'm very confident he's played some match winning games. Feel free to tell me about all these contests he's alleged to have shirked.

Interesting that Hill's stuff ups have blown back on Billings for the sake of this thread. Only on Saintsational.

How about you list all his match winning games and I’ll give you the Bulldogs game 3 years ago where he kicked 5
While you’re there line that up against a Bontempelli’s match winning games ....who deserves the big money
Billings is an ok outside player who goes missing way to often and his “lazer” foot skills are overrated

No worries. You'll get those results just as soon as you send me the link that you wanted Bontempelli at Pick 3 prior to the draft that year.

I'm a bit sick of Billings getting pilloried on this forum because of the exceptional football abilities of the Bont.

Can we also get rid of all our other players on the list who have been surpassed by other players in their draft year, just because it's not turned out in our favour?

[Vortex]

Why do posters think we can trade him?

We can't.

He is a restricted free agent.

He can sign with us

OR

He can field offers from other clubs.

If he accepts an offer from another club, THEN we have the option of matching that offer to automatically keep him.

IF we do not match the offer, he goes. NO TRADE.

The AFL then decides the draft pick compensation which is UNLIKELY to be immediately after our first round pick and as we have no second round pick (previously traded) they may give us an end of second round pick or if we are lucky - lower. A terrible return for a very very good AFL footballer with 100+ games left in him.

BUT wait there is another twist - IF we also pick up an unresticted or restricted free agent ... then I believe that we get NOTHING for Billings.

In an environment where the Salary cap is tight due to covid reductions, most caps are tight, but of most clubs other than the bottom 4 we probably have the most wiggle room with players returing or going onto reduced contracts.

Billings is a must keep for now - even if on a 2 year contract with a view to keeping or trading him after next year.

On AFL360 last night Gerard Wheatley said something that aligns with my own thoughts and that is we are at a very delicate juncture in this list build and the strategy the club chooses next for list management is going to be vitally important. This will be for some of the reasons you give re COVID restrictions/budgets, but also the question about how much more growth this list has.

What this season has shown us is this list is seriously defective, mostly for the collective mindset and attitude it takes into games, heaps of individual skill sets but seriously lacking competitive beast and onfield leadership. For that reason I think the hard call needs to be made on players like Billings and Dunstan who would be taking up salary cap space that will need freeing up to try other players on the list.

[CURLY]

Not our best kick what absolute rot

Who is a better kick than Billings?

[Vortex]

You seem to be introducing some contradiction though and it's confusing, can you give some examples of the type of contests he never pulls out of? Sounds like you are describing an inside mid to me and I mostly see Billings running forward of contests to get on the end of distribution.

Can you please explain this question? We've posters stating JB shirks contests, yet cannot give examples. Now we have the question asking for examples of the type of contests he never pulls out of.

Surely if no one can give an example of a contest he shirks then the answer to your question is the same or simply "football contests". Isn't it?

If a backman (McKenzie / Webster) or a forward (Membrey / Lonie) never pull out of contests it does not make them an inside mid.

DMac, Webster and Members illustrate the point perfectly I feel, 3 players who have a reputation for taking their turn, and 3 players who have been hurt for doing so. They definitely aren't inside mids but they will have a go at winning a contest when it is their turn.

[MC Gusto]

The question has to be can you envisage Billings standing up in a big final and helping us get over the line? He works hard covering huge distances per game, hence his healthy stats. But very few are body on the line contests or a blinding 15 minutes dragging his side over the line.

I am biased because I would be more than happy to roll the dice to trade him and go to the draft with the pick! It sounds harsh but I believe we need to make some tough list decisions to take the next step.

One of the few players in our team who can turn a game off his own boot. He’s done it before so the history is there.
I’ve been frustrated by his consistency but there’s no doubt in my mind he could be the difference in a final on his day

I can't think of a game where I felt Billings won the game off his own boot. That's with no disrespect to yourself, I'm just unable to come up with a game, maybe you could help me out?

He kicked 5 goals in a half of footy against the Dogs to win the game
He’s gone 2 goals and 100% efficiency on a few occasions

[Vortex]

The question has to be can you envisage Billings standing up in a big final and helping us get over the line? He works hard covering huge distances per game, hence his healthy stats. But very few are body on the line contests or a blinding 15 minutes dragging his side over the line.

I am biased because I would be more than happy to roll the dice to trade him and go to the draft with the pick! It sounds harsh but I believe we need to make some tough list decisions to take the next step.

One of the few players in our team who can turn a game off his own boot. He’s done it before so the history is there.
I’ve been frustrated by his consistency but there’s no doubt in my mind he could be the difference in a final on his day

I can't think of a game where I felt Billings won the game off his own boot. That's with no disrespect to yourself, I'm just unable to come up with a game, maybe you could help me out?

He kicked 5 goals in a half of footy against the Dogs to win the game
He’s gone 2 goals and 100% efficiency on a few occasions

I remember that game, was it 2015?

[spert]

Not our best kick what absolute rot

Who is a better kick than Billings?

Right now, Connolly by foot is approaching elite

[Yorkeys]

The heading might well read Good Buy: Billings.

Playing under injury duress this year. You try running and kicking with constant foot pain. Or just going down the shop. Plays a difficult role. Runs excellent lines. Rarely makes an absolute clanger. If all others did their roles as well we would be going ok.

Makes some tricky things look easy/straight forward so his skills can be overlooked. Loyal and hard despite campaign to type him as otherwise.

If players ahead of him could use the ball decently and make good judgements to go to him when open he would kick plenty more goals. I imagine the type of player Clarkson would love in his forward line.

Not a Mitch Robertson of course, and thank goodness for that - MR is hard but not fair and mostly grunt and groan with no finishing, there's a contrast.

[outside66]

Why do posters think we can trade him?

We can't.

He is a restricted free agent.

He can sign with us

OR

He can field offers from other clubs.

If he accepts an offer from another club, THEN we have the option of matching that offer to automatically keep him.

IF we do not match the offer, he goes. NO TRADE.

The AFL then decides the draft pick compensation which is UNLIKELY to be immediately after our first round pick and as we have no second round pick (previously traded) they may give us an end of second round pick or if we are lucky - lower. A terrible return for a very very good AFL footballer with 100+ games left in him.

BUT wait there is another twist - IF we also pick up an unresticted or restricted free agent ... then I believe that we get NOTHING for Billings.

In an environment where the Salary cap is tight due to covid reductions, most caps are tight, but of most clubs other than the bottom 4 we probably have the most wiggle room with players returing or going onto reduced contracts.

Billings is a must keep for now - even if on a 2 year contract with a view to keeping or trading him after next year.

Definitely can do a trade in this situation. If we choose to match an offer but the player does not want to stay then the other club would need to trade to get the player across. Examples of clubs matching restricted FA's would be Jeremy Cameron and Patrick Dangerfield etc

[Ghost Like]

You seem to be introducing some contradiction though and it's confusing, can you give some examples of the type of contests he never pulls out of? Sounds like you are describing an inside mid to me and I mostly see Billings running forward of contests to get on the end of distribution.

Can you please explain this question? We've posters stating JB shirks contests, yet cannot give examples. Now we have the question asking for examples of the type of contests he never pulls out of.

Surely if no one can give an example of a contest he shirks then the answer to your question is the same or simply "football contests". Isn't it?

If a backman (McKenzie / Webster) or a forward (Membrey / Lonie) never pull out of contests it does not make them an inside mid.

DMac, Webster and Members illustrate the point perfectly I feel, 3 players who have a reputation for taking their turn, and 3 players who have been hurt for doing so. They definitely aren't inside mids but they will have a go at winning a contest when it is their turn.

Then your point changed.

Again, when has Billings not taken his turn?

[Ghost Like]

Why do posters think we can trade him?

We can't.

He is a restricted free agent.

He can sign with us

OR

He can field offers from other clubs.

If he accepts an offer from another club, THEN we have the option of matching that offer to automatically keep him.

IF we do not match the offer, he goes. NO TRADE.

The AFL then decides the draft pick compensation which is UNLIKELY to be immediately after our first round pick and as we have no second round pick (previously traded) they may give us an end of second round pick or if we are lucky - lower. A terrible return for a very very good AFL footballer with 100+ games left in him.

BUT wait there is another twist - IF we also pick up an unresticted or restricted free agent ... then I believe that we get NOTHING for Billings.

In an environment where the Salary cap is tight due to covid reductions, most caps are tight, but of most clubs other than the bottom 4 we probably have the most wiggle room with players returing or going onto reduced contracts.

Billings is a must keep for now - even if on a 2 year contract with a view to keeping or trading him after next year.

Definitely can do a trade in this situation. If we choose to match an offer but the player does not want to stay then the other club would need to trade to get the player across. Examples of clubs matching restricted FA's would be Jeremy Cameron and Patrick Dangerfield etc

That's the art of Brinkmanship. Both Adelaide & GWS were prepared to pay what Geelong were offering. Geelong wanted them bad enough to pay with picks as well as their salary.

Do you think St Kilda would be prepared to have that bluff called? He's worth $600 max, St Kilda can't afford to be caught paying $750 if the other club does not want to offer up their own picks.