Goal Assists

[carn_sainter]

I'm starting to doubt that King is a talented footballer.

He's an impressive athlete and a big unit. His size and physical gifts will make him a good player. He's good with ground balls like Lance Franklin, though he unfortunately doesn't play anything like Lance who has always put enormous pressure on the opposition with the amount of ground he covers.

King hasn't shown any particular football skills. Hands aren't great, feet aren't great, sense of time isn't great, tackling is basically non-existent.

And he just hovers around the pocket. We're always kicking it to him in the pocket...it's so dumb. It puts no pressure on the opposition. It couldn't be any easier for them. It's like having Shaq on your basketball team and using him as a spot-up 3 point shooter.

I've always said time is on his side, but I really think he's being wasted, used poorly and not developing actual football skills.

[Teflon]

Good player in side that’s struggled all year with a poor forward line structure and style and a midfield that’s been belted way too often to be able to deliver the ball - not to mention an at times disjointed transition bombing the ball into 50 constantly
Still killing contested grabs while under 30 games, tracking as well as likes of Tom Hawkins at same age
Will be a star as long as the club don’t turn what should be a blue chip asset into a Kosi battler...

[shanegrambeau]

I think Max will be alright. I remember Llordo talking about the Kings and he said they are different types of forwards, but I can't remember the details. One of them was a stand and deliver type if I remember. Maybe that was Max? anyway, still early days.

[Scollop]

Good player in side that’s struggled all year with a poor forward line structure and style and a midfield that’s been belted way too often to be able to deliver the ball - not to mention an at times disjointed transition bombing the ball into 50 constantly
Still killing contested grabs while under 30 games, tracking as well as likes of Tom Hawkins at same age
Will be a star as long as the club don’t turn what should be a blue chip asset into a Kosi battler...

Are you saying that Kosi was mismanaged or that Kosi was a battler?

Kozi won the AFL Rising Star award in 2001

He was a dominant Centre Half Forward in 2004/2005.

He was the AFL centrepiece and the main attraction in an advertising campaign at the start of 2006 ( I think Aaron Naughton is someone that reminds me of how Kosi used to crash a pack - Kosi would cause more harm to others than to himself...and Kosi had a deadly kick on him and was one of best set shots from 55-60m out)

Before that horrific injury that cracked his skull he was probably the best power forward in the game.

[Scollop]

I think Max will be alright. I remember Llordo talking about the Kings and he said they are different types of forwards, but I can't remember the details. One of them was a stand and deliver type if I remember. Maybe that was Max? anyway, still early days.

Llordo said Max was definitely the one who could dominate a game and he thought he'd go pretty high in the draft

He said Max was more aggressive and the one who could attack a contest or a crash a pack where as he didn't see that in Ben's game

He basically thought Max was more likely to star at AFL level and he was the better player of the King twins

....

As far as his development goes. St Kilda need to take a leaf out of John Longmires coaching methods. Look at the way horse has treated their young forwards like Blakey the lizard or Logan McDonald or Joel Amartey. He sends them to the VFL for their learning. They will become better players as they learn to dominate.

I'd love for Max to go to the VFL for a week or two. Imagine how far his chest sticks out if he kicks a bagful or 10 goals in a game and takes a few hangers?

[Vortex]

Max Kings biggest issue is concentrating long enough to think about how he can impact on multiple efforts.

Against the Pies he'd lose a contest and then turn his back on the play. It looks rude, arrogant, disinterested and lazy, take your pick.

[B.M]

Max has definitely got some tools

Needs to get fitter

Needs to get stronger

At the moment he lopes around at half to three quarter speed and generally only takes contested grabs or brings the ball to ground - when’s the last time we saw Max take a mark on the lead?

The position he plays, power is the main weapon
Think Lockett, Ablett, Dunstall, Gehrig, Hall, Franklin and many other deep forwards
They were all power athletes

[kosifantutti]

I saw Hill in the first quarter shoot off a pass, keep running, collect it back, and then deliver a beautifully weighted pass into the F50 which resulted in a mark and goal.

To watch the whole thing from beginning to end was like seeing my ‘how to kick’ book my uncle gave me as a kid, with a a montage of black and white time lapse pictures showing each of the regular kicks. (Including the place kick!) It was very smooth.

I had to add this, I confess, partly because Hill gets the forum grumble award often.

Did that actually happen? Which goal was it?

Don't remember which goal...but yes...

There were no goals from marks in the first quarter. There were some in the second and third quarter, but none were from passes by Hill.
So no…

[Teflon]

Good player in side that’s struggled all year with a poor forward line structure and style and a midfield that’s been belted way too often to be able to deliver the ball - not to mention an at times disjointed transition bombing the ball into 50 constantly
Still killing contested grabs while under 30 games, tracking as well as likes of Tom Hawkins at same age
Will be a star as long as the club don’t turn what should be a blue chip asset into a Kosi battler...

Are you saying that Kosi was mismanaged or that Kosi was a battler?

Kozi won the AFL Rising Star award in 2001

He was a dominant Centre Half Forward in 2004/2005.

He was the AFL centrepiece and the main attraction in an advertising campaign at the start of 2006 ( I think Aaron Naughton is someone that reminds me of how Kosi used to crash a pack - Kosi would cause more harm to others than to himself...and Kosi had a deadly kick on him and was one of best set shots from 55-60m out)

Before that horrific injury that cracked his skull he was probably the best power forward in the game.

He was a main attraction in AFL advertising????????WTF nonsense is that supporting ?
Over the years I’ve read stuff on here that made me lol , really enjoyed Barks4eva stuff....but this is right up there...
“Kosi was a gun.....I’ve got an AFL hot man seasons calendar to prove it!!!!”
Facts are Kosi was a GOP nothing more who had 1 purple patch and got 3 BOGs with Brownlow votes and yes, after his head injuries he was even more do GOP
He was NOT Nick Riewoldt, was never in that class ...players like Naughton today make a Kosi look silly
Really let’s stop re-writing history through rose coloured glasses and overrating St Kilda players
They are not all champions and that tag is thrown around way to loosely

[Scollop]

Good player in side that’s struggled all year with a poor forward line structure and style and a midfield that’s been belted way too often to be able to deliver the ball - not to mention an at times disjointed transition bombing the ball into 50 constantly
Still killing contested grabs while under 30 games, tracking as well as likes of Tom Hawkins at same age
Will be a star as long as the club don’t turn what should be a blue chip asset into a Kosi battler...

Are you saying that Kosi was mismanaged or that Kosi was a battler?

Kozi won the AFL Rising Star award in 2001

He was a dominant Centre Half Forward in 2004/2005.

He was the AFL centrepiece and the main attraction in an advertising campaign at the start of 2006 ( I think Aaron Naughton is someone that reminds me of how Kosi used to crash a pack - Kosi would cause more harm to others than to himself...and Kosi had a deadly kick on him and was one of best set shots from 55-60m out)

Before that horrific injury that cracked his skull he was probably the best power forward in the game.

He was a main attraction in AFL advertising????????WTF nonsense is that supporting ?
Over the years I’ve read stuff on here that made me lol , really enjoyed Barks4eva stuff....but this is right up there...
“Kosi was a gun.....I’ve got an AFL hot man seasons calendar to prove it!!!!”
Facts are Kosi was a GOP nothing more who had 1 purple patch and got 3 BOGs with Brownlow votes and yes, after his head injuries he was even more do GOP
He was NOT Nick Riewoldt, was never in that class ...players like Naughton today make a Kosi look silly
Really let’s stop re-writing history through rose coloured glasses and overrating St Kilda players
They are not all champions and that tag is thrown around way to loosely

You used the word 'battler' and I think if you ask 100 people who played with him (or against him) that there'd be absolutely no one who would describe Kosi as a battler.

Oh...btw...I didn't use the word champion. You did.

The small forwards and the midfield walked taller with Kosi around. He played a hard ruthless style which meant he copped his fair share of suspensions. Every one understands that big blokes take longer to become consistently good players. Before that horrific injury early in 2006 he was on his way to hitting his peak and fulfilling his potential. The fact that he was such a versatile player is one of the reasons that other players around him and the team as a whole was better.

You are trying to bring Riewoldt into the conversation to try and justify calling Kosi a battler. It's really poor trying to denigrate a 200 game Saint and downplaying his career by claiming he only had 1 purple patch. He scored as many Brownlow votes in 2009 as he did in 2005. I don't see too many battlers winning the Rising Star and then going on to dominate in AFL games and being a crucial part of our challenges during those Grand Final years.

As a power forward at his peak Kosi was the equal of the best in the game at that time. He was unfortunate with injuries early in his career and later (from say 2004-2007) with both Roo and G Train playing forward he was often used in the ruck or in defense. He was an impact player who was awesome to watch but he was never a prolific ball winner.

Pretty ironic that we are in a thread titled 'Goal Assists'. Kosi was a team player and he played selfless footy (just ask Schnieds or Milney how many times Kosi crashed a pack and they picked up the crumbs...and sometimes...Kosi even directly gifted them goals).

https://wikisaints.fandom.com/wiki/Justin_Koschitzke

And...what's with all the "????????" You're the new Stonecold on the forum are you?

[spert]

Max Kings biggest issue is concentrating long enough to think about how he can impact on multiple efforts.

Against the Pies he'd lose a contest and then turn his back on the play. It looks rude, arrogant, disinterested and lazy, take your pick.

I reckon he is a tad over-rated, but shows some good signs and we can only hope he takes the next step.

[Ghost Like]

I'm starting to doubt that King is a talented footballer.

He's an impressive athlete and a big unit. His size and physical gifts will make him a good player. He's good with ground balls like Lance Franklin, though he unfortunately doesn't play anything like Lance who has always put enormous pressure on the opposition with the amount of ground he covers.

King hasn't shown any particular football skills. Hands aren't great, feet aren't great, sense of time isn't great, tackling is basically non-existent.

And he just hovers around the pocket. We're always kicking it to him in the pocket...it's so dumb. It puts no pressure on the opposition. It couldn't be any easier for them. It's like having Shaq on your basketball team and using him as a spot-up 3 point shooter.

I've always said time is on his side, but I really think he's being wasted, used poorly and not developing actual football skills.

Please have a look at Franklin's first two years, the only player who ducked his head more & squibbed more contests was Lance Gibbs for his age.

It took Franklin time to develop into the player he is now lauded as. Max is tracking OK, as is Ben. Remarkably they still both look the same physically.

Agree though, he needs to add leading to his game. Too easy for a defender to understand his game at the moment. Perhaps 2022 is the year he learns to lead, it is a skill in itself.

[kosifantutti]

I'm starting to doubt that King is a talented footballer.

He's an impressive athlete and a big unit. His size and physical gifts will make him a good player. He's good with ground balls like Lance Franklin, though he unfortunately doesn't play anything like Lance who has always put enormous pressure on the opposition with the amount of ground he covers.

King hasn't shown any particular football skills. Hands aren't great, feet aren't great, sense of time isn't great, tackling is basically non-existent.

And he just hovers around the pocket. We're always kicking it to him in the pocket...it's so dumb. It puts no pressure on the opposition. It couldn't be any easier for them. It's like having Shaq on your basketball team and using him as a spot-up 3 point shooter.

I've always said time is on his side, but I really think he's being wasted, used poorly and not developing actual football skills.

Please have a look at Franklin's first two years, the only player who ducked his head more & squibbed more contests was Lance Gibbs for his age.

It took Franklin time to develop into the player he is now lauded as. Max is tracking OK, as is Ben. Remarkably they still both look the same physically.

Agree though, he needs to add leading to his game. Too easy for a defender to understand his game at the moment. Perhaps 2022 is the year he learns to lead, it is a skill in itself.

I thought all the West Indians liked the hook shot.

[Ghost Like]

I'm starting to doubt that King is a talented footballer.

He's an impressive athlete and a big unit. His size and physical gifts will make him a good player. He's good with ground balls like Lance Franklin, though he unfortunately doesn't play anything like Lance who has always put enormous pressure on the opposition with the amount of ground he covers.

King hasn't shown any particular football skills. Hands aren't great, feet aren't great, sense of time isn't great, tackling is basically non-existent.

And he just hovers around the pocket. We're always kicking it to him in the pocket...it's so dumb. It puts no pressure on the opposition. It couldn't be any easier for them. It's like having Shaq on your basketball team and using him as a spot-up 3 point shooter.

I've always said time is on his side, but I really think he's being wasted, used poorly and not developing actual football skills.

Please have a look at Franklin's first two years, the only player who ducked his head more & squibbed more contests was Lance Gibbs for his age.

It took Franklin time to develop into the player he is now lauded as. Max is tracking OK, as is Ben. Remarkably they still both look the same physically.

Agree though, he needs to add leading to his game. Too easy for a defender to understand his game at the moment. Perhaps 2022 is the year he learns to lead, it is a skill in itself.

I thought all the West Indians liked the hook shot.

Good pick up kosi, oops! Bryce.

[Teflon]

Good player in side that’s struggled all year with a poor forward line structure and style and a midfield that’s been belted way too often to be able to deliver the ball - not to mention an at times disjointed transition bombing the ball into 50 constantly
Still killing contested grabs while under 30 games, tracking as well as likes of Tom Hawkins at same age
Will be a star as long as the club don’t turn what should be a blue chip asset into a Kosi battler...

Are you saying that Kosi was mismanaged or that Kosi was a battler?

Kozi won the AFL Rising Star award in 2001

He was a dominant Centre Half Forward in 2004/2005.

He was the AFL centrepiece and the main attraction in an advertising campaign at the start of 2006 ( I think Aaron Naughton is someone that reminds me of how Kosi used to crash a pack - Kosi would cause more harm to others than to himself...and Kosi had a deadly kick on him and was one of best set shots from 55-60m out)

Before that horrific injury that cracked his skull he was probably the best power forward in the game.

He was a main attraction in AFL advertising????????WTF nonsense is that supporting ?
Over the years I’ve read stuff on here that made me lol , really enjoyed Barks4eva stuff....but this is right up there...
“Kosi was a gun.....I’ve got an AFL hot man seasons calendar to prove it!!!!”
Facts are Kosi was a GOP nothing more who had 1 purple patch and got 3 BOGs with Brownlow votes and yes, after his head injuries he was even more do GOP
He was NOT Nick Riewoldt, was never in that class ...players like Naughton today make a Kosi look silly
Really let’s stop re-writing history through rose coloured glasses and overrating St Kilda players
They are not all champions and that tag is thrown around way to loosely

You used the word 'battler' and I think if you ask 100 people who played with him (or against him) that there'd be absolutely no one who would describe Kosi as a battler.

Oh...btw...I didn't use the word champion. You did.

The small forwards and the midfield walked taller with Kosi around. He played a hard ruthless style which meant he copped his fair share of suspensions. Every one understands that big blokes take longer to become consistently good players. Before that horrific injury early in 2006 he was on his way to hitting his peak and fulfilling his potential. The fact that he was such a versatile player is one of the reasons that other players around him and the team as a whole was better.

You are trying to bring Riewoldt into the conversation to try and justify calling Kosi a battler. It's really poor trying to denigrate a 200 game Saint and downplaying his career by claiming he only had 1 purple patch. He scored as many Brownlow votes in 2009 as he did in 2005. I don't see too many battlers winning the Rising Star and then going on to dominate in AFL games and being a crucial part of our challenges during those Grand Final years.

As a power forward at his peak Kosi was the equal of the best in the game at that time. He was unfortunate with injuries early in his career and later (from say 2004-2007) with both Roo and G Train playing forward he was often used in the ruck or in defense. He was an impact player who was awesome to watch but he was never a prolific ball winner.

Pretty ironic that we are in a thread titled 'Goal Assists'. Kosi was a team player and he played selfless footy (just ask Schnieds or Milney how many times Kosi crashed a pack and they picked up the crumbs...and sometimes...Kosi even directly gifted them goals).

https://wikisaints.fandom.com/wiki/Justin_Koschitzke

And...what's with all the "????????" You're the new Stonecold on the forum are you?

No you’re right he’s no battler cause he spearheaded a marketing campaign once ?????????
I didn’t read the rest sorry I assumed it’s more just more typical over hyping Saints players who ALL become better players AFTER they retire
Kosi was a GOP nothing more and ofcourse I bring Riewoldt into it you muppet he’s the benchmark!!!!!!
Cause Teflon said so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Scollop]

......?????????

...............!!!!!!
Cause Teflon said so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Teflon is now Stonecold. The new know it all authority on everything.

The new benchmark tool of the forum.

[Vortex]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing I know but I'm starting to think we didn't help Max King's development by letting Josh Bruce walk. It also seems to have effected our structure and ability to spread the opposition's defence.

To my way of thinking we desperately need another key tall forward. Assuming all the chatter is correct and Ben King will eventually come our way, which other player would you recruit as a stop gap?

Mason Cox would come cheap and provide some interference and from what I read could be open to playing a ruck role also which would provide another stop gap in the event we lose Roma or Paddy through injury...the club just just has to find a solution here as we've seen how we go without it.

A more permanent option would be Rory Lobb and I have no doubt Lethers has made that call...but that's dreaming.

[B.M]

Not really hindsight

Pretty obvious that Bruce doing the donkey work and allow King to settle in

I suppose Marshall/Ryder were considered for that role

[shanegrambeau]

I saw Hill in the first quarter shoot off a pass, keep running, collect it back, and then deliver a beautifully weighted pass into the F50 which resulted in a mark and goal.

To watch the whole thing from beginning to end was like seeing my ‘how to kick’ book my uncle gave me as a kid, with a a montage of black and white time lapse pictures showing each of the regular kicks. (Including the place kick!) It was very smooth.

I had to add this, I confess, partly because Hill gets the forum grumble award often.

Did that actually happen? Which goal was it?

Don't remember which goal...but yes...

There were no goals from marks in the first quarter. There were some in the second and third quarter, but none were from passes by Hill.
So no…

Hills play led to a goal. It may have been hand balled on by the player that received the football , but it absolutely led to a goal, and it was Hills skill that delivered it into the F50.