Ben King

[B.M]

Not sure about that

Whilst he was injured, he was still in the AFL system. In fact, he was part time at StK doing his rehab at 17 in his draft year. With the use of elite facilities.

Recovering from an ACL doesn’t mean you can’t hit the gym, doesn’t mean you can’t begin building a tank.

On crutches 8-12 weeks, walking then jogging within 5 months. Full training in 9 months and playing in 12 months.

He played for Sandy for half a dozen games in his first season, and did his syndosmosis.

Again, with an ankle, you can still hit the gym!!!

One of my criticisms of Max is that he is still scrawny and pushed around with ease. 3 years in a full time training environment and he is skinny as a rake?!

If you look at the photo of Ben on AFL.com
There is no way Max has as big an upper body… WTF is that?!

Add to that, comparing the movement of the pair is interesting
Ben get most of his ball with aggressive leading
Max stands i50 or jogs around with a defender looking completely gassed… his aerobic fitness seems to be horrendous

[Teflon]

Geeez I bet Max would love that delivery. Reckon he’s the better contested mark at this stage but Ben is better at finding space

And you would be right - saw the below post on BF thought it interesting (been banned lately so had lots more Tim to peruse) ...interesting reading but to me...Ben clearly plays the lead up role better ...,Max far better contested ....point is play 1 at roaming CHF/Link player and other out of square .....we’d be a nightmare (still grab mid with this years pick and pray to god we get an academy steal too...)

******************************

The main differences are
- Ben has kicked straight while Max has not. Ben had 55 shots on goal in his 14 games this year and converting at 61.8% while Max has had 48 shots from his 13 games and converting at 37.5%.

- While Ben has 6 more marks inside 50 this year, Max has significantly more contested marks.

- Ben has had 4 GA this year compared to Max's 9, which could be explained by each sides forward set up or Ben backing himself more to kick the goal but the difference in that number just stood out in comparison to how similar all their other numbers are.

And when you look at their one-on-one win rate, Max is in the top bracket alongside Hawkins having a 44% win rate in those contests while only losing 16%. While Ben struggles in one-on-ones with his win rate at 25% while his loss rate is at 39% which puts him 2nd to Josh Bruce for having the worst win-loss differential. This might have more to do with how Gold Coast set up their forward line or move the ball, but also shows the impact of Max's contested marking ability up forward compared to Ben who does better getting that separation from defender to get the uncontested mark.

All this to say, Max isn't really behind his brother in terms of quality. He just has the yips.

That plus the ACL and all the lost recovery time. Ben effectively has a year head start on Max.

Ben has had more experience at the highest level, and more of a run to build his body and tank.

Ben is at 46 games and Max at 31. Typically many players start to really fond their feet after 50 odd games. Big forwards probably longer than that.


With both players they will certainly get a lot, lot better yet.

Yep great shout
And a year of MATCH PLAY in development is a lot - most AFL players, as is widely accepted, don’t hit their straps till 50 games and KPP maybe longer so a full year of playing (close to 2 with rehab/conditioning to get back) is a big difference - Ben was still playing school footy while Max was out.
What’s interesting is Max’s stats at same stages are comparable to Hawkins, Lynch, Hipwood etc in fact not many have had better starts inside 30 games as he’s having
What’s more interesting here is when people say they can’t play in side forward structure- rubbish the stats tell you they are different players and together would be an almighty handful

[skeptic]

Personally I reckon it’s absolutely worth trading away picks/players to get Bing now.

Would be a HUGE coup. Him and Max pbly have experience playing together and would form a great dynamic… are passionate Saints guys and both look like stars in the making
That’s your FF and CHF for 10 years taken care of

Personally I think ppl overrate the value of draft picks - more of them flounder then don’t

[The_Dud]

The difference between the two to me is Ben is in a much better forward set up, got a lot of balls leading into space inside 50, a concept that seems totally foreign to our coaches it would appear!

Also he just looks more confident at this point, again I would put this down to the system he is working in, he's a lot happier.

[Viscount Jeremiah]

The difference between the two to me is Ben is in a much better forward set up, got a lot of balls leading into space inside 50, a concept that seems totally foreign to our coaches it would appear!

Also he just looks more confident at this point, again I would put this down to the system he is working in, he's a lot happier.

And he's also played another season than Max.

For what it's worth though despite playing one less season Max still averages more disposals, contested marks, ground ball gets etc..

What I've noticed about ben is he is sensational at getting free inside 50 and taking uncontested marks inside 50. Max should look at how he is doing that because Max is a better-contested mark already but not as good at getting uncontested marks

[samuraisaint]

The difference between the two to me is Ben is in a much better forward set up, got a lot of balls leading into space inside 50, a concept that seems totally foreign to our coaches it would appear!

Also he just looks more confident at this point, again I would put this down to the system he is working in, he's a lot happier.

It's all about who's delivering the ball to him. The kicks into the forward line are pinpoint passes, or at worst, kicks into the forward line which are not to players being double teamed. The Suns moved the ball really quickly last night. I was impressed by the way they backed themselves in. To be honest, I usually only watch the Suns when they play us, so I wasn't surprised. The last five or six times we have beaten them, but only by single digits, and that includes games in Melbourne at Docklands. (I just checked we have beaten them 6 times in a row - twice in Melbourne - and the last five wins have been by an average 4 points, so we never get an easy game against them.)

One thing they do have in common is that they are good at ground level.

Lockett had guys like Winmar and Harvey kicking the ball to him. Makes a big difference.

If we see Hannebery this year (fingers crossed), watch Ming's numbers go right up.

[spert]

All the pinpoint passes in the world come to nothing if a FF is not leading. Ben has this in his forward game, Max hasn't, but should if he sees himself as a key position player. Plugger was a hard leader to the ball coming down the field, and when you're coming to the forward line, you have scope to pass to a teammate coming at you.

[B.M]

Are you saying GC is better coached?

[The_Dud]

Mostly our forward line always seems congested, and times when we get a fast break from half back our forwards are always too far up the ground to take advantage.

If the coach wanted a player/players to hold their ground inside 50 to give us more structure I think we would see that.

[samuraisaint]

Are you saying GC is better coached?

I am not. I think Ratten is a far better coach than he is given credit for. With our injury list this year we have been up against it since the practice games in March.
I like Dew's press conferences though, he reminds me a bit of the ones Graham Gellie used to give in the good old, bad old days.

I did like the way the Suns took the game on last night however.

Having said that, defensively their game plan does not stand up to intense pressure, and this is why they don't win more than six games a year as a rule.

They won last night because their Full Back Sam Collins was phenomenal. Even so, there is only one of him and Lynch nearly won it for the opposition last night.

Their game plan works best when they have Bing at one end and Collins at the other, because they are both execllent players and will beat their opponent. They have got Touk Miller in the middle who is an absolute beast and who, like Collins, flies under the media radar beacuse the Suns are irrelevant on the footy media landscale. Collins looked injured in the final quarter but, warrior that he is, he played the game out manfully.

Rankine is going to be an absolute ripper too. He is dangerous and the opposition need to put time into him, because he'll kill you if you don't pay him respect. I remember he kicked an absolute freak goal against us last year at Metricon which went close to winning the game for them.

[Vortex]

Personally I reckon it’s absolutely worth trading away picks/players to get Bing now.

Would be a HUGE coup. Him and Max pbly have experience playing together and would form a great dynamic… are passionate Saints guys and both look like stars in the making
That’s your FF and CHF for 10 years taken care of

Personally I think ppl overrate the value of draft picks - more of them flounder then don’t

The only trading currency we have is players, so which players can we afford to trade to get Ben in without robbing Peter to pay Paul? Billings and Dunstan are the only two I can think of that GC MIGHT be interested and I don't think they would take that deal as they are clearly on the record announcing they are in the market for experienced players who can provide onfield leadership. GC will not let Ben go at any cost is how I'm reading the tea leaves so that still leaves us in the market for a key tall.

I think we should be looking to trade players to secure GCS pick 3 to find a key tall at another club because until we do our significant structural problem will keep us in the bottom 8.

[magnifisaint]

Of course he's coming to the Saints. Any idiot would know that especially after his brother signs a 4 year extension.

[desertsaint]

cite mental health issues to excuse going home. use this to pressure the suns into taking billings as a straight swap. put a hit out on hannebury and there's his salary well taken care of with the excess plus the money saved on billings to entice kelly over.
succesful clubs need to play dirty sometimes.

[Saintmatt]

Personally I reckon it’s absolutely worth trading away picks/players to get Bing now.

Would be a HUGE coup. Him and Max pbly have experience playing together and would form a great dynamic… are passionate Saints guys and both look like stars in the making
That’s your FF and CHF for 10 years taken care of

Personally I think ppl overrate the value of draft picks - more of them flounder then don’t

Ming and Bing do have the experience of playing together ... but only in the same team; not the same area of the ground. Max was always the forward and Ben always had to play CHB. It wasn't until Max did his knee that Ben played forward. Lloydy has spoken about this a lot.

I see a lot on here about how they would be a nightmare to cover forward but, has anyone thought that at St Kilda - one of them might be way more valuable as a CHB than as a key forward?

[skeptic]

Personally I reckon it’s absolutely worth trading away picks/players to get Bing now.

Would be a HUGE coup. Him and Max pbly have experience playing together and would form a great dynamic… are passionate Saints guys and both look like stars in the making
That’s your FF and CHF for 10 years taken care of

Personally I think ppl overrate the value of draft picks - more of them flounder then don’t

Ming and Bing do have the experience of playing together ... but only in the same team; not the same area of the ground. Max was always the forward and Ben always had to play CHB. It wasn't until Max did his knee that Ben played forward. Lloydy has spoken about this a lot.

I see a lot on here about how they would be a nightmare to cover forward but, has anyone thought that at St Kilda - one of them might be way more valuable as a CHB than as a key forward?

Has been on my mind...

IF we get him and manage to keep Battle... i imagine that Battle and Bing alternate btw CHB/CHF as per match ups and performance. I like the potential versatility

[Ghost Like]

Personally I reckon it’s absolutely worth trading away picks/players to get Bing now.

Would be a HUGE coup. Him and Max pbly have experience playing together and would form a great dynamic… are passionate Saints guys and both look like stars in the making
That’s your FF and CHF for 10 years taken care of

Personally I think ppl overrate the value of draft picks - more of them flounder then don’t

Ming and Bing do have the experience of playing together ... but only in the same team; not the same area of the ground. Max was always the forward and Ben always had to play CHB. It wasn't until Max did his knee that Ben played forward. Lloydy has spoken about this a lot.

I see a lot on here about how they would be a nightmare to cover forward but, has anyone thought that at St Kilda - one of them might be way more valuable as a CHB than as a key forward?

Has been on my mind...

IF we get him and manage to keep Battle... i imagine that Battle and Bing alternate btw CHB/CHF as per match ups and performance. I like the potential versatility

Battle may be alternating with Bing but between clubs.

[magnifisaint]

Personally I reckon it’s absolutely worth trading away picks/players to get Bing now.

Would be a HUGE coup. Him and Max pbly have experience playing together and would form a great dynamic… are passionate Saints guys and both look like stars in the making
That’s your FF and CHF for 10 years taken care of

Personally I think ppl overrate the value of draft picks - more of them flounder then don’t

Ming and Bing do have the experience of playing together ... but only in the same team; not the same area of the ground. Max was always the forward and Ben always had to play CHB. It wasn't until Max did his knee that Ben played forward. Lloydy has spoken about this a lot.

I see a lot on here about how they would be a nightmare to cover forward but, has anyone thought that at St Kilda - one of them might be way more valuable as a CHB than as a key forward?

Has been on my mind...

IF we get him and manage to keep Battle... i imagine that Battle and Bing alternate btw CHB/CHF as per match ups and performance. I like the potential versatility

Battle may be alternating with Bing but between clubs.

The Sun's would want 4 Josh Battles for one Ben King and they'd still be short changed

[Wayne42]

Of course he's coming to the Saints. Any idiot would know that especially after his brother signs a 4 year extension.

Even an idiot is only guessing when or if Ben might ask for a trade to the Saints.
I think the Suns will keep him, and, there is absolutely NO indication that he wants to go to the Saints, it's purely speculation.

Makes for good forum copy though.

[magnifisaint]

Of course he's coming to the Saints. Any idiot would know that especially after his brother signs a 4 year extension.

Even an idiot is only guessing when or if Ben might ask for a trade to the Saints.
I think the Suns will keep him, and, there is absolutely NO indication that he wants to go to the Saints, it's purely speculation.

Makes for good forum copy though.

I think in his heart he'd much rather be at the Saints playing with his brother. The Suns realise this and I'm sure St Kilda is trying to figure out what deal has to be made. It's a fait accompli

[Wayne42]

Of course he's coming to the Saints. Any idiot would know that especially after his brother signs a 4 year extension.

Even an idiot is only guessing when or if Ben might ask for a trade to the Saints.
I think the Suns will keep him, and, there is absolutely NO indication that he wants to go to the Saints, it's purely speculation.

Makes for good forum copy though.

I think in his heart he'd much rather be at the Saints playing with his brother. The Suns realise this and I'm sure St Kilda is trying to figure out what deal has to be made. It's a fait accompli

The Suns will probably want Marshall and draft picks.

[sainterinsydney]

The fact that Caro said that the Saints are confident of nabbing Bing indicates to me that Bing has obviously either said to Max or the club directly that he wants to come to the Saints. Max and Ben probably speak with each other constantly and it would be shocking that Bing hasnt mentioned something to Max.

[Banger9798]

Of course he's coming to the Saints. Any idiot would know that especially after his brother signs a 4 year extension.

Even an idiot is only guessing when or if Ben might ask for a trade to the Saints.
I think the Suns will keep him, and, there is absolutely NO indication that he wants to go to the Saints, it's purely speculation.

Makes for good forum copy though.

I think in his heart he'd much rather be at the Saints playing with his brother. The Suns realise this and I'm sure St Kilda is trying to figure out what deal has to be made. It's a fait accompli

Love the confidence Magnifisaint
Talk the deal into existence
Of course he's coming to the Saints. How could he not ?

[Wayne42]

Of course he's coming to the Saints. Any idiot would know that especially after his brother signs a 4 year extension.

Even an idiot is only guessing when or if Ben might ask for a trade to the Saints.
I think the Suns will keep him, and, there is absolutely NO indication that he wants to go to the Saints, it's purely speculation.

Makes for good forum copy though.

I think in his heart he'd much rather be at the Saints playing with his brother. The Suns realise this and I'm sure St Kilda is trying to figure out what deal has to be made. It's a fait accompli

Love the confidence Magnifisaint
Talk the deal into existence
Of course he's coming to the Saints. How could he not ?

I wonder if the Kings are like the McKay's and don't want to play in the same team. They haven't actually said they want to play together.