Ben King

[Sanctorum]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

happy to wait until then and get him as a restricted free agent or even wait until he is a free agent.

Marshall, Ming and Membrey until then.

Something tells me we need a stop gap before then. I'm guessing the club will be targeting a key tall forward at this year's trade table as the stop gap. I doubt we can become a top 4 contender until we fix our structural issue up forward and I don't think the development of this list can wait in hope for Ben King to be our guy.

While I would be delighted to see Bing come to St Kilda I'm not sure that will be crucial to success in the next 2-3 years.

The obvious stop gap may well be to secure another experienced ruckman to partner Paddy so that Marshall can become that tall forward to support Ming - in the meantime the Saints have the latest recruit Max Heath (204 cm 94 kg) learning the ropes from Ryder, I have a good feeling about the young "Ditterich Clone" playing in the seniors in 2022 and if that happens Bing can wait....

[Vortex]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

happy to wait until then and get him as a restricted free agent or even wait until he is a free agent.

Marshall, Ming and Membrey until then.

Something tells me we need a stop gap before then. I'm guessing the club will be targeting a key tall forward at this year's trade table as the stop gap. I doubt we can become a top 4 contender until we fix our structural issue up forward and I don't think the development of this list can wait in hope for Ben King to be our guy.

While I would be delighted to see Bing come to St Kilda I'm not sure that will be crucial to success in the next 2-3 years.

The obvious stop gap may well be to secure another experienced ruckman to partner Paddy so that Marshall can become that tall forward to support Ming - in the meantime the Saints have the latest recruit Max Heath (204 cm 94 kg) learning the ropes from Ryder, I have a good feeling about the young "Ditterich Clone" playing in the seniors in 2022 and if that happens Bing can wait....

We definitely will also need a Paddy replacement as early as 2023 depending on how much longer Paddy has left in him. You'd have to think a ready made AFL capable ruckman is almost an equal priority as a key tall forward for our recruiters. Ideally a ruck/forward type. We don't have the luxury of time to develop our own. Don't be surprised if Mason Cox is being looked at as a potential stop gap.

[Vortex]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

I wouldn’t be so sure on that and I don’t think he’s the only one right now who might want out..

I know strange things do happen but there are a couple of things that conspire against it happening, the main thing is the financial stress that both clubs are under so that will restrict both clubs doing deals that require payouts.

The other issue is Cochrane will not let him go easily and so if it does turn out he does want to go this season the cost to do a deal will be out of reach for us.

The deal we could do with the GC is trade for their pick 3 using some players they need and they are officially on the record as stating they will be in the market for experienced players who can provide onfield leadership to their young list and theirin lies the problem for us to do that type of deal. As we know we don’t really have those type of players to trade. Billings is the obvious one however we would need to throw in another player you would think as a sweetener, maybe Dunsstan but they still won't be getting any onfield leadership so another club might beat our hand.

If we could get their pick 3, and I think it's a long shot, we could then look to bring in a tall key forward from another club using pick 3 and at the moment Melbourne has a couple in surplus, Weiderman and McDonald.

Our best shot at getting Max some urgent support.

Ben is 3 to 5 years away...we can't wait that long.

Sheesh, the Dees would want to throw a bit back at us if we were to give up pick 3 for Weideman or McDonald. I think they're way more like to keep Sam and try and punt Ben Brown (his style just doesn't suit their system).

I thought Ben was another short contract at GCS away from us but I'm not so sure now. They're a rabble. Chairman is a buffoon, Dew seems like a nice guy but clearly doesn't have the support around him. Playing group is either 18-21yo babies or 28yo from other clubs up there to pouch some super. It's a bad, bad list profile and the whole environment is just holiday central.

I can see Adelaide coming really hard for Jack L and Rankine. If that happens - what's Ben really got left to stay for? That said - you're 100% correct on them wanting the earth (which we don't have) for Ben.

Sure the GCS are having a poor season but they are in the phase of a rebuild that doesn't require a head coach of any skill other than to be young, empathetic and full of cuddles. For the GC it's all about getting size, conditioning and games into the core of their list and so when I listen to Cochrane I think he knows he doesn't need to jump at shadows just yet. They know what they need and they have the trade currency to get it, experienced players who can provide onfield leadership and coaching. We don't have any of that type to trade in a single player but a twofer deal MIGHT work, I reckon they will do a deal with someone like the Tiges though for their high draft picks. The tiges could be in a mini rebuild come seasons end and they will have a few Hodge types who the GCS might feel are the better fit than say a Billings and Dunstan.

Our recruiters would be derelict in their duties if they haven't already had a chat to Weiderman or McDonald's managers.

If we don't get a chopout for Maxy in 2022 then we will be bottom 8 again.

[Impatient Sainter]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

happy to wait until then and get him as a restricted free agent or even wait until he is a free agent.

Marshall, Ming and Membrey until then.

Something tells me we need a stop gap before then. I'm guessing the club will be targeting a key tall forward at this year's trade table as the stop gap. I doubt we can become a top 4 contender until we fix our structural issue up forward and I don't think the development of this list can wait in hope for Ben King to be our guy.

While I would be delighted to see Bing come to St Kilda I'm not sure that will be crucial to success in the next 2-3 years.

The obvious stop gap may well be to secure another experienced ruckman to partner Paddy so that Marshall can become that tall forward to support Ming - in the meantime the Saints have the latest recruit Max Heath (204 cm 94 kg) learning the ropes from Ryder, I have a good feeling about the young "Ditterich Clone" playing in the seniors in 2022 and if that happens Bing can wait....

We definitely will also need a Paddy replacement as early as 2023 depending on how much longer Paddy has left in him. You'd have to think a ready made AFL capable ruckman is almost an equal priority as a key tall forward for our recruiters. Ideally a ruck/forward type. We don't have the luxury of time to develop our own. Don't be surprised if Mason Cox is being looked at as a potential stop gap.

The issue with Cox is although his contract expires this year he has been getting well paid at Collingwood. I dont think we can afford to be paying 400-500k for a back up 28/29 yo ruckman. Hunter is not AFL standard the club has learnt that, but if there are no other cheaper options about I would rather grab another kid like Liam Podhaski from Vic Metro.

[Vortex]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

happy to wait until then and get him as a restricted free agent or even wait until he is a free agent.

Marshall, Ming and Membrey until then.

Something tells me we need a stop gap before then. I'm guessing the club will be targeting a key tall forward at this year's trade table as the stop gap. I doubt we can become a top 4 contender until we fix our structural issue up forward and I don't think the development of this list can wait in hope for Ben King to be our guy.

While I would be delighted to see Bing come to St Kilda I'm not sure that will be crucial to success in the next 2-3 years.

The obvious stop gap may well be to secure another experienced ruckman to partner Paddy so that Marshall can become that tall forward to support Ming - in the meantime the Saints have the latest recruit Max Heath (204 cm 94 kg) learning the ropes from Ryder, I have a good feeling about the young "Ditterich Clone" playing in the seniors in 2022 and if that happens Bing can wait....

We definitely will also need a Paddy replacement as early as 2023 depending on how much longer Paddy has left in him. You'd have to think a ready made AFL capable ruckman is almost an equal priority as a key tall forward for our recruiters. Ideally a ruck/forward type. We don't have the luxury of time to develop our own. Don't be surprised if Mason Cox is being looked at as a potential stop gap.

The issue with Cox is although his contract expires this year he has been getting well paid at Collingwood. I dont think we can afford to be paying 400-500k for a back up 28/29 yo ruckman. Hunter is not AFL standard the club has learnt that, but if there are no other cheaper options about I would rather grab another kid like Liam Podhaski from Vic Metro.

I think if Mason wants to extend his AFL career beyond 2020 he will know he has to take a serious haircut on his salary. I think he'd be gettable at 350k with performance triggers.

[Saintmatt]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

I wouldn’t be so sure on that and I don’t think he’s the only one right now who might want out..

I know strange things do happen but there are a couple of things that conspire against it happening, the main thing is the financial stress that both clubs are under so that will restrict both clubs doing deals that require payouts.

The other issue is Cochrane will not let him go easily and so if it does turn out he does want to go this season the cost to do a deal will be out of reach for us.

The deal we could do with the GC is trade for their pick 3 using some players they need and they are officially on the record as stating they will be in the market for experienced players who can provide onfield leadership to their young list and theirin lies the problem for us to do that type of deal. As we know we don’t really have those type of players to trade. Billings is the obvious one however we would need to throw in another player you would think as a sweetener, maybe Dunsstan but they still won't be getting any onfield leadership so another club might beat our hand.

If we could get their pick 3, and I think it's a long shot, we could then look to bring in a tall key forward from another club using pick 3 and at the moment Melbourne has a couple in surplus, Weiderman and McDonald.

Our best shot at getting Max some urgent support.

Ben is 3 to 5 years away...we can't wait that long.

Sheesh, the Dees would want to throw a bit back at us if we were to give up pick 3 for Weideman or McDonald. I think they're way more like to keep Sam and try and punt Ben Brown (his style just doesn't suit their system).

I thought Ben was another short contract at GCS away from us but I'm not so sure now. They're a rabble. Chairman is a buffoon, Dew seems like a nice guy but clearly doesn't have the support around him. Playing group is either 18-21yo babies or 28yo from other clubs up there to pouch some super. It's a bad, bad list profile and the whole environment is just holiday central.

I can see Adelaide coming really hard for Jack L and Rankine. If that happens - what's Ben really got left to stay for? That said - you're 100% correct on them wanting the earth (which we don't have) for Ben.

Sure the GCS are having a poor season but they are in the phase of a rebuild that doesn't require a head coach of any skill other than to be young, empathetic and full of cuddles. For the GC it's all about getting size, conditioning and games into the core of their list and so when I listen to Cochrane I think he knows he doesn't need to jump at shadows just yet. They know what they need and they have the trade currency to get it, experienced players who can provide onfield leadership and coaching. We don't have any of that type to trade in a single player but a twofer deal MIGHT work, I reckon they will do a deal with someone like the Tiges though for their high draft picks. The tiges could be in a mini rebuild come seasons end and they will have a few Hodge types who the GCS might feel are the better fit than say a Billings and Dunstan.

Our recruiters would be derelict in their duties if they haven't already had a chat to Weiderman or McDonald's managers.

If we don't get a chopout for Maxy in 2022 then we will be bottom 8 again.

I agree that Cochrane knows what he needs; but I'm not sure he'll be able to get it. He needs a few more Brandon Ellis types AND he also needs to keep his younger players at the same time. As another posted noted - Bing and JackL were re-signed with huge whacks of AFL Ambassador $ ... but that's all gone. They just have footy contracts now.

I see the GCS problem as being if they can't retain their young talent - then all the Brandon Ellis' in the world won't help - that'll just create a mid age list. I'd love to have Bing but, we'll have to AGAIN trade away our future to get him. I think I'd rather get a Paddy replacement (of similar quality) so that Marshall can play more forward/ruck. He's the natural chop out for Ming and we already have him. McDonald or Weideman would be great but, I don't know what we'd have to pay to get one.

Above all else - for the love of God - just draft the best true/genuine/bona fide midfielder that we can with our first pick.

[Vortex]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

I wouldn’t be so sure on that and I don’t think he’s the only one right now who might want out..

I know strange things do happen but there are a couple of things that conspire against it happening, the main thing is the financial stress that both clubs are under so that will restrict both clubs doing deals that require payouts.

The other issue is Cochrane will not let him go easily and so if it does turn out he does want to go this season the cost to do a deal will be out of reach for us.

The deal we could do with the GC is trade for their pick 3 using some players they need and they are officially on the record as stating they will be in the market for experienced players who can provide onfield leadership to their young list and theirin lies the problem for us to do that type of deal. As we know we don’t really have those type of players to trade. Billings is the obvious one however we would need to throw in another player you would think as a sweetener, maybe Dunsstan but they still won't be getting any onfield leadership so another club might beat our hand.

If we could get their pick 3, and I think it's a long shot, we could then look to bring in a tall key forward from another club using pick 3 and at the moment Melbourne has a couple in surplus, Weiderman and McDonald.

Our best shot at getting Max some urgent support.

Ben is 3 to 5 years away...we can't wait that long.

Sheesh, the Dees would want to throw a bit back at us if we were to give up pick 3 for Weideman or McDonald. I think they're way more like to keep Sam and try and punt Ben Brown (his style just doesn't suit their system).

I thought Ben was another short contract at GCS away from us but I'm not so sure now. They're a rabble. Chairman is a buffoon, Dew seems like a nice guy but clearly doesn't have the support around him. Playing group is either 18-21yo babies or 28yo from other clubs up there to pouch some super. It's a bad, bad list profile and the whole environment is just holiday central.

I can see Adelaide coming really hard for Jack L and Rankine. If that happens - what's Ben really got left to stay for? That said - you're 100% correct on them wanting the earth (which we don't have) for Ben.

Sure the GCS are having a poor season but they are in the phase of a rebuild that doesn't require a head coach of any skill other than to be young, empathetic and full of cuddles. For the GC it's all about getting size, conditioning and games into the core of their list and so when I listen to Cochrane I think he knows he doesn't need to jump at shadows just yet. They know what they need and they have the trade currency to get it, experienced players who can provide onfield leadership and coaching. We don't have any of that type to trade in a single player but a twofer deal MIGHT work, I reckon they will do a deal with someone like the Tiges though for their high draft picks. The tiges could be in a mini rebuild come seasons end and they will have a few Hodge types who the GCS might feel are the better fit than say a Billings and Dunstan.

Our recruiters would be derelict in their duties if they haven't already had a chat to Weiderman or McDonald's managers.

If we don't get a chopout for Maxy in 2022 then we will be bottom 8 again.

I agree that Cochrane knows what he needs; but I'm not sure he'll be able to get it. He needs a few more Brandon Ellis types AND he also needs to keep his younger players at the same time. As another posted noted - Bing and JackL were re-signed with huge whacks of AFL Ambassador $ ... but that's all gone. They just have footy contracts now.

I see the GCS problem as being if they can't retain their young talent - then all the Brandon Ellis' in the world won't help - that'll just create a mid age list. I'd love to have Bing but, we'll have to AGAIN trade away our future to get him. I think I'd rather get a Paddy replacement (of similar quality) so that Marshall can play more forward/ruck. He's the natural chop out for Ming and we already have him. McDonald or Weideman would be great but, I don't know what we'd have to pay to get one.

Above all else - for the love of God - just draft the best true/genuine/bona fide midfielder that we can with our first pick.

Totally agree re a Paddy replacement although I reckon we have possibly one more good season left in Paddy so we have 2 trade periods to secure the Padddy replacement. Who is gettable is the question. Can Maxy weight until 2023 for a chopout though. Would you take Mason Cox as a stop gap?



And also agree on another mid.

[terry smith rules]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

happy to wait until then and get him as a restricted free agent or even wait until he is a free agent.

Marshall, Ming and Membrey until then.

Something tells me we need a stop gap before then. I'm guessing the club will be targeting a key tall forward at this year's trade table as the stop gap. I doubt we can become a top 4 contender until we fix our structural issue up forward and I don't think the development of this list can wait in hope for Ben King to be our guy.

While I would be delighted to see Bing come to St Kilda I'm not sure that will be crucial to success in the next 2-3 years.

The obvious stop gap may well be to secure another experienced ruckman to partner Paddy so that Marshall can become that tall forward to support Ming - in the meantime the Saints have the latest recruit Max Heath (204 cm 94 kg) learning the ropes from Ryder, I have a good feeling about the young "Ditterich Clone" playing in the seniors in 2022 and if that happens Bing can wait....

We definitely will also need a Paddy replacement as early as 2023 depending on how much longer Paddy has left in him. You'd have to think a ready made AFL capable ruckman is almost an equal priority as a key tall forward for our recruiters. Ideally a ruck/forward type. We don't have the luxury of time to develop our own. Don't be surprised if Mason Cox is being looked at as a potential stop gap.

The issue with Cox is although his contract expires this year he has been getting well paid at Collingwood. I dont think we can afford to be paying 400-500k for a back up 28/29 yo ruckman. Hunter is not AFL standard the club has learnt that, but if there are no other cheaper options about I would rather grab another kid like Liam Podhaski from Vic Metro.

I think if Mason wants to extend his AFL career beyond 2020 he will know he has to take a serious haircut on his salary. I think he'd be gettable at 350k with performance triggers.

Only issue with Mason is HE CAN’T PLAY

Huge question marks over Weidemann too, very ordinary this year

Why not look at Jake Waterman at the Eagles, can’t get a regular game and has a crack

Compare his figures to Weidemann or Cox, know who I would be after

[Ghost Like]

I wanted Tom McDonald during the trade period last year, that ship has sailed unfortunately. Melbourne were very lucky no one grabbed him.

Weidmann would be nice but sense he'd cost as much as Ben so I'd rather Ben. I also do not think Melbourne will off load him. I agree with Saintmatt, they will try to jettison Ben Brown.

While we are dreaming about who is gettable, providing we have currency. Is Cerra gettable?

In terms of rucks, yes we need a back up for Paddy. Although I'm hoping he has two more years in him. A no for me in regards to Mason Cox. Even Collingwood preferred a kid over him when Grundy was out. Grab another beanpole ruck / fwd at this years drafts, national or rookie. Goodbye Hunter, goodbye Alabakis, goodbye McKernan.

[Vortex]

I think if Mason wants to extend his AFL career beyond 2020 he will know he has to take a serious haircut on his salary. I think he'd be gettable at 350k with performance triggers.

Only issue with Mason is HE CAN’T PLAY

Huge question marks over Weidemann too, very ordinary this year

Why not look at Jake Waterman at the Eagles, can’t get a regular game and has a crack

Compare his figures to Weidemann or Cox, know who I would be after

What are the chaces of luring Waterman out of Perth, probably no chance I'm guessing. And I think the WCE forward line will get a makeover in the off season so more opportunity may be coming his way real soon.


Weideman and Waterman compare very evenly. Weideman has been battling injury issues including a hip complaint so I'd expect him to be capable of recapturing his 2018 finals form when he single handedly tore Geelong a new one.

[saynta]

Ben King won't be leaving the GCS for at least 3 to 5 years.

happy to wait until then and get him as a restricted free agent or even wait until he is a free agent.

Marshall, Ming and Membrey until then.

Something tells me we need a stop gap before then. I'm guessing the club will be targeting a key tall forward at this year's trade table as the stop gap. I doubt we can become a top 4 contender until we fix our structural issue up forward and I don't think the development of this list can wait in hope for Ben King to be our guy.

While I would be delighted to see Bing come to St Kilda I'm not sure that will be crucial to success in the next 2-3 years.

The obvious stop gap may well be to secure another experienced ruckman to partner Paddy so that Marshall can become that tall forward to support Ming - in the meantime the Saints have the latest recruit Max Heath (204 cm 94 kg) learning the ropes from Ryder, I have a good feeling about the young "Ditterich Clone" playing in the seniors in 2022 and if that happens Bing can wait....

We definitely will also need a Paddy replacement as early as 2023 depending on how much longer Paddy has left in him. You'd have to think a ready made AFL capable ruckman is almost an equal priority as a key tall forward for our recruiters. Ideally a ruck/forward type. We don't have the luxury of time to develop our own. Don't be surprised if Mason Cox is being looked at as a potential stop gap.

The issue with Cox is although his contract expires this year he has been getting well paid at Collingwood. I dont think we can afford to be paying 400-500k for a back up 28/29 yo ruckman. Hunter is not AFL standard the club has learnt that, but if there are no other cheaper options about I would rather grab another kid like Liam Podhaski from Vic Metro.

I think if Mason wants to extend his AFL career beyond 2020 he will know he has to take a serious haircut on his salary. I think he'd be gettable at 350k with performance triggers.

Only issue with Mason is HE CAN’T PLAY

Huge question marks over Weidemann too, very ordinary this year

Why not look at Jake Waterman at the Eagles, can’t get a regular game and has a crack

Compare his figures to Weidemann or Cox, know who I would be after

Mason Cox is not a footballer's arsehole FFS. Someone joking are they? We certainly don't need the filth's rubbish.

[Impatient Sainter]

If we dont pick up Ben King perhaps the club should look at Elliott Himmelberg from the Crows. A tall forward who can pinch hit in the ruck and being over looked because of Tilthorpe.

[terry smith rules]

I think if Mason wants to extend his AFL career beyond 2020 he will know he has to take a serious haircut on his salary. I think he'd be gettable at 350k with performance triggers.

Only issue with Mason is HE CAN’T PLAY

Huge question marks over Weidemann too, very ordinary this year

Why not look at Jake Waterman at the Eagles, can’t get a regular game and has a crack

Compare his figures to Weidemann or Cox, know who I would be after

What are the chaces of luring Waterman out of Perth, probably no chance I'm guessing. And I think the WCE forward line will get a makeover in the off season so more opportunity may be coming his way real soon.


Weideman and Waterman compare very evenly. Weideman has been battling injury issues including a hip complaint so I'd expect him to be capable of recapturing his 2018 finals form when he single handedly tore Geelong a new one.

Essendon got the Waterman brother so …..maybe

[Vortex]

I think if Mason wants to extend his AFL career beyond 2020 he will know he has to take a serious haircut on his salary. I think he'd be gettable at 350k with performance triggers.

Only issue with Mason is HE CAN’T PLAY

Huge question marks over Weidemann too, very ordinary this year

Why not look at Jake Waterman at the Eagles, can’t get a regular game and has a crack

Compare his figures to Weidemann or Cox, know who I would be after

What are the chaces of luring Waterman out of Perth, probably no chance I'm guessing. And I think the WCE forward line will get a makeover in the off season so more opportunity may be coming his way real soon.


Weideman and Waterman compare very evenly. Weideman has been battling injury issues including a hip complaint so I'd expect him to be capable of recapturing his 2018 finals form when he single handedly tore Geelong a new one.

Essendon got the Waterman brother so …..maybe

Well there ya go. After knowing that I now think it's possible. Let's hope the brothers wanna rock it up in Melbourne.

[Toy Saint]

Watching Ben King it's hard not not to think he's Max and barrack for him to do well.

[WellardSaint]

Watching Ben King it's hard not not to think he's Max and barrack for him to do well.

It's even easier to barrack for him when he's playing against those thugs

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Will not be at the saints after that game!

[The Recruit]

One game doesn’t make living and playing on the gold coast away from family and friends any better.

Bottom line
Max has signed a big contract
Ben has held off negotiating an extension.
If he was staying he would have signed on for two more years after 2022 by now

If anything
Playing and living in Melb for the next three weeks might make Ben realise how much he wants to come home

[Banger9798]

Get him

[SaintJohno]

Get him

I agree, once these guys get their bodies bigger and their confidence right they're going to be scary for opposition to deal with x 2.

[Teflon]

Yep to Bing and if reports are right he may even have an early exit clause in that latest contract he signed...
Either way will be interesting off-season and we’ll know early one way or another ....he either re-signs with GC (you can imagine they’ll want it done ASAP and not let him go into 2022 in his last year..) IF he doesn’t do that extension by end this season I think it’s on.

[skeptic]

Geeez I bet Max would love that delivery. Reckon he’s the better contested mark at this stage but Ben is better at finding space

[The Fireman]

Welcome to the Saints Ben

[Teflon]

Geeez I bet Max would love that delivery. Reckon he’s the better contested mark at this stage but Ben is better at finding space

And you would be right - saw the below post on BF thought it interesting (been banned lately so had lots more Tim to peruse) ...interesting reading but to me...Ben clearly plays the lead up role better ...,Max far better contested ....point is play 1 at roaming CHF/Link player and other out of square .....we’d be a nightmare (still grab mid with this years pick and pray to god we get an academy steal too...)

******************************

The main differences are
- Ben has kicked straight while Max has not. Ben had 55 shots on goal in his 14 games this year and converting at 61.8% while Max has had 48 shots from his 13 games and converting at 37.5%.

- While Ben has 6 more marks inside 50 this year, Max has significantly more contested marks.

- Ben has had 4 GA this year compared to Max's 9, which could be explained by each sides forward set up or Ben backing himself more to kick the goal but the difference in that number just stood out in comparison to how similar all their other numbers are.

And when you look at their one-on-one win rate, Max is in the top bracket alongside Hawkins having a 44% win rate in those contests while only losing 16%. While Ben struggles in one-on-ones with his win rate at 25% while his loss rate is at 39% which puts him 2nd to Josh Bruce for having the worst win-loss differential. This might have more to do with how Gold Coast set up their forward line or move the ball, but also shows the impact of Max's contested marking ability up forward compared to Ben who does better getting that separation from defender to get the uncontested mark.

All this to say, Max isn't really behind his brother in terms of quality. He just has the yips.

[saintsRrising]

Geeez I bet Max would love that delivery. Reckon he’s the better contested mark at this stage but Ben is better at finding space

And you would be right - saw the below post on BF thought it interesting (been banned lately so had lots more Tim to peruse) ...interesting reading but to me...Ben clearly plays the lead up role better ...,Max far better contested ....point is play 1 at roaming CHF/Link player and other out of square .....we’d be a nightmare (still grab mid with this years pick and pray to god we get an academy steal too...)

******************************

The main differences are
- Ben has kicked straight while Max has not. Ben had 55 shots on goal in his 14 games this year and converting at 61.8% while Max has had 48 shots from his 13 games and converting at 37.5%.

- While Ben has 6 more marks inside 50 this year, Max has significantly more contested marks.

- Ben has had 4 GA this year compared to Max's 9, which could be explained by each sides forward set up or Ben backing himself more to kick the goal but the difference in that number just stood out in comparison to how similar all their other numbers are.

And when you look at their one-on-one win rate, Max is in the top bracket alongside Hawkins having a 44% win rate in those contests while only losing 16%. While Ben struggles in one-on-ones with his win rate at 25% while his loss rate is at 39% which puts him 2nd to Josh Bruce for having the worst win-loss differential. This might have more to do with how Gold Coast set up their forward line or move the ball, but also shows the impact of Max's contested marking ability up forward compared to Ben who does better getting that separation from defender to get the uncontested mark.

All this to say, Max isn't really behind his brother in terms of quality. He just has the yips.

That plus the ACL and all the lost recovery time. Ben effectively has a year head start on Max.

Ben has had more experience at the highest level, and more of a run to build his body and tank.

Ben is at 46 games and Max at 31. Typically many players start to really fond their feet after 50 odd games. Big forwards probably longer than that.


With both players they will certainly get a lot, lot better yet.