Luke Dunstan

[CQ SAINT]

Ross's athleticism allows him to have twice as many uncontested possessions as he does contested possessions.
His skill set and role have him handballing almost as often as he kicks.
His impact has dropped off over the last couple seasons but I would have thought he would be in his prime.
If a 30+ possesion average makes you an A grader and top 50 league player, then his current output of 21.5, in a side missing its outside, line breaking mids and he goes 60% uncontested with top 5 speed and endurance, you might be excused for question his skill and decision making
Some of us have always admired his professionalism, his commitment and his athleticism but his skill level is frustrating.
I'm trying not to bag him but this isn't about me.

[saynta]

Is Ross a worse player now than 2017?

Or is he just playing a different role??

Different role with Crouch and Dunstan playing and Steele dominating the centre clearances.

Certainly still a valuable player and definitely not C grade. That is f****** insulting to a club champion.

Who kicked the sealer last Friday night?

We know who kicked the winner. Wood and Mackenzie play roles too, they are C graders and they also kicked a few crucial goals. Kicked the sealer???? That's a bit of a reach. The game was sealed in the backline.

As usual I stick by what I post and couldn't give a stuff if I hurt someone's feelings.

[saynta]

Dunny is going to get more money, more love and more appreciation next year.

Unfortunately it won't be with the Saints

[freely]

I wish we'd implemented the rotating captaincy and had a chance to see them both (Ross and Dunstan) in the role.

[skeptic]

Dunny is going to get more money, more love and more appreciation next year.

Unfortunately it won't be with the Saints

Would be disappointing if that’s the case

Say what you will about how the Saints have developed Dunstan… one thing is for sure, he has not been bereft of opportunity. Been on the list since 2013, 100+ games, has had a lot of opportunities to definitively cement his spot in the top 22.

Would be a terrible to see him walk when the club has persevered with him for so long and he’s now in career beat form

[Vortex]

Dunny is going to get more money, more love and more appreciation next year.

Unfortunately it won't be with the Saints

Would be disappointing if that’s the case

Say what you will about how the Saints have developed Dunstan… one thing is for sure, he has not been bereft of opportunity. Been on the list since 2013, 100+ games, has had a lot of opportunities to definitively cement his spot in the top 22.

Would be a terrible to see him walk when the club has persevered with him for so long and he’s now in career beat form

Is it possible he's having a good run of form because his papers were stamped after the thrashing by the Tiges earlier in the season and he is taking his opportunity to save his AFL career. That would be terrible and that would be on Dunny but I think he is gone unless he maintains 25 to 30 possessions in every game until the season ends at which point the club might offer him another year, but I don't think the form he is showing now is sustainable for that long and especially for the next 3-5 years to remain on our list.

[skeptic]

Dunny is going to get more money, more love and more appreciation next year.

Unfortunately it won't be with the Saints

Would be disappointing if that’s the case

Say what you will about how the Saints have developed Dunstan… one thing is for sure, he has not been bereft of opportunity. Been on the list since 2013, 100+ games, has had a lot of opportunities to definitively cement his spot in the top 22.

Would be a terrible to see him walk when the club has persevered with him for so long and he’s now in career beat form

Is it possible he's having a good run of form because his papers were stamped after the thrashing by the Tiges earlier in the season and he is taking his opportunity to save his AFL career. That would be terrible and that would be on Dunny but I think he is gone unless he maintains 25 to 30 possessions in every game until the season ends at which point the club might offer him another year, but I don't think the form he is showing now is sustainable for that long and especially for the next 3-5 years to remain on our list.

It is a very good question.

I don’t know whether it’s because he’s been working harder and is fitter as a result, or is just more desperate because his career was seemingly on knife’s edge a month ago…
But it does make we wonder if Luke really has worked as hard over the last 5 years as he could have. Given the difficulty he’s had running out games, and the reported off-field shenanigan… I wonder if he’s partied a bit more than he’s worked at times.

It pbly has also exposed the the lack of leadership both on and off-field. It’s an issue still IMO… as said in the Hamil thread, whose the guy that will kick your butt if you’re not doing what you need to

[bigcarl]

If Dunstan does end up elsewhere it might be another one that comes back to bite us … big time.

He’s the type of player who could, for example, turn a team like Carlton from an also-ran to a contender. He is hard and deceptively strong. He would top off their midfield perfectly.

[B.M]

He would be great in any midfield that has pace

Would compliment Merrett and Parish beautifully

Could replace Cotchin, who is fallen off a cliff and is no good

Be good at Freo, with Cerra and Brayshaw

At least half of the clubs in the AFL could do with Luke

[Scollop]

He is the most underrated player by fans I have ever known at StK in my time supporting.

He is not Bont, he is not Fyfe or Danger. Obviously.

But he is a very good AFL mid, evident by his career to date.

Supporters seem to link him to the AR era and almost blame him for the mediocrity. He was the best mid, so it was his fault StK were average? Strange thinking?? Even his B&Fs were worthless or he didn’t deserve them
Funnily enough, in his best season 2017 where he was in the AA squad we won 11 or 12 games. He AVERAGED around 30 possessions. Polled a lazy 14 Brownlow votes.

Whipping boys are generally players who are limited or underperforming players who supporters can only see faults
Ralph Clarke, Jack Newnes, MAV Weller, Jack Lonie. Amongst others

Seb Ross is the only dual B&F whipping boy in my memory

It’s like supporters want him to be bad

I don't have an issue with Seb. I don't want him to be bad

I have an issue with fans and commentators who look at stats and decide who should be given votes. Some umpires who vote in the Brownlow have admitted that they check stats before voting. I have heard the special comments guys on radio and t.v say that they go to the stat sheet before voting. I know of newspaper journos and radio footy commentators who have even voted for best on ground based on stats without even watching a game!!

It really annoys me that a handful of cheap possessions sideways and even clangers and short dribble kicks under pressure are valued more than a big bloke taking a contested mark. I think a crucial mark at a critical time in a game is worth 5 disposals. I think if a forward follows it up with a goal, then that is what wins games and also with a defender getting 3 or 4 spoils or starting a scoring chain from the backline with a precision kick to someone in space...that is what I value more than some short dinky give and go 1-2 handballs.

The coaches votes are another subjective voting system that isn't always the best guide for who was best on ground. Lots of times the opposition coaches couldn't give a rats clacker who gets the votes when their team loses and somtimes if they're a young player and their team got close, they may even vote for that player to reward their 'effort'

When Josh Bruce was in the team, he wasn't considered a valuable or influentual player with 2 goals and a handful of contested marks because he only had 9 possessions for the day!! Sorry, but I just don't rate 10-15 cheap keepings off possessions. I rate a big bloke who can crash packs, provide a chop out in defense or run all the way to the half back line to give an option when our full back is kicking out

I think Sebby was lucky in 2017 that Joey and Stuv were in the team and they probably copped a bit closer checking than what he would have. Seb had some brilliant games in 2017 and that was easily his best year. He deserved his B&F (even if I disagreed with it and thought that Robbo should have won it).

I was probably harsh on him in 2018 and 2019 because we weren't going well as a team, but I also don't think he had moments in games the way Steven, or Marshall or Membrey or a few other lesser lights could. The name of the game is winning. I don't think he has enough match winning moments or inspirational moments for a bloke who has won 2 Best and Fairests

[The_Dud]

Billings, Dunstan, Acres, McCartin, Goddard, Mckenzie, Lonie, Gresham, White, Rice, Long, Battle, Phillips, Clark, Coffield, Paton, Clavarino, King, Bytel, Parker, Hind…

How many of our recent top draft picks have we developed to reach (or exceed) their initial potential?

Pretty clear there’s a bigger problem going on than just Dunstan not quite making it so far.

[B.M]

A key forwards job is to take marks and kick goals.

A small forwards is to crumb and pressure

A backman is there to defend or run and create

Mids are their to win the footy, get their hands on the pill more than their opponents.
The old saying is “if you’ve got the ball, they don’t”

You make it sound like all of Sebs disposals are backline keeping off junk time stats in fact he played as an inside mid at the time. And trust me, playing that role, at that level, you earn possessions.

He won the B&Fs
Voted on by the coaching staff, who know a hell of a lot more than me or you. If he didn’t deserve them, he wouldn’t have won them. That simple!

Question
Why does it annoy you that he has performed well and is rated, would you rather him not be rated? Is it because you don’t rate him??

[Scollop]

He would be great in any midfield that has pace

Would compliment Merrett and Parish beautifully

Could replace Cotchin, who is fallen off a cliff and is no good

Be good at Freo, with Cerra and Brayshaw

At least half of the clubs in the AFL could do with Luke

Carlton were nuts for not taking him. They might not get another chance

[Scollop]

"Question
Why does it annoy you that he has performed well and is rated, would you rather him not be rated? Is it because you don’t rate him??"

That's a s*** question

I already told you that I don't have an issue with Seb

I have an issue with how people vote for best on ground

[B.M]

Don’t they have the biggest and most powerful (albeit a bit slow) inside mid in the AFL?

[Scollop]

We have Steele, Crouch, and Dunny

Brisbane have 3 or more inside mids

Melbourne have Viney, Tractor and Oliver

Dogs have 3-4

Why should Carlton only rely on Cripps?

[B.M]

It’s a fair question

Given the post making light of his ability, achievements and value

Since he was lucky Joey played in 2017 (who played as a running back - so irrelevant) and he’s no good relative to opposition

How does that explain him making the AA squad?

Down play him as much as you want

When he finishes at Stk
He will have played 150+ games
He will have won 2 Trevor Barker awards
Runner up in another
Been Vice Captain and Acting Captain

That’s not bad - for a whipping boy

[Scollop]

You're making stuff up. Where did I directly say I don't value or rate him? I said this;

"Seb had some brilliant games in 2017 and that was easily his best year. He deserved his B&F.."

"I don't think he has enough match winning moments or inspirational moments for a bloke who has won 2 Best and Fairests"

I specifically said I don't rate the way most fans, journos, commentators and umpires vote for BOG (and some coaches sometimes - not often or always - but sometimes the coaches votes are not reperesentative of players that influenced the result of a game)

[B.M]

It was mentioned that he was lucky in 2017 that Montagna and Steven played - bizarre rationale

It was intimated that he got cheap possessions

And the tone of the email was that Seb should not be rated as highly as his accolades suggest because some fans don’t rate him

[The_Dud]

Is Ross a better player than Brendan Goddard or NDS because he's won two TB awards and they've won none?

[B.M]

No

You can add Leigh Montagna to the list too

All three were multiple AAs

NDS 3 times AA, RU B&F and top 4 finish twice

BJ and Joey both were dual AA
Joey twice RU B&F and a 3rd
BJ Runner Up a third (BJ won a B&F. At ESS)

Another question would be
Are those players as good as Nick Reiwoldt or Lenny Hayes
Because the reason they weren’t B&Fs was Because of Roo (6) and Lenny (3) plus Sam Fisher.

Are you suggesting Sebs Trevor Barker awards are not indicative of him being any good?

[samoht]

L.D. ... good, different. Underappreciated, I'd say.
Might be very good and could make a real difference at another team (think of Hind, etc)?

(Battle would probably flourish elsewhere, too? )

[saynta]

It was mentioned that he was lucky in 2017 that Montagna and Steven played - bizarre rationale

It was intimated that he got cheap possessions

And the tone of the email was that Seb should not be rated as highly as his accolades suggest because some fans don’t rate him

This...."It was mentioned that he was lucky in 2017 that Montagna and Steven played - bizarre rationale"

What a weird comment and just so f****** wrong.

[Sanctorum]

Overall the stats show that Luke Dunstan is having a better season than Seb Ross, but in the latter's defence, Ross has been given a different role this year and appears to be more of a utility around the ground, whereas Dunstan gets down and dirty in the contests at stoppages.

The way things stand and given their age, I wouldn't mind betting that the club will offer a new contract to Dunstan ahead of Ross, who could possibly attract interest from another club, especially GC Suns who have made it clear they are keen to get some experienced players to go there next year.

[Vortex]

Overall the stats show that Luke Dunstan is having a better season than Seb Ross, but in the latter's defence, Ross has been given a different role this year and appears to be more of a utility around the ground, whereas Dunstan gets down and dirty in the contests at stoppages.

The way things stand and given their age, I wouldn't mind betting that the club will offer a new contract to Dunstan ahead of Ross, who could possibly attract interest from another club, especially GC Suns who have made it clear they are keen to get some experienced players to go there next year.

I reckon Sebby is in a group of players we shouldn't be letting go however if the suns gave us their pick 3 and we could pass that pick onto Melbourne for Sam Weiderman then would we do it?