Seb Ross, Tim Membrey, Jake Carlisle family leave.

[Sanctorum]

I hear your frustration and we all don't have to agree ( and some even do this without abuse as we have shown here ). i think your last line "we dont know the circumstances" is where i am willing to provide the benefit of the doubt to the individuals, especially based on their track records and service to the club so far, others i may have raised eyebrows.

I actually think some at the top are trying to re set the culture of STKFC to one of a caring and considerate place in an attempt to become a "club of choice", especially to the younger generation who have different ideas to those of 15-20 years ago. It is possible to have this and still have a cut throat will to win on the field - ( the modern verison of Hawthorn the family club of the 80s). We can't compete financially so IF , and it is a huge IF, this is the case it may be a smart play.
What needs to follow however is more accountability on the field and those responsible for what is put on the field. That is the bit which for the past 10 years has not been anywhere near good enough.

Amazing how this topic has generated so much debate pro and con, but I was far more impressed with what Jack Riewoldt and Adam Treloar stated when asked about their views on AFL360 last night. In case you missed it, both emphatically supported Ross and Membrey taking leave of absence to be with their families in their time of need, and that they would not hesitate to put their family ahead of football commitments.

I would be most surprised if there was one St Kilda player who would have condemned Ross and Membrey and consider media speculation that there was dissension in the playing group about this as utter BS and mischief making - was there even a whisper of this nature when Paddy Ryder took special leave for a month at the start of the season to visit his family interstate???

Likewise Caroline Wilson who is known for muck-raking to get a headline and you can bet your bottom dollar she would have written a completely opposite story if the club had refused to let the three players put family before football!

Lastly, the absence of Ross and Membrey had nothing to do with the 2nd half capitulation to the Crows in Cairns - it was the failure of the same players that were able to lead the Crows by 6 goals that lost all sense of team play after Hunter Clark was poleaxed out of the game by David MacKay!

[devil saint]

I don't want to pass any judgement on this situation because we don't have all the facts but I think these players are very fortunate to have been able to make the choice.
My partner and I both work in "professional" industries and I know there would be more than questions asked if either of us asked to take a week off.
And if leave was granted, it would be leave without pay.

[barwon saint]

Nathan Brown tearing it up with Barwon Heads this year even kicked 7 goals one game.

[amusingname]

Maybe Seb spoke to his wife and thought she was struggling and needed him there? He would be the one who knows her best. It might be something that he didn't want to disclose, given its may not be his mental health we are talking about. Also, people saying that they can afford nanny's and other help, Melbourne was in the middle of lockdown, maybe that wasn't possible.

We are also talking about 2 senior leaders of the playing group who have at no point that I am aware of, been a disruptive influence or had questions about their commitment to the club. If discussions were had and that is now settled, I would hope that is the end of it (if it ever was) being an issue.

[The_Dud]

To answer your question no you can't have a mature conversation.
Just like I can't say why without getting a ban for politics.

I think we sort of managed to get somewhere. It is highly risky, touch and go, post to post, but we have acknowledged the grey, the subjectivity involved.

I am surprised nobody took up the prompt to look at Melbourne, and the way they managed the McDonald EBS (Expecting Baby Situation). They said he is going to Sydney. Of course it is all case-by-case and we all different, however some will forget the nuances and jump for their rifles for doctrine and demonstration purposes..

I thank all the posters who contributed to this, including you ace, because yes, we are of course drifting into mined waters if you speak anything 'off message'.

Feel sorry for Ratts too.

And again, I am flummoxed as to why people don't even question how Brown was allowed to slip his contract obligations mid-season last year. Mid-contract, and of course, when Carlisle went we needed him. Instead of asking questions about our management we said, 'Good on ya big fella, great service'. COVID will be mentioned of course...OK...so its just not an excuse to throw the book away. Again, I point to Melbourne as being strong with McDonald.

But it is not the players' fault that they have this mindset...its a cultural thing the Players Association , the managers etc., senior players like Jack Riewoldt is tough to listen to nowadays.

Anyway, great work to even have some level of dialogue instead of a witch burning fest.

The Brown situation seems pretty simple to me.

He was faced with the prospect of spending months away from his young family in the middle of a pandemic to be a backup and not play football, in the last year of his career.

A no brainer from his end.

Dud,

Respectfully, it is fgar from a no brainer for me.

He was contracted precisely for this scenario....in his last year of football, yes, last year - so what? its a one year contract! he signed it. Back-up! He was a back-up!

I don't begrudge him personally, and I would wanna get out of there too...

All this nonsense about 'warrior' and 'fine servant' etc., makes no sense in a professional environment.

Would you let your superannuation be managed by a guy who quits after he is contracted to perform something.

Browns loss infuriates me... and yet, can you believe i like him and I respect him, and had that hole in the gate been open for me I would jump through it and escape ion a flash!

Brown's loss was tragic. he could have covered for Carlisle. Those in the organization that let him slip, that's OK, you lose some, win some, but you don't win a flag and you don't win games of footy.

Just bare that in mind when we hang Ratten in the gallows next year.

And of course, Ratten would be fully behind Brown leaving...I have no doubt he doesn't mind that he left, but that is not the argument.

And one more time....yes, family is more important than footy! Of course it is...for heaven's sake.

There was nothing in the contract that he signed about being away from his family for months.

[The_Dud]

I don't want to pass any judgement on this situation because we don't have all the facts but I think these players are very fortunate to have been able to make the choice.
My partner and I both work in "professional" industries and I know there would be more than questions asked if either of us asked to take a week off.
And if leave was granted, it would be leave without pay.

Paid carers/sick leave is an entitlement for all full and part time employees in Australia.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Unbelievable , are you writing this from a time machine in 1955

Your words seem to imply that to play football you need to be a “man” of certain qualities and should not display certain other qualities

Are you suggesting that to show empathy precludes you from been courageous or disciplined etc, because if so I would love to introduce to any number of men or women who display all virtues named above including empathy.

Your comment suggesting that empathy validates emotional fluctuations is the type of attitude that women have always faced . The attitude in the workplace that a strong and passionate woman is overly emotional yet a strong man and passionate is masculinity personified.

I think he is suggesting we have over steered in that direction.

I'm talking about a team that has sychronised breathing before games (at ever quarter break, possibly). Brad Johnson for one ssaid he'd be embarrassed doing that.

They meditate on the ground pre-match.

They have a "hugging room" just off the change rooms.

They allowed the players to control their own fitness programmes over the off-season.

They grant "compassionate leave" at the drop of a hat.

They have Pride Round, Depression Round and a CEO who wanted gender neutral toilets at Marvel.

They're also the least successful side in AFL/VFL history, ten million in debt and facing possible extinction.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

I just don't think Ross Lyon or GT would have stood for this malarkey.

It seems that where you are coming from is the history of the club and somehow relating it 2 years of player group practice, in which last year, despite all the set backs, the team finished in the 8 won a final and broke a 9 year success drought.
You seem a little intimidated by men who are prepared to be vulnerable and totally discounting the Covid effect, and the fact that several key players have missed huge chunks of last year and also this year.
I'm not sure what you are on about to be honest.

I'm saying if I were a player I'd feel ridiculous doing synchronised breathing, on-ground meditation and one-on-one hugs (or group hugs for that matter).

II'd yearm for some tough love.

I'm also seeing a team that can't run out games and, worse, doesn't seem to want to.

As if someone hurt their feelings or "there are more important things in life that football".

Five humiliationg losses in thriteen rounds.

Ten years of the most mediocre/uninspiring St Kilda side in my lifetime.

As Caro suggested, are they trying to win Employer of the Year? Because it sure seems more important than winning games right now.

[freely]

Likewise Caroline Wilson who is known for muck-raking to get a headline and you can bet your bottom dollar she would have written a completely opposite story if the club had refused to let the three players put family before football!

Well der. That's her job, mate. Writing whatever the story is.

[The_Dud]

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Unbelievable , are you writing this from a time machine in 1955

Your words seem to imply that to play football you need to be a “man” of certain qualities and should not display certain other qualities

Are you suggesting that to show empathy precludes you from been courageous or disciplined etc, because if so I would love to introduce to any number of men or women who display all virtues named above including empathy.

Your comment suggesting that empathy validates emotional fluctuations is the type of attitude that women have always faced . The attitude in the workplace that a strong and passionate woman is overly emotional yet a strong man and passionate is masculinity personified.

I think he is suggesting we have over steered in that direction.

I'm talking about a team that has sychronised breathing before games (at ever quarter break, possibly). Brad Johnson for one ssaid he'd be embarrassed doing that.

They meditate on the ground pre-match.

They have a "hugging room" just off the change rooms.

They allowed the players to control their own fitness programmes over the off-season.

They grant "compassionate leave" at the drop of a hat.

They have Pride Round, Depression Round and a CEO who wanted gender neutral toilets at Marvel.

They're also the least successful side in AFL/VFL history, ten million in debt and facing possible extinction.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

I just don't think Ross Lyon or GT would have stood for this malarkey.

It seems that where you are coming from is the history of the club and somehow relating it 2 years of player group practice, in which last year, despite all the set backs, the team finished in the 8 won a final and broke a 9 year success drought.
You seem a little intimidated by men who are prepared to be vulnerable and totally discounting the Covid effect, and the fact that several key players have missed huge chunks of last year and also this year.
I'm not sure what you are on about to be honest.

I'm saying if I were a player I'd feel ridiculous doing synchronised breathing, on-ground meditation and one-on-one hugs (or group hugs for that matter).

II'd yearm for some tough love.

I'm also seeing a team that can't run out games and, worse, doesn't seem to want to.

As if someone hurt their feelings or "there are more important things in life that football".

Five humiliationg losses in thriteen rounds.

Ten years of the most mediocre/uninspiring St Kilda side in my lifetime.

As Caro suggested, are they trying to win Employer of the Year? Because it sure seems more important than winning games right now.

And depression is for sissies like Danny Frawley, eh?

[Waltzing St Kilda]

As Caro suggested, are they trying to win Employer of the Year? Because it sure seems more important than winning games right now.

And depression is for sissies like Danny Frawley, eh?


[/quote]

Stupid post. There are a million ways to honour Spud, like the Danny Frawley Centre, but making a yearly round out of it is a mistake, IMHO. Sure, Melbourne is a better side than we suspected in Round Two, but (as many observers commented at the time) the whole atmosphere surrounding that game didn't do us any favours.

Of course there are more important things in life than football.

I just don't want my players thinking that while they've got a St Kilda guernsey on.

[CQ SAINT]

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Unbelievable , are you writing this from a time machine in 1955

Your words seem to imply that to play football you need to be a “man” of certain qualities and should not display certain other qualities

Are you suggesting that to show empathy precludes you from been courageous or disciplined etc, because if so I would love to introduce to any number of men or women who display all virtues named above including empathy.

Your comment suggesting that empathy validates emotional fluctuations is the type of attitude that women have always faced . The attitude in the workplace that a strong and passionate woman is overly emotional yet a strong man and passionate is masculinity personified.

I think he is suggesting we have over steered in that direction.

I'm talking about a team that has sychronised breathing before games (at ever quarter break, possibly). Brad Johnson for one ssaid he'd be embarrassed doing that.

They meditate on the ground pre-match.

They have a "hugging room" just off the change rooms.

They allowed the players to control their own fitness programmes over the off-season.

They grant "compassionate leave" at the drop of a hat.

They have Pride Round, Depression Round and a CEO who wanted gender neutral toilets at Marvel.

They're also the least successful side in AFL/VFL history, ten million in debt and facing possible extinction.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

I just don't think Ross Lyon or GT would have stood for this malarkey.

It seems that where you are coming from is the history of the club and somehow relating it 2 years of player group practice, in which last year, despite all the set backs, the team finished in the 8 won a final and broke a 9 year success drought.
You seem a little intimidated by men who are prepared to be vulnerable and totally discounting the Covid effect, and the fact that several key players have missed huge chunks of last year and also this year.
I'm not sure what you are on about to be honest.

I'm saying if I were a player I'd feel ridiculous doing synchronised breathing, on-ground meditation and one-on-one hugs (or group hugs for that matter).

II'd yearm for some tough love.

I'm also seeing a team that can't run out games and, worse, doesn't seem to want to.

As if someone hurt their feelings or "there are more important things in life that football".

Five humiliationg losses in thriteen rounds.

Ten years of the most mediocre/uninspiring St Kilda side in my lifetime.

As Caro suggested, are they trying to win Employer of the Year? Because it sure seems more important than winning games right now.

I get that you'd feel weird about it and that you are unhappy about the losses, that's understandable.
The rest is just your opinion and frankly, seems a little jaded given a large portion of the list has been turned over in recent times and some very key members aren't available.
Half the squad didn't play regularly last year and they all have very limited experience as a group. There is currently no reserves again.
You have no idea what is being said within the confines of the playing group and football department despite how things appear.
And our team isn't the only team on the ground, clearly, other teams are gelling better.

[B.M]

I see Nathan Brown a lot whilst running, he is still in ripping nick!!! He’s running just wee a little bit harder than me…

But I think he mentally checked out last year

[B.M]

Would my family come first?

Depends on the situation… if it wasn’t absolutely necessary (illness)

My 10 000k per week job where people depend on me would!!!

[shanegrambeau]

Would my family come first?

Depends on the situation… if it wasn’t absolutely necessary (illness)

My 10 000k per week job where people depend on me would!!!

Of course.. people make sacrifices in order to work and fulfill their work responsibilities all the time..

This black and white thing is ridiculous.

Jack Riewoldt, bless his sweet heart, really.

Ask a coal miner.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Off-topic but may I add that covering up COVENTRY with FRAWLEY at Marvel Stadium is a bugbear of mine.

Perfectly acceptable for one match but otherwise highly disrespectful to the Coventry family.

The sort of supremely arrogant thing the Injectors do.

And a sign of an admin that's great at virtue signalling but has no real class.

[older saint]

Bigger question - WHO IS THE LEAK !

[B.M]

Or someone in the military serving overseas

I spent 8 months in the gulf in 91/92 and didn’t get the option of coming home, even though I was really homesick and wanted out!!!

[The_Dud]

Some seriously hopeless comparisons being thrown around now!

[B.M]

Why is that???

It’s not just a game of local footy

It’s a multi million dollar business

Jobs are always on the line, that means livelihoods

You lose games of footy, careers end!!!

People have gone on Ashes tours and missed births, first words, first steps, milestones, family deaths.

It’s the nature of professional sport

You sign a contract

[Waltzing St Kilda]

As Kane Cornes said, these blokes are getting CEO-level salaries.

Having said all that, I reckon the club let Ross and Membrey go because they long ago accepted the season was over.

And they know we desperately need low draft picks to make up for past blunders.

[CQ SAINT]

I have several mates who work FIFO, Through them, I know over 60 FIFO workers and socialise with them several times a year. Most of them are single parents.
I've observed, that without a very strong commitment to family; debt, divorce, drug addiction and dysfunction come with the territory and the 3 figure wage.
I'm glad I went to Uni. My lifestyle is sustainable in the long term.
AFL footballers travel for less than 48 hour stints, earn much more money and have the eyes of the nation on them. Very few get to play for longer than five years.
For most, reality hits when the career is over. Its a falsehood to believe that money relieves any of the pressures that FIFO workers face for AFL footballers.
If you are smart, committed and well grounded and have a family, you have probably outlasted most others in the sport and you will put family first when you are asked to.
Only the extremely talented and truly self absorbed, can afford to do otherwise.
Mega rich AFL footballers are fairly new phenomenon in the context of the history of the game.
The fame is a real high, but the fall is a lonely ride if your values won't hold you up.
Not many achieve the ultimate goal, it isn't fortune and none of them can do it single-handedly.

[CQ SAINT]

As Kane Cornes said, these blokes are getting CEO-level salaries.

Having said all that, I reckon the club let Ross and Membrey go because they long ago accepted the season was over.

And they know we desperately need low draft picks to make up for past blunders.

Pre covid, McLaughlin was on $1.7m and he's never played a game.

[sunsaint]

As Kane Cornes said, these blokes are getting CEO-level salaries.

Having said all that, I reckon the club let Ross and Membrey go because they long ago accepted the season was over.

And they know we desperately need low draft picks to make up for past blunders.

Again it what you say is true about the club's thinking
Then come out and say it
No controversy. End of story

They didn't and it's very clear that like many of us here, the club hierarchy was very split on the matter

[The_Dud]

Why is that???

It’s not just a game of local footy

It’s a multi million dollar business

Jobs are always on the line, that means livelihoods

You lose games of footy, careers end!!!

People have gone on Ashes tours and missed births, first words, first steps, milestones, family deaths.

It’s the nature of professional sport

You sign a contract

The players aren't coal miners, FIFO workers, in the Defence Force, or professional cricketers. People go in to all those roles with their eyes wide open about the travel and time away from family that is part of the job. Otherwise they don't go into those industries.

Where in the contract AFL footballers sign did it say they'd be away from their families for weeks and months on end in the middle of a pandemic?

And despite that still 99% of them went along with it no problem.

Wage is still irrelevant. They get paid so much because that's how much revenue the sport earns, its not a reflection of the importance of their job in the world. And anyway, the players are paid by the AFL (it's not St Kilda's money) and Seb and Membrey missing a game does not cost the AFL one cent in lost revenue, the game still goes on, the same amount of people still turn up and still watch it on TV.

Potentially losing footy matches and careers would have all been factors when coming to the decision, and in the end this was the best path for them both. I'm sure there are many many more instances when these things are weighed up and the player chooses to play, and we never hear anything about it.

[saynta]

I hear your frustration and we all don't have to agree ( and some even do this without abuse as we have shown here ). i think your last line "we dont know the circumstances" is where i am willing to provide the benefit of the doubt to the individuals, especially based on their track records and service to the club so far, others i may have raised eyebrows.

I actually think some at the top are trying to re set the culture of STKFC to one of a caring and considerate place in an attempt to become a "club of choice", especially to the younger generation who have different ideas to those of 15-20 years ago. It is possible to have this and still have a cut throat will to win on the field - ( the modern verison of Hawthorn the family club of the 80s). We can't compete financially so IF , and it is a huge IF, this is the case it may be a smart play.
What needs to follow however is more accountability on the field and those responsible for what is put on the field. That is the bit which for the past 10 years has not been anywhere near good enough.

Amazing how this topic has generated so much debate pro and con, but I was far more impressed with what Jack Riewoldt and Adam Treloar stated when asked about their views on AFL360 last night. In case you missed it, both emphatically supported Ross and Membrey taking leave of absence to be with their families in their time of need, and that they would not hesitate to put their family ahead of football commitments.

I would be most surprised if there was one St Kilda player who would have condemned Ross and Membrey and consider media speculation that there was dissension in the playing group about this as utter BS and mischief making - was there even a whisper of this nature when Paddy Ryder took special leave for a month at the start of the season to visit his family interstate???

Likewise Caroline Wilson who is known for muck-raking to get a headline and you can bet your bottom dollar she would have written a completely opposite story if the club had refused to let the three players put family before football!

Lastly, the absence of Ross and Membrey had nothing to do with the 2nd half capitulation to the Crows in Cairns - it was the failure of the same players that were able to lead the Crows by 6 goals that lost all sense of team play after Hunter Clark was poleaxed out of the game by David MacKay!

Great post mate and I fully agree with you comments re that despicable Wilson woman.

Caro has always been a poisonous bitch were the saints are concerned.

Always looking for dirt when there is none.

Schoolgirl nonsense anyone?