Seb Ross, Tim Membrey, Jake Carlisle family leave.

[CQ SAINT]

A few long bows being drawn in the OP.

Football is a job, and family is more important than work. If I went to my employer tomorrow and said I need 2 weeks off for family reasons, they'd say "no worries, is 2 weeks enough?"

Also forcing someone to do something they don't want isn't the best way to get optimal performance.

Yeah - do you earn between 500-800k a year? Is your work determined by 6 months of the year results? My employer would do the same for me as yours would. Yet I understand that my circumstances don't demand anything like what these guys do.

Speaking of long bows. Comparing Gary Ablett juniors situation to our players by one poster on here is ridiculous. If a member of Seb or Tim's family were critically ill or there was a problem with the health of a loved one, particularly an immediate family member, then taking time off is a no brainer. Bloody hell, Seb had already missed a game so that he could be at the birth.

We're part time footballers supported by a coach who I reckon has been massively influenced by tragic events in his life which is clouding his judgement on these things.

Family is more important than work? Yeah righto, until there is no work and your family isn't very happy with you. These guys are millionaire footballers who can afford nanny's, cleaners, cooks if they want. They live a lifestyle most of us would kill for. Partners are struggling with young children at home so they take off whilst the season is on the line and the club is cruelled with injuries. If it weren't so pathetic it would be laughable.

Such a flippant comment, 'family is more important.' As the OP states, almost impossible to argue against until you see the circumstances. Makes you sound like a good compassionate guy when you argue for it as if there's no grey. I see ppl literally tearing the club to shreds on social media for our loss on the weekend. I GUARANTEE that a good % of them would have been all for Seb and Tim going home to their partners. The irony being that if both had of played on Saturday night, we almost certainly would have won. Well if you're all for players taking off to hold their partners hand then you really have no right to squeal about the result on the weekend, especially when we lose by under a goal.

Bravo Moods brilliantly positioned argument I support your views!!!

Money helps, but it doesn't make happy families, as we witness when we invade the personal lives of these high paid footballers, particularly in life after football. These people are footballers for a short time and human their whole life.

[lewdogs]

I agree with the sentiments of the OP, though it's hard to argue against time off for the birth of a baby every now and then.

What might be called "the Finnis mindset" has taken over this club and I don't believe it's a good thing. Finnis was CEO of the Players Association and came to the club with a "player welfare first" mentality.

Add to that an admin that was eager to distance itself from the trumped-up scandals of the past (e.g. the St Kilda schoolgirl) and you have a perfect storm of wokeness.

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Thank you guys and gals? For participating and not slamming down the ol sledgehammer with blanket statements.

There are shades of grey.

Anyone who invests in the aged care business in Australia knows it too well…Aussie for all our ‘inclusiveness’ mantra treat our oldies pretty badly…

Aged care facilities here I come…if i am lucky…pension has gone to pot.

Footballers are young people parade their babies around like pendants of pride before th crowds..fair enough, while granny goes off to the care centre.

I m in no position to judge anyone as individuals….but i ask the question…how do you run a business?

Take Nathan brown.. the conversation as far as i know, goes like this.


2019

St Kilda: “Nathan Brown, we’d like to offer you a contract for 2020, wwe need a backup, we value your leadership, are you in?”
Nathan Brown: “Yep, I’m in. Sign me up!”
St Kilda: “No kidding around Nathan, we mean business, arre you sure? 2020, one year contract, OK”
Nathan Brown: “I’m in…I said I’m in. Where do I sign”
….mid-season 2020…St Kilda starts well, but is getting found out….
Nathan Brown: “Look, I’m jack of this. I’m out”
St Kilda: “Sure, Nathan. We understand that! We are inclusive. Family first always! Good on ya mate..Job well done. You can go…just forget it …spend time with your family…oh…make sure you tell Shane Savage that training’s on at 4pm and wwe are doing pinch tests OK?”
Nathan Brown: “No worries. I’ll tell him”
St Kilda: Damn, we are in a pickle …the back line is leaking like a sieve! Oh..phone call hello, yes, hello, St Kilda football club, John speaking, how can I help you?
Jake Carlisle: Hi…it’s Jake. Listen, I’m out…Mrs is expecting.
St Kilda: no worries Jake! Off ya go.. Don’t forget…family first always! Listen, if you catch up with Nathan down there…have one on us!
Jake Carlilse: Yeah…but I made my quota OK…
St Kilda: well, Jake …I don’t know about all the details…all I can tell you is that its family first. That is what St Kilda stands for. It ‘ain’t 1951. I ain’t giving with my grandma, are you?


Forgive me fellow Saints..I need to lighten it up a little.

Yes because 2020 was a very normal year.

[ace]

It has been interesting reading these comments. Some pretty good arguments either way.

I think the club did the right thing letting Membrey, Ross and Paddy head home for family reasons.

Family is the most important part of my life, so it is easy for me to assume it is for them too.

Although I do appreciate the argument that their decision affects the club, the supporters, sponsored etc..

Here is a thought experiment:

If a player requests leave for family time and is denied what would that mean for their future at the club?

How would you feel if such a personal request was denied?

In many work environments you would not request and be denied because you know where the boundaries are before asking.
It seems that the club has no boundaries.

[lewdogs]

Ok let's go back to 2020. We have just won a final, Carlisle's first ever finals win. His wife is about to give birth. Do people really think he WANTED to leave? Look at Paddy after the Dogs game, literally in tears because he can't play the next week. And people question Paddy's commitment in leaving for personal reasons this year. These guys had been away from family for the whole of 2020 to keep the season going and it was one hell of a season. Jake did what he had to do to support his family.

Now 2021, a new lockdown out of nowhere means Tim and Seb have to go home. For Seb, do you think he'd rather be hanging out for the week in Sydney with his mates then fly up to Cairns for a footy game, or at home in lockdown with twin babies and a toddler? Really have a think about that before questioning his commitment. He has made a hard choice and should be commended for it.

It's like people forget we are in a pandemic. Things are different, have you noticed? The players had to pack up and head to Sydney at the last minute, Melbourne was in lockdown, we don't know the situation with Seb's partner at home but looking after twin babies and a toddler on your own would be INSANE. She needed his support and I commend him for making the difficult choice to do that.

Caro knew exactly what she was doing making those comments, that she'd hook in the usuals and lo and behold she's news for the week. People bringing up Finnis and how the club is soft need to have a good hard look at themselves. Yes it is frustrating that we are not winning, but that's what all this is about. Sinking the boots into Seb, Tim, Jake and Paddy for supporting their families and their own mental health is just so low. I hope the club comes out on the front foot to support these guys.

[Moods]

Caro knew exactly what she was doing making those comments, that she'd hook in the usuals and lo and behold she's news for the week. People bringing up Finnis and how the club is soft need to have a good hard look at themselves. Yes it is frustrating that we are not winning, but that's what all this is about. Sinking the boots into Seb, Tim, Jake and Paddy for supporting their families and their own mental health is just so low. I hope the club comes out on the front foot to support these guys.

She sure did know what she was doing. The usuals such as yourself are out thumping their chests promoting mental health and progressiveness as if anyone who disagrees is a Neanderthal. Like their couldn’t possibly be an alternate view.

Having twins would be a nightmare. So pay a best friend to live in, a sister, a mother. It’s for 2 weeks. Your husband gets paid very handsomely to give you an exorbitant lifestyle. This is one of the downsides.

Tim can leave at a moments notice if his wife goes into labour. Gee whiz, these situations have happened before

[SaintJohno]

I might be wrong (good chance) but my understanding was that they couldn't go to Cairns because the had BEEN in Melbourne whereas the other players had remained in Sydney after the Sydney game. I think Annastacia took the choice off them entirely.

[lewdogs]

Caro knew exactly what she was doing making those comments, that she'd hook in the usuals and lo and behold she's news for the week. People bringing up Finnis and how the club is soft need to have a good hard look at themselves. Yes it is frustrating that we are not winning, but that's what all this is about. Sinking the boots into Seb, Tim, Jake and Paddy for supporting their families and their own mental health is just so low. I hope the club comes out on the front foot to support these guys.

She sure did know what she was doing. The usuals such as yourself are out thumping their chests promoting mental health and progressiveness as if anyone who disagrees is a Neanderthal. Like their couldn’t possibly be an alternate view.

Having twins would be a nightmare. So pay a best friend to live in, a sister, a mother. It’s for 2 weeks. Your husband gets paid very handsomely to give you an exorbitant lifestyle. This is one of the downsides.

Tim can leave at a moments notice if his wife goes into labour. Gee whiz, these situations have happened before

Absolute crap. Tim can leave at a moments notice if his wife goes into labour. Do you actually believe that?

[The_Dud]

Caro knew exactly what she was doing making those comments, that she'd hook in the usuals and lo and behold she's news for the week. People bringing up Finnis and how the club is soft need to have a good hard look at themselves. Yes it is frustrating that we are not winning, but that's what all this is about. Sinking the boots into Seb, Tim, Jake and Paddy for supporting their families and their own mental health is just so low. I hope the club comes out on the front foot to support these guys.

She sure did know what she was doing. The usuals such as yourself are out thumping their chests promoting mental health and progressiveness as if anyone who disagrees is a Neanderthal. Like their couldn’t possibly be an alternate view.

Having twins would be a nightmare. So pay a best friend to live in, a sister, a mother. It’s for 2 weeks. Your husband gets paid very handsomely to give you an exorbitant lifestyle. This is one of the downsides.

Tim can leave at a moments notice if his wife goes into labour. Gee whiz, these situations have happened before

So it's fine for a best friend / sister / mother (I notice you didn't say brother) to leave their work for 2 weeks at the drop of a hat for family reasons but not the child's actual father?

Here's something to consider, the way you choose to prioritise your family isn't the same way others will choose.

[bigcarl]

I guess it’s just a job. A profession.

But you would like to see some commitment and passion from these guys.

In their shoes, I’d play for sure, mindful of bringing home the bacon and providing for the family.

[Moods]

[quote=Moods post_id=<a href="tel:1909130">1909130</a> time=<a href="tel:1623800704">1623800704</a> user_id=18525]
[quote=lewdogs post_id=<a href="tel:1909125">1909125</a> time=<a href="tel:1623799130">1623799130</a> user_id=17997]


Caro knew exactly what she was doing making those comments, that she'd hook in the usuals and lo and behold she's news for the week. People bringing up Finnis and how the club is soft need to have a good hard look at themselves. Yes it is frustrating that we are not winning, but that's what all this is about. Sinking the boots into Seb, Tim, Jake and Paddy for supporting their families and their own mental health is just so low. I hope the club comes out on the front foot to support these guys.

She sure did know what she was doing. The usuals such as yourself are out thumping their chests promoting mental health and progressiveness as if anyone who disagrees is a Neanderthal. Like their couldn’t possibly be an alternate view.

Having twins would be a nightmare. So pay a best friend to live in, a sister, a mother. It’s for 2 weeks. Your husband gets paid very handsomely to give you an exorbitant lifestyle. This is one of the downsides.

Tim can leave at a moments notice if his wife goes into labour. Gee whiz, these situations have happened before
[/quote]

So it's fine for a best friend / sister / mother (I notice you didn't say brother) to leave their work for 2 weeks at the drop of a hat for family reasons but not the child's actual father?

Here's something to consider, the way you choose to prioritise your family isn't the same way others will choose.
[/quote]

Caro knew exactly what she was doing making those comments, that she'd hook in the usuals and lo and behold she's news for the week. People bringing up Finnis and how the club is soft need to have a good hard look at themselves. Yes it is frustrating that we are not winning, but that's what all this is about. Sinking the boots into Seb, Tim, Jake and Paddy for supporting their families and their own mental health is just so low. I hope the club comes out on the front foot to support these guys.

She sure did know what she was doing. The usuals such as yourself are out thumping their chests promoting mental health and progressiveness as if anyone who disagrees is a Neanderthal. Like their couldn’t possibly be an alternate view.

Having twins would be a nightmare. So pay a best friend to live in, a sister, a mother. It’s for 2 weeks. Your husband gets paid very handsomely to give you an exorbitant lifestyle. This is one of the downsides.

Tim can leave at a moments notice if his wife goes into labour. Gee whiz, these situations have happened before

So it's fine for a best friend / sister / mother (I notice you didn't say brother) to leave their work for 2 weeks at the drop of a hat for family reasons but not the child's actual father?

Here's something to consider, the way you choose to prioritise your family isn't the same way others will choose.

Mate, take a breath, calm down and consider this. His partner is struggling with the kids. It’s becoming more and more apparent that this was the situation. Anyone who’s had young kids understands. Also apparent from listening to Finnis is that there definitely was people upset that he chose to leave. Also consider that he’s paid $750k a year to do a job. I am sensible enough to understand that you and I may well be able to drop everything and give the missus a chop out ( I actually was able to take 4-5 weeks off for each of my kids) but other people don’t get that luxury. Seb , in my view, as a leader at our club should have been able to organise some temporary assistance. It appears my view is shared by several leaders at the club but they have chosen ( quite reasonably) to present a united approach. Finnis basically said as much.

[older saint]

Family more important than anything else, end of discussion.

Ah yes, the old Ross Lyon mantra. Think it's time for us to change our motto. How about "Strength through Mediocrity"?

We dont know the circumstances or the state of his wife. Wilson grabbing headlines and if true that people disappointed then says more about them - its football not life - and if that reflects mediocrity then that's a hell of a lot better than the consequences of not letting them go . We lost a game of football which realistically only will determine if we have pick 6 or pick 8 in the draft.

[magnifisaint]

I honestly think Seb Ross has cooked his career at the Saints. I reckon he'll be traded.

[terry smith rules]

Work should be a bit of Priority when you’re on half a million for 22 games!

Plenty of FIFO husbands have kids and have to go to work away from home for periods

And they have no choice, if they want to get paid!

Happy for them to take unpaid leave for the week. But it’d be a % of their wage forfeited
Same would have applied to Paddy Ryder

You can’t expect to get paid if your not working and earning that money!

It turns out there are confirmed reports of people at the club not being happy with Sebs decision.

Club is not a happy place at the moment.

Not only that
If the report was wrong the club would have been making an announcement denying it loud and clear TODAY
The crickets are deafening

Exactly

[Banger9798]

Family more important than anything else, end of discussion.

Ah yes, the old Ross Lyon mantra. Think it's time for us to change our motto. How about "Strength through Mediocrity"?

We dont know the circumstances or the state of his wife. Wilson grabbing headlines and if true that people disappointed then says more about them - its football not life - and if that reflects mediocrity then that's a hell of a lot better than the consequences of not letting them go . We lost a game of football which realistically only will determine if we have pick 6 or pick 8 in the draft.

Well in that case shall we all pack it in ?
Better things to do with my money time and energy than spend it on a team like StKilda.
We've all got families too and doubtful many are on $400k a year, and none of us are being paid by SKFC...except possibly Tony74.

Welcome to StKilda, if it gets too tough, just take a few weeks off, or just pop yourself in the injured (TBC) Column, we don't really expect you to be a winner anyway.
Enjoy your time, put your feet up, if we're lucky we might even sail into a final series...but don't stress yourself, we probably won't.

Sorry Older Sainter, I actually do respect your views, but I am just over our acceptance of mediocrity.

It may well be a " boy that cried wolf" scenario, we don't know the circumstances of why they went home, but given the year we've had it just adds to a picture of a club that lacks rigour and self belief.

[The Fireman]

i think a few of the players couldn't care less about the club or the losses.
They are mostly journeymen with no real ties....Butler for eg. Do you think he really cares ??

Playing for the $ not the Jumper but maybe thats the way it's going. But more damning is when you consider they are not concerned with self pride and winning.

I am only guessing at this but that's the feeling I get.

[terry smith rules]

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Unbelievable , are you writing this from a time machine in 1955

Your words seem to imply that to play football you need to be a “man” of certain qualities and should not display certain other qualities

Are you suggesting that to show empathy precludes you from been courageous or disciplined etc, because if so I would love to introduce to any number of men or women who display all virtues named above including empathy.

Your comment suggesting that empathy validates emotional fluctuations is the type of attitude that women have always faced . The attitude in the workplace that a strong and passionate woman is overly emotional yet a strong man and passionate is masculinity personified.

[magnifisaint]

i think a few of the players couldn't care less about the club or the losses.
They are mostly journeymen with no real ties....Butler for eg. Do you think he really cares ??

Playing for the $ not the Jumper but maybe thats the way it's going. But more damning is when you consider they are not concerned with self pride and winning.

I am only guessing at this but that's the feeling I get.

I'm sure he cares about the environment. Everyone cares about the job they do. It's called pride and you should do it to the best of your ability. Who rocks up to work and couldn't be f***ed how they did their job? If you think he doesn't care you have no idea.

[Banger9798]

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Unbelievable , are you writing this from a time machine in 1955

Your words seem to imply that to play football you need to be a “man” of certain qualities and should not display certain other qualities

Are you suggesting that to show empathy precludes you from been courageous or disciplined etc, because if so I would love to introduce to any number of men or women who display all virtues named above including empathy.

Your comment suggesting that empathy validates emotional fluctuations is the type of attitude that women have always faced . The attitude in the workplace that a strong and passionate woman is overly emotional yet a strong man and passionate is masculinity personified.

I think he is suggesting we have over steered in that direction.

[terry smith rules]

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Unbelievable , are you writing this from a time machine in 1955

Your words seem to imply that to play football you need to be a “man” of certain qualities and should not display certain other qualities

Are you suggesting that to show empathy precludes you from been courageous or disciplined etc, because if so I would love to introduce to any number of men or women who display all virtues named above including empathy.

Your comment suggesting that empathy validates emotional fluctuations is the type of attitude that women have always faced . The attitude in the workplace that a strong and passionate woman is overly emotional yet a strong man and passionate is masculinity personified.

I think he is suggesting we have over steered in that direction.

Exactly that is why I said he is posting from 1955 (where this attitude belongs)

[farquhar]

Who should be sacked for leaking to Caroline Wilson in the first instance?

What a pathetic management St Kilda has. Someone has clearly leaked this to Caroline Wilson. She is then just doing her job by publicising the matter.

Then the Garry Lyon comments are an easy thread to follow as Tim Watson is Seb Ross' uncle. Tim is going to keep an arm's length distance from this as he has long running history with Wilson but clearly fed the family narrative to Lyon.

So will Seb Ross stay? Would be doubtful.

Are the Saints going to be more professional in the future? Would be doubtful as well.

[The Fireman]

i think a few of the players couldn't care less about the club or the losses.
They are mostly journeymen with no real ties....Butler for eg. Do you think he really cares ??

Playing for the $ not the Jumper but maybe thats the way it's going. But more damning is when you consider they are not concerned with self pride and winning.

I am only guessing at this but that's the feeling I get.

I'm sure he cares about the environment. Everyone cares about the job they do. It's called pride and you should do it to the best of your ability. Who rocks up to work and couldn't be f***ed how they did their job? If you think he doesn't care you have no idea.

You're right , I have no idea...just a feeling I have.
So you are saying every single person cares and has pride in their jobs ? You live in the perfect world mate...wish I could join you but reality prevents.

[shanegrambeau]

To answer your question no you can't have a mature conversation.
Just like I can't say why without getting a ban for politics.

I think we sort of managed to get somewhere. It is highly risky, touch and go, post to post, but we have acknowledged the grey, the subjectivity involved.

I am surprised nobody took up the prompt to look at Melbourne, and the way they managed the McDonald EBS (Expecting Baby Situation). They said he is going to Sydney. Of course it is all case-by-case and we all different, however some will forget the nuances and jump for their rifles for doctrine and demonstration purposes..

I thank all the posters who contributed to this, including you ace, because yes, we are of course drifting into mined waters if you speak anything 'off message'.

Feel sorry for Ratts too.

And again, I am flummoxed as to why people don't even question how Brown was allowed to slip his contract obligations mid-season last year. Mid-contract, and of course, when Carlisle went we needed him. Instead of asking questions about our management we said, 'Good on ya big fella, great service'. COVID will be mentioned of course...OK...so its just not an excuse to throw the book away. Again, I point to Melbourne as being strong with McDonald.

But it is not the players' fault that they have this mindset...its a cultural thing the Players Association , the managers etc., senior players like Jack Riewoldt is tough to listen to nowadays.

Anyway, great work to even have some level of dialogue instead of a witch burning fest.

The Brown situation seems pretty simple to me.

He was faced with the prospect of spending months away from his young family in the middle of a pandemic to be a backup and not play football, in the last year of his career.

A no brainer from his end.

Dud,

Respectfully, it is fgar from a no brainer for me.

He was contracted precisely for this scenario....in his last year of football, yes, last year - so what? its a one year contract! he signed it. Back-up! He was a back-up!

I don't begrudge him personally, and I would wanna get out of there too...

All this nonsense about 'warrior' and 'fine servant' etc., makes no sense in a professional environment.

Would you let your superannuation be managed by a guy who quits after he is contracted to perform something.

Browns loss infuriates me... and yet, can you believe i like him and I respect him, and had that hole in the gate been open for me I would jump through it and escape ion a flash!

Brown's loss was tragic. he could have covered for Carlisle. Those in the organization that let him slip, that's OK, you lose some, win some, but you don't win a flag and you don't win games of footy.

Just bare that in mind when we hang Ratten in the gallows next year.

And of course, Ratten would be fully behind Brown leaving...I have no doubt he doesn't mind that he left, but that is not the argument.

And one more time....yes, family is more important than footy! Of course it is...for heaven's sake.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Unbelievable , are you writing this from a time machine in 1955

Your words seem to imply that to play football you need to be a “man” of certain qualities and should not display certain other qualities

Are you suggesting that to show empathy precludes you from been courageous or disciplined etc, because if so I would love to introduce to any number of men or women who display all virtues named above including empathy.

Your comment suggesting that empathy validates emotional fluctuations is the type of attitude that women have always faced . The attitude in the workplace that a strong and passionate woman is overly emotional yet a strong man and passionate is masculinity personified.

I think he is suggesting we have over steered in that direction.

I'm talking about a team that has sychronised breathing before games (at ever quarter break, possibly). Brad Johnson for one ssaid he'd be embarrassed doing that.

They meditate on the ground pre-match.

They have a "hugging room" just off the change rooms.

They allowed the players to control their own fitness programmes over the off-season.

They grant "compassionate leave" at the drop of a hat.

They have Pride Round, Depression Round and a CEO who wanted gender neutral toilets at Marvel.

They're also the least successful side in AFL/VFL history, ten million in debt and facing possible extinction.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

I just don't think Ross Lyon or GT would have stood for this malarkey.

[older saint]

Family more important than anything else, end of discussion.

Ah yes, the old Ross Lyon mantra. Think it's time for us to change our motto. How about "Strength through Mediocrity"?

We dont know the circumstances or the state of his wife. Wilson grabbing headlines and if true that people disappointed then says more about them - its football not life - and if that reflects mediocrity then that's a hell of a lot better than the consequences of not letting them go . We lost a game of football which realistically only will determine if we have pick 6 or pick 8 in the draft.

Well in that case shall we all pack it in ?
Better things to do with my money time and energy than spend it on a team like StKilda.
We've all got families too and doubtful many are on $400k a year, and none of us are being paid by SKFC...except possibly Tony74.

Welcome to StKilda, if it gets too tough, just take a few weeks off, or just pop yourself in the injured (TBC) Column, we don't really expect you to be a winner anyway.
Enjoy your time, put your feet up, if we're lucky we might even sail into a final series...but don't stress yourself, we probably won't.

Sorry Older Sainter, I actually do respect your views, but I am just over our acceptance of mediocrity.

It may well be a " boy that cried wolf" scenario, we don't know the circumstances of why they went home, but given the year we've had it just adds to a picture of a club that lacks rigour and self belief.

I hear your frustration and we all don't have to agree ( and some even do this without abuse as we have shown here ). i think your last line "we dont know the circumstances" is where i am willing to provide the benefit of the doubt to the individuals, especially based on their track records and service to the club so far, others i may have raised eyebrows.

I actually think some at the top are trying to re set the culture of STKFC to one of a caring and considerate place in an attempt to become a "club of choice", especially to the younger generation who have different ideas to those of 15-20 years ago. It is possible to have this and still have a cut throat will to win on the field - ( the modern verison of Hawthorn the family club of the 80s). We can't compete financially so IF , and it is a huge IF, this is the case it may be a smart play.
What needs to follow however is more accountability on the field and those responsible for what is put on the field. That is the bit which for the past 10 years has not been anywhere near good enough.

[CQ SAINT]

Footy is still a supremely masculine game that requires intense discipline, courage, endurance, one-sightedness and a bit of killer instinct.

This sits very uneasily with the empathy blanket that's been thrown over the Saints.

The empathy validates emotional fluctuations and leads to an unstable, volatile mentality.

Get rid of the hippies and psychologists and bring in some men.

Unbelievable , are you writing this from a time machine in 1955

Your words seem to imply that to play football you need to be a “man” of certain qualities and should not display certain other qualities

Are you suggesting that to show empathy precludes you from been courageous or disciplined etc, because if so I would love to introduce to any number of men or women who display all virtues named above including empathy.

Your comment suggesting that empathy validates emotional fluctuations is the type of attitude that women have always faced . The attitude in the workplace that a strong and passionate woman is overly emotional yet a strong man and passionate is masculinity personified.

I think he is suggesting we have over steered in that direction.

I'm talking about a team that has sychronised breathing before games (at ever quarter break, possibly). Brad Johnson for one ssaid he'd be embarrassed doing that.

They meditate on the ground pre-match.

They have a "hugging room" just off the change rooms.

They allowed the players to control their own fitness programmes over the off-season.

They grant "compassionate leave" at the drop of a hat.

They have Pride Round, Depression Round and a CEO who wanted gender neutral toilets at Marvel.

They're also the least successful side in AFL/VFL history, ten million in debt and facing possible extinction.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

I just don't think Ross Lyon or GT would have stood for this malarkey.

It seems that where you are coming from is the history of the club and somehow relating it 2 years of player group practice, in which last year, despite all the set backs, the team finished in the 8 won a final and broke a 9 year success drought.
You seem a little intimidated by men who are prepared to be vulnerable and totally discounting the Covid effect, and the fact that several key players have missed huge chunks of last year and also this year.
I'm not sure what you are on about to be honest.