The only thing this club …

[shanegrambeau]

Looks to me like Dunstan's stats mirror Seb Ross's.

I assume we focus on kicking rather than handballing when he think of disposal skills, which is understandable but do we notice those little handballs and spins in congested areas? Does Dunny excel with these? I haven't noticed, have you? Ross looks like a nice kick who kicks to the wrong places, like his GPS is broken. Dunny looks like it didn't go well off the boot sometimes? Is that it? Like Geary, Gilbert and a whole lot of them.

[Crossy66]

Yep, the killer kick from Dunstan is either the sideways grubber going inside 50 or the overshoot. The problem is that he takes an advantageous situation (no pressure, time and space to deliver, and his team mates running forward of the ball in good position and in the clear) where a decent kick would set up a goal scoring opportunity. Instead, the horrible, inexplicable kick goes to the opposition either directly or strongly to their advantage resulting in a goal for the other team. His handballing is equally sloppy at times, and he fumbles below his knew too often for an AFL midfielder.

I admire his grunt and his effort, but his disposal is something that demoralises his team mates, just like Max King's goal kicking does. When the team works so hard to gain advantage and one of those killer kicks occur, it's horribly deflating

A few facts for you comparing player "A" against Luke Dunstan using 2021 Season averages (i.e.current form).

Player A shown first- Turnovers 6.8 LD 6.3, Disposal Eff A = 61.2% LD 68.7%, Clangers A= 5.6 LD 4.7, Kicking Eff A = 49.5 LD 62.8, Effective Kicks A = 8.4 LD 9

So LD is well ahead of player A in every one of these measurable categories.
Just a couple more
Marks - Player A = 4.8 , LD = 5, Tackles Player A = 4 LD =7.


Player A by the way is none other than the player the pundits rate as currently best in the game - Christian Petracca.
Interesting that whilst Petracca has more possessions P.G, he only has +2 more effective disposals PG and he is supposedly a super star
I guarantee if Bytel was pushing out these numbers he would be touted a Brownlow favorite

Isn’t this an argument as to how silly the stats are?
a) who would you rather have
b) whose disposal do you trust more

Depends on the discussion.
If its that Dunny's disposal is so bad, he is not AFL standard, then the facts say otherwise. It seems his mistakes are magnified by a small group of "supporters" armed with pitchforks.
If the discussion is who would you rather or who is the better player, then other factors come into play, like running power, endurance, contested etc.
To me, it should be viewed from a whole of list perspective. Petracca just signed for $6mil, we dont pay Luke that. But our list does need someone to come in for a Steele or Crouch etc. when they inevitably have an injury

It seems to me that the argument your making is that this select stat suggests that the quality of disposal between the 2 comparable

It’s CLEARLY not

I think this line of discussion is the perfect embodiment of the phrase - numbers lie, and people that lie use numbers to do it

Not at all, it's not A selective stat, it's every stat used to measure disposal.
Not saying dunny is a better player, not saying I want him over petracca, really not commenting on petracca at all , other than to highlight that every disposal metric has Dunny out ahead of the best player in the comp ATM.
My real point is that anyone that thinks Dunny's disposal is some sort of outlier at the saints is deluded, so why single him out?

It’s not an outlier
It just hasn’t been very good for a very very long time. And given that he’s still prone to just some awful decision making that sees him bomb a ball forward without thinking straight to an opposition player... many feel he’s unlikely to change that aspect of his game

Add to that that his ceiling isn’t as high as say Hill and he not nearly as consistent as say a Ross... there are just better prospects out there to sink more development into

Right now he’s better then Byrnes and Bytel. Heck he’s been better then Coffield the last 2 weeks. I’d rather persevere with all three ahead of him

So that's an opinion, and that's ok, it might even be right. But facts are the focus on his disposal at the exclusion of others is unwarranted.
On current form, he has played 2 very good games including one BOG after banging down the door at Sandy. Maybe he has turned the corner maybe not. Hope Bytel actually does push him and others out. But he has to do the work and earn it, not have it gifted. This covid rubbish has really impacted on his development.

[skeptic]

Yep, the killer kick from Dunstan is either the sideways grubber going inside 50 or the overshoot. The problem is that he takes an advantageous situation (no pressure, time and space to deliver, and his team mates running forward of the ball in good position and in the clear) where a decent kick would set up a goal scoring opportunity. Instead, the horrible, inexplicable kick goes to the opposition either directly or strongly to their advantage resulting in a goal for the other team. His handballing is equally sloppy at times, and he fumbles below his knew too often for an AFL midfielder.

I admire his grunt and his effort, but his disposal is something that demoralises his team mates, just like Max King's goal kicking does. When the team works so hard to gain advantage and one of those killer kicks occur, it's horribly deflating

A few facts for you comparing player "A" against Luke Dunstan using 2021 Season averages (i.e.current form).

Player A shown first- Turnovers 6.8 LD 6.3, Disposal Eff A = 61.2% LD 68.7%, Clangers A= 5.6 LD 4.7, Kicking Eff A = 49.5 LD 62.8, Effective Kicks A = 8.4 LD 9

So LD is well ahead of player A in every one of these measurable categories.
Just a couple more
Marks - Player A = 4.8 , LD = 5, Tackles Player A = 4 LD =7.


Player A by the way is none other than the player the pundits rate as currently best in the game - Christian Petracca.
Interesting that whilst Petracca has more possessions P.G, he only has +2 more effective disposals PG and he is supposedly a super star
I guarantee if Bytel was pushing out these numbers he would be touted a Brownlow favorite

Isn’t this an argument as to how silly the stats are?
a) who would you rather have
b) whose disposal do you trust more

Depends on the discussion.
If its that Dunny's disposal is so bad, he is not AFL standard, then the facts say otherwise. It seems his mistakes are magnified by a small group of "supporters" armed with pitchforks.
If the discussion is who would you rather or who is the better player, then other factors come into play, like running power, endurance, contested etc.
To me, it should be viewed from a whole of list perspective. Petracca just signed for $6mil, we dont pay Luke that. But our list does need someone to come in for a Steele or Crouch etc. when they inevitably have an injury

It seems to me that the argument your making is that this select stat suggests that the quality of disposal between the 2 comparable

It’s CLEARLY not

I think this line of discussion is the perfect embodiment of the phrase - numbers lie, and people that lie use numbers to do it

Not at all, it's not A selective stat, it's every stat used to measure disposal.
Not saying dunny is a better player, not saying I want him over petracca, really not commenting on petracca at all , other than to highlight that every disposal metric has Dunny out ahead of the best player in the comp ATM.
My real point is that anyone that thinks Dunny's disposal is some sort of outlier at the saints is deluded, so why single him out?

It’s not an outlier
It just hasn’t been very good for a very very long time. And given that he’s still prone to just some awful decision making that sees him bomb a ball forward without thinking straight to an opposition player... many feel he’s unlikely to change that aspect of his game

Add to that that his ceiling isn’t as high as say Hill and he not nearly as consistent as say a Ross... there are just better prospects out there to sink more development into

Right now he’s better then Byrnes and Bytel. Heck he’s been better then Coffield the last 2 weeks. I’d rather persevere with all three ahead of him

So that's an opinion, and that's ok, it might even be right. But facts are the focus on his disposal at the exclusion of others is unwarranted.
On current form, he has played 2 very good games including one BOG after banging down the door at Sandy. Maybe he has turned the corner maybe not. Hope Bytel actually does push him and others out. But he has to do the work and earn it, not have it gifted. This covid rubbish has really impacted on his development.

Agreed.

I certainly agree he’s earned his current opportunity and actually think he’s up his performance as of late.

Come what I hope will be a clean out at years end, IMO Dunstan should survive but on current form he’s a depth player. Ready to come in and compete.
I had completely given up on him but I feel he’s got a bit better and have some hope for him yet

[The Barometer]

Dunstan has his limitations, we know that

Both skill and fitness

He’s a C Grader with the ability to play the odd very good game

Smashes it at VFL level as an inside mid. Just doesn’t have the running power or foot skills at league level. Very good depth player.

Saintmatt - not sure if you’ve ever kicked a ball in anger, or if you’ve played 100 league games like Dunstan or are remotely as tough as him??? Doubt it… So your opinion of him doesn’t really count for much
And to get personally abusive is typical of that of a keyboard warrior.

Lonie - who has kicked 4 in an AFL game 3 times also has limitations that make him also C Grade. He also stars in the VFL and is handy depth.

Bytel - for all his hype on here, has struggled this season and needs to develop his game

Lol. So on a fan forum where fans come to discuss, vent, question it is your opinion is that someone else’s opinion does not count for much. Does your opinion count more than saintmatts? Why? Can I form an opinion that your opinion of saintmatts opinion doesn’t count for much? What credentials does one need to have an opinion on an anonymous fan forum?

I agree with saintmatts opinion play players with potential like bytel, play long who has talent, why persist with Dunstan/Lonnie who have had ample opportunity but have not shown they are the future.