Is Gary Lyons Job to Bash King??

[happy feet]

Yes, happy feet

Plenty of other things to do on Sunday in lockdown

Um .. it’s not just during lock down.

So you’re now policing who and when people ought to be on SS? Like a life coach?

No, not at all. You can make those decisions yourself. But some people are on here all the time commenting on everything. It’s easy to notice.

[Enrico_Misso]

Some talk of a back injury? If so, it would explain his lacklustre efforts when the ball hits the ground. Looks a shadow of his early season self. Clearly needs a rest. Will do him good. Everyone wants him to be Tony Lockett or Dermot Brereton. Max is a stick insect. There's no bashing and crashing when you're built like that. Needs time and a few more kilograms. We want him to be a 12 Year player. Let's not destroy him at 20

That's what GT did to Kosi all those years ago when he played him down at Geelong with an injured back that he then aggravated further in the game and then took years, if ever, to recover from.

[Teflon]

Some talk of a back injury? If so, it would explain his lacklustre efforts when the ball hits the ground. Looks a shadow of his early season self. Clearly needs a rest. Will do him good. Everyone wants him to be Tony Lockett or Dermot Brereton. Max is a stick insect. There's no bashing and crashing when you're built like that. Needs time and a few more kilograms. We want him to be a 12 Year player. Let's not destroy him at 20

Great post - can’t be assed arguing with those who suggest he’s not Wayne Carey then IGNORE the support Naughton has round both other forwards and a superb midfield. To compare is just dumb.

King needs to be developed properly I’m nervous our club has the ability to do that but if we do he’s a 10 year proposal....I couldn’t give a toss he’s not smashing packs year 2 ...not sure he’ll ever be that type of forward but if we use him smart he’ll be a weapon.

It’s not about being sensitive to criticism of the kid it’s about being sensible and not just following some dumb commentators playing to the crowd with boring cliches ..,

[B.M]

King needs to get serious about his training, he is a stick insect - half the problem

And yes we do want him to be a generational forward, otherwise if he’s not, we can’t build a side around him

King is 21 yeah?

At 22 Stewart Loewe won a B&F and played for Victoria
At 21 Tony Lockett won a B&F and a Coleman
At 20 Nick Reiwoldt won a B&F and Rising star
At 20 Barry Hall kicked 3 at CHF in a GF
At 19 Justin Koschitzke was a rising star

Max has talent in spades, but lacks the inner belief that made these guys giants of the game!

I reckon McCartin had more self confidence and presented more, and he was no fitter than me!

[Teflon]

King needs to get serious about his training, he is a stick insect - half the problem

And yes we do want him to be a generational forward, otherwise if he’s not, we can’t build a side around him

King is 21 yeah?

At 22 Stewart Loewe won a B&F and played for Victoria
At 21 Tony Lockett won a B&F and a Coleman
At 20 Nick Reiwoldt won a B&F and Rising star
At 20 Barry Hall kicked 3 at CHF in a GF
At 19 Justin Koschitzke was a rising star

Max has talent in spades, but lacks the inner belief that made these guys giants of the game!

I reckon McCartin had more self confidence and presented more, and he was no fitter than me!

Max has played 29 games in a side that is best described as schizophrenic....on Sat he had eff all support around him ...comparing him to players and teams seasons ago is not only pointless but lazy.
Anyway Max knows he needs to work on his craft the club know that but telling him he’s not Wayne Carey does f’all to help that
When Max tore a strong Cats defensive unit apart a few weeks back no one questioned his work effort
He’s playing injured on weekend but still not good enough cause in his second year he ain’t the saviour?
Just typical St Kilda mentality....I don’t want another saviour I want a good team that has a chance at a flag ffs

[Scollop]

Maybe if Gary (sic) knew about the back injury he wouldn't have been on his case.

I know I definitely wouldn't have said f*** him, and that he needs to man up

Is it St Kilda Footy clubs' Job to look after him for the long term? ..Or...

Is it St Kilda Footy clubs Job to Bash King?

[maverick]

King needs to get serious about his training, he is a stick insect - half the problem

And yes we do want him to be a generational forward, otherwise if he’s not, we can’t build a side around him

King is 21 yeah?

At 22 Stewart Loewe won a B&F and played for Victoria
At 21 Tony Lockett won a B&F and a Coleman
At 20 Nick Reiwoldt won a B&F and Rising star
At 20 Barry Hall kicked 3 at CHF in a GF
At 19 Justin Koschitzke was a rising star

Max has talent in spades, but lacks the inner belief that made these guys giants of the game!

I reckon McCartin had more self confidence and presented more, and he was no fitter than me!

You love quoting this.
Max is 20
At 21 pluggers had played 93 games, max 29
Same for stewie
Nick was special early as was kosi, kosi got found out...
Barry had stewie cuz and heater alongside him in 97

Max has f*** all next to him
Yes he is not going well, 3 weeks ago he took the game apart, but kicked crap, against Geelong no slouches
Give him something tall up forward to assist him ffs, not battle and members tall, Howard tall...
Bruce looks a bad move I give you that...

[Moods]

I’ll say it again, the best key forwards are peacocks

It’s more an attitudinal thing, which says - I’m the man and I’m better than you!!

From early ages, the best key forwards have swagger
Brereton, Carey, Brown, Reiwoldt, Fevola, Franklin, Walker the list goes on...

All great key forwards think they own the forward 50

Max doubts himself, it’s very obvious he lacks confidence and his hunched shoulders, sunken chest and lack of strength is concerning

The other thing
He lopes around at half pace constantly, forward shouldn’t do that

It’s 100% full pace repeat efforts

Thanks Dermott - it’s all weights and being “tough” like Wayne up forward......seriously 1970s thinking ...
Forget the fact he had **** all help on the day????
What’s the help Naughton gets weekly??? How’s the ball delivered to Naughtin weekly....???? Has Ben King had a full 12 months in the system longer??????
Of course Max has work to do but stop with the cliched drivel around”peacocks” and being tough and face facts King ain’t Lockett.....ffs Nick Riewoldt was no enforcer!! Different style of player and anyone with half a brain can see that
We need King to learn where to run and when......we need balls kicked in the forward 50 not to be kicked along the ground or bombed......we need a forward game plan style that allows King to lead up and jump into space .....he’s 200cms they ain’t going to stop that..right now the way we move the ball into forward 50is comical.
But it’s all because Max isn’t Swarzenegger......funny stuff.

f*** all help all day? He plays as one of 3 key fwds. He should be helping the other key fwds. No one is expecting him to mark everything in sight, but if you listened to the criticism you would have picked up that he needs to get to more contests, and make a contest. Half hearted efforts in the air and generally even worse when the ball hits the ground.

Naughton crashes packs at will. He jumps at the ball with confidence. Has nothing to do with the delivery, it's about the way he presents. He hits packs hard. Yeah he's in a better team. That's a cop out though. Max needs to play to his strengths. I can barely remember a time when he's charged out on a lead. The ball hits his hands in a pack and he looks like he has perfect position and then he drops it. The 'kid' has just signed a giant sized contract. If these 'kids' want the huge money they need to start performing.

Roo may well have been no Carey or Brown but he was way tougher than most have ever given him credit.

As a club we need to stop pissing in his pocket and giving him cringeworthy nicknames like 'Winx' and let him prove himself.

So, I partly agree with you. Yes we need to play to Max's strengths and our fwd 50 craft certainly needs improvement. BUT Max needs to help himself as well. What B.M. has said may well be full of of 1980's clichés but there's more than a ring of truth to them. He simply has to show more mongrel. Very few KP forwards get away with being good blokes. Roo was one, but he ran like the wind to get away from them, and he had a burning competitiveness like no player I've ever seen. King signs a big boys contract he needs to start presenting and playing like a big boy.

[Scollop]

He plays as one of 3 key fwds. He should be helping the other key fwds. No one is expecting him to mark everything in sight, but if you listened to the criticism you would have picked up that he needs to get to more contests, and make a contest. Half hearted efforts in the air and generally even worse when the ball hits the ground.

As a club we need to stop pissing in his pocket and giving him cringeworthy nicknames like 'Winx' and let him prove himself.

Yes we need to play to Max's strengths and our fwd 50 craft certainly needs improvement. BUT Max needs to help himself as well.

... King signs a big boys contract he needs to start presenting and playing like a big boy.

The frustrating thing for us Saints fans, as far as a young player is concerned, is that the club needs to support him and help develop him and that's not what was happening

His body language pointed to a very frustrated player during that Geelong game. He reaches out for help 20 minutes after the end of that match and what does the club do in the days following?

........They knock back his request for Matthew Lloyd to do some set shot kicking practice with him


Instead...

Ratts and the club think that giving him 1 vote in the coaches association award is going to help motivate him and help him kick straight

I think maybe after this most recent match Ratts has finally conceded.

...Ratts announced that Max has a back injury and was playing in the Swans games under duress. I think that's the club trying to tell everyone to just 'back off' the young man for now.

Hopefully they give him a spell

[cwrcyn]

King had a knee reconstruction at 18.Then he had a syndesmosis injury in his foot at 19. Basically missed two seasons. To compare him to Aaron Naughton is ridiculous. Different body type, different lead up to playing his first game. It staggers me how people on this site just turn on a youngster because he isn't a superstar, pack-crashing beast who's destroying the opposition each week in his 29th game of football. It took Josh Kennedy of West Coast three full seasons of AFL football to start showing something substantial.

[B.M]

Alright

We’ll compare him to Georgiadis, Thilthorpe, Logan, Koschitzke

And yes, King is 21 in 4 weeks

[cwrcyn]

We've had a history of players who've taken a while to get going and have then had really good careers

Leigh Montagna
Jason Blake
Lenny Hayes
Steven Baker
Jack Steven
Tom Lynch, who we dumped because he wasn't showing enough by the end of his second year
Shane Wakelin, another we inexplicably lost patience with

[B.M]

Are you sure about all of those players??

[freely]

My guess is that giving king good advice at the moment would be telling someone who's clinically depressed to pull themselves together. He's mentally farked - I agree with scollop he badly needs a spell.

[saynta]

Saints hit back at media reporting and that turd Gary Lyon.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 939b55ecda

[Banger9798]

Saints hit back at media reporting and that turd Gary Lyon.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 939b55ecda

What does it say Saynta? Paywall

[B.M]

It’d just be the club defending him and putting forward excuses

[mcadam05]

I have no problem with a player getting criticize for not being in the right position etc etc , But the problem on Saturday was Lyon never let up and too be frank made the game unwatchble for me the club should tell him too f*** off and we dont need him "promonting" the Frawley centre

[stevie]

Irrelevant to the conversation but Plugger also won the Brownlow aged 21

[saynta]

It’d just be the club defending him and putting forward excuses

Yes Leffers was defending him, because the arseholes comments were way over the top and outrageous enough for the club to respond.

[saynta]

Irrelevant to the conversation but Plugger also won the Brownlow aged 21

And yet there are those fuckwits who say that Plugger's best football was played in sin city.

[sunsaint]

cant remember anyone ever saying that
But he will always be remembered for playing & kicking 6 in a Swans losing GF game
and breaking the goal kicking record in swans colours

and certainly given the animosity between the Lockett & the Swans in prior years
putting any sort of positive spin on his time there went some way in mending a very broken bridge between the two parties

[saynta]

cant remember anyone ever saying that
But he will always be remembered for playing & kicking 6 in a Swans losing GF game
and breaking the goal kicking record in swans colours

and certainly given the animosity between the Lockett & the Swans in prior years
putting any sort of positive spin on his time there went some way in mending a very broken bridge between the two parties

And broke my heart in the process.

Barrassi coveted Plugger after he single- handedly beat them at the SCG.

A sin in my eyes. Barrassi, not Plugger, although I was hoping in that game that Plugger didn't miss that white headed flog who used to sit behind the goals.

I still pray that all Barrassi's chickens turn into camels,come home to roost and kick his s*** house down.

[B.M]

Pluggers best football was played in the first half of 89 and 91

[Teflon]

Saints hit back at media reporting and that turd Gary Lyon.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 939b55ecda

What does it say Saynta? Paywall

Can anyone post this be good to read?
Once again NO ONE says King is beyond criticism...ffs just don’t go on like a broken record all day long..
and for muppets on here demanding he morph into Naughton, grown guns overnight and smash packs get a **** clue the “kid” has played 29 games and already looks like he’s got the weight of the world on his shoulders